Will it ever be possible to give a congenitally-deaf individ

[artis]

"Ken" <kkerrison@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:1167088740.881256.3700@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

I understand Cochlear is developing a 48-electrode array - difficult
for the reasons you mention. And still a long way from thousands.
Incidentally, in my case, as a recent implantee, all electrodes
worked.

I have yet to tackle music - except what I pick up listening to
radio/DVDs/TV. And I have one ear which, with a hearing aid, can hear
up to 1000hz and, within that limitation, can enjoy music (No violins
but most vocal not bad and, oddly, clarinets come through)
In response to Kalman and others,

From reports from other implantees, experience with music varies widely
(I find myself wondering whether those who do well were, in their
hearing years, tone deaf - plenty of tone-deaf people love/ enjoy music
and the deficiencies of CI mentioned above would not affect them - my
wife is tone-deaf and, as a child, had a hopeless ambition to be in the
choir - naturally she always, eventually, got turfed out!).

The other thing is the ability of the brain to adapt - learn. I intend
to work with a keyboard to see if it is possible to follow the
chromatic scale - we will see.
And the other string to my bow is continuing development of CI
software. The big thing, for people interested in music, is that
Cochlear must be keen to sell CI technology to populous increasingly
affluent Asian countries whose languages are tonal. For CI to work well
in these countries its ability to convey music is, coincidentally,
improved.

Rush Limbaugh says that with his cochlear implant he can listen to music he
knew before his auto-immune condition rendered him completely deaf, and hear
it, but music he did not learn when his hearing was normal, he cannot now
decipher or appreciate. A very interesting observation, as he is a former
disk jockey, who now makes talk radio his livelihood.

Artis

 

[EOO]

"artis" <artis5@farscape.com> wrote in message
news:l1akh.27955$Rj.8490@newsfe19.lga...

Rush Limbaugh says that with his cochlear implant he can listen to music
he knew before his auto-immune condition rendered him completely deaf, and
hear it, but music he did not learn when his hearing was normal, he cannot
now decipher or appreciate. A very interesting observation, as he is a
former disk jockey, who now makes talk radio his livelihood.

Artis

I was under the impression that "America's paragon of virtue" was abusing
oxycotinin, a prescription
drug for pain, which they now attribute to causing his rapid hearing loss.
I remember when he was still losing his hearing, the doctors thought is was
an auto-immune condition but never saw one progress so fast.

 

[Ken]

artis wrote:

Rush Limbaugh says that with his cochlear implant he can listen to music he
knew before his auto-immune condition rendered him completely deaf, and hear
it, but music he did not learn when his hearing was normal, he cannot now
decipher or appreciate. A very interesting observation, as he is a former
disk jockey, who now makes talk radio his livelihood.

Artis

Interesting point - I have commented before of the ability of the human
brain to store vast amounts of music - not just the melody line,
harmony and words but the whole performance - the orchestra, the lot -
for hundreds of pieces in my case - maybe thousands. We leave those
horrible little ipod things for dead. I'll bet that many reading this
will recall instances where they have dredged up a song, virtually
complete, which they have not thought of for 20 years or more.

I suspect that people differ widely in this capacity though I would
also suspect that my ability is pretty typical.

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"Ken" <kkerrison@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:1167164382.253197.93290@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

artis wrote:

Rush Limbaugh says that with his cochlear implant he can listen to music
he
knew before his auto-immune condition rendered him completely deaf, and
hear
it, but music he did not learn when his hearing was normal, he cannot now
decipher or appreciate. A very interesting observation, as he is a former
disk jockey, who now makes talk radio his livelihood.

Artis

Interesting point - I have commented before of the ability of the human
brain to store vast amounts of music - not just the melody line,
harmony and words but the whole performance - the orchestra, the lot -
for hundreds of pieces in my case - maybe thousands. We leave those
horrible little ipod things for dead. I'll bet that many reading this
will recall instances where they have dredged up a song, virtually
complete, which they have not thought of for 20 years or more.

I suspect that people differ widely in this capacity though I would
also suspect that my ability is pretty typical.

Verdi said that opera was far superior to the theater because people could
hear 4 different people sing at once and yet understand each of them. Gives
an interesting slant to music processing in the central mechanism.

