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I see you're getting to know DL and getting some experience as to
where the source of the problems really is.
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Should have added, assuming what you claim was true, that sellers would not
leave feedback for buyers until the buyer left feedback for them, so?
What"s so unfair about that? Neither the buyer nor the seller would get any
positive feedback. Both lose. And this was not going on anyway. I was on
Ebay for more than a decade before they changed the rules and I got plenty
of positive feedback from sellers. I never once had one try to extort me,
saying I had to leave feedback first.
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical.
The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
Ok, I suppose that is valid, but I wan't talking about returning things with no reason. I simply was pointing out that "no returns" doesn't mean you can't return something that isn't what you ordered or defective is otherwise inappropriate.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
Ok, if you are going to call me a liar there is no point in discussing anything. I know for a fact that nearly every established vendor had the policy of "we will respond to your positive feedback with our positive feedback on you" when I started shopping on eBay.
I think you must be too new to eBay to know about this.
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical.
Lol! That is exactly the extortion that used to prevent buyers from leaving negative feedback when the seller deserved it and is the reason for the current system where the seller has much less power vis-a-vis feedback.
The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
It no longer matters because seller feedback is unimportant. No one refuses to sell to buyers without feedback or too much negative feedback.
I did have one seller who refused to work with me on reshipping a device when he sent the order signature required without telling me. I was not able to pick up the shipment at the post office in time and it was returned.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
Clearly you just can't read what I wrote. It was explained clearly enough for a 12 year old to understand.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
The fraud was a direct result of eBay's feedback policy and users not being able to use feedback to blacklist the bad sellers.
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 1:00:38 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items..
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Should have added, assuming what you claim was true, that sellers would not
leave feedback for buyers until the buyer left feedback for them, so?
What"s so unfair about that? Neither the buyer nor the seller would get any
positive feedback. Both lose. And this was not going on anyway. I was on
Ebay for more than a decade before they changed the rules and I got plenty
of positive feedback from sellers. I never once had one try to extort me,
saying I had to leave feedback first.
You clearly don't understand what I am saying or you simply were not around at the time.
A new eBay buyer could not buy from most sellers since they wanted to sell to "proven" buyers with significant positive feedback. I think 10 transactions was the magic number.
Obviously you weren't around then and so don't know about this. But that is no reason to be in denial.
--
Rick C.
-++ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:54:07 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 1:00:38 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Should have added, assuming what you claim was true, that sellers would not
leave feedback for buyers until the buyer left feedback for them, so?
What"s so unfair about that? Neither the buyer nor the seller would get any
positive feedback. Both lose. And this was not going on anyway. I was on
Ebay for more than a decade before they changed the rules and I got plenty
of positive feedback from sellers. I never once had one try to extort me,
saying I had to leave feedback first.
You clearly don't understand what I am saying or you simply were not around at the time.
I understand what you are claiming, it's just that it ain't so.
A new eBay buyer could not buy from most sellers since they wanted to sell to "proven" buyers with significant positive feedback. I think 10 transactions was the magic number.
Nonsense. I've been on Ebay for ~ 20 years, never had that problem.
I never had a seller refuse to sell to me because I didn't have
feedback either. It makes no sense. If you buy a product from
Amazon or some online retailer, that you never bought from before,
that has no history with you, what do they do? Reject the order?
No, they sell it and ship it.
And they only changed the feedback rules way later maybe ten plus
years in, not in the early years.
It's totally unfair. Buyers can leave negative feedback, but seller's
cannot. Totally unfair, as a seller you can't see who's a crappy buyer.
So you have to bribe crappy sellers to leave you positive feedback and could never afford to leave anyone negative feedback because they would then leave you negative feedback which would blacklist you.
You getting negative feedback no more blacklists you than you giving
negative feedback to a seller blacklists them. If both can leave
positive and negative feedback, it's even, it's public info that all
can look at to make their decisions.
If all it takes is ten positive feedbacks, how many crappy sellers do you
have to go through to get ten positive feedbacks? In twenty years
and hundreds of transactions, I've encountered maybe 3 crappy sellers.
I racked up ten buys, in no time, with no problems and got positive feedback.
From the start, with 0 feedback, I never had anyone refuse to sell to me.
Obviously you weren't around then and so don't know about this. But that is no reason to be in denial.
--
Rick C.
-++ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
No denial, just the facts. What you are claiming makes no sense.
Can't get ten positive feedbacks because of extortion from crappy sellers?
Nonsense.
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:49:10 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.
Which suggests the problem is with you. Because in twenty years and
hundreds of transactions, I've only had a few that were problems.
