$1b electric car infrastructure deal

[Trevor Wilson]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:49081371$0$18426$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:6mpmj5Fhscm3U1@mid.individual.net...
**Here is what ONE Sydney council spent:


http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/_upload/files/Breakdown%20of%20Infrastuctur
e%20Plus%20Charts.pdf

Here's more information:


http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/PageZone_AboutCouncil.asp?z=2&c=466&p=1141

All of these funds were sourced from ratepayers (regardless of their car
ownership status).

So you DELIBERATELY ignore what I posted two or three times already :
"Make sure you include all motoring related taxes, levies, duties,
excises,
fines, etc, federal, state and local." just to make an incorrect
assumption?

**Council rates are not motoring related levies. Many people who pay rates
don't drive.

You also ignore the fact that non-motorists also use the roads and
footpaths
for public transport, push bikes, walking, and especially for road
transport
of all their consumer goods and most other services as well. Why I wonder?

**I don't ignore them. Pedestrians and cyclists do bugger-all damage to
roads. Cars, 4WDs, buses and trucks do far more damage (in roughly the order
listed). They also damage the health of non-drivers. Those people are
supported by our largely socialised medical system.

I would love to know just who in Australia can manage without reliance on
the road network one way or another, in the last century?

**Very few. Nonetheless, the ENTIRE road network needs to be paid for by
those who use that network. ATM, the only taxes that are easy to track are
those collected and allocated Federally.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:28:33 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

It's obvious to everyone else
already.

What is obvious is that you have no clue about the real cost of roads and
will believe piffle

If you're talking about toll roads,

I was talking about what is outside your front door.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:43:47 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

about how the general population contributes to the cost of roads.

And how motorists contribute to general taxation.

Nope, motorists are very heavily subsidised by general taxation.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:46:25 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

Which of course is rubbish, or they would charge for each specific
service, and let those who don't need them save some money.

When they start doing that,then you will be on a hiding to hell and an
empty bank account.

Lol, I'd love to see rubbish collection charge by weight. I'd hear the
chorus of screams all around as the big truck lifts the overflowing
megabins every week.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:42:53 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

You also ignore the fact that non-motorists also use the roads and
footpaths for public transport, push bikes, walking, and especially for
road transport of all their consumer goods and most other services as
well. Why I wonder? I would love to know just who in Australia can manage
without reliance on the road network one way or another, in the last
century?

Well, back then,roads were much more basic and didn't require complex
engineering to cater for 4 tonne behomeuth charging along at 120km/hr.

Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved from
Victoria to NSW by walking.

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

Mr.T wrote:

Which of course is rubbish, or they would charge for each specific
service, and let those who don't need them save some money.

When they start doing that,then you will be on a hiding to hell and an
empty bank account.

Lol, I'd love to see rubbish collection charge by weight. I'd hear the
chorus of screams all around as the big truck lifts the overflowing
megabins every week.

Coming in the UK. And one guy got fined for allowing his bin's lid not to
be closed due to excessive contents by about Ł220.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:42:53 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

You also ignore the fact that non-motorists also use the roads and
footpaths for public transport, push bikes, walking, and especially for
road transport of all their consumer goods and most other services as
well. Why I wonder? I would love to know just who in Australia can manage
without reliance on the road network one way or another, in the last
century?

Well, back then,roads were much more basic and didn't require complex
engineering to cater for 4 tonne behomeuth charging along at 120km/hr.

Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved from
Victoria to NSW by walking.

Irrelevant.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:50:52 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:42:53 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

You also ignore the fact that non-motorists also use the roads and
footpaths for public transport, push bikes, walking, and especially
for road transport of all their consumer goods and most other services
as well. Why I wonder? I would love to know just who in Australia can
manage without reliance on the road network one way or another, in the
last century?

Well, back then,roads were much more basic and didn't require complex
engineering to cater for 4 tonne behomeuth charging along at 120km/hr.

Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved
from Victoria to NSW by walking.

Irrelevant.

Very relevant in that I and lots ofother people do not need the "road
network" as you call it to get around. I do not need mega highways between
capital cities, four/six lane free ways, 2 lane major motor ways, or even
two way streets to get around, go shopping, buy stuff and carry out my
business.

I am very happy with the many alternatives that exist.