Michael

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"EOO" <whereeverforever.com> wrote in message
news:G9qdndJI_6qq3AzYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com...

"artis" <artis5@farscape.com> wrote in message
news:l1akh.27955$Rj.8490@newsfe19.lga...


Rush Limbaugh says that with his cochlear implant he can listen to music
he knew before his auto-immune condition rendered him completely deaf,
and hear it, but music he did not learn when his hearing was normal, he
cannot now decipher or appreciate. A very interesting observation, as he
is a former disk jockey, who now makes talk radio his livelihood.

Artis

I was under the impression that "America's paragon of virtue" was abusing
oxycotinin, a prescription
drug for pain, which they now attribute to causing his rapid hearing loss.
I remember when he was still losing his hearing, the doctors thought is
was an auto-immune condition but never saw one progress so fast.

Your memory is incorrrect. Mr. Limbaugh, as many others, has a family
history of auto-immune disease. There is no way, short of post mortem exam,
to make such an accusation as you make, so you, nor does anyone else, know
the actual cause of his loss of hearing. Are you happy another human being
has been rendered deaf?

Michael

 

[Radium]

Ken wrote:

The short answer is 100%. There are thousands of people born without
hearing who can now hear because of cochlear implants. I would expect
that the odds against an implant working on a random person would be
around 0.001% - negligible.

I can say, with some authority, that these people hear. A robin (or a
microwave or a car) chirps and they hear it! A piece of paper falls on
a table and they hear it. In fact a match falls on a table (or a cat
purrs) and it comes through loud and clear.

So in essence, anyone born without functioning hearing, given
expenditure of about $30k, can be given the ability to hear.

Expressed as above, maybe no big deal. But if they can hear an
approaching sparrow or a purring cat, they can also hear a car (or an
angry partner) which/who is about to hit them.

Um. I was talking of a case where the congenitally-deaf patient was
born without any cochlear nerves. So no cochlear implant will help this
patient. Whats the solution now?

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1167171704.928499.43440@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ken wrote:
The short answer is 100%. There are thousands of people born without
hearing who can now hear because of cochlear implants. I would expect
that the odds against an implant working on a random person would be
around 0.001% - negligible.

I can say, with some authority, that these people hear. A robin (or a
microwave or a car) chirps and they hear it! A piece of paper falls on
a table and they hear it. In fact a match falls on a table (or a cat
purrs) and it comes through loud and clear.

So in essence, anyone born without functioning hearing, given
expenditure of about $30k, can be given the ability to hear.

Expressed as above, maybe no big deal. But if they can hear an
approaching sparrow or a purring cat, they can also hear a car (or an
angry partner) which/who is about to hit them.

Um. I was talking of a case where the congenitally-deaf patient was
born without any cochlear nerves. So no cochlear implant will help this
patient. Whats the solution now?

One word.
Plastics.

Michael

 

[Radium]

Michael Ridenhour wrote:

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1167171704.928499.43440@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ken wrote:
The short answer is 100%. There are thousands of people born without
hearing who can now hear because of cochlear implants. I would expect
that the odds against an implant working on a random person would be
around 0.001% - negligible.

I can say, with some authority, that these people hear. A robin (or a
microwave or a car) chirps and they hear it! A piece of paper falls on
a table and they hear it. In fact a match falls on a table (or a cat
purrs) and it comes through loud and clear.

So in essence, anyone born without functioning hearing, given
expenditure of about $30k, can be given the ability to hear.

Expressed as above, maybe no big deal. But if they can hear an
approaching sparrow or a purring cat, they can also hear a car (or an
angry partner) which/who is about to hit them.

Um. I was talking of a case where the congenitally-deaf patient was
born without any cochlear nerves. So no cochlear implant will help this
patient. Whats the solution now?


One word.
Plastics.

Michael

I see. One solution is to prevent neuroplasticity from occuring. What
would be the disadvantages of such a solution?

 

[EOO]

"Michael Ridenhour" <ocie@medbush.net> wrote in message
news:Ctgkh.18916$Zd7.14261@newsfe13.lga...

"EOO" <whereeverforever.com> wrote in message
news:G9qdndJI_6qq3AzYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com...

