XOR at 12V and a few amps.

Jim Thompson · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:59:11 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:27:28 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

---
I don't know.

Petrus has made it evident that since you have two tail lights which
you want to subject to the same rules, separate circuits might be
necessary, depending on where you want to exert control.

If it's ahead of the flasher, that's one thing but,if it's after,
that's quite another.

What do you want to do?

My T-bird sequential system used SCR's along with the classic flasher
which interrupted the current and reset the SCR's.

But isn't most everything LED's now-a-days? So I'd be wary of the
current capacity of the vehicle, if it's new. I'd be more tempted to
simply redo the trailer with LED's...

http://tinyurl.com/9aqay49

Then the electronics becomes totally painless and low power.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice

Jim Thompson · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:28:02 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:56:05 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> schreef in bericht
news:610468hud070t6iut0650t9assh8urd3q6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

--
JF

Maybe. If so you can solve that problem I suppose

petrus bitbyter

---
Maybe.

I seem to recall from the stony ages that a bimetallic flasher was
turned on when the directional switch was energized, and the lamp
which was flashed was the one the switch pointed to.

How is it done now?

Microprocessor ?

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

--
JF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

George Herold · Sep 26, 2012

On Sep 25, 5:31 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:21:00 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On Sep 25, 10:36 am, Tom Biasi <tombi...@optonline.net> wrote:
On 9/25/2012 10:07 AM, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

You can make an XOR with relays. I'm not sure this is how to do your job
though.
I could show you a diagram but that would be the same as you going to
Google.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK thanks Tom, I'll google xor with relays. But yes I was thinking
about power transistor. (I've got lots of them)

George H.

I did turn signals with power bipolar back in the mid-60's... figure a
10X surge when the bulb turns on. (*)

Or retrofit your trailer with LED's ;-)

(*) I even resorted to a pre-warm current technique before giving up
and going to SCR's... in the sequential T-bird lighting.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks Jim... this is just of academic interest.... I was wondering
how to make an XOR function out of a few parts. JF's link and
petrus's circuit have 'shown me the way'.

George H.

petrus bitbyter · Sep 27, 2012

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:db350374-3509-45ca-8fc2-bfe561c0bb6f@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the
other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not
seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

--
JF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the schottky. Or p-channel Fets?"

Nope. An open contact does not sink current. Right, left and brake can only
source current.

petrus bitbyter

George Herold · Sep 28, 2012

On Sep 27, 7:58 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in berichtnews:db350374-3509-45ca-8fc2-bfe561c0bb6f@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com....
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the
other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not
seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

--
JF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the schottky. Or p-channel Fets?"

Nope. An open contact does not sink current. Right, left and brake can only
source current.

petrus bitbyter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ouch, that's right.
'scratch, scratch'
guess I better look at that patent circuit again.

George H.

petrus bitbyter · Sep 28, 2012

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:2c692a70-17e3-4730-9402-46efdd5155c3@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 27, 7:58 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in
berichtnews:db350374-3509-45ca-8fc2-bfe561c0bb6f@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the
other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not
seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

--
JF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the schottky. Or p-channel Fets?"

Nope. An open contact does not sink current. Right, left and brake can
only
source current.

petrus bitbyter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ouch, that's right.
'scratch, scratch'
guess I better look at that patent circuit again.

George H.

Nope once more. Guess the circuit below will do the trick as well. But, as
others stated already, the power transistor needs to be a real heavy duty
type as the inrush current of those bulbs can easily be five to ten times
the nominal current.

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
|
___ |<
+--|___|-----|
| |\
| |
+-------------------+-----+ |
| | |
| | |
___ |/ ___ |/ |
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---| .-.
| |> | |> ( X )
| | | | '-'
| | | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ | |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| | |
|> | |> | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+--------+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

petrus bitbyter · Sep 28, 2012

"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:50656ee4$0$3145$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl...

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:2c692a70-17e3-4730-9402-46efdd5155c3@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 27, 7:58 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com
wrote:
"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in
berichtnews:db350374-3509-45ca-8fc2-bfe561c0bb6f@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe,
you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the
other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not
seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that
drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

--
JF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the schottky. Or p-channel Fets?"

Nope. An open contact does not sink current. Right, left and brake can
only
source current.

petrus bitbyter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ouch, that's right.
'scratch, scratch'
guess I better look at that patent circuit again.

George H.

Nope once more. Guess the circuit below will do the trick as well. But, as
others stated already, the power transistor needs to be a real heavy duty
type as the inrush current of those bulbs can easily be five to ten times
the nominal current.

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
|
___ |
+--|___|-----|
| |\
| |
+-------------------+-----+ |
| | |
| | |
___ |/ ___ |/ |
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---| .-.
| |> | |> ( X )
| | | | '-'
| | | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ | |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| | |
|> | |> | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+--------+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

If you want to go for relays, you will not need a patented circuit I
suppose. See below.

VCC
Left +
| |
| o
_|_ \ left
|_/_|- \
| o \o
| | |
| + +
| \ /
=== X
GND / \
+ +
| |
Brake | |
| o /o
_|_ /
|_/_|- / brake
| o
| |
| .-.
| ( X )Lb
=== '-'
GND |
|
===
GND
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

For Vcc you can use the three Schottkys but keep in mind that they need to
be able to handle the inrush current. Otherwise you will need a wire from
the dashboards fuse panel.

petrus bitbyter

John Fields · Sep 28, 2012

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:29:03 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Sep 27, 7:58 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com
wrote:
"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in berichtnews:db350374-3509-45ca-8fc2-bfe561c0bb6f@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

"I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the schottky. Or p-channel Fets?"