 

[The Doctor]

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:49066470.7B3D617A@hotmail.com:

Do you even understand the difference between baseload and peaking
generation ?

Without any calculations, how do you know what sort of load are we
talking about? As you say if you have to keep the baseload stations
running why not put them to good use?

They're just ticking over. Demand a serious load and they'll use MORE
FUEL.

You have a basic problem with thermodynamics I see and conservation of
energy. I guess SCIENCE wasn't your strong suit ?

I think SCIENCE is NOT your strong suit. Did I ever say it will use no
extra fuel? Do you even know anything about modern electricity network?
When do you think it would be most polluting? When we have to run up
older generators to meet peak demand from people charging their cars
during
the day or when people charge them at low demand (when the newer
generators can be run). And what about the loses in the tranmission and
distribution networks?

Unfortunately you are so one dimenational you don't think about these
other issues. I hope our scientists and engineers are not like you.
Otherwise we will just be happy to dig it out and ship it overseas,
sigh.

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
terryc wrote:
Mr.T wrote:

You also ignore the fact that non-motorists also use the roads and
footpaths for public transport, push bikes, walking, and especially
for road transport of all their consumer goods and most other services
as well. Why I wonder? I would love to know just who in Australia can
manage without reliance on the road network one way or another, in the
last century?

Well, back then,roads were much more basic and didn't require complex
engineering to cater for 4 tonne behomeuth charging along at 120km/hr.

Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved
from Victoria to NSW by walking.

Irrelevant.

Very relevant in that I and lots ofother people do not need the "road
network" as you call it to get around. I do not need mega highways between
capital cities, four/six lane free ways, 2 lane major motor ways, or even
two way streets to get around, go shopping, buy stuff and carry out my
business.

I am very happy with the many alternatives that exist.

You are in a tiny minority. Modern economies require high mobility.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

The Doctor wrote:

or when people charge them at low demand

And what makes you think that will be the norm ?

Graham

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:38:04 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

You are in a tiny minority.

I didn't say that I wasn't mobile,

Modern economies require high mobility.

Which is NOT synonymous with a expensive road network.
Nor any measure of "good"

e.g 10 stores in our main street mainly selling cheap plastic crap and
other junk from China.

 

[Mr.T]

"terryc" <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
newsan.2008.10.29.11.58.22.134656@woa.com.au...

Nope, motorists are very heavily subsidised by general taxation.

Still not holding my breathe waiting for proof on that load of "piffle".
Even the pollies aren't stupid enough to claim that!

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"terryc" <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
newsan.2008.10.29.12.01.47.29032@woa.com.au...

Which of course is rubbish, or they would charge for each specific
service, and let those who don't need them save some money.

When they start doing that,then you will be on a hiding to hell and an
empty bank account.

Not me, I'd save a fortune.

Lol, I'd love to see rubbish collection charge by weight. I'd hear the
chorus of screams all around as the big truck lifts the overflowing
megabins every week.

I get a discount for having a small rubbish bin already.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"terryc" <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
newsan.2008.10.29.12.04.27.840059@woa.com.au...

Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved from
Victoria to NSW by walking.

I did say in the last century!
Name one person who does not have any food, goods or other services
delivered by road?

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"The Doctor" <doctor@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B483B0A4E1BAdocwhoATbigpondDOTne@61.9.191.5...

so one dimenational

Must be something to do with America I guess, the only nation I know that
uses 'dimes".

MrT.

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:42:53 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

I get a discount for having a small rubbish bin already.

Which council?

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:45:30 +1100, Mr.T wrote:

"terryc" <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
newsan.2008.10.29.12.04.27.840059@woa.com.au...
Plenty of people got along with out motor vehicle. My ancestors moved
from Victoria to NSW by walking.

I did say in the last century!

Correct, you need to learn Australian History a bit bettter.

Name one person who does not have any food, goods or other services
delivered by road?

Oh, they still have deliveries in your neck of the woods?

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d84f64d8-03b3-4f31-a1d2-c3735cbc6a67@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...

With great
courage and vision, the Detroit Electric Car Company launched its
competitor, one of which came to Australia, and continues in daily use in
the Gold Coast, with the only parts replaced in 105 years being tyres and
batteries – a remarkable testimonial to the simplicity, durability,
efficiency, and economy of Electric Vehicles (EVs) as compared with
Combustion Vehicles (CVs) usually enduring only for 1 or 2 decades.