"artis" <artis5@farscape.com> wrote in message
news:l1akh.27955$Rj.8490@newsfe19.lga...


I was under the impression that "America's paragon of virtue" was abusing
oxycotinin, a prescription
drug for pain, which they now attribute to causing his rapid hearing
loss. I remember when he was still losing his hearing, the doctors
thought is was an auto-immune condition but never saw one progress so
fast.




Your memory is incorrrect. Mr. Limbaugh, as many others, has a family
history of auto-immune disease. There is no way, short of post mortem
exam, to make such an accusation as you make, so you, nor does anyone
else, know the actual cause of his loss of hearing. Are you happy another
human being has been rendered deaf?

Michael

No my memory isn't incorrect. There was a discussion with a specialist in
the field ( I did not catch his name, nor do I remember the exact date) on
the radio concerning Mr. Limbaugh's condition and he was amazed how fast the
progression was. At the time they thought it was auto-immune.
Now there is reason to believe he did it to himself by abusing oxycotinin.
Mr. Limbaugh is an asshole about 2/3's of the day. The other 1/3 he is
probably asleep. During his waking hours he is busy conjuring up moral
judgments on just about everyone on the planet outside of the Republican
party.
I find it humorous that he got caught abusing prescription drugs. After
all, a good, moral Republican and Christian like your hero would never do
such a thing.
Nowhere did I mention I was happy about his hearing loss.

Now what else do you want to assume?

 

[ian.vitro]

I am not sure it would be possible for someone born with no cochlear
nerve to ever hear, unless an implant far beyond what we have now were
implanted very early in life - say during the first three years or so.
There is tons of evidence showing that acquisition of phoneme
distinction, the building block of comprehension, is established very
early in life. Again, like Hubel and Weisel`s Nobel-winning work shows,
pieces of cortex that do not get used for their "normal" function are
taken over by adjacent areas for increases in function. Limbaugh`s
observation is interesting, and suggests the same thing - you can hear
music that you know, because it is still in memoy and brains are very
good at pattern completion; but new music ends up being beyond you -
presumably because you lack the resolution to make out all of the
different frequencies.

Blocking neuroplasticity would be the worst thing you could ever do.
You would eliminate learning of any kind. Eliminate the ability of
brains to recover after strokes or other infarcts. You would, in
essence, block the thing that makes brains so bloody useful. Even Rush
Limbaugh`s (well, it`s useful to him!).

Ian Vitro

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"EOO" <whereeverforever.com> wrote in message
news:YvydnakKKaTwnA_YnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Michael Ridenhour" <ocie@medbush.net> wrote in message
news:Ctgkh.18916$Zd7.14261@newsfe13.lga...

"EOO" <whereeverforever.com> wrote in message
news:G9qdndJI_6qq3AzYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com...

"artis" <artis5@farscape.com> wrote in message
news:l1akh.27955$Rj.8490@newsfe19.lga...


I was under the impression that "America's paragon of virtue" was
abusing oxycotinin, a prescription
drug for pain, which they now attribute to causing his rapid hearing
loss. I remember when he was still losing his hearing, the doctors
thought is was an auto-immune condition but never saw one progress so
fast.




Your memory is incorrrect. Mr. Limbaugh, as many others, has a family
history of auto-immune disease. There is no way, short of post mortem
exam, to make such an accusation as you make, so you, nor does anyone
else, know the actual cause of his loss of hearing. Are you happy another
human being has been rendered deaf?

Michael

No my memory isn't incorrect. There was a discussion with a specialist in
the field ( I did not catch his name, nor do I remember the exact date) on
the radio concerning Mr. Limbaugh's condition and he was amazed how fast
the progression was. At the time they thought it was auto-immune.
Now there is reason to believe he did it to himself by abusing oxycotinin.
Mr. Limbaugh is an asshole about 2/3's of the day. The other 1/3 he is
probably asleep. During his waking hours he is busy conjuring up moral
judgments on just about everyone on the planet outside of the Republican
party.
I find it humorous that he got caught abusing prescription drugs. After
all, a good, moral Republican and Christian like your hero would never do
such a thing.
Nowhere did I mention I was happy about his hearing loss.

Now what else do you want to assume?