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:49:10 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
Ok, I suppose that is valid, but I wan't talking about returning things with no reason. I simply was pointing out that "no returns" doesn't mean you can't return something that isn't what you ordered or defective is otherwise inappropriate.
Again, if you follow the thread, what I responded to was someone saying
that you can return anything.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
Ok, if you are going to call me a liar there is no point in discussing anything. I know for a fact that nearly every established vendor had the policy of "we will respond to your positive feedback with our positive feedback on you" when I started shopping on eBay.
And again, logically that is exactly how it should work. As a buyer, what
have you done until you indicate that you're satisfied? All you did was
buy it and pay for it.
If that's how you want to generate positive feedback,
then Ebay could automate it, but it defeats the whole purpose. The seller
sends you the product, the transaction is not complete until YOU as the
buyer indicate that you are satisfied with it and that is a big if.
How does the seller know that you're not going to start a lot of BS, want
your money back, make false claims that the item is not as described,
claim you received an empty box, etc? They don't until you say you're
satisfied and the way to do that is by you leaving positive feedback
for the seller. That indicates you received it OK and that it meets
the item description, that you're satisfied.
And again, you claim that the above makes it impossible to rack up positive
feedback? How could that be? You buy twenty things, you're happy, you
leave the seller positive feedback, then they leave you positive feedback..
How hard is that? It's simple, the seller CAN't legitimately and fairly
give you feedback one way or the other, until they know you're satisfied
and that the transaction is done.
If a buyer had much negative feedback
If they did, they likely earned it. Just like if a seller has
negative feedback. As it is now, you can see bad sellers, but
you can't see bad buyers.
or even a lack of positive feedback they wouldn't sell to you.
Pitty that. Twenty years on Ebay, never had that happen. And even
if it did, so what? There are many sellers on Ebay or elsewhere that
will. Butch up and take your business someplace else.
I think you must be too new to eBay to know about this.
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical.
Lol! That is exactly the extortion that used to prevent buyers from leaving negative feedback when the seller deserved it and is the reason for the current system where the seller has much less power vis-a-vis feedback.
Nonsense. It was a level playing field as it should be.
The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
It no longer matters because seller feedback is unimportant. No one refuses to sell to buyers without feedback or too much negative feedback.
In my experience they never did. Maybe the real problem is you have
bad feedback. And even if some sellers refused to sell, there are plenty
of other sellers on Ebay and online, so what's the problem?
I did have one seller who refused to work with me on reshipping a device when he sent the order signature required without telling me. I was not able to pick up the shipment at the post office in time and it was returned..
How hard is it to pick up a shipment before it's sent back? They hold
stuff at the post office for at least a week.
Because of the long shipping times and the return time, etc. I missed the eBay window of dispute. I think I also missed the window on the credit card.
There has to be more to it than that. It would be one hell of a long
shipping time to wind up outside the Ebay dispute window and a CC
window too.
Even if he kept the unit I was due a refund of the purchase minus the shipping. He simply refused to discuss it with me any longer. So I did use the "shyster" technique to get another unit shipped on a new account and ended up getting a refund for that one and didn't feel at all bad about it.
Are you claiming that vendor refused to refund you the cost of the item?
Or just the shipping? I suspect there is more to this story, that you
probably decided you didn't want it and that's why you didn't pick it
up at the post office.
BS. It was even.
Clearly you just can't read what I wrote. It was explained clearly enough for a 12 year old to understand.
What's clear is that when both buyers and sellers can leave feedback,
then it's a level playing field. Sellers aren't out to screw customers.
They want more of your business, if you are indeed a good buyer. If
you're a shyster, well then they will give you negative feedback.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.
Which suggests the problem is with you. Because in twenty years and
hundreds of transactions, I've only had a few that were problems.
I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Honesty would be allowing negative feedback from both buyers and sellers.
Ebay is all about profits and doesn't care, so they put buyers above
sellers.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
The fraud was a direct result of eBay's feedback policy and users not being able to use feedback to blacklist the bad sellers.
There was no fraud, it was an open and level system of feedback.
Well, that's what you're claiming! Simple fact is that when both buyers
and sellers can leave feedback it's fair and level. Why should shyster
buyers be hidden?
On Thursday, 23 May 2019 20:13:23 UTC+1, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:49:10 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.
Which suggests the problem is with you. Because in twenty years and
hundreds of transactions, I've only had a few that were problems.
It depends a lot on which sellers you buy from.
NT
On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 2:48:12 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:54:07 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 1:00:38 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline..net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical. The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
Essentially the sellers had all the power.
BS. It was even.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them. I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
Yes, if you wanted to be dishonest the system is now weighted to a dishonest buyer. But so are credit cards. I've never had a dispute turned down.
