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Power oversteer is fun. If you can't drive, get a little-old-lady fwdJohn Larkin wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Wasn't the Austin Allegro the worst car of all time?
Further response. The Allegro was the successor of the Austin/Morris/MG
1100/1300.
I think the US version was the Austin America. I has a friend who had
one. It had the Midget 1100 engine, transverse, transaxle, front-wheel
drive, hatchback, all radical in those days. Its layout was the model
for most modern cars. But they dropped the ball on quality and
innovation.
Yup. Sounds spot on.
I drove an MG or Austin GT 1300 down to the 'west country' once when a friend
kindly lent me one in return for a delivery job. I was totally converterted to
FWD when handling it in the snow. It was so good. Passers by looked at us in
astonishment as if to say how can you drive in this ?
Now try a Saab ! They *race* them in the snow !
I've driven them, and they're OK but nothing radical. BMW's feel good
to me.
But spin off the road fatally at the least provocation from an inexperienced
driver.
If you INSIST in living in cities then how do you plan to get around townFace it dude : The ICE is responsible for the majority of air pollution in
all cities around the world.
CLASSIC ! Another keeper.z <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote:
Nobody ever thinks about what happens when we run out of electrons. We
may have passed peak electrons already.
Which reminds me:
"Johnny, do photons have mass?"
"How should I know, teacher, I didn't even know they were Catholic"
---
So this cesium atom walks trudges into a bar and the bartender says:
"Why so glum?"
"I lost an electron." says the atom.
"Are you sure?" asks the bartender.
"I'm positive." the atom replies...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:36:41 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Wasn't the Austin Allegro the worst car of all time?
Further response. The Allegro was the successor of the Austin/Morris/MG
1100/1300.
I think the US version was the Austin America. I has a friend who had
one. It had the Midget 1100 engine, transverse, transaxle, front-wheel
drive, hatchback, all radical in those days. Its layout was the model
for most modern cars. But they dropped the ball on quality and
innovation.
Yup. Sounds spot on.
I drove an MG or Austin GT 1300 down to the 'west country' once when a friend
kindly lent me one in return for a delivery job. I was totally converterted to
FWD when handling it in the snow. It was so good. Passers by looked at us in
astonishment as if to say how can you drive in this ?
Now try a Saab ! They *race* them in the snow !
I've driven them, and they're OK but nothing radical. BMW's feel good
to me.
But spin off the road fatally at the least provocation from an inexperienced
driver.
Power oversteer is fun. If you can't drive, get a little-old-lady fwd
car that sorta goes where you point it.
John
good point. efficiency won't include running steam pipes along withOn Aug 19, 1:59 am, z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote:
On Aug 15, 5:09 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Daniel T." wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Sure, but where does the electricity come from?
Power plants that run at much higher efficiency
Not that great actually.
(and much cleaner per kilowatt of energy produced) than any automobile
engine
How do you reckon they're cleaner ?
could ever hope to do.
Overall thermal efficiency from typical power plant to power socket is in
the 30-40% region.
A very large marine diesel can and does EXCEED 50% thermal efficiency.. Only
now are combined cycle gas turbine generators coming on line that can beat
that but you still have transmission losses.
Graham
Little known fact; efficiency of electrical generation is currently
half of what it was in Edison's day. Well, it's a trick question,
though; Edison was businessman enough to sell off the heat as a
byproduct (isn't that what they call cogeneration?) but today
utilities, as monopolies, are too lazy too chase that efficiency/cash.
too bad for all of us.
Edison's DC power scheme had to make a virtue out of a necessity. For
his DC generators to supply loads, they had to be close to them.
Westinghouse's AC system supplied the entire Chicago World's Fair from
a single, central station. Edison would have needed to space 27
generator across the grounds to provide the same coverage(why he lost
the bid). With a DC electrical power system, you were within walking
distance of the power station that supplied your home. Without fancy
power electronics to create buck/boost convertors, the voltage at your
socket was the generator terminal voltage, less ohmic drops in the
transmission line.
Edison could sell you the waste heat from his steam turbines (you hope
they were turbines, reciprocating pistons could be felt for hundreds
of yards through the soles of your feet), but NIMBYism meant no power
connection. Westinghouse could supply your house from halfway across
the continent. I am sure that there are utilities in large cities
that supply heat and light, in the core areas, but the return is too
small to lay the pipes in areas of low density housing.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
---John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:36:41 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Wasn't the Austin Allegro the worst car of all time?
Further response. The Allegro was the successor of the Austin/Morris/MG
1100/1300.
I think the US version was the Austin America. I has a friend who had
one. It had the Midget 1100 engine, transverse, transaxle, front-wheel
drive, hatchback, all radical in those days. Its layout was the model
for most modern cars. But they dropped the ball on quality and
innovation.