Odd. I never said this fellow was my hero. I just used information from the
Associated Press concerning his loss and my statement is a quote from one of
the physicians consulted by the AP.
You have a tremendous amount of hate in you sir.
Perhaps anger management might be in order?

Michael

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"ian.vitro" <ian.vitro@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167244701.782109.177080@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...

I am not sure it would be possible for someone born with no cochlear
nerve to ever hear, unless an implant far beyond what we have now were
implanted very early in life - say during the first three years or so.
There is tons of evidence showing that acquisition of phoneme
distinction, the building block of comprehension, is established very
early in life. Again, like Hubel and Weisel`s Nobel-winning work shows,
pieces of cortex that do not get used for their "normal" function are
taken over by adjacent areas for increases in function. Limbaugh`s
observation is interesting, and suggests the same thing - you can hear
music that you know, because it is still in memoy and brains are very
good at pattern completion; but new music ends up being beyond you -
presumably because you lack the resolution to make out all of the
different frequencies.

Blocking neuroplasticity would be the worst thing you could ever do.
You would eliminate learning of any kind. Eliminate the ability of
brains to recover after strokes or other infarcts. You would, in
essence, block the thing that makes brains so bloody useful. Even Rush
Limbaugh`s (well, it`s useful to him!).

Ian Vitro

Gosh, two slurs against Limbaugh. I'll have to start listening to his show.
To engender such a visceral response from people he must be quite
interesting.

Michael

 

[Radiosrfun]

"Michael Ridenhour" <ocie@medbush.net> wrote in message
news:iHAkh.30036$Rj.28844@newsfe19.lga...

"ian.vitro" <ian.vitro@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167244701.782109.177080@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I am not sure it would be possible for someone born with no cochlear
nerve to ever hear, unless an implant far beyond what we have now were
implanted very early in life - say during the first three years or so.
There is tons of evidence showing that acquisition of phoneme
distinction, the building block of comprehension, is established very
early in life. Again, like Hubel and Weisel`s Nobel-winning work shows,
pieces of cortex that do not get used for their "normal" function are
taken over by adjacent areas for increases in function. Limbaugh`s
observation is interesting, and suggests the same thing - you can hear
music that you know, because it is still in memoy and brains are very
good at pattern completion; but new music ends up being beyond you -
presumably because you lack the resolution to make out all of the
different frequencies.

Blocking neuroplasticity would be the worst thing you could ever do.
You would eliminate learning of any kind. Eliminate the ability of
brains to recover after strokes or other infarcts. You would, in
essence, block the thing that makes brains so bloody useful. Even Rush
Limbaugh`s (well, it`s useful to him!).

Ian Vitro


Gosh, two slurs against Limbaugh. I'll have to start listening to his
show. To engender such a visceral response from people he must be quite
interesting.

Michael

A good friend of mine used to listen to ole Rush almost religiously. I gave
the guy a chance. I found him to be a loud mouth - full of crap - self
centered - egotistical - ass. IF he can do better than those he opposes -
why then - doesn't he "run" for the job? Truth is, he like so many "talk
show" hosts - can talk a good game - but bottom line - don't have the balls
to try to make change. And THEN - to be caught doing drugs and oh gee - with
a bottle of Viagra or was it a "penis pump" - at the airport - THAT IS A
HOOT!!!!!!!!!! He just went to show - he is NOT any better than those he put
down - including any one calling in to his show to whom he opposed. It never
fails - those who place themselves above all others - ALWAYS fall - and fall
HARD. Ya got to love it!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Ridenhour wrote:

Gosh, two slurs against Limbaugh. I'll have to start listening to his show.
To engender such a visceral response from people he must be quite
interesting.

Michael

Only to people with no life, or desire to think for themselves. If
they could bottle his show it would put the sleeping pill companies out
of business. The test pattern at the old TV station I worked at was
more interesting.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lots of guys have served their country, including me.
Most don't brag about it.

Michael R.

 

[Steve B.]

Michael Ridenhour said:

Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lots of guys have served their country, including me.
Most don't brag about it.

You just did! Your point would have been made without "including me".

Steve = : ^ )

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

"Steve B." <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote in message
news:C1B95C51.843D2%pretty_good@every.thing...

