A minimally moderated versionof this newsgroup

[Roy McCammon]

John Fortier wrote:

They seem to think that behaviour which would get them banned from any
decent pub or bar is completely acceptable in a newsgroup. The question is;
why should it be?

Because in a real bar people including non-participating bystanders
would get real injuries. That doesn't happen here.

 

[Baphomet]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0fb5pvcpi3ojp4ls55iijnvpfs637ifohf@4ax.com...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:06:41 -0700, "Baphomet"
fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net> wrote:


Steve -

You just proved John Fortier's point of the desirability of a "minimally
moderated newgroup", however crudely, ineloquently and childishly.

---
On the contrary, I believe he's shown that Fortier's avowed use of
censorship would have kept him (Steve) from responding with heart-felt
emotion to the idiocy of Fortier's proposal, had Fortier said something
stupid (which he seems to be incapable of avoiding) and been the
moderator here.

--
John Fields

Heart felt emotion? I didn't realize this was the touchy feely newsgroup. My
mistake for thinking that techies were hard nosed realists ;-)

 

[John Fortier]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:npa3pvkujd1eispoe2i6co4j41a1e8uda7@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:47:14 GMT, "John Fortier"
jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:


John,

As with any forum, if you don't agree with the miniimal controls I am
proposing, you don't have to take part. This would be a pity, since,
when
you are not involved in a clash of personalities, your advice within the
group is usually relevant and good, and would be a valuable contribution
to
the purposes of the group, which is to help beginners in the field of
electronics.

---
Thanks very much, but I will probably just stay here. I'm comfortable
here, there are plenty of questions to answer, and plenty of assholes to
slam without the intervention of some self-appointed "peacekeeper" to
cramp my style.
---

As to whether the thread is of topic, this is a moot point. Granted it
is
not directly involved with technical questions of electronics or
telecommunications, but, since the purpose of sci.electronics.basics is
to
help newcomers with basic electronics problems, anything which makes it
easier to impart such knowledge can be considered on topic

---
Frayed knot. Anything not directly related to the discussion of
electronics is off-topic here, regardless of how "helpful" you may think
what you consider to be learning aids is. Resistors, capacitors,
inductors, voltage, impedance, etc. is on topic. The size of shoes to
wear when reading an electronics book is not.
---


Also, it would
be pretty useless to post such a topic elsewhere

---
As it is here.
---

Basically, John, if you don't agree with the idea, don't use it. Stay
away.
It's a free internet, nobody's forcing you to join in.

---
You seem to have a remarkable grasp of the obvious.
---

But, if you do join in, and wish to continue to join in, all you need do
is
abide by some pretty simple, non restrictive rules.

---
Non-restrictive rules? Can you say oxymoron? Are you really so stupid
that you you don't realize that rules, by their very nature, are
restrictive?
---

If that is too much for
you, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.

---
Well, if you ever get it together maybe I'll drop by for a laugh or
two...

--
John Fields

John Fields,

I have bent over backwards trying to be civil to you, and every time you
reply you are rude, patronising and boorish. For all your purported
knowledge of electronics you are obviously immature and incapable of polite
social discourse.

People like you are one of the main reasons that more people don't post to
these newsgroups. What is the point if some jumped up, self opinionated
loudmouth uses the medium to voice his own opinions without regard to either
the purposes of the group or the sensabilities of the others in the group.

You should be aware by now, and if you are not you are even more obtruse
than I have up to now considered you, that you and others like you are the
main reason why I am proposing a minimally moderated newsgroup.

You obviously have a lot of hostility to the idea of even a marginally
moderated group, and I can only conclude that you are afraid that you would
be among the first to be banned from the group. Well, fear not, you have
about as much chance of throwing your self opinionated weight around in the
new group as you have of having a life.

Now go away, you silly little man.

JF

 

[Baphomet]

"Roy McCammon" <rmccammon@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3F92D6CC.1000001@austin.rr.com...

John Fortier wrote:

They seem to think that behaviour which would get them banned from any
decent pub or bar is completely acceptable in a newsgroup. The question
is;
why should it be?

Because in a real bar people including non-participating bystanders
would get real injuries. That doesn't happen here.

Unless of course they have really fragile egos due to arrested emotional
development. Names withheld by request ;-)

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:45 GMT, "John Fortier"
<jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

Now go away, you silly little man.

JF

JF,

Now you have to ban *yourself* from the moderated group!

John

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <54a5pvgilf7ihjv642m19kq74bb51e7j3o@4ax.com>,
jfields@austininstruments.com says...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:09:21 GMT, "John Fortier"
jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:


Hopefully, beginners making enquiries in the new group will be better
treated than those asking questions of the present group. if only because of
the absence of some of the more abusive posters to the present group.

---
Once you've been around here for a while you'll find that newbies are,
for the most part, treated fairly. Even charitably, when the newbie
doesn't show up with a chip on his shoulder.

Or an obvious homework question.

As for your group, I predict that it'll fail because you're going to
wind up with a small population of pussies who feel they need to be
protected from those big ol' rough boys who play over on
sci.electronics.basics and OMIGOD sci.electronics.design. Don't _even_
go over _there_, it's like the wild, wild, West!

Indeed that's why I subscribed to SED. A newbie I've e-known for
years was trashed by *idiots*. I can handle the nutcases and
indeed I've found some really sharp people. Heaven forbid, I've
actually *learned* things.

--
Keith

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:45 GMT, "John Fortier"
<jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

John Fields,

I have bent over backwards trying to be civil to you, and every time you
reply you are rude, patronising and boorish. For all your purported
knowledge of electronics you are obviously immature and incapable of polite
social discourse.

---
You clearly have a problem with accepting criticism and consider the
discomfort of being intellectually unhorsed as something for which you
bear no responsibility and for which I am unilaterally to blame.
Further, my contributions to this and the other groups I frequent
represent real, not purported, knowledge. If you have any comments
regarding the validity of the technical content of my posts then I
welcome the challenge. If you don't, then piss off. As far as
immaturity and politeness goes, I'm sure you consider the former my
lack of reticense to confront you when you expect your bullshit to be
swallowed and the latter my refusal to kow-tow to penny-ante tyrants
like you.
---

People like you are one of the main reasons that more people don't post to
these newsgroups.

---
Yeah, right... And if you ever get your pussy group off the ground
I'll bet you'll be blaming everything and everybody except your being an
asshole for its failure.
---

What is the point if some jumped up, self opinionated
loudmouth uses the medium to voice his own opinions without regard to either
the purposes of the group or the sensabilities of the others in the group.

---
Pot, Kettle, Black, my man. Since you first reared your ugly head here,
instead of helping out you've done almost nothing but stay off topic
bitching about how fucked up you think the people you can't bully are.

I won't even get into your "technical" posts...
---

You should be aware by now, and if you are not you are even more obtruse
than I have up to now considered you, that you and others like you are the
main reason why I am proposing a minimally moderated newsgroup.

---
Then stop whining and do it.
---

You obviously have a lot of hostility to the idea of even a marginally
moderated group, and I can only conclude that you are afraid that you would
be among the first to be banned from the group. Well, fear not, you have
about as much chance of throwing your self opinionated weight around in the
new group as you have of having a life.

---
I don't see how you could have, but you seem to have confused hostility
with indifference.

Wanna start a new group? Go ahead, what do I give a shit?

Spend the rest of your life here whining about how not everyone acts the
way you want them to? Go ahead, what do I give a shit?

Visit your pussy little group if you ever get it together? Maybe I
will, I've never seen a queen holding court before...
---

Now go away, you silly little man.

---
I don't think so.

--
John Fields

 

[Roger Johansson]

"John Fortier" <jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

People like you are one of the main reasons that more people don't post to
these newsgroups. What is the point if some jumped up, self opinionated
loudmouth uses the medium to voice his own opinions without regard to either
the purposes of the group or the sensabilities of the others in the group.

You should be aware by now, and if you are not you are even more obtruse
than I have up to now considered you, that you and others like you are the
main reason why I am proposing a minimally moderated newsgroup.

Now go away, you silly little man.

He will not go away. He has been harassing people here for many years,
and he sees it as his duty to do it. He is the inofficial guard of the
traditional social system here.
He can go on abusing people until they give up and disappear, or
accept the system and keep quiet about it, and accept his leadership
without protests.
Most people have something to lose emotionally, so they are not
prepared to fight back more than for a short time, then they give up
and take care of their mind in a better way.

The guards of the social system, like mr. Fields, have sacrificed
their peace of mind and replaced it with will power.
They guard the manly ideal, guard the secrets about gender roles and
how the traditional social system works.
Such a guard can go on forever, because he believes strongly in the
system, and he has secret support from other men.
The only thing which can stop him is a new insight, like if he
realizes that he stands for an old traditional system which is
detrimental to mankind, and that we have to abolish this old system.

We have been trying to abolish this old traditional system but it is
still present and a lot of people cannot see any alternative.
We have abolished all official rules based on gender rules and
religious ideas, but we have not abolished this old system in the
practical reality.

--
Roger J.

(My email address is a spam trap, don't use it)

 

[Roger Johansson]

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:45 GMT, "John Fortier"

I have bent over backwards trying to be civil to you, and every time you
reply you are rude, patronising and boorish. For all your purported
knowledge of electronics you are obviously immature and incapable of polite
social discourse.

He is capable, but he doesn't want to.
He thinks it is right to be rude and patronizing to you.

Let's look at his style and his manners.

If you don't, then piss off. As far as
immaturity and politeness goes, I'm sure you consider the former my
lack of reticense to confront you when you expect your bullshit to be
swallowed and the latter my refusal to kow-tow to penny-ante tyrants
like you.

Who is using an abusive language here? Who is the real bully?

Yeah, right... And if you ever get your pussy group off the ground
I'll bet you'll be blaming everything and everybody except your being an
asshole for its failure.

"Pussy, asshole", low class style, foul language.

What is the point if some jumped up, self opinionated
loudmouth

Who is the real "loudmoth" here?

Since you first reared your ugly head here,

Who has "the ugly head" here?

bitching about how fucked up you think the people you can't bully are.

Who is using an abusive language here?
Who is the real bully?
Interesting tactics here, the real bully accusing the civilized and
nice person of being a bully.

Then stop whining and do it.

So you think nice people are "whining"?

what do I give a shit?

Foul language.

Spend the rest of your life here whining about how not everyone acts the
way you want them to? Go ahead, what do I give a shit?

And more abusive and foul language.

Visit your pussy little group if you ever get it together? Maybe I
will, I've never seen a queen holding court before...

Maybe you will one day.

Now go away, you silly little man.

I don't think so.

Wanna bet?

Your Texas style creationist culture is a problem in the world today.
People like you, mr. Fields, are upholding the old cultural patterns,
like the holy spirit, eternal love, the holy matrimony, gender roles,
a violent society, strong convictions, etc..

A long time ago somebody divided the world into heaven and hell, and
put a guardpost between them, to keep the world divided, and you still
stand there, fighting everybody who try to cross the borderline
between heaven and hell, aren't you?

Are the old traditional values and the old lifestyle really worth all
that suffering?

We are seeing a historical development towards a warmer and nicer
climate, but the old world is fighting back for as long as it can.
Old religious ideas like the holy spirit, eternal love, the sacred
marriage are still part of the lifestyle of many aggressive and rude
people.
They are speed-freaks, they like to mix violence and love, stress and
conviction, to some kind of super-love.

The violence we see all around us, in media, in schoolyards, in
workplaces, in usenet, is the result of these speed-freaks lifestyle.

They want to keep the aggression level high, they want to balance love
and fear, conviction and anger, and love is a very convincing power.

They have specially trained girls who keep them happy no mattert how
badly they treat their world and each other, they mistreat their own
minds and their social world, and their women can still convince them
that everything is just fine.

The girls are trained from early youth to be very strong-willed and
romantic, so they could convince and idiot that he is infinitely wise.

The speed-freaks think very fast, so they feel very wise, no matter
how stupid they really are.

Creationist Love is based on hidden violence.


--
Roger J.

(My email address is a spam trap, don't use it)

 

[Roy McCammon]

Roger Johansson wrote:

Texas style creationist culture is a problem in the world today.

now you have defamed and offended Texas





--
local optimization seldom leads to global optimization

my e-mail address is: rb <my last name> AT ieee DOT org

 

[Michael Black]

Roger Johansson (no-email@home.se) writes:

Hey idiot. You've taken a thread that was existing in only one newsgroup,
and posted a reply to multiple newsgroups, so you can extend your vendetta.

Has it occurred to you that this thread to some extent started likely
because of that cross-posted thread about "how to post", and ultimately
sci.electronics.basics is in fact relatively free of the junk
that this thread wants to remedy? That once the sci.electronics.design
threads (and personalities) end up in sci.electronics.basics it gives
an illusion that the newsgroup is not friendly to beginners, which
then makes someone want to start a moderated newsgroup. Don;t
cross-post, and most of the problem goes away.

Michael

 

[Mjolinor]

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" from my favorite
philosopher Janis Joplin - also a Texan ;-)

Try Kris Kristoferson (assuming you mean the writer)

 

[Richard Henry]

"Baphomet" <fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:vp8fb0svs0m391@corp.supernews.com...

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" from my favorite
philosopher Janis Joplin - also a Texan ;-)

i believe janois Joplin rented the philosphy from Kris Kristofferson
(another Texan).

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:54:24 +0200, Roger Johansson <no-email@home.se>
wrote:

He will not go away. He has been harassing people here for many years,
and he sees it as his duty to do it. He is the inofficial guard of the
traditional social system here.
He can go on abusing people until they give up and disappear, or
accept the system and keep quiet about it, and accept his leadership
without protests.
Most people have something to lose emotionally, so they are not
prepared to fight back more than for a short time, then they give up
and take care of their mind in a better way.

The guards of the social system, like mr. Fields, have sacrificed
their peace of mind and replaced it with will power.
They guard the manly ideal, guard the secrets about gender roles and
how the traditional social system works.
Such a guard can go on forever, because he believes strongly in the
system, and he has secret support from other men.
The only thing which can stop him is a new insight, like if he
realizes that he stands for an old traditional system which is
detrimental to mankind, and that we have to abolish this old system.

We have been trying to abolish this old traditional system but it is
still present and a lot of people cannot see any alternative.
We have abolished all official rules based on gender rules and
religious ideas, but we have not abolished this old system in the
practical reality.

---
Phoolosophy.

--
John Fields

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:54:29 +0200, Roger Johansson <no-email@home.se>
wrote:

Your Texas style creationist culture is a problem in the world today.
People like you, mr. Fields, are upholding the old cultural patterns,
like the holy spirit, eternal love, the holy matrimony, gender roles,
a violent society, strong convictions, etc..

A long time ago somebody divided the world into heaven and hell, and
put a guardpost between them, to keep the world divided, and you still
stand there, fighting everybody who try to cross the borderline
between heaven and hell, aren't you?

Are the old traditional values and the old lifestyle really worth all
that suffering?

We are seeing a historical development towards a warmer and nicer
climate, but the old world is fighting back for as long as it can.
Old religious ideas like the holy spirit, eternal love, the sacred
marriage are still part of the lifestyle of many aggressive and rude
people.
They are speed-freaks, they like to mix violence and love, stress and
conviction, to some kind of super-love.

The violence we see all around us, in media, in schoolyards, in
workplaces, in usenet, is the result of these speed-freaks lifestyle.

They want to keep the aggression level high, they want to balance love
and fear, conviction and anger, and love is a very convincing power.

They have specially trained girls who keep them happy no mattert how
badly they treat their world and each other, they mistreat their own
minds and their social world, and their women can still convince them
that everything is just fine.

The girls are trained from early youth to be very strong-willed and
romantic, so they could convince and idiot that he is infinitely wise.

The speed-freaks think very fast, so they feel very wise, no matter
how stupid they really are.

Creationist Love is based on hidden violence.

---
Good luck on finding a therepist who can keep from laughing...

--
John Fields

 

[Roger Johansson]

et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:

You've taken a thread that was existing in only one newsgroup,
and posted a reply to multiple newsgroups, so you can extend your vendetta.

Parts of the subject was already crossposted to four newsgroups.
I removed one which I don't know, and replied in 3 of them.

Then I used the same groups for the other messages which were parts of
the same debate.

Has it occurred to you that this thread to some extent started likely
because of that cross-posted thread about "how to post", and ultimately
sci.electronics.basics is in fact relatively free of the junk

It was earlier, but now this abusive style has been dominating the
group, so we may just as well discuss why people become abusive, and
the ideologies which lay behind the behavior, and the historical roots
of these ideologies. There is a certain lifestyle these abusers want
to preserve, just like the people in Kansas who fight science in
schools, because it threatens their lifestyle and culture.

They want to keep the gender roles and social dominance of violence,
and they use the religion to justificate that lifestyle.