Yup. Sounds spot on.
I drove an MG or Austin GT 1300 down to the 'west country' once when a friend
kindly lent me one in return for a delivery job. I was totally converterted to
FWD when handling it in the snow. It was so good. Passers by looked at us in
astonishment as if to say how can you drive in this ?
Now try a Saab ! They *race* them in the snow !
I've driven them, and they're OK but nothing radical. BMW's feel good
to me.
But spin off the road fatally at the least provocation from an inexperienced
driver.
Power oversteer is fun. If you can't drive, get a little-old-lady fwd
car that sorta goes where you point it.
John
All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
I dunno.
What with the intrusion of the Bret Cahill and Rod Speed slugs and his
responses to their crap I'd say, deep down, he's OK.
Maybe we should cut him a little slack?
It's SAFE ! AND handles better in adverse conditions.Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Wasn't the Austin Allegro the worst car of all time?
Further response. The Allegro was the successor of the Austin/Morris/MG
1100/1300.
I think the US version was the Austin America. I has a friend who had
one. It had the Midget 1100 engine, transverse, transaxle, front-wheel
drive, hatchback, all radical in those days. Its layout was the model
for most modern cars. But they dropped the ball on quality and
innovation.
Yup. Sounds spot on.
I drove an MG or Austin GT 1300 down to the 'west country' once when a friend
kindly lent me one in return for a delivery job. I was totally converterted to
FWD when handling it in the snow. It was so good. Passers by looked at us in
astonishment as if to say how can you drive in this ?
Now try a Saab ! They *race* them in the snow !
I've driven them, and they're OK but nothing radical. BMW's feel good
to me.
But spin off the road fatally at the least provocation from an inexperienced
driver.
Power oversteer is fun. If you can't drive, get a little-old-lady fwd
car that sorta goes where you point it.
How would you like a posy ?All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
I appreciate your comments. I hope I've been smartening up a little recently. Long story."Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
---
I dunno.
What with the intrusion of the Bret Cahill and Rod Speed slugs and his
responses to their crap I'd say, deep down, he's OK.
Maybe we should cut him a little slack?
That's a real bugger.John Fields wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
I dunno.
What with the intrusion of the Bret Cahill and Rod Speed slugs and his
responses to their crap I'd say, deep down, he's OK.
Maybe we should cut him a little slack?
He'll be in my kill file for at least a few more months, along with
cahill and his mindless followers. Speed has been there through three
ISPs, and at least a half dozen computers. Just because there are
bigger offenders doesn't automatically make him good. Every time I have
to change my access to Usenet, the usual trolls end up in quarantine.
Now that I use Newsproxy it's easier to mange the changeovers. I no
longer have the patience to wade through their crap, and almost three
months after losing the use of my good eye to a palsy, nothing they have
to say is worth wading through. The doctors tell me it will be three
more months before they will even consider surgery, to attempt to repair
the damage to the muscles of that eye. My remaining eye has low
sensitivity to light, and is colorblind. It has no fine focus, and I've
had to reduce the screen resolution as much as I can, to see the text.
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:48AB561C.5F4D472F@hotmail.com...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
All Eeyore needs is a fancy little donkey cart. Maybe a nice pink
one, with flowers.
I dunno.
What with the intrusion of the Bret Cahill and Rod Speed slugs and his
responses to their crap I'd say, deep down, he's OK.
Maybe we should cut him a little slack?
He'll be in my kill file for at least a few more months, along with
cahill and his mindless followers. Speed has been there through three
ISPs, and at least a half dozen computers. Just because there are
bigger offenders doesn't automatically make him good. Every time I have
to change my access to Usenet, the usual trolls end up in quarantine.
Now that I use Newsproxy it's easier to mange the changeovers. I no
longer have the patience to wade through their crap, and almost three
months after losing the use of my good eye to a palsy, nothing they have
to say is worth wading through. The doctors tell me it will be three
more months before they will even consider surgery, to attempt to repair
the damage to the muscles of that eye. My remaining eye has low
sensitivity to light, and is colorblind. It has no fine focus, and I've
had to reduce the screen resolution as much as I can, to see the text.
That's a real bugger.
How did all this happen ?
You really want to know ?
It won in the highest number of gear shifts dept.internal combustion engines have that unfortunate torque curve which
forces you to have a much �bigger than necessary engine to compensate
for the fact that torque drops at stall instead of increasing. that
wouldn't be much of a problem for IC engines running at constant
speed, even for longhaul highway driving, but for what most of us do
with our cars, it's less than optimal.
Diesels are FAR better in this respect.
You can buy SPORT model diesels in Europe now. The torque gives them that
low end advantage.
UK driving programme Top Gear put a sport model Gasoline and diesel car of
the same model round their track and the diesel won.
then of course there's the preignition problem; no matter what you doz wrote:
internal combustion engines have that unfortunate torque curve which
forces you to have a much bigger than necessary engine to compensate
for the fact that torque drops at stall instead of increasing. that
wouldn't be much of a problem for IC engines running at constant
speed, even for longhaul highway driving, but for what most of us do
with our cars, it's less than optimal.
Diesels are FAR better in this respect.
You can buy SPORT model diesels in Europe now. The torque gives them that
low end advantage.
UK driving programme Top Gear put a sport model Gasoline and diesel car of
the same model round their track and the diesel won.
Graham
Pink salmon."Eeyore" wrote
Rob Dekker wrote:
"nurk" <nurk@nurk.com> wrote in message
ALL they actually did was rule that the current EPA legislation allows
the EPA to deal with SOME CO2 sources.
A different matter entirely.
Not just 'allow the EPA', but 'force the EPA' is what they decided.
There is a big difference.
I'm glad you have such faith in the courts.
That means Gore's film DOES contain lies and errors as determined by a
British Court.
Red herring
Generator efficiency 95%. Engine efficiency 50%. Combined 48%.RLDeboni <robertodeboni@deboni.name> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
RLDeboni <robertodeboni@deboni.name> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
RLDeboni <robertodeboni@deboni.name> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
RLDeboni <robertodeboni@deboni.name> wrote
In the example, the Power Station is powered with a MAN
5S50ME-C7 low speed engine (95 RPM, 3'800 kW power, 159 gr/kWh specific fuel oil consumption):
Thats irrelevant, hardly anyone is stupid enough to do a power station that way anymore.
It burns also natural gas (with some modifications) ...
If you're gunna power it with natural gas, you dont use that sort of engine either.
Why not ?
Because other approaches work a lot better.
50% efficiency is very good.
Not with natural gas powered power stations of any size.
Maybe 48%.
Thats not the number that matters with a POWER STATION.
The engine modification is used on LNG Carriers Ships.
Sure, but thats only part of what matters with a POWER STATION.
Why do you thing that a MAN 6S70ME-C engine (at 10 MW layout point)
could not keep such efficiency, fueled with natural gas ?
I didnt say anything even remotely resembling anything like that.
The problem is that you dont get anything like that 48% with a POWER
STATION for the overall efficiency from natural gas to electricity
Combined cycle ?and thats
the only thing that matters with a POWER STATION. There are other
ways to do a POWER STATION running on LNG that do a lot better.
For small plants like 5-10 MW, in the world they still build a Power
Station starting with e diesel engine.
Actually, combined cycle natural gas plants are approaching 60% now.Rod Speed wrote:
The problem is that you dont get anything like that 48% with a POWER
STATION for the overall efficiency from natural gas to electricity
Generator efficiency 95%. Engine efficiency 50%. Combined 48%.
Bad experiences with the old ones AIUI.Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
The Trucker wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Rob Dekker wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote
CO2 is not a pollutant.
That's not what the supreme court says :
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2007/04epa.php
Then they're BARKING MAD.
So what's causing the climate change? We see that the sunspot
correlation is crapola. Is the climate changing and the north pole
melting because we fart too much? Are you seeing something in coal that
you do not see in auto exhausts and can you formulate a correlation?
Particulates.
Sulphur content too.
Graham
I meant to say that. Really.
Before people "fix" gasoline-powered cars, which don't need fixing,
they should do something about diesels. Diesels are a serious
pollution problem.
In the EU, diesel cars now have cats and some at least have special particulates
traps which burn them off harmlessly AIUI from time to time. We have the
advantage too that we switched to 'clean diesel' some time ago, a process that
is only now taking place in the USA. Plus vehicle diesel engine design in Europe
has become highly advanced. Even 20 years ago I drove a mid-compact Peugeot >with
a 1.9 litre turbo diesel engine and it was quick. No slugggish acceleration
either.
We don't have many diesel cars here,
Same in the UK but that's because for some strange reason we don't have enough dieseland the new ones are clean. The
problem is trucks. In a lot of US highways, half of the traffic is big
trucks, which translated to most of the fuel burned. America runs on
diesel transport.
It's ironic that, until recently in many US cities, a major source of
dangerous particulates was public transport. Things look a little
better lately.
Diesel costs more than premium gasoline here lately.
I see you're unwilling to respond to a factual statement instead of an emotionalRob Dekker wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
Rob Dekker wrote:
Paris stifled by smog shroud :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1467515.stm
Too many ancient 2CVs I expect.
Los Angeles then. Modern cars, strictest emission standards in the world,
and no coal fired power plants in the area : "Los Angeles Most Polluted US
City, According To American Lung Association Report"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070501081737.htm
IIRC doesn't that have a particularly nasty thermal inversion layer that traps
the 'smog'.
Unfair comparison.