Your experience witg function generators

[Phil Allison]

"mike"
Phil Allison wrote:

- Just turned on. Frequency = 5.000 MHz Delta F = 0
- 15 minutes after. Delta F = -98 kHz (drift = 6.5 kHz per minute)
- 30 minutes after. Delta F = - 116 kHz (drift = 3.7 kHz per minute)
- 45 minutes after. Delta F = -132 kHz (drift = 2.9 kHz per minute)
- 60 minutes after. Delta F = -141 kHz (drift = 2.3 kHz per minute)
- 75 minutes after. Delta F = -147 kHz (drift = 2.0 kHz per minute)

I don't understand your numbers at all.
I see 6 kHz in 15 minutes. By my math, that's ~400 Hz. / minute


** In each case, the radio ham idiot has divided Dekta F by the elapsed
time.

How utterly clueless.


The guy came here for help.

** Irrelevant to the fact he is an utter idiot.

He has been courteous.

** Time wasters are not courteous, they are asses.

Derision is inappropriate.

** You are even bigger ASS than he is.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jeff Urban"

( snip piles of putrid shite )


** Fuck off - you RABID NUT CASE !!

 

[Jeff Urban]

"** Time wasters are not courteous, they are asses. "

OK, when the time machine is out of the shop, I will go back into your
past and when you ask a question I will shame you so bad that you will
never find your dick. People who call other people stupid when they
seek knowledge are more stupid. You CAN have more knowledge and be
stupider. Is there a test or something required to ask a question
here ? Did you form this group ? Do you own it ?

When YOU inhibit the education of others, what the fuck are YOU ?

_____

Now the topic, yes I agree with the general consensus here, this
generator was never intended to be a frequency standard. With the
specs the OP gave I wouldn't even want to have to use it to align an
AM IF strip, and I mean before ceramic filters when you could sort of
pick the IF frequency. Forget FM.

If the need is repetetive, like you ae maintaining a bunch of
communications equiopment for one company or whatever which all uses
the same band and modulation, there are several options. If there are
multiple units available more accuracy can be obtained by comparison.
A beat frequency is hard to miss no matter what the modulation
scheme.

Also if you have a frequency modulation input it shouldn't be too hard
to adapt or build an FM detector of some sort and make a feedback loop
to stabilise it. Of course then the problem becomes making your
detector more stable than the generator in the first place.

All said, I think you simply need to pick up a suitable generator and
delegate this one to audio or something, who knows. Who knows what you
might find on craigslist or ebay.

J

 

[Jeff Urban]

On Mar 19, 10:31 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Jeff Urban"

( snip piles of putrid shite )

** Fuck off -   you  RABID NUT CASE !!

I'm calling SEWPaC on you.

 

[Jamie]

mike wrote:

On 3/19/2012 5:04 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"mike"
Antonio I0JX wrote:


Frequency measurement results:

- Just turned on. Frequency = 5.000 MHz Delta F = 0
- 15 minutes after. Delta F = -98 kHz (drift = 6.5 kHz per minute)
- 30 minutes after. Delta F = - 116 kHz (drift = 3.7 kHz per minute)
- 45 minutes after. Delta F = -132 kHz (drift = 2.9 kHz per minute)
- 60 minutes after. Delta F = -141 kHz (drift = 2.3 kHz per minute)
- 75 minutes after. Delta F = -147 kHz (drift = 2.0 kHz per minute)


I don't understand your numbers at all.
I see 6 kHz in 15 minutes. By my math, that's ~400 Hz. / minute



** In each case, the radio ham idiot has divided Dekta F by the elapsed
time.

How utterly clueless.



.... Phil




The guy came here for help.
He has been courteous.
Derision is inappropriate.

Phil does not understand the use of those words from a civilized world
point of view.

You must understand where he comes from. Sitting in church on a
sunday and shouting out load
"some old hag must of just took a shit" is like clearing your through
silently so not to disturb others. Yes, those down unders do have a
strange way of using the language in a barbaric way.

Yes, phil is one those that if you were to hold your hand out for a
gentlemen's shake, he'd most likely reach down and grab your crotch
first to check your gender so that he'd know which fowl words to use on
you and spit on your shoes with chewing tobacco afterwards. You must
remember, where he comes from, Men look like girls and girls look like
men.... All have make up studios at their flats!


Jamie

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie = Fuckwit radio ham a MASSIVE TROLL"


** Have a massive aneurism - soon.




...... Phil

 

[Antonio I0JX]

"mike" ha scritto nel messaggio news:jk8h84$ptq$1@dont-email.me...

Drift is too high for any practical use.

But before throwing it in the waste basket (as I'll probably do in the
end),

That's an emotional reaction. Would you be upset with your plow horse
because it didn't win the Kentucky Derby? It's all about matching
the tool to the task.

Don't throw it in the trash. I know a dozen people who'd love to have it.


I prefer to have a single generator that can serve all my needs, rather than
having many generators, one for each application. Too much room otherwise,
too many cables and plugs.

In practice this HP generator is only good for audio applications. At IF
(455 kHz) it requires being re-tuned frequently to stay on frequency. At HF
(10 MHz) I cannot figure out an application that tolerates that frequency
instability.

I had other function generators in the past, but I do not recall having such
a high instability. That is why I suspect mine has some problem.

Better buy a DDS at an affordable cost.

Regards.

Tony

 

[Phil Allison]

"Antonio I0JX = radio ham fool "

"mike"
Don't throw it in the trash. I know a dozen people who'd love to have it.


I prefer to have a single generator that can serve all my needs, rather
than having many generators, one for each application.

** There ain't no such animal - you narcissistic imbecile.

In practice this HP generator is only good for audio applications.

** It's good for any application from 0.01Hz to 12MHz that does NOT require
a high level of frequency stability.

At IF (455 kHz) it requires being re-tuned frequently to stay on
frequency. At HF (10 MHz) I cannot figure out an application that
tolerates that frequency instability.

** Only shows how pig ignorant you are.

I had other function generators in the past, but I do not recall having
such a high instability.

** Absence of memory makes the heart grow fonder ?

That is why I suspect mine has some problem.

** You are one stubborn fucker.

Piss off.


...... Phil

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
newsedfm7ln0f9lj03h1gdk3rg7ope64thb01@4ax.com...

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:42:47 +0100, "Antonio I0JX" <vernucci@tin.it
wrote:

Frequency measurement results are:
- Just turned on. Frequency = 5.000 MHz Delta F = 0
- 15 minutes after. Delta F = -98 kHz (drift = 6.5 kHz per minute)
- 30 minutes after. Delta F = - 116 kHz (drift = 3.7 kHz per minute)
- 45 minutes after. Delta F = -132 kHz (drift = 2.9 kHz per minute)
- 60 minutes after. Delta F = -141 kHz (drift = 2.3 kHz per minute)
- 75 minutes after. Delta F = -147 kHz (drift = 2.0 kHz per minute)

150KHz of 5000KHz is 3% drift. That's within the specified 5%.

Drift is too high for any practical use.

Really? I used a 3312A in the 1970's to do type certification on
various radios. It was perfectly suited for running as an audio sweep
generator, or for making manual plots of various devices frequency
response. The only time I ran into trouble was when I had to generate
a specific frequency tone, such as the Bell system test frequency of
1004Hz. I just connected a frequency counter and reset the dial every
time it tried to move.

Whether it's practical depends on what you are doing with it. What is
your application? If it's generating a 5MHz RF signal to radio
receiver, forget it. Not only is it not stable enough, but the AM and
FM noise produced by the function generator is truly awful.

But before throwing it in the waste basket (as I'll probably do in the
end),

I think you'll find that it's a rather useful piece of equipment for
audio, not RF. I suggest you keep it (or sell it). Checking eBay
completed listings, they were recently sold from $70 to $150.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_skipfnorm=1&_nkw=HP3312A&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

I would be curious to know the experience of other people having that
generator or a similar one using the same (analog) frequency generation
principle (charging a capacitor at constant current). Do all of them
behave
more or less the same? Is my unit faulty?

It's not faulty and all such analog instruments drift and are noisy.
Please disclose your application and I can offer a class of suitable
instruments, or a specific device that I like.

My (messy) bench:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html
I count 7 different signal sources on the bench. There are about 10
more scattered in different corners. One signal source just can't do
everything.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

HTF do you work on that bench Jeff ? I thought my benches were a bloody
mess, but they are positively lab-standard compared to that !!!

Arfa

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:23:20 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

My (messy) bench:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html

HTF do you work on that bench Jeff ?

I think small. Most of the things I work on are small enough to fit
on what's left of the bench. Neatness is a sure sign of some
undesireable trait, although I don't recall what it might be at this
moment. Unfortunately, I now have a piece of unrepairable test
equipment scattered all over the bench, so all new projects have come
to a halt until it decides to allow itself to be fixed.

I thought my benches were a bloody
mess, but they are positively lab-standard compared to that !!!

It's been like that for about 35 years. Some day, I'll clean it up.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[gregz]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
newsedfm7ln0f9lj03h1gdk3rg7ope64thb01@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:42:47 +0100, "Antonio I0JX" <vernucci@tin.it
wrote:

Frequency measurement results are:
- Just turned on. Frequency = 5.000 MHz Delta F = 0
- 15 minutes after. Delta F = -98 kHz (drift = 6.5 kHz per minute)
- 30 minutes after. Delta F = - 116 kHz (drift = 3.7 kHz per minute)
- 45 minutes after. Delta F = -132 kHz (drift = 2.9 kHz per minute)
- 60 minutes after. Delta F = -141 kHz (drift = 2.3 kHz per minute)
- 75 minutes after. Delta F = -147 kHz (drift = 2.0 kHz per minute)

150KHz of 5000KHz is 3% drift. That's within the specified 5%.

Drift is too high for any practical use.

Really? I used a 3312A in the 1970's to do type certification on
various radios. It was perfectly suited for running as an audio sweep
generator, or for making manual plots of various devices frequency
response. The only time I ran into trouble was when I had to generate
a specific frequency tone, such as the Bell system test frequency of
1004Hz. I just connected a frequency counter and reset the dial every
time it tried to move.

Whether it's practical depends on what you are doing with it. What is
your application? If it's generating a 5MHz RF signal to radio
receiver, forget it. Not only is it not stable enough, but the AM and
FM noise produced by the function generator is truly awful.

But before throwing it in the waste basket (as I'll probably do in the >>end),

I think you'll find that it's a rather useful piece of equipment for
audio, not RF. I suggest you keep it (or sell it). Checking eBay
completed listings, they were recently sold from $70 to $150.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_skipfnorm=1&_nkw=HP3312A&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

I would be curious to know the experience of other people having that
generator or a similar one using the same (analog) frequency generation
principle (charging a capacitor at constant current). Do all of them >>behave
more or less the same? Is my unit faulty?

It's not faulty and all such analog instruments drift and are noisy.
Please disclose your application and I can offer a class of suitable
instruments, or a specific device that I like.

My (messy) bench:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html
I count 7 different signal sources on the bench. There are about 10
more scattered in different corners. One signal source just can't do
everything.

-- > # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS


HTF do you work on that bench Jeff ? I thought my benches were a bloody
mess, but they are positively lab-standard compared to that !!!

Arfa

I see some space. Everything within grabbing distance.

Greg