In more modern parts of the world we have abolished religion and
churches, but the creationist lifestyle is still present, under new
names and with new justifications.
People are still forced to live at very high stress levels, the speed
freaks still are frenetically happy, natural and sensitive people are
still being mobbed, in schools, in workplaces, in the homes, in the
society in general.

Now they justify this frenetic lifestyle with arguments like: you have
to grow up and take responsibility for your own emotions, or you have
to take care of your woman, you have to be a gentleman, etc..

The results of this cultural pattern are restlessness, workaholism,
alcoholism, violence in media and in reality, fundamentalism,
terrorism, mental problems, drug abuse, etc..
....

Roy McCammon:

now you have defamed and offended Texas

And Kansas!

USA is one of the most violent and creationist countries in the world,
and unfortunately it has had economic possibilities to spread its
culture around the globe.

Today we see young kids here in Sweden who wear baseball caps and
train karate kicks towards the smaller kids on the schoolyards, and
gangsterlike rappers have become idols of the youth.

This admiration for violence and "respect" is very detrimental to
mankind as a whole, and the present situation forces us to realize
what is wrong with it and find a better way for or future.

It is probably only possible if the social leaders realize where their
culture comes from, and chooses a new direction.
We have to stop training boys in handling high levels of violence.
We have to realize that there is a hidden violence in people's minds
even if they do not think so when they are very loving to each other.

Love is often used just to cover the violence, and people train in
balancing ever higher levels of inebriation and violence.

They call it "emotional development", "to grow as a personality",
etc..


--
Roger J.

(My email address is a spam trap, don't use it)

 

[Baphomet]

"Roger Johansson" <no-email@home.se> wrote in message
news:2a78pvk1ult0eshhp6jrjn1qchps1uj3ms@4ax.com...

"John Fortier" <jfortier@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

People like you are one of the main reasons that more people don't post
to
these newsgroups. What is the point if some jumped up, self opinionated
loudmouth uses the medium to voice his own opinions without regard to
either
the purposes of the group or the sensabilities of the others in the
group.

You should be aware by now, and if you are not you are even more obtruse
than I have up to now considered you, that you and others like you are
the
main reason why I am proposing a minimally moderated newsgroup.

Now go away, you silly little man.

He will not go away. He has been harassing people here for many years,
and he sees it as his duty to do it. He is the inofficial guard of the
traditional social system here.
He can go on abusing people until they give up and disappear, or
accept the system and keep quiet about it, and accept his leadership
without protests.

Most people have something to lose emotionally, so they are not
prepared to fight back more than for a short time, then they give up

Heavy Snip...Snip...Snip

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" from my favorite
philosopher Janis Joplin - also a Texan ;-)

 

[Baphomet]

"Michael Black" <et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bn1dpf$lg9$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...

Roger Johansson (no-email@home.se) writes:

Hey idiot. You've taken a thread that was existing in only one newsgroup,
and posted a reply to multiple newsgroups, so you can extend your
vendetta.

Has it occurred to you that this thread to some extent started likely
because of that cross-posted thread about "how to post", and ultimately
sci.electronics.basics is in fact relatively free of the junk
that this thread wants to remedy? That once the sci.electronics.design
threads (and personalities) end up in sci.electronics.basics it gives
an illusion that the newsgroup is not friendly to beginners, which
then makes someone want to start a moderated newsgroup. Don;t
cross-post, and most of the problem goes away.

Michael

I've been checking a few of the posts. Many (including this one before
alteration) are cross posted. I never think to look before I hit reply. I'll
have to be more mindful of that myself in the future.

 

[Baphomet]

"Baphomet" <fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:vp8gljokch0kce@corp.supernews.com...

snip...snip...snip

I've been checking a few of the posts. Many (including this one before
alteration) are cross posted. I never think to look before I hit reply.
I'll
have to be more mindful of that myself in the future.

Damn...I did it again. I responded to a post that was cross posted without
checking first. I'll get the hang of this yet! DUH ^ 2

 

[Baphomet]

"Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:V3Ykb.765$aw2.84@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" from my favorite
philosopher Janis Joplin - also a Texan ;-)



Try Kris Kristoferson (assuming you mean the writer)

I had just gotten back from Vietnam in '67 when I first heard Janis sing it.
I don't think I even heard of Kris until several years later. Now, I can
barely remember my name ;-)