Why Won't a Frozen Battery Start a Vehicle.

[Denny B]

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
Chemically something is happening inside the battery.
Is it the electrolyte that freezes and chemically do what
it should do? Does something happen to the lead plates?
Does the 12 volts drop to a lower voltage? Does the current
output of the battery drop?

The cold is doing something to the battery What Is That
Something?
Well informed auto mechanics please step up to the plate!

I do not need to start my vehicle my spare battery connected
in parallel with the frozen battery does that.

If your frozen battery won't start your vehicle and you remove
it and take it indoors and let it heat up to house temperature,
after reinstall it on the vehicle' it will then start the vehicle.

What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

Denny B

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Denny B wrote:

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
Chemically something is happening inside the battery.
Is it the electrolyte that freezes and chemically do what
it should do? Does something happen to the lead plates?
Does the 12 volts drop to a lower voltage? Does the current
output of the battery drop?

The cold is doing something to the battery What Is That
Something?
Well informed auto mechanics please step up to the plate!

I do not need to start my vehicle my spare battery connected
in parallel with the frozen battery does that.

If your frozen battery won't start your vehicle and you remove
it and take it indoors and let it heat up to house temperature,
after reinstall it on the vehicle' it will then start the vehicle.

What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

Denny B

Do yourself a favor and buy a battery blanket before the battery
freezes hard and splits the case.

--
We now return you to our normally scheduled programming.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Dennis Olsson]

I am very not an expert, but I can tell you what I know (or... think I
know).

1) The battery is in perfect condition when frozen, unless the ice has
destroyed it.

2) When you put a huge load on a cold battery, the voltage will sink. The
internal resistance has become very high. My theory is that there is ice
crystals at the plates inside the battery, so therefore the 'active
surface' is very small, compared to normal conditions.

I recently found a battery with one frozen cell. I took it inside the
house and tried to put a load of about 1 A (12 W) on it. The voltage
dropped from 12+ to about 3-4 V instantly. As the hours went the battery
got less and less cold, and after about 8 hrs, when I connected the load
again, the voltage dropped by tenths of a volt.

Where I live, the temperature sometimes goes below -40C, but there is no
problem starting the cars. You should check the acid inside the battery
(there are meters for that). Also.. it might be the oil and water inside
the engine that makes it much much heavier to move around, and therefore
the starter + the weak battery can't do it. Try an engine heater ;o)

BR
Dennis Olsson

A battery that is
perfectly good why when it is -30C > won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
Chemically something is happening inside the battery.
Is it the electrolyte that freezes and chemically do what
it should do? Does something happen to the lead plates?
Does the 12 volts drop to a lower voltage? Does the current
output of the battery drop?

The cold is doing something to the battery What Is That
Something?
Well informed auto mechanics please step up to the plate!

I do not need to start my vehicle my spare battery connected
in parallel with the frozen battery does that.

If your frozen battery won't start your vehicle and you remove
it and take it indoors and let it heat up to house temperature,
after reinstall it on the vehicle' it will then start the vehicle.

What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

Denny B

 

[Harry Conover]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<4019FFF3.656335BE@earthlink.net>...

Denny B wrote:

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.

Storage battery output decreases with decreasing temperature. That's
why here in the US rated battery peak current capacity is generally
cited at 0F. Below that temperature capacity falls off rather quickly,
and by the time that the battery temperature reachesst the freezing
point of the electrolyte, the battery's output is virtually zip!

For what it's worth, a fully charged battery freezes at a lower
temperature than a partially charged battery. Also, if the battery
electrolyte does freeze, it will likely split the case and ruin the
battery.

If you're dealing with temperatures approaching -30C, the solution is
to place an electrically heated thermal blanket around the battery,
plus continuouly trickle charge it. At these temperatures, you're also
going to need a block heater to warm the engine block, else if it does
start the lack of lubrication will destroy it in only a few minites.

Harry C.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Harry Conover wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<4019FFF3.656335BE@earthlink.net>...
Denny B wrote:

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.

Storage battery output decreases with decreasing temperature. That's
why here in the US rated battery peak current capacity is generally
cited at 0F. Below that temperature capacity falls off rather quickly,
and by the time that the battery temperature reachesst the freezing
point of the electrolyte, the battery's output is virtually zip!

For what it's worth, a fully charged battery freezes at a lower
temperature than a partially charged battery. Also, if the battery
electrolyte does freeze, it will likely split the case and ruin the
battery.

