XOR at 12V and a few amps.

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

There are some designs online, you must include the word schematic to
find them.

Several ideas, probably more complex than needed:
http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=217805&dfpPParams=htid_66,aid_217805&dfpLayout=article

A patent listing with schematic:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6232722

Tom Biasi · Sep 25, 2012

On 9/25/2012 10:07 AM, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

You can make an XOR with relays. I'm not sure this is how to do your job

though.
I could show you a diagram but that would be the same as you going to
Google.

Tom

Tim Wescott · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb for
both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnât work with both the brake
and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off one on, bulb on both on, bulb off So is there a way
to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Iâve been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havenât tried google,
thatâs too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Iâm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

If you're stuck on that proverbial desert island, then there won't be
anyone there to see your brake lights. So just don't plug the wiring in.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Jim Thompson · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:37:35 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>
wrote:

On 9/25/2012 10:07 AM, George Herold wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

You can make an XOR with relays. I'm not sure this is how to do your job
though.
I could show you a diagram but that would be the same as you going to
Google.

Tom

Tim Wescott · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:41:34 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnât work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines. both off, bulb
off one on, bulb on both on, bulb off So is there a way to do this with
some diodes, transistors, resistors?
Iâve been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havenât tried google,
thatâs too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Iâm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

If you're stuck on that proverbial desert island, then there won't be
anyone there to see your brake lights. So just don't plug the wiring
in.

Come to think of it, if it's the _same_ desert island that everyone else
uses for _their_ thought exercises, it should be littered with useful
tools and supplies (although mostly in packages no larger than one's
pockets). You could probably build a house just out of swiss army
knives, and have enough left over for a garage for the trailer.

But it'll also be littered with cases of beer and willing, good looking
women -- so don't get too distracted from the task at hand.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

On Sep 25, 10:36 am, Tom Biasi <tombi...@optonline.net> wrote:

On 9/25/2012 10:07 AM, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

You can make an XOR with relays. I'm not sure this is how to do your job
though.
I could show you a diagram but that would be the same as you going to
Google.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK thanks Tom, I'll google xor with relays. But yes I was thinking
about power transistor. (I've got lots of them)

George H.

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

On Sep 25, 10:41 am, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.please> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700, George Herold wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb for
both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the brake
and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off one on, bulb on both on, bulb off So is there a way
to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried google,
thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

If you're stuck on that proverbial desert island, then there won't be
anyone there to see your brake lights. So just don't plug the wiring in.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consultingwww.wescottdesign.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah and very few roads to boot.
(there's one in every crowd :^)

George H.

Michael A. Terrell · Sep 25, 2012

George Herold wrote:

On Sep 25, 10:32 am, n...@jecarter.us wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

There are some designs online, you must include the word schematic to
find them.

Several ideas, probably more complex than needed:http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=217805&dfpPParams=htid_...

A patent listing with schematic:http://www.google.com/patents/US6232722-

Thanks, I was hoping for something without relays.

The patent looks like there is a separate 12V power line coming in to
power the transistors. (But I didn't read it.)

George H.

You can use a set of diodes to take power off any line that has +12V
at the time.

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

On Sep 25, 10:32 am, n...@jecarter.us wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

There are some designs online, you must include the word schematic to
find them.

Several ideas, probably more complex than needed:http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=217805&dfpPParams=htid_...

A patent listing with schematic:http://www.google.com/patents/US6232722- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks, I was hoping for something without relays.

The patent looks like there is a separate 12V power line coming in to
power the transistors. (But I didn't read it.)

George H.

John Fields · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:07:29 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

---

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_6/2.html

--
JF

petrus bitbyter · Sep 25, 2012

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |>
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

John Fields · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
<petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

--
JF

petrus bitbyter · Sep 25, 2012

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:fde91814-633b-4d0e-9a13-6783d08ea432@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 2:49 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in
berichtnews:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

Excellent! Thanks.
Just one thing. Why do you have the right tied in at the top through
the schottky? This doesn't seem to hurt anything.
But doesn't help either. (that I can see.)

George H.
(

So you can use the "power" for the right bulb as well.

petrus bitbyter

petrus bitbyter · Sep 25, 2012

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> schreef in bericht
news:610468hud070t6iut0650t9assh8urd3q6@4ax.com...

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

--
JF

Maybe. If so you can solve that problem I suppose

petrus bitbyter

John Fields · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:56:05 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
<petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> schreef in bericht
news:610468hud070t6iut0650t9assh8urd3q6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

--
JF

Maybe. If so you can solve that problem I suppose

petrus bitbyter

---

Maybe.

I seem to recall from the stony ages that a bimetallic flasher was
turned on when the directional switch was energized, and the lamp
which was flashed was the one the switch pointed to.

How is it done now?

--
JF

John Fields · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:27:28 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Sep 25, 3:04 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"

petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

Oops. That's right. No worries this gives me a circuit to start
with.

