Why Copper

[haleem]

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

 

[jim dorey]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:07:25 -0600, haleem
<bu_humaid2@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote:

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

cheap, conductive, malleable, solderable. probably others will add
reasons, or change the order, heck aluminum's been used as conductors, but
it corrodes far easier than copper.

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[Art]

Probably because it had been discovered years earlier than many of the more
expensive, possible replacements. Also Copper Conductor hard wire cables
have been used many years before Printed Circuitry was even considered,
"just use the available product and make a way of mass producing it".
"jim dorey" <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
newspsof16qimfr5e9h@trebuchet...

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:07:25 -0600, haleem
bu_humaid2@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote:

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

cheap, conductive, malleable, solderable. probably others will add
reasons, or change the order, heck aluminum's been used as conductors, but
it corrodes far easier than copper.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:07:25 -0600,
bu_humaid2@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (haleem) wrote:

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

If you need to ask this question then I don't see a future for you in
electronics. Have you ever thought of doing some basic research on the
web, or even reading a few books from your library?

 

[mc]

Well... Gold and silver might be a bit better, but too expensive. You will
occasionally see copper with gold, silver, or tin plating on it. Tin
enhances solderability but by itself melts at too low a temperature.

Aluminum is a good conductor but not solderable. More importantly, aluminum
forms an *invisible* nonconductive coating as it oxidizes in air. With
copper, you can see the tarnishing happen, which is much better; you know
whether it's clean or not.

Iron and steel are harder to solder than copper.

 

[mc]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1SPAMEX@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
newsrvm41d6t1onihhn3u0p5fv4firlj0l3fa@4ax.com...

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:07:25 -0600,
bu_humaid2@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (haleem) wrote:

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

If you need to ask this question then I don't see a future for you in
electronics. Have you ever thought of doing some basic research on the
web, or even reading a few books from your library?

Is this forum only for questions that cannot be answered by library
research? I've been using it sporadically for about a decade and never knew
of that restriction.

If you don't want to answer a basic question, you don't have to.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
news:424aca3c$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

Well... Gold and silver might be a bit better, but too expensive. You
will
occasionally see copper with gold, silver, or tin plating on it. Tin
enhances solderability but by itself melts at too low a temperature.

Aluminum is a good conductor but not solderable.

Change that to solderable with difficulty. There are fluxes such as
fluoride fluxes that will make soldering to aluminum easy. I soldered a
piece of aluminum by sanding it and covering it with a layer of greasy
flux to prevent it from oxidizing. Then with a soldering iron that puts
out a lot of heat, the solder wets the aluminum like other metals.

More importantly, aluminum
forms an *invisible* nonconductive coating as it oxidizes in air.

If that were true, you could not test for conductivity with a DMM for
example. The layer is so thin that it poses little barrier to
electricity. As far as invisible, well, if the aluminum has been
exposed to air then it is a given that it has the oxide layer.

With
copper, you can see the tarnishing happen, which is much better; you
know
whether it's clean or not.

With aluminum, it's a given that it has the oxide layer.

Iron and steel are harder to solder than copper.

Again, it depends. On how thick the metal is, what lind of flux is
used, and of course, the solder, etc. Remember that the usual soldering
process is optimized for copper, so using it on a different metal may
not give as good a result.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
news:424b9b85$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1SPAMEX@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
newsrvm41d6t1onihhn3u0p5fv4firlj0l3fa@4ax.com...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:07:25 -0600,
bu_humaid2@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (haleem) wrote:

i have a question, why copper is used in stripboard instead of other
elements?

thanx

If you need to ask this question then I don't see a future for you
in
electronics. Have you ever thought of doing some basic research on
the
web, or even reading a few books from your library?

Is this forum only for questions that cannot be answered by library
research? I've been using it sporadically for about a decade and
never knew
of that restriction.

If you don't want to answer a basic question, you don't have to.

Yes, and if you don't like the question the luser asks, because it shows
that he did absolutely no reading up on it using the Web, then you can
rebuke the luser.

So there may not be a restriction, but you can certainly expect a rebuke
from others.

 

[jim dorey]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:04:44 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Again, it depends. On how thick the metal is, what lind of flux is
used, and of course, the solder, etc. Remember that the usual soldering
process is optimized for copper, so using it on a different metal may
not give as good a result.

and iron and steel are soldered all the time, in industry, in home shops,
no big problem, but it's called brazing, cause brass is used as the solder
i guess. the temps are quite high, so it's not really applicable to
electronics, but i suppose industrial cabling could use it.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

jim dorey wrote:

and iron and steel are soldered all the time, in industry, in home shops,
no big problem, but it's called brazing, cause brass is used as the solder
i guess. the temps are quite high, so it's not really applicable to
electronics, but i suppose industrial cabling could use it.