Irrelevant to feedback fairness.
What will generally happen, though, is that the seller will continue
to sell the fake items. Even after I filled out a "report fake item"
form, the seller was allowed to continue selling the fake items.
--
RoRo
Not surprised. I would bet that a large percentage of flash sold on
Ebay is fake in one way or another, eg claiming it's Sandisk when
it's a counterfeit. But there are also people like the OP, who don't
seem to care. That seller had all the warning signs. A product that
can't exist, terrible feedback, 92%, only 43 feedbacks in a year
and many of those indicating that the game cards they sold were
not genuine.
So this seller should be allowed to be a scammer just because it is obvious to many? It's pretty clear there are some that don't know the basic unwritten rules of using eBay without being scammed. Why should the scammers be allowed to profit from them?
--
Rick C.
Anything else you'd like to make up, that I never said or implied?
--+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Should have added, assuming what you claim was true, that sellers would not
leave feedback for buyers until the buyer left feedback for them, so?
What"s so unfair about that? Neither the buyer nor the seller would get any
positive feedback. Both lose. And this was not going on anyway. I was on
Ebay for more than a decade before they changed the rules and I got plenty
of positive feedback from sellers. I never once had one try to extort me,
saying I had to leave feedback first.
You clearly don't understand what I am saying or you simply were not around at the time.
I understand what you are claiming, it's just that it ain't so.
I have to call bullshit on you because I was there and I experienced it.
A new eBay buyer could not buy from most sellers since they wanted to sell to "proven" buyers with significant positive feedback. I think 10 transactions was the magic number.
Nonsense. I've been on Ebay for ~ 20 years, never had that problem.
I never had a seller refuse to sell to me because I didn't have
feedback either. It makes no sense. If you buy a product from
Amazon or some online retailer, that you never bought from before,
that has no history with you, what do they do? Reject the order?
No, they sell it and ship it.
Then you run the risk of getting ripped off and you admit you have.
Yeah, new sellers and a few experienced sellers would work with you, but not so many. There were even people who would work together to do bogus transactions like sell a piece of paper for a penny and both would provide positive feedback to one another to get over this hump.
And they o
years in, not in the early years.
It's totally unfair. Buyers can leave negative feedback, but seller's
cannot. Totally unfair, as a seller you can't see who's a crappy buyer..
Yes, but as I explained, that is a direct result of the sellers having a strangle hold on the buyer's feedback.
Another thing they changed... or in reality, gave up on was the buyer agreement that said you waive the right to dispute a charge with your credit card agency. The credit card companies wisely rejected that idea so both parties have the government mandated process to resolve disputes regardless of what eBay says.
So you have to bribe crappy sellers to leave you positive feedback and could never afford to leave anyone negative feedback because they would then leave you negative feedback which would blacklist you.
You getting negative feedback no more blacklists you than you giving
negative feedback to a seller blacklists them. If both can leave
positive and negative feedback, it's even, it's public info that all
can look at to make their decisions.
That's the part you don't seem to understand. Many sellers would not sell to you if you had too few positive feedbacks or had any negative feedback..
If all it takes is ten positive feedbacks, how many crappy sellers do you
have to go through to get ten positive feedbacks? In twenty years
and hundreds of transactions, I've encountered maybe 3 crappy sellers.
This thread was started because of the many, many crappy sellers offering bogus flash drives. There are any number of crap sellers who offer inferior goods.
I racked up ten buys, in no time, with no problems and got positive feedback.
From the start, with 0 feedback, I never had anyone refuse to sell to me.
So your experience is everyone's experience?
On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 3:13:23 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 5:49:10 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:52:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:00 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-4, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2019 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
You have to read the return
policy for the specific item you are buying.
Return policy only applies when the buyer wants to return an item that
there is nothing wrong with. Say, if you change your mind.
If the item is not as described, the seller cannot run away from his
responsibilities. Selling fake thumb drives is fraud.
I agree. But someone made a claim that you can always return anything
on Ebay. There are many listings that state no returns. There are ways
you can probably get around that anyway, by shystering, lying, saying
that it's not as described, etc. But I think Ebay tracks how many
disputes you have, etc, and you'd hope that if shysters pull that,
they would get flagged after a certain number. But maybe not, because
Ebay does highly favor buyers over sellers. One terrible thing they
did was change the feedback so that sellers can no longer leave negative
feedback for buyers. That just isn't right.
Why is reporting something as "Not as described" "shystering" or lying when that is the truth?