I think I can jsut flip the whole thing over, use pnp's and get rid of
the
schottky. Or p-channel Fets?

George H.

---
I don't know.

Petrus has made it evident that since you have two tail lights which
you want to subject to the same rules, separate circuits might be
necessary, depending on where you want to exert control.

If it's ahead of the flasher, that's one thing but,if it's after,
that's quite another.

What do you want to do?

--
JF

George Herold · Sep 25, 2012

On Sep 25, 2:49 pm, "petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"George Herold" <gher...@teachspin.com> schreef in berichtnews:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Betawww.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

Excellent! Thanks.
Just one thing. Why do you have the right tied in at the top through
the schottky? This doesn't seem to hurt anything.
But doesn't help either. (that I can see.)

George H.
(

Jim Thompson · Sep 25, 2012

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:21:00 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Sep 25, 10:36 am, Tom Biasi <tombi...@optonline.net> wrote:
On 9/25/2012 10:07 AM, George Herold wrote:

First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldnt work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
Ive been unable to see the way to an answer. (I havent tried
google, thats too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say Im stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

You can make an XOR with relays. I'm not sure this is how to do your job
though.
I could show you a diagram but that would be the same as you going to
Google.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK thanks Tom, I'll google xor with relays. But yes I was thinking
about power transistor. (I've got lots of them)

George H.

I did turn signals with power bipolar back in the mid-60's... figure a
10X surge when the bulb turns on. (*)

Or retrofit your trailer with LED's ;-)

(*) I even resorted to a pre-warm current technique before giving up
and going to SCR's... in the sequential T-bird lighting.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice

petrus bitbyter · Sep 25, 2012

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> schreef in bericht
news:5h44681m2ja7vu03erj6lhlfst5breu6au@4ax.com...

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:56:05 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> schreef in bericht
news:610468hud070t6iut0650t9assh8urd3q6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> schreef in bericht
news:246c5933-2ea0-4fc2-b648-0ea8c72e6d17@r7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
First off this question is of academic interest only.

So I needed to hook up the a 4 wire trailer connector onto our Toyota
van. (previously we had a Ford van.) My brother warned me that the
foreign cars use a 5 wire lamp indicator system. (There are separate
bulbs for the brake and turn signal. The trailer uses only one bulb
for both brake and turn.)
I first thought I could just put the two (brake, turn) lines together
with diodes. But I then realized this wouldn't work with both the
brake and the turn signal on.
What I needed was a XOR connection between the lines.
both off, bulb off
one on, bulb on
both on, bulb off
So is there a way to do this with some diodes, transistors,
resistors?
I've been unable to see the way to an answer. (I haven't tried
google, that's too easy and this is more fun.)

Any ideas?

Oh, I solved the problem by going to carquest and buying a wiring
harness for ~$50. But say I'm stuck on a desert island with only my
parts box.

George H.

Well, guess you have right, left and brake. Assuming right and left
blinking, for the right bulb you get:

B R L | Rb
------|---
0 0 0 | 0
0 0 1 | 0
0 1 0 | 1
0 1 1 | -
1 0 0 | 1
1 0 1 | 1
1 1 0 | 0
1 1 1 | -

If you can have both right and left on, blinking "alarm" in Europe, you
get
for both bulbs:

B R L | Rb Lb
------|------
0 0 0 | 0 0
0 0 1 | 0 1
0 1 0 | 1 0
0 1 1 | 1 1
1 0 0 | 1 1
1 0 1 | 1 0
1 1 0 | 0 1
1 1 1 | 0 0

This way you will get B xor L for the left bulb and B xor R for the
other,
just as advertised.

So I suppose the schematic below will do the trick. Although I do not
seem
to remember I saw it before, I'm sure not to be the first one that drew
it.
Think I do not have to explain it for this public

brake -->|-------------+
Schottky |
left -->|-------------+
|
right -->|-------------+
|
.-.
( X ) Lb
'-'
|
+------+------------------+
| |
| |
___ |/ ___ |/
brake--|___|-----+---| left---|___|-----+---|
| |> | |
| | | |
| | | |
___ |/ | ___ |/ |
left---|___|---| | brake--|___|---| |
|> | |> |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
GND-----------+-----+-------------------+-----+
created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.24.140803 Beta www.tech-chat.de

petrus bitbyter

---
Isn't the lamp hard-grounded in the car?

--
JF

Maybe. If so you can solve that problem I suppose

petrus bitbyter

---
Maybe.

I seem to recall from the stony ages that a bimetallic flasher was
turned on when the directional switch was energized, and the lamp
which was flashed was the one the switch pointed to.

How is it done now?

--
JF

Suppose it depends on the age of the vehicle. Older ones may stil use
bimetallics, newer for sure use electronics. But does it matter? Especially
when one side of the bulb is hard-grounded the other side gets a pulsing
voltage from the turn and a constant voltage from the brake. Originally
meant for two different bulbs but to be combined by the circuit for one
bulb.

petrus bitbyter

XOR at 12V and a few amps.

George Herold

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