If you're dealing with temperatures approaching -30C, the solution is
to place an electrically heated thermal blanket around the battery,
plus continuouly trickle charge it. At these temperatures, you're also
going to need a block heater to warm the engine block, else if it does
start the lack of lubrication will destroy it in only a few minites.

Harry C.

You snipped the part where I recommend the battery blanket. I learned
this first hand at Ft Greely, Ak. which was he US Army cold weather test
site in the early '70s. Nothing would start without a heated dipstick, a
battery blanket, and a lower radiator heater hose, if the engine was
water cooled. The 90 weight oil in the rear end and manual transmissions
was replaced with 30 weight for the colder months, and each vehicle was
allocated a separate 20 A 120 VAC circuit for the heaters. It was so
cold that some vehicles still had to be towed to a heated garage for a
couple hours before they would start, even though all the heaters were
in use.

--
We now return you to our normally scheduled programming.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[CWatters]

This graph says it all.....

http://voltaicpower.com/Batteries/high-disch-temp.htm

Capacity at high current is down to 10% of rated capacity at -30.

"Denny B" <dmrbaptie@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:qtjSb.477$Ps4.3511@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
Chemically something is happening inside the battery.
Is it the electrolyte that freezes and chemically do what
it should do? Does something happen to the lead plates?
Does the 12 volts drop to a lower voltage? Does the current
output of the battery drop?

The cold is doing something to the battery What Is That
Something?
Well informed auto mechanics please step up to the plate!

I do not need to start my vehicle my spare battery connected
in parallel with the frozen battery does that.

If your frozen battery won't start your vehicle and you remove
it and take it indoors and let it heat up to house temperature,
after reinstall it on the vehicle' it will then start the vehicle.

What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

Denny B

 

[Al]

In article <iYNSb.1099$6p2.172137@phobos.telenet-ops.be>,
"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote:

This graph says it all.....

http://voltaicpower.com/Batteries/high-disch-temp.htm

Capacity at high current is down to 10% of rated capacity at -30.

"Denny B" <dmrbaptie@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:qtjSb.477$Ps4.3511@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
Chemically something is happening inside the battery.
Is it the electrolyte that freezes and chemically do what
it should do? Does something happen to the lead plates?
Does the 12 volts drop to a lower voltage? Does the current
output of the battery drop?

The cold is doing something to the battery What Is That
Something?
Well informed auto mechanics please step up to the plate!

I do not need to start my vehicle my spare battery connected
in parallel with the frozen battery does that.

If your frozen battery won't start your vehicle and you remove
it and take it indoors and let it heat up to house temperature,
after reinstall it on the vehicle' it will then start the vehicle.

What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

Denny B

When I lived in Montana, the temp. would routinely drop to -30F. I kept
a spare battery in my kitchen under trickle charge. I would take it out
with me and jump start my car and then bring the battery back.

Yes, I had to go out and start the car every 3 hrs or so while at work.
I didn't worry about antifreeze as I drove a '66 Corvair.

Al

--
There's never enough time to do it right the first time.......

 

[Wim Lewis]

In article <qtjSb.477$Ps4.3511@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
Denny B <dmrbaptie@sprint.ca> wrote:

A battery that is perfectly good why when it is -30C
won't it start a vehicle.
Please note we are referring to a perfectly good battery
and a totally functioning car.
What is happening to the battery that it cannot crank
the starter fast enough.
[...]
What is happening to the battery internally at -30C?

A battery is a chemical device. All chemistry happens slower at lower
temperatures --- the molecules are moving slower, and they have less energy
to overcome potential barriers.

The energy that a battery stores is stored in the bulk electrolyte,
but the chemical reaction which extracts that energy only happens
on the surface of the plates (where the electrolyte and the electrode
come together, naturally). After a particular molecule of battery
acid gives up its energy as electricity, it needs to diffuse away
from the plate, and a fresh one needs to diffuse in. The speed at
which things diffuse is dependent on the temperature. So if the
battery is cold and you're drawing a lot of current, you can end
up with a thin layer of discharged electrolyte next to the plate,
even if most of the battery is charged. If you wait a few moments,
the electrolyte will even out, and the battery will appear to recharge
itself.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a battery expert, but the above is what I've been
told, and it seems to explain the observed behavior of batteries.)

--
Wim Lewis <wiml@hhhh.org>, Seattle, WA, USA. PGP keyID 27F772C1