Michael Ridenhour said:

Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lots of guys have served their country, including me.
Most don't brag about it.

You just did! Your point would have been made without "including me".

Steve = : ^ )

Right. That's why I said "lots of guys". There was no mention of the
braggart association being singular.
Nice catch.
You should be very proud of your fairness sensitivity.

Micghael R.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Ridenhour wrote:

Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lots of guys have served their country, including me.
Most don't brag about it.

Michael R.

It is there to remind a net stalker that he hasn't been able to have
my internet account closed, or stop my all volunteer project to help
very low income disabled Veterans receive a computer for free. We
collect, repair, and give away computers to these men and women in the
Central FLorida area. The stalker has made numerous phone calls from
Ontario, Oregon to a church that was listed as a drop-off point, and to
government agencies to try to get them to shut us down.

The other reason is that some newsgroups I visit are full of anti
American morons who delight in damning our military so its only fair to
warn them before I tear into their sorry asses.

It is not a brag, it is simple fact. I am old, 100% disabled, and
damn sick and tired of the crap I hear heaped on our troops.

You served? Good for you. What branch, and what did you do? I was a
broadcast engineer for AFRTS. No downtime allowed and no support, in a
hostile environment. I made some good friends, and saw places I never
would have traveled to.

BTW, I haven't seen the name Ridenhour since I graduated from high
school. Our dean of boys was named Dale Ridenhour.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael Ridenhour]

Michael,
My apologies to a fellow real veteran. I served 4 in the Air Force at TAC
Headquarters. I volunteered for war zone service (hey, I was young), but was
turned down 10 times because I was "critical". Nonsense of course, but DOD
policy. And the average life of a helicopter pilot in Viet Nam (where I was
hoping to go) was about 8 weeks. Sounded terribly exciting to me at 20.
My hats off to you and I'm sorry, I didn't realize the tag line had an
actual function.

Michael R.

BTW, where was Dale from? Missouri?


"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:45933C31.CD40D549@earthlink.net...

Michael Ridenhour wrote:

Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lots of guys have served their country, including me.
Most don't brag about it.

Michael R.


It is there to remind a net stalker that he hasn't been able to have
my internet account closed, or stop my all volunteer project to help
very low income disabled Veterans receive a computer for free. We
collect, repair, and give away computers to these men and women in the
Central FLorida area. The stalker has made numerous phone calls from
Ontario, Oregon to a church that was listed as a drop-off point, and to
government agencies to try to get them to shut us down.

The other reason is that some newsgroups I visit are full of anti
American morons who delight in damning our military so its only fair to
warn them before I tear into their sorry asses.

It is not a brag, it is simple fact. I am old, 100% disabled, and
damn sick and tired of the crap I hear heaped on our troops.

You served? Good for you. What branch, and what did you do? I was a
broadcast engineer for AFRTS. No downtime allowed and no support, in a
hostile environment. I made some good friends, and saw places I never
would have traveled to.

BTW, I haven't seen the name Ridenhour since I graduated from high
school. Our dean of boys was named Dale Ridenhour.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Ridenhour wrote:

Michael,
My apologies to a fellow real veteran. I served 4 in the Air Force at TAC
Headquarters. I volunteered for war zone service (hey, I was young), but was
turned down 10 times because I was "critical". Nonsense of course, but DOD
policy. And the average life of a helicopter pilot in Viet Nam (where I was
hoping to go) was about 8 weeks. Sounded terribly exciting to me at 20.

I also worked on the "Weather Vision" system at Ft. Rucker, Al. in
the early '70s, for the helicopter flight and air traffic control
schools. It was at Cairn Airfield, about five miles from the main base.

My hats off to you and I'm sorry, I didn't realize the tag line had an
actual function.

No problem. There are a very high number of Veterans in my area, and
we are quite involved in the community. While online, I want others to
know that US Veterans have nothing to be ashamed of. I also had some
drunken moron claim that I had never served, then claimed that I wasn't
a veteran because I never saw combat. Current numbers show that only
one out of seven who serve in the military ever see combat, but many die
from accidents and never saw a battlefield.

BTW, where was Dale from? Missouri?

Monroe, Ohio.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida