Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 5

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

Remove the baseboard trim (skirting board??), and mill a grove for the
flat or round wire behind it. The problem is that there's a danger of
someone pounding a brad or staple into the baseboard trim, and hitting
the cable.

It's really a pity that I can't find CAT5 with only two pairs of wires
in the cable. It would be about 66% of the diameter of the common
four pair CAT5.

You could also lift the carpet and route a shallow grove into the
plywood subfloor for the flat CAT5 cable. Subfloors are 0.75" to
1.25" thick. 0.100 isn't going to weaken the flooring. Glue in place
with hot melt glue. Fill the grove and cover with Fixall. Reinstall
carpet with a carpet kicker. (I haven't tried this but it should
work).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:38:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

It's really a pity that I can't find CAT5 with only two pairs of wires
in the cable. It would be about 66% of the diameter of the common
four pair CAT5.

If the client ever wanted Gigabit Ethernet to that island, they'd be
out of luck.

 

[micky]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:44:15 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 10:07:38 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

The thinner you try and make the cable the greater the corners you
have to cut. But which of these do you reduce?
The sheath is important where (super)flat cable is to be run under
carpet, as is the conductor and insulation on each wire. No easy
answer.

Well, super flat uses #28 awg wire. Commodity CAT5 is #24 awg. CAT6
is #23 awg. The #28 awg isn't a problem unless you need to replace
the crimp on connector ends, or you need to run DC power through the
cable.

I've tried using flat (not super-flat) CAT5 under carpets. The stuff
rolls over as the rug moves and eventually creates a lump. Carpet

I meant to say that one of those three companies I looked at said the
flat stuff had removeable edges, that could be used to staple the wire
to the floor. I'll check which brand said that if you want me too.

tape helps, but it still doesn't last. I recently received some flat
cable designed specifically for under the carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/ENG/1499119-Customer_Drawing-RevE.pdf
Note that it's #24 awg wire, which means it uses standard connectors.
I'll be replacing the lumpy CAT5 shortly and expect it to work better.
Note that I have to notch the wings in order to make a turn.

Tyco/Amp's catalog for under carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/UC_Comm_System_Booklet_Rev3.pdf

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 01:03:29 -0600, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:38:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

It's really a pity that I can't find CAT5 with only two pairs of wires
in the cable. It would be about 66% of the diameter of the common
four pair CAT5.

If the client ever wanted Gigabit Ethernet to that island, they'd be
out of luck.

True. The choice is fat cable, flat cable, or living with 100baseT.
If the kitchen island computer is for grabbing recipies, then 100baseT
should be adequate.

I'm wondering how the "island" is getting its AC power. Whatever
route was used, might be paralleled with a network cable or conduit.
If the floor is poured concrete, it's not going to happen. However,
if it does have AC power, then perhaps a power line network (HomePlug)
might be an easier fix. (Yeah, it's slow). If money is of no
concern, just run fiber under the carpet, add two expensive media
converters at each end, and be done with it.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[who where]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:38:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

Remove the baseboard trim (skirting board??), and mill a grove for the
flat or round wire behind it.

The target is an island section, so that won't achieve anything.

You could also lift the carpet and route a shallow grove into the
plywood subfloor for the flat CAT5 cable. Subfloors are 0.75" to
1.25" thick. 0.100 isn't going to weaken the flooring.

Just to clarify, the building construction is brick on concrete floor
slab. Power to the island section is via conduit through the slab.
You guys obviously use different construction materials/ methods ;-)

The option with the least impact was superflat under the carpet's foam
underlay. There had been serious thought to chasing a conduit down
the wall but that would have been both disruptive to the workstation
and $$$. There was but a passing mention of EoP.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:44:54 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

Just to clarify, the building construction is brick on concrete floor
slab. Power to the island section is via conduit through the slab.
You guys obviously use different construction materials/ methods ;-)

I live in a forest, where houses tend to made from wood. The big tree
roots tend to make houses move around, so concrete slab foundations
are not very popular (except when they can located on a sand pile).

Yeah, notching the concrete floor isn't going to work. Sorry(tm).

The option with the least impact was superflat under the carpet's foam
underlay. There had been serious thought to chasing a conduit down
the wall but that would have been both disruptive to the workstation
and $$$. There was but a passing mention of EoP.