Nope. An open contact does not sink current. Right, left and brake can only
source current.

petrus bitbyter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ouch, that's right.
'scratch, scratch'
guess I better look at that patent circuit again.

George H.

---
I think this'll do it with 3, SPDT relays. view using a fixed-pitch
font:

+12
BRAKE---+ |
| O K1
[COIL]. . ./
| O->/ <-O
GND | NC |
| |
| +----|---[LAMP]--+
LFLASH>-+ | | | |
| | O K2 | GND
[COIL].|. . .\ |
| O-> \<-O
GND | NO |
| |
| +----|---[RLAMP]--+
RFLASH>-+ | | | |
| | O K3 | GND
[COIL].|. . .\ |
| O-> \<-O
GND NO

--
JF

Tom Biasi · Sep 28, 2012

Snip..

If you want to go for relays, you will not need a patented circuit I
suppose.

petrus bitbyter

Go for automotive relays. They are proven for temps and environment.

Jasen Betts · Sep 29, 2012

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnât work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Iâve been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havenât tried
google, thatâs too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Iâm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

--
ââ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

Jasen Betts · Sep 29, 2012

On 2012-09-29, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

there's a simpler way if you have a +12 supply at the point where you
want to put the circuit just one relat is enough, coil wired between
the INDicator and BRaKe lines contacts switching +12V to the trailer.

--
ââ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

Michael A. Terrell · Sep 29, 2012

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

Jim Thompson · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice

John Fields · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:57:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---

Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

.. +12
..BRAKE---+ |
.. | O K1
.. [COIL]. . ./
.. | O->/ <-O
.. GND | NC |
.. | |
.. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
..LFLASH>-+ | | | |
.. | | O K2 | GND
.. [COIL].|. . .\ |
.. | O-> \<-O
.. GND | NO |
.. | |
.. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
..RFLASH>-+ | | | |
.. | | O K3 | GND
.. [COIL].|. . .\ |
.. | O-> \<-O
.. GND NO

--
JF

Jim Thompson · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:53:40 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:57:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---
Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

. +12
.BRAKE---+ |
. | O K1
. [COIL]. . ./
. | O->/ <-O
. GND | NC |
. | |
. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
.LFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K2 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND | NO |
. | |
. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
.RFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K3 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND NO

Jim Thompson · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:09:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:53:40 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:57:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---
Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

. +12
.BRAKE---+ |
. | O K1
. [COIL]. . ./
. | O->/ <-O
. GND | NC |
. | |
. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
.LFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K2 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND | NO |
. | |
. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
.RFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K3 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND NO

Are both "Brake" lamp circuits wired together? I have a wiring
diagram for my Q45... I guess I should open the manual and see how
Infiniti does it.

...Jim Thompson

John Fields · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:28:26 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:09:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:53:40 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:57:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---
Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

. +12
.BRAKE---+ |
. | O K1
. [COIL]. . ./
. | O->/ <-O
. GND | NC |
. | |
. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
.LFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K2 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND | NO |
. | |
. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
.RFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K3 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND NO

Are both "Brake" lamp circuits wired together? I have a wiring
diagram for my Q45... I guess I should open the manual and see how
Infiniti does it.

...Jim Thompson

Booboos. We fret over brake and turn, but what about tail/running
lights?

...Jim Thompson

---
There's no requirement for them to be included.

--
JF

Jim Thompson · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:16:54 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:28:26 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:09:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:53:40 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:57:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:47:25 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-09-25, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

a couple of form b relays each wired to disconnect the other circuit...

if you can read ascii ladder logic.

---|BRK|-+----( A )-------------
|
`----|/B|---+--(OUT)---
|
.----|/A|---'
|
---|IND|-+----( B )-------------

you'll want two of those, one for each side.

What about four way (hazard) flasher mode?

I didn't verify the logic, but doesn't "one for each side" cover the
hazard flasher mode?

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---
Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

. +12
.BRAKE---+ |
. | O K1
. [COIL]. . ./
. | O->/ <-O
. GND | NC |
. | |
. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
.LFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K2 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND | NO |
. | |
. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
.RFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K3 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND NO

Are both "Brake" lamp circuits wired together? I have a wiring
diagram for my Q45... I guess I should open the manual and see how
Infiniti does it.

...Jim Thompson

Booboos. We fret over brake and turn, but what about tail/running
lights?

...Jim Thompson

---
There's no requirement for them to be included.

Jim Thompson · Sep 29, 2012

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:27:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:16:54 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[snip]

Since Toyota's have been described as "5-wire", I presume that's...

Brake Left Brake Right
Turn Left Turn Right
Ground

So each side is independent and "Turn" (flashing) trumps "Brake"
(steady).

...Jim Thompson
---
Mine works like that and provides hazard mode flash as well, with
three relays instead of four:

. +12
.BRAKE---+ |
. | O K1
. [COIL]. . ./
. | O->/ <-O
. GND | NC |
. | |
. | +----|--[LLAMP]--+
.LFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K2 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND | NO |
. | |
. | +----|--[RLAMP]--+
.RFLASH>-+ | | | |
. | | O K3 | GND
. [COIL].|. . .\ |
. | O-> \<-O
. GND NO

Are both "Brake" lamp circuits wired together? I have a wiring
diagram for my Q45... I guess I should open the manual and see how
Infiniti does it.

...Jim Thompson

Booboos. We fret over brake and turn, but what about tail/running
lights?

...Jim Thompson

---
There's no requirement for them to be included.

Around her, in Arizona-land, you're required to have at least one
"running" light or a "flag" ;-)

I'm wondering if "5-wire" isn't actually...

Running
Brake
Left Turn
Right Turn
Ground

...Jim Thompson

XOR at 12V and a few amps.

Jim Thompson

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