Or simply testimony of how little milage it has covered in that time! (or
more likely a total load of bullshit)

I'd love to know why wheel bearings, instruments, seats and a hundred other
switches, controls and body parts should last forever just because a vehicle
is electric powered? And we all know electric motors always last forever
don't we, not to mention it's necessary control circuits

HOWEVER, in a similar manner the original ICV is still in working order too,
as well as many early CV's (Steam trains, Stevenson's Rockets, Stanley
Steamers etc.) and they're even older!
Maybe we should be burning our coal in steam vehicles again rather than in
electric power stations?.... or maybe not

MrT.

 

[David L. Jones]

For those in Sydney interested in this stuff, there is a seminar next
Thursday.
Details below.

Dave.

Joint Electrical Institutions Sydney - Engineers Australia,
IEEE, IET

The 2009 Re-birth of Electric Road Vehicles

Date: Thursday, 13 November
2008

Time: 5:30 for 6:00pm

5:30 for 6:00pm
Venue: Engineers Australia Auditorium,

Engineers Australia Auditorium,
Ground Floor, 8 Thomas Street, Chatswood.

Speaker: L Roy Leembruggen, ASTC, FIEAust, CPEng, MUIPT

, ASTC, FIEAust, CPEng, MUIPT
Co-founder, Past National President, Australian Electric Vehicle
Association Inc.

RSVP & Further information: sydelecseminar@engineersaustralia.org.au

Thursday, 13 November 2008 5:30 for 6:00pm Engineers Australia Auditorium,
, ASTC, FIEAust, CPEng, MUIPT




Abstract

In the 1890s we learnt about ELECTRICITY, and how to produce and use it.
German Karl Benz and colleagues created the first electric car- a
quadricycle,. Development came quickly in Europe and North America, and in
1903 the world land speed record was held by an electric car. Also the USA
industry, led by Henry Ford and competitors, release the
initial production
Combustion Cars, backed by the emerging world oil industry. With great
courage and vision, the Detroit Electric Car Company launched its
competitor, one of which came to Australia, and continues in daily use in
the Gold Coast, with the only parts replaced in 105 years being tyres and
batteries – a remarkable testimonial to the simplicity, durability,
efficiency, and economy of Electric Vehicles (EVs) as compared with
Combustion Vehicles (CVs) usually enduring only for 1 or 2 decades. With 40
year EV experience, our speaker Roy will review this century of CVs and
EVs, and chronicle the 2009 Re-Birth or EVs, commencing with the 1973 "Oil
Crisis".



Presenter: Roy Leembruggen

Roy was born in the North Strathfield in 1928 to Engineering and Legal
parents, and is privileged to have had an education, work and community
experience well suited to spearheading the Australian re-birth
of EVs.
After 2 years at and Opportunity school, and 5 years at Sydney Technical
High School, he completed Engineering I at Sydney University in 1945,
Family circumstances brought his transfer to Sydney Technical College,
graduating with the Mechanical Engineering Diploma in 1949, simultaneously
with the Metal Trades Apprenticeship which brought him into wide daily
involvement in Sydney’s dynamic post-World War II manufacturing industry
1950-53 saw him as Design Draftsman / Section Leader/Assistant Design
Engineer with COMENG(QLD) P/L and the manufacturing of "Sunlander"
Air-Conditioned Trains, which continue in daily service throughout QLD
until now. Upon return to Sydney, he served as Works Manages where he was
earlier apprenticed, then in other professional engineering marketing
positions with several Transport Equipment and Materials suppliers. He was
the Design Engineer for the final "Sputnik" NSW
Single-Deck Electric
Trains, and then Inventor Engineer of the pioneering Double-Deck Trains,
built 1964-68 by Tulloch Limited at Rhodes. These were followed by 1700
more in 8 series, and lead the world in Electric Multiple Unit Double Deck
Trains with the largest fleet, with the original trailers retired just a
year ago. In 1969 Roy began his Transport Engineering consultancy joined in
1973 with Elroy Engineering P/L to embrace Marketing and Manufacturing of
Rail and Road EVs. In 1973 Roy was also co-founder of the Australia
Electric Vehicle Association Inc. In which he served as National President
for the past decade. Roy will outline a programme to create and Australian
competitor for the global Oil cartel and its cousin the CV Industry.