Why is an EV\'s backup power less than it\'s driving power?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:46:28 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:26:21 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:04:57 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:27:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:23:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:35:58 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:00:23 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
10 kW is around 42 amps. So I can see a 10 kW inverter being much more expensive than $500. If you think you can make and sell them at a profit, for $500, you need to go into that business!

A grand actually. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193572450281

LOL!!! Anyone who would wire that Chinese junk to their car OR their house is an idiot! Maybe Ed Lee is up for the job?
Absolutely, i got a 3kW 48V to 220V for $99. 10kW for $999 is too expensive.

Yes, Ed Lee, the king of living cheap. Not the guy I would take advice from on this topic. We\'ll see how long it is before you manage to burn up your Leaf... a leaf fire.
You\'ve just admitted you\'re an ignorant money wasting resource wasting upper class twit. You\'re the sort that will die off because you can\'t do anything with limited resources.

Translated into English, that means I won\'t put my car and the people who ride in it in danger of being immolated by excessive frugality.

It\'s kinda funny, Larkin accuses me of being compulsively cheap and Commander Kinky says I\'m too much the spendthrift to survive. LOL

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

STOP FUCKING ABOUT WITH THE NEWSGROUPS! This belongs in THREE newsgroups. People who do not subscribe to your group are in the conversation you utterly selfish prick. Stop wasting my time adding them back in!!!!

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.

Of course the rest of us know how to do that. It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch. But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.

--

Rick C.

++--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!

--

Rick C.

++--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:53:15 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.

Of course the rest of us know how to do that.

And therefore realise it shouldn\'t add much to the cost.

> It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch.

You could, depends how automated you want your house to be.

> But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

Easy enough to add your own connector forpoutput, and easy enough to plug both in when you get home.

> This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.

Absolute and utter bullshit in the extreme, this is a very simple thing to do, and anyone with basic electrical knowledge can do it themselves. It\'s as easy as fitting a solar panel system.

STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!

Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 9:53:20 AM UTC-8, Ricky wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected.. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.
Of course the rest of us know how to do that. It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch. But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.

Just a little bit. You don\'t need to have another smart home unit, but you do need to sample/test the grid voltage, freq and phase before injecting energy into the grid. The Leaf can handle it physically, but still need custom software (never released by Nissan) to do it. There were only a few private test/demo projects.

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:00:24 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:53:15 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.

Of course the rest of us know how to do that.
And therefore realise it shouldn\'t add much to the cost.
It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch.
You could, depends how automated you want your house to be.

It\'s not about automation. It\'s about safety and using one connection to charge your car and use V2H. I suppose you are the same sort as Ed Lee and want to hack into your BEV. While there is a right to repair movement that I support, it does not include idiots trying to install equipment they don\'t understand.

But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.
Easy enough to add your own connector forpoutput, and easy enough to plug both in when you get home.

LOL! Yes, by all means install a second connector to your car for V2H. I\'d love to see the complexity in your design, added to not install an automatic mains disconnect switch.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.
Absolute and utter bullshit in the extreme, this is a very simple thing to do, and anyone with basic electrical knowledge can do it themselves. It\'s as easy as fitting a solar panel system.

This why you work at Burger King and not as an electrical engineer.


> STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok

--

Rick C.

++-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It\'s a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.


> STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok

--

Rick C.

++-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:48:59 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:00:24 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:53:15 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.

Of course the rest of us know how to do that.
And therefore realise it shouldn\'t add much to the cost.
It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch.
You could, depends how automated you want your house to be.

It\'s not about automation. It\'s about safety and using one connection to charge your car and use V2H. I suppose you are the same sort as Ed Lee and want to hack into your BEV. While there is a right to repair movement that I support, it does not include idiots trying to install equipment they don\'t understand.

It\'s not rocket science to take a 400V battery and make 240V AC out of it.

But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.
Easy enough to add your own connector forpoutput, and easy enough to plug both in when you get home.

LOL! Yes, by all means install a second connector to your car for V2H. I\'d love to see the complexity in your design, added to not install an automatic mains disconnect switch.

I already explained the relay to you.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.
Absolute and utter bullshit in the extreme, this is a very simple thing to do, and anyone with basic electrical knowledge can do it themselves. It\'s as easy as fitting a solar panel system.

This why you work at Burger King and not as an electrical engineer.

I have never worked at such a place. Why can\'t people make their own food?

By the way, I did install my own solar system. Sold the panels to someone going to Africa, since there isn\'t any fucking sun here.

STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok

You failed. Grow up.

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:24:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 9:53:20 AM UTC-8, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail..com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.
Of course the rest of us know how to do that. It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch. But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.
Just a little bit. You don\'t need to have another smart home unit, but you do need to sample/test the grid voltage, freq and phase before injecting energy into the grid. The Leaf can handle it physically, but still need custom software (never released by Nissan) to do it. There were only a few private test/demo projects.

You are talking about V2G. This is about V2H. The issue is not aligning with the power in the line. The issue is the power from the car must be prevented from reaching the line. When the line is damaged, people need to work on it with no power in it for safety. So all V2H must be cut off from the grid and automatic generation of power to the home requires automatic disconnection from the grid.

--

Rick C.

+++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It\'s a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.

Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.

STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok

3rd last warning.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:55:14 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:24:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 9:53:20 AM UTC-8, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.
Of course the rest of us know how to do that. It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch. But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.
Just a little bit. You don\'t need to have another smart home unit, but you do need to sample/test the grid voltage, freq and phase before injecting energy into the grid. The Leaf can handle it physically, but still need custom software (never released by Nissan) to do it. There were only a few private test/demo projects.

You are talking about V2G. This is about V2H. The issue is not aligning with the power in the line. The issue is the power from the car must be prevented from reaching the line.

Easy, use the relay I mentioned.

> When the line is damaged, people need to work on it with no power in it for safety. So all V2H must be cut off from the grid and automatic generation of power to the home requires automatic disconnection from the grid.

Awwwww, you care about workers nothing to do with you. You fucking pathetic humanitarian.

Any sensible electrician working on the line will not assume there is no power there.

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:06:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It\'s a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.
Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.

Who cares??? There are any number of idiots in the world. You seem proud to count yourself among them.

STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok
3rd last warning.

OK

--

Rick C.

+++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:08:18 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:55:14 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:24:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 9:53:20 AM UTC-8, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:29:09 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:08:51 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 14:35:51 -0000, trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:30:22 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:07:34 -0000, Dean Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:27:45 AM UTC-6, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If an EV has an output power of say 80kW to drive the motors when driving, why is the backup power (to power your house in a power outage) only about 10kW? It\'s the same battery!

And why do people say it costs thousands of dollars to fit something to do this? Surely a 10kW invertor doesn\'t cost much, just something to make 400VDC into 240VAC. I\'d say more like 500 dollars.

One requirement is a power transfer switch.
That\'s only for convenience.

Wrong again. In the US it\'s a code requirement. I can\'t imagine it\'s not the same
in any civilized country, for very obvious reasons.

Nobody checks that shit, just fit it. You can have a manual switch which will obviously do the same job. In the UK technically it\'s illegal for me to fit a new 13A outlet. WTF?!

A typical installation would switch to backup mode automatically, so the switch needs to be automatic. But it might be acceptable to use a manual switch if the connection were manual as well. But the transfer switch would be wired so the V2H were not connected unless the grid were disconnected. This could not be done through the regular charging connection as commercial units would do.
It\'s very easy actually, and I\'m about to make my own UPS cheaply doing that very thing. And had a similar arrangement when I had my own solar system.

You get a 240V-coil relay and power the coil from the grid. So the contacts move according to if the grid has power.
One contact switches on the invertor.
The other contact moves the load to the grid or the invertor output. Since that contact cannot be in two places at once, the inverter output can never go to the grid.
Of course the rest of us know how to do that. It was you saying it was not needed and you could install a manual switch. But this arrangement precludes using the same connection point for the V2H as is used for charging. I believe the Chademo connection in the Nissan Leaf handles both. They probably have a protocol in the interface that communicates with a smart home unit that precludes operation of the V2H unless the grid is disconnected from the house.

This is not an area that is appropriate for home brew crap and it very likely requires any such device be tested and registered. I bet this is one area, that Ed Lee is knowledgeable in.
Just a little bit. You don\'t need to have another smart home unit, but you do need to sample/test the grid voltage, freq and phase before injecting energy into the grid. The Leaf can handle it physically, but still need custom software (never released by Nissan) to do it. There were only a few private test/demo projects.

You are talking about V2G. This is about V2H. The issue is not aligning with the power in the line. The issue is the power from the car must be prevented from reaching the line.
Easy, use the relay I mentioned.
When the line is damaged, people need to work on it with no power in it for safety. So all V2H must be cut off from the grid and automatic generation of power to the home requires automatic disconnection from the grid.
Awwwww, you care about workers nothing to do with you. You fucking pathetic humanitarian.

Any sensible electrician working on the line will not assume there is no power there.

No, but they will have to visit every home fed by that line in order to get the V2H shut off. Or they may identify the home responsible and pull the meter, returning to reconnect some day in the future, long after the car battery is depleted.

What\'s really scary about home brew installations, is that some yo-yo would have installed the cutover switch the wrong way, never having it inspected (sounds like YOU) and turn the system on after the line workers had found the line safe and started working on it.

This is why we have laws, to protect the rest of us from morons like YOU.

--

Rick C.

++++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:32:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:06:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It\'s a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.
Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.

Who cares??? There are any number of idiots in the world. You seem proud to count yourself among them.


STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok
3rd last warning.

OK

Fuck the warnings. Killfile it is. You clearly don\'t understand usenet.

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:47:09 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 19:32:44 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 3:06:37 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:50:53 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:02:04 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:55:55 -0000, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Anybody who puts safety above expenditure is pathetic.

OMG! This is now preserved for all time!
Were you bullied at school? You really are pathetic. Why do you feel the need to be safe? Don\'t tell me, you actually wear a cycle helmet and a use a seatbelt, just in case....

Yes, I wear seatbelts. They have saved many, many lives. It\'s a shame that the Darwin impact of seatbelts are not more direct and effective.
Just before the seatbelt law was introduced in the UK, only ONE THIRD of all drivers wore them. Therefore you are in a minority.

Who cares??? There are any number of idiots in the world. You seem proud to count yourself among them.


STOP EDITING THE FUCKING NEWSGROUPS YOU UTTERLY PATHETIC TROLL.

Ok
3rd last warning.

OK
Fuck the warnings. Killfile it is. You clearly don\'t understand usenet.

I will mark this day in my calendar. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

--

Rick C.

+++++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209