It's not when it's true. What I was talking about was someone said you
can always return something on Ebay. Some sales are no returns. If it
arrives and you decide you don't really need it, don't want it, paid too
much, you can try to shyster to return it. As a seller on Ebay, I've
had it happen to me.
Ok, I suppose that is valid, but I wan't talking about returning things with no reason. I simply was pointing out that "no returns" doesn't mean you can't return something that isn't what you ordered or defective is otherwise inappropriate.
Again, if you follow the thread, what I responded to was someone saying
that you can return anything.
You were taking the remark out of context. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
They changed the feedback because the sellers had the leverage by not selling to anyone without a minimum amount of positive feedback and they would not give you feedback until you left them positive feedback.
BS. Feedback extortion was always against Ebay rules. And if one seller
won't give you feedback, the vast majority will. Even what you just
said makes no sense. So, sellers want you to leave positive feedback
first. Do you have a problem with the majority of your sales? WTF?
You'd get plenty of positive feedback by receiving the item, then
leaving positive feedback for the seller. Are you a scammer?
Ok, if you are going to call me a liar there is no point in discussing anything. I know for a fact that nearly every established vendor had the policy of "we will respond to your positive feedback with our positive feedback on you" when I started shopping on eBay.
And again, logically that is exactly how it should work. As a buyer, what
have you done until you indicate that you're satisfied? All you did was
buy it and pay for it.
Lol! Isn't that the important part? So if a buyer isn't satisfied, they are not entitled to positive feedback?
If that's how you want to generate positive feedback,
then Ebay could automate it, but it defeats the whole purpose. The seller
sends you the product, the transaction is not complete until YOU as the
buyer indicate that you are satisfied with it and that is a big if.
Why is that the end of it? Ok, if that is the end of the transaction, there is no need for the seller to provide feedback since that is obvious and can be automated.
How does the seller know that you're not going to start a lot of BS, want
your money back, make false claims that the item is not as described,
claim you received an empty box, etc? They don't until you say you're
satisfied and the way to do that is by you leaving positive feedback
for the seller. That indicates you received it OK and that it meets
the item description, that you're satisfied.
Obviously eBay doesn't agree with you. I guess eBay rules the day, so our opinions don't matter.
And again, you claim that the above makes it impossible to rack up positive
feedback? How could that be? You buy twenty things, you're happy, you
leave the seller positive feedback, then they leave you positive feedback.
How hard is that? It's simple, the seller CAN't legitimately and fairly
give you feedback one way or the other, until they know you're satisfied
and that the transaction is done.
You ignore the part where many sellers wouldn't sell to you if you didn't have the "right" feedback.
Ok, so I guess eBay had no reason to change the rules. Eh?
If a buyer had much negative feedback
If they did, they likely earned it. Just like if a seller has
negative feedback. As it is now, you can see bad sellers, but
you can't see bad buyers.
Yeah, I get that, but they did this because the previous system was being abused by sellers.
or even a lack of positive feedback they wouldn't sell to you.
Pitty that. Twenty years on Ebay, never had that happen. And even
if it did, so what? There are many sellers on Ebay or elsewhere that
will. Butch up and take your business someplace else.
How could it happen to you once you get a few buys under your belt? What does 20 years have to do with it? We've already talked about how this let to the rule change some 10 years or so ago.
I think you must be too new to eBay to know about this.
A policy of the seller
not giving positive feedback until the buyer had done so is very reasonable
and logical.
Lol! That is exactly the extortion that used to prevent buyers from leaving negative feedback when the seller deserved it and is the reason for the current system where the seller has much less power vis-a-vis feedback..
Nonsense. It was a level playing field as it should be.
And eBay destroyed their business and drove all their sellers away by changing the rules so egregiously.
Talk about nonsense!
The transaction isn't complete until the buyer indicates that
they are satisfied. Why would a seller want to give positive feedback
when they don't know if you're going to make a BS claim about an item not
as described, defective, or similar lie to get out of the deal? A seller
doesn't know what's coming next, until the buyer indicates they are
satisfied. As a seller on Ebay, I won't leave positive feedback until
either I get positive feedback or the return period has passed. And I
think that's being generous. If they won't leave me positive feedback,
I probably shouldn't leave them any either.
It no longer matters because seller feedback is unimportant. No one refuses to sell to buyers without feedback or too much negative feedback.
In my experience they never did. Maybe the real problem is you have
bad feedback. And even if some sellers refused to sell, there are plenty
of other sellers on Ebay and online, so what's the problem?
You can't seem to maintain focus. Back then they didn't have all the megasellers. Most sellers were smaller operations and there were a lot fewer of them. The majority would not sell to poor feedback buyers as I have indicated, because they didn't want to deal with the relatively few problem buyers. The new buyers were victims of this, but mostly the problem was buyers couldn't afford to be honest in their evaluations of sellers.