Going through the foam pad under the carpet will work. If thick
enough, you might be able to use real CAT5.

What's EoP? Ethernet over Plumbing? If you can run fiber optic cable
throught the sewers, you might be able to run fiber through the drains
or water pipes. The fiber is easy, but the fiber to ethernet media
converters are expensive.

If the island has power, you might consider power line networking
(HomePlug).

Another possible is Multimedia over Coax:
<http://www.mocalliance.org>
Instead of the common RG-6a/u coax cable, use some really thin coax,
such as RG-179b/u coax (0.100" OD). Use MoCA bridges on each side of
the coax run. Or, if you can live with only 10Mbits/sec, use 50 ohm
coax, such as RG-174/u (0.100" OD) and an old 10base2 hub as a media
converter.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[who where]

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 20:14:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:44:54 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

Just to clarify, the building construction is brick on concrete floor
slab. Power to the island section is via conduit through the slab.
You guys obviously use different construction materials/ methods ;-)

I live in a forest, where houses tend to made from wood. The big tree
roots tend to make houses move around, so concrete slab foundations
are not very popular (except when they can located on a sand pile).

This is in suburbia, where the norm (at least here) is slab on
compacted sand. If big tree roots cause a problem, that is the
owner's concern, but practically none of the indigenous species cause
this type of problem. The fig family of course is another story.

Yeah, notching the concrete floor isn't going to work. Sorry(tm).

The option with the least impact was superflat under the carpet's foam
underlay. There had been serious thought to chasing a conduit down
the wall but that would have been both disruptive to the workstation
and $$$. There was but a passing mention of EoP.

Going through the foam pad under the carpet will work. If thick
enough, you might be able to use real CAT5.

The foam is a Bridgestone product. It starts life around 1cm thick
but compresses down with use to probably 4mm. Ratjher than trying to
notch/groove it, going under it is a lot less work and the result -
apart from being undetectable - is very well protected even against
wheeled/dragged loads which can ripple the carpet.

What's EoP? Ethernet over Plumbing?

Ethernet over power. "Reverse" of PoE.

If you can run fiber optic cable
throught the sewers, you might be able to run fiber through the drains
or water pipes. The fiber is easy, but the fiber to ethernet media
converters are expensive.

If the island has power, you might consider power line networking
(HomePlug).

See EoP above. But no services other than AC power.

Another possible is Multimedia over Coax:
http://www.mocalliance.org
Instead of the common RG-6a/u coax cable, use some really thin coax,
such as RG-179b/u coax (0.100" OD). Use MoCA bridges on each side of
the coax run. Or, if you can live with only 10Mbits/sec, use 50 ohm
coax, such as RG-174/u (0.100" OD) and an old 10base2 hub as a media
converter.

There's plenty of 10base2 stuff available, but the speed compromise
compared to Cat5E and the simplicity of the flat-cat would have ruled
it out had we even considered it.

But yes, there a multitude of ways to skin that cat (ouch!) Superflat
Cat5/5E under the carpet works best in terms of speed and cost.

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <pos6f7dhcp0i9qfl2l15oejhv6l1ijnh6l@4ax.com>, micky
<NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes

Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 50 feet?
Or do I need thicker wire?

The short answer is 'probably'. After all, if you are on an old type of

phone system, a twin wire phone line has brought the DSL signal all the
way from the exchange to your house. Another 50 feet isn't really going
to make a lot of difference.
--
Ian

 

[micky]

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:37:51 +0000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <pos6f7dhcp0i9qfl2l15oejhv6l1ijnh6l@4ax.com>, micky
NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes
Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 50 feet?
Or do I need thicker wire?

The short answer is 'probably'. After all, if you are on an old type of
phone system, a twin wire phone line has brought the DSL signal all the
way from the exchange to your house. Another 50 feet isn't really going
to make a lot of difference.

Apparently the problem wasn't the twin wire, but the thin wire.
Replacing it with round four-conductor 4-color wire (using only 2 of
them) , (that I got out of the trash 20 or 30 years ago) actually a
piece 10 or 20 feet longer than I took out, more than tripled my
download speed.

The Verizon guy had told me that the special under the carpet (but not
Cat-5, just wire) 4-conductor wire was no good.

I taped the space around the window, and II still haven't bought the
flat CAT-5 for some reason.

P&M