24V to 500-1000V, 20W floating DC-DC converter...

torsdag den 23. juli 2020 kl. 01.19.00 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y
Click to expand...

hopefully debugging a powersupply doesn\'t make fireballs like that ;)
 
torsdag den 23. juli 2020 kl. 01.19.00 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y
Click to expand...

hopefully debugging a powersupply doesn\'t make fireballs like that ;)
 
On 7/22/2020 7:37 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 3:30 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Since you bring it up, it bothered me when you said that too.
I assume people mostly know what they are talking about.
Why not be nice?

BTW 5 uF for a piezo stack doesn\'t strike me as impossible.
I used this little multilayer stacks (for motion) that were ~0.1 uf
(only 150 V.)
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=61

George H.

Do the math on how much peak current you\'d need to slew a 1000 volt 5uF
piezo stack full-range to have a sub-ms response time mah dude! with a
20 watt converter it must not be doing anything fast. the V^2 in
0.5*C*V^2 is a bitch

OK... IDK. The piezo stack things are pretty slow.
Click to expand...

Ya, it\'s just a 5uF 1000 volt filter cap on the out put it seems? That\'s
quite a capacitor bank for a piezo driver.

> The OP must be doing something else.

Above my \"pay grade\", whatever it is.

> George H.
 
On 7/22/2020 7:37 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 3:50:46 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 3:30 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Since you bring it up, it bothered me when you said that too.
I assume people mostly know what they are talking about.
Why not be nice?

BTW 5 uF for a piezo stack doesn\'t strike me as impossible.
I used this little multilayer stacks (for motion) that were ~0.1 uf
(only 150 V.)
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=61

George H.

Do the math on how much peak current you\'d need to slew a 1000 volt 5uF
piezo stack full-range to have a sub-ms response time mah dude! with a
20 watt converter it must not be doing anything fast. the V^2 in
0.5*C*V^2 is a bitch

OK... IDK. The piezo stack things are pretty slow.
Click to expand...

Ya, it\'s just a 5uF 1000 volt filter cap on the out put it seems? That\'s
quite a capacitor bank for a piezo driver.

> The OP must be doing something else.

Above my \"pay grade\", whatever it is.

> George H.
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y
Click to expand...

OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 11:43:32 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT), Matt B
matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:32:47 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Click to expand...

<snip>

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:40:31 PM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote:
http://www.sophia-electronica.com/Baxandall_parallel-resonant_Class-D_oscillator1.htm

has a circuit for a high-voltage output inverter at the bottom of the page, which relies on pulse with modulation to adjust the output voltage.

It\'s strictly an LTSpice simulation, the output voltage goes higher than you need, and the power levels are for biasing a photomultiplier tube and lower than you want.

A bigger transformer, with room for thicker wire would fix most of that - you would also need a higher voltage MOSFET switch - 24V into the centre tap of a Baxanadall class oscillator produces a 75.4V peak half-sine across the MOSFET that is off, and the AP9465GEM is only good for 40V.

The NXP BUK9Y72-80E might do.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1705544.pdf

I\'ll simulate this one as well and read up on Baxandall oscillators more.. Interesting that this design was never built; I\'m sure I would find a way to produce some fireworks.

Oh, Bill doesn\'t ever build things. He\'s only here to manufacture
insults.
Click to expand...

Not strictly true. I don\'t flatter John Larkin with the enthusiasm that John Larkin feels he deserves, but that isn\'t - of itself - insulting.

I haven\'t built anything recently, but I haven\'t been able to find people who needed stuff built. I\'ve certainly posted LTSpice simulations that probably would have worked if they had been built, but John Larkin doesn\'t count them.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y
Click to expand...

OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y


OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.
Click to expand...

Mooom, Mr. Larkin\'s trying to peer pressure me again. He say he\'s bad!

<https://youtu.be/Sd4SJVsTulc?t=516>
 
On 7/22/2020 7:43 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 23. juli 2020 kl. 01.19.00 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y

hopefully debugging a powersupply doesn\'t make fireballs like that ;)
Click to expand...

Pretty big cap for an un-vented type, here. Sploosh!

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX5FJftXmDA>
 
On 7/22/2020 7:43 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 23. juli 2020 kl. 01.19.00 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y

hopefully debugging a powersupply doesn\'t make fireballs like that ;)
Click to expand...

Pretty big cap for an un-vented type, here. Sploosh!

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX5FJftXmDA>
 
On 7/22/2020 7:43 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 23. juli 2020 kl. 01.19.00 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y

hopefully debugging a powersupply doesn\'t make fireballs like that ;)
Click to expand...

Pretty big cap for an un-vented type, here. Sploosh!

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX5FJftXmDA>
 
On 7/22/2020 1:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:52:25 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 9:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT), Matt B
matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:32:47 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I you want to design the whole circuit, take a look at LT3803 and its
app notes. It just always seems to work.

Scribble some circuits and we can talk about them. LT Spice includes
the 3803 too. It seems to work just like it simulates.

I generally like to design or at least modify a current design so I understand what\'s going on. This is new territory for me, so I\'ll look into a start some simulations. Thanks for the tip on the LTC3803.

The pragmatic way to do this, at least for a one-off, is to buy a
dc/dc brick that has a control input, and be done. But as you say, you
wouldn\'t learn much about HV supplies.

LTC/ADI has some starting-point simulations for the 3803.

I\'m playing with an isolated flyback right now, probably about 200
volts at very low current, possibly with a voltage regulator on the
high side. When my customer gets un-confused about what he actually
needs, I\'ll build him a demo.

Does you piezo move slow or fast? Win Hill has posted some interesting
piezo drive ideas here recently.

Says he\'s got an implied 1000 volt piezo stack with a capacitance
of...5uF? that doesn\'t sound right.

That would lift trucks, or buildings.
Click to expand...

Actually, it would lift 1.84lb one foot. Or one 10,000lb truck .0022
inches or one building...
 
On 7/22/2020 1:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:52:25 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 9:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT), Matt B
matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:32:47 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I you want to design the whole circuit, take a look at LT3803 and its
app notes. It just always seems to work.

Scribble some circuits and we can talk about them. LT Spice includes
the 3803 too. It seems to work just like it simulates.

I generally like to design or at least modify a current design so I understand what\'s going on. This is new territory for me, so I\'ll look into a start some simulations. Thanks for the tip on the LTC3803.

The pragmatic way to do this, at least for a one-off, is to buy a
dc/dc brick that has a control input, and be done. But as you say, you
wouldn\'t learn much about HV supplies.

LTC/ADI has some starting-point simulations for the 3803.

I\'m playing with an isolated flyback right now, probably about 200
volts at very low current, possibly with a voltage regulator on the
high side. When my customer gets un-confused about what he actually
needs, I\'ll build him a demo.

Does you piezo move slow or fast? Win Hill has posted some interesting
piezo drive ideas here recently.

Says he\'s got an implied 1000 volt piezo stack with a capacitance
of...5uF? that doesn\'t sound right.

That would lift trucks, or buildings.
Click to expand...

Actually, it would lift 1.84lb one foot. Or one 10,000lb truck .0022
inches or one building...
 
On 7/22/2020 1:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:52:25 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 9:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT), Matt B
matt.blessinger@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:32:47 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I you want to design the whole circuit, take a look at LT3803 and its
app notes. It just always seems to work.

Scribble some circuits and we can talk about them. LT Spice includes
the 3803 too. It seems to work just like it simulates.

I generally like to design or at least modify a current design so I understand what\'s going on. This is new territory for me, so I\'ll look into a start some simulations. Thanks for the tip on the LTC3803.

The pragmatic way to do this, at least for a one-off, is to buy a
dc/dc brick that has a control input, and be done. But as you say, you
wouldn\'t learn much about HV supplies.

LTC/ADI has some starting-point simulations for the 3803.

I\'m playing with an isolated flyback right now, probably about 200
volts at very low current, possibly with a voltage regulator on the
high side. When my customer gets un-confused about what he actually
needs, I\'ll build him a demo.

Does you piezo move slow or fast? Win Hill has posted some interesting
piezo drive ideas here recently.

Says he\'s got an implied 1000 volt piezo stack with a capacitance
of...5uF? that doesn\'t sound right.

That would lift trucks, or buildings.
Click to expand...

Actually, it would lift 1.84lb one foot. Or one 10,000lb truck .0022
inches or one building...
 
On 7/22/2020 2:50 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 3:30 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for
a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far
the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT
Application Note 29
(https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf).
It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer
is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ


There\'s also this design
(https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/)
that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it
adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first.  I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ


Good luck.  Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Since you bring it up, it bothered me when you said that too.
I assume people mostly know what they are talking about.
Why not be nice?

BTW 5 uF for a piezo stack doesn\'t strike me as impossible.
I used this little multilayer stacks (for motion) that were ~0.1 uf
(only 150 V.)
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=61

George H.

Do the math on how much peak current you\'d need to slew a 1000 volt 5uF
piezo stack full-range to have a sub-ms response time mah dude! with a
20 watt converter it must not be doing anything fast. the V^2 in
0.5*C*V^2 is a bitch



Even if someone here were able to provide a perfect custom design that
fit the bill the probability of something not working right on a first
prototype is high, and the probability of being able to figure it out
without a real working reference design or experience building more
modest switchers, is low

https://thedailywtf.com/articles/plz-email-me-teh-codez
Click to expand...

My calculator says 1000V and 5uF is 2.5 watt*seconds. So a 20W source
can get there in 2.5/20 = 125 milliseconds.
 
On 7/22/2020 2:50 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 3:30 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for
a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far
the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT
Application Note 29
(https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf).
It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer
is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ


There\'s also this design
(https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/)
that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it
adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first.  I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ


Good luck.  Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Since you bring it up, it bothered me when you said that too.
I assume people mostly know what they are talking about.
Why not be nice?

BTW 5 uF for a piezo stack doesn\'t strike me as impossible.
I used this little multilayer stacks (for motion) that were ~0.1 uf
(only 150 V.)
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=61

George H.

Do the math on how much peak current you\'d need to slew a 1000 volt 5uF
piezo stack full-range to have a sub-ms response time mah dude! with a
20 watt converter it must not be doing anything fast. the V^2 in
0.5*C*V^2 is a bitch



Even if someone here were able to provide a perfect custom design that
fit the bill the probability of something not working right on a first
prototype is high, and the probability of being able to figure it out
without a real working reference design or experience building more
modest switchers, is low

https://thedailywtf.com/articles/plz-email-me-teh-codez
Click to expand...

My calculator says 1000V and 5uF is 2.5 watt*seconds. So a 20W source
can get there in 2.5/20 = 125 milliseconds.
 
On 7/22/2020 2:50 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 3:30 PM, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for
a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far
the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT
Application Note 29
(https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf).
It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer
is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ


There\'s also this design
(https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/)
that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it
adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first.  I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ


Good luck.  Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Since you bring it up, it bothered me when you said that too.
I assume people mostly know what they are talking about.
Why not be nice?

BTW 5 uF for a piezo stack doesn\'t strike me as impossible.
I used this little multilayer stacks (for motion) that were ~0.1 uf
(only 150 V.)
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=61

George H.

Do the math on how much peak current you\'d need to slew a 1000 volt 5uF
piezo stack full-range to have a sub-ms response time mah dude! with a
20 watt converter it must not be doing anything fast. the V^2 in
0.5*C*V^2 is a bitch



Even if someone here were able to provide a perfect custom design that
fit the bill the probability of something not working right on a first
prototype is high, and the probability of being able to figure it out
without a real working reference design or experience building more
modest switchers, is low

https://thedailywtf.com/articles/plz-email-me-teh-codez
Click to expand...

My calculator says 1000V and 5uF is 2.5 watt*seconds. So a 20W source
can get there in 2.5/20 = 125 milliseconds.
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y


OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.




Mooom, Mr. Larkin\'s trying to peer pressure me again. He say he\'s bad!
Click to expand...

Peer?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
I need to make a 24V to 500-1000V, 20W adjustable power supply for a pulser. It needs to be a floating or negative converter.

My specs are:
Input: 24-28V
Output voltage: 500-1000V adjustable via control signal
Output current: 10mA @ 500V (5W), 20mA @ 1000V (20W)

I\'ve been reading through threads on different HV designs. So far the only one I\'ve come across that is isolated is Figure 50 of LT Application Note 29 (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an29f.pdf). It is specified for 1000V, 5W so not beefy enough. The transformer is also obsolete, but this comment mentions potential replacements. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/F120QpxWWkc/74ljdPZ_BQAJ

There\'s also this design (https://www.edn.com/1-kv-power-supply-produces-a-continuous-arc/) that is 1kV, 20W. I just don\'t know enough about making it adjustable and isolated.

Thoughts on how to proceed?

If you are going to try building it yourself, then I\'d start with the
500V 5 mA one first. I built my first flyback with the LT3083,

(2018... thread here
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=&hl=en#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/my$20first$20flyback%7Csort:date/sci.electronics.design/FQAIY1VaYBY/mLvGKJC2AgAJ

Good luck. Oh buying a ready made HV supply would be a good thing.
Gives you something to compare to if/when you have problems putting
to whole system together.

George H.


Yep. OP did not like that I disparaged/was skeptical of his plan to
build a 20 watt 1000 volt converter out of the gate but it strikes me as
a certain kind of madness as a first project if OP has not designed and
built a flyback of any type before.

Just different numbers. Shouldn\'t be really hard.


The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y


OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.




Mooom, Mr. Larkin\'s trying to peer pressure me again. He say he\'s bad!
Click to expand...

Peer?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 11:58:56 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:37:09 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:01 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:54 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:24:10 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/22/2020 10:21 AM, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:51:49 PM UTC-4, Matt B wrote:
Click to expand...

<snip>

The Thor rocket was just sort of a scaled-up kerosene burning V2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrrVHPur2Y

OK, my bad. It would be really hard for you.

Mooom, Mr. Larkin\'s trying to peer pressure me again. He say he\'s bad!

Peer?
Click to expand...

John Larkin makes more money out of slapping together electronics than the rest of us, which - in his eyes - makes him some kind of aristocrat.

Any pressure he applies is from a position of social superiority - at least given his ideas about how this particular society ought to operate.

Peer pressure is applied by your social equals. Narcissists expect other people to admire them quite a much as they admire themselves, and any shortfall in that admiration is insulting. He does complain about being insulted by anything less than fulsome flattery.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top