I did have one seller who refused to work with me on reshipping a device when he sent the order signature required without telling me. I was not able to pick up the shipment at the post office in time and it was returned.
How hard is it to pick up a shipment before it's sent back? They hold
stuff at the post office for at least a week.
The PO is 20 miles from this house and I'm often not even here. You never know when the packages will be delivered so it's hard to plan for delivery.
Because of the long shipping times and the return time, etc. I missed the eBay window of dispute. I think I also missed the window on the credit card.
There has to be more to it than that. It would be one hell of a long
shipping time to wind up outside the Ebay dispute window and a CC
window too.
Have you bought anything from Asia??? Yeah, it is not uncommon for the "free" shipping to be quoted as a range which runs right up to the 60 day window. But then you haven't believed anything I say so far, so why would you believe that?
Even if he kept the unit I was due a refund of the purchase minus the shipping. He simply refused to discuss it with me any longer. So I did use the "shyster" technique to get another unit shipped on a new account and ended up getting a refund for that one and didn't feel at all bad about it..
Are you claiming that vendor refused to refund you the cost of the item?
Or just the shipping? I suspect there is more to this story, that you
probably decided you didn't want it and that's why you didn't pick it
up at the post office.
Once the package returned and I sent him an email saying I wanted him to reship it, he simply stopped responding to the emails and never refunded a dime.
BS. It was even.
Clearly you just can't read what I wrote. It was explained clearly enough for a 12 year old to understand.
What's clear is that when both buyers and sellers can leave feedback,
then it's a level playing field. Sellers aren't out to screw customers..
They want more of your business, if you are indeed a good buyer. If
you're a shyster, well then they will give you negative feedback.
Yes, today with the new rules things are level and sellers have to treat their customers right.
After a couple of problem transactions (including eBay lying about an attempt to report fraudulent transactions where eBay had no interest in contacting the police) I quit using them.
Which suggests the problem is with you. Because in twenty years and
hundreds of transactions, I've only had a few that were problems.
The lying wasn't even my problem, but I mispoke. It was actually a PalPay issue but they were a single company for a while. A friend asked me how to send a fax from my computer. I was helping and read the letter. It was presented as a form for her to get her money back from from criminals on PayPal. When I read it I realized this was an affidavit to permanently waive her rights to have the transactions reversed, sent by the criminals to look like it came from PayPal.
I stopped the fax and called PayPal to report the fraud thinking they would want to get the cops involved. They told me to call the XYZ department at number ABC. I called and got passed to another number. Called and passed again. Finally they told me I need to talk to the Fraud department and gave me a number. Calling that number I recognized the voice as the person I originally spoke to who started me on the merry chase! She took the information but never did anything about reporting it to the police. PayPal actually tried to wear me out and make it impossible to locate the Fraud department by lying to me!
I then realized what was happening. If it is reported to the police it will show up in the numbers. No report, no fraud. They can deny there were so many reports of fraud.
I was not alone and eBay realized supporting the sellers in this manner was not as profitable as making the sellers be honest.
Honesty would be allowing negative feedback from both buyers and sellers.
Ebay is all about profits and doesn't care, so they put buyers above
sellers.
Yeah, but mostly because sellers were abusing the previous system.
Totally different issue and irrelevant to feedback.
The fraud was a direct result of eBay's feedback policy and users not being able to use feedback to blacklist the bad sellers.
There was no fraud, it was an open and level system of feedback.
There's the problem. It's not level.
Feedback that can be dominated by sellers refusing to do business with low feedback buyers making it hard to get started and impossible to leave honest feedback without being blacklisted.
Clearly you have this enormous bias about the issue and refuse to acknowledge the reason why eBay changed their feedback system. Clearly they have no reason to dis the sellers unless there is a significant problem.
I did a quick Google search and found a forum post from a seller in 2012 who wanted to not sell to low feedback buyers.
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 1:00:27 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
Well, that's what you're claiming! Simple fact is that when both buyers
and sellers can leave feedback it's fair and level. Why should shyster
buyers be hidden?
Ah, finally the real issue. Because when it was the other way, where sellers could blackmail buyers, the size of the market was much smaller. eBay in their wisdom realized if they wanted to grow they had to protect buyers at the expense of sellers, just like store front businesses. If you buy something from Walmart they simply will accept it back, no questions, you don't even need a receipt in my experience. Do they lose money on fraudulent returns, yes. Do they make more money this way from more sales, yes. Win-win.
Is that clear enough for you?