I ran into a problem where someone tried to fix a leak in t water
cooled TV transmitter by braising the brass fittings to the 2" copper
pipe. It was a real pain in the ass to salvage the brass fittings which
were long out of production. I had to cut the pipe off flush, then
carefully file away the braised areas before I could heat everything and
pry out the copper stubs. The brass parts were used to split the water
flow for different tubes and had been custom cast in the early '50s

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 15:00:26 GMT, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

jim dorey wrote:

and iron and steel are soldered all the time, in industry, in home shops,
no big problem, but it's called brazing, cause brass is used as the solder
i guess. the temps are quite high, so it's not really applicable to
electronics, but i suppose industrial cabling could use it.

Brazing is done with "hard" (silver) solder. It doesn't seem to have
anything to do directly with brass- the other meaning of "braze"
(decorate, make of, or make hard like brass) came from a different
word (OE "braes") according to AH4.

I ran into a problem where someone tried to fix a leak in t water
cooled TV transmitter by braising the brass fittings to the 2" copper
pipe. It was a real pain in the ass to salvage the brass fittings which
were long out of production. I had to cut the pipe off flush, then
carefully file away the braised areas before I could heat everything and
pry out the copper stubs. The brass parts were used to split the water
flow for different tubes and had been custom cast in the early '50s

BTW, "braising" is a cooking term- browning in fat, then simmering in
a bit of liquid. The root (OF "brese") is thought to be the same for
the two words.

Sounds like a real PITA to salvage the manifold. I imagine it would be
easy to have small leaks if you were not very careful.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"jim dorey" <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
newspsolkd1icfr5e9h@trebuchet...

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:04:44 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Again, it depends. On how thick the metal is, what lind of flux is
used, and of course, the solder, etc. Remember that the usual
soldering
process is optimized for copper, so using it on a different metal
may
not give as good a result.

and iron and steel are soldered all the time, in industry, in home
shops,
no big problem, but it's called brazing, cause brass is used as the
solder
i guess. the temps are quite high, so it's not really applicable to
electronics, but i suppose industrial cabling could use it.

Brazing isn't soldering because it doesn't use solder.

Long ago I watched a guy putting in a cathodic protection system. they
dug a 3 or 4 foot deep trench and drilled holes every so often along its
length. The holes each had a carbon cylinder with a large copper
condsuctor coming out of it. The trench had a heavy copper conductor
along its length, and at each cylinder, the copper conductors had to be
joined. So the guy had a firebrick mold that he clamped around the two
conductors. He filled it with a thermite compound that had a lot of
copper in it. When he lit it off, it burned like a very bright
sparkler, and left a casting of copper or some alloy around the two
conductors.

--
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[Michael A. Terrell]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 15:00:26 GMT, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

jim dorey wrote:

and iron and steel are soldered all the time, in industry, in home shops,
no big problem, but it's called brazing, cause brass is used as the solder
i guess. the temps are quite high, so it's not really applicable to
electronics, but i suppose industrial cabling could use it.

Brazing is done with "hard" (silver) solder. It doesn't seem to have
anything to do directly with brass- the other meaning of "braze"
(decorate, make of, or make hard like brass) came from a different
word (OE "braes") according to AH4.

I ran into a problem where someone tried to fix a leak in t water
cooled TV transmitter by braising the brass fittings to the 2" copper
pipe. It was a real pain in the ass to salvage the brass fittings which
were long out of production. I had to cut the pipe off flush, then
carefully file away the braised areas before I could heat everything and
pry out the copper stubs. The brass parts were used to split the water
flow for different tubes and had been custom cast in the early '50s

BTW, "braising" is a cooking term- browning in fat, then simmering in
a bit of liquid. The root (OF "brese") is thought to be the same for
the two words.

Sorry but my eyes are bothering me today so i just used the spell
checker.

Sounds like a real PITA to salvage the manifold. I imagine it would be
easy to have small leaks if you were not very careful.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This was a high pressure system with 7000 volts DC on the water and
they had used brass rod in their attempts to repair the plumbing. When
I reassembled the cooling system I pre tinned the pipe and all the
fittings, removed the flux and looked for any area that wasn't tinned
before I soldered everything together with an acetylene torch and a
small tip

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[jim dorey]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:25:53 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Brazing isn't soldering because it doesn't use solder.

i believe that even if it doesn't contain lead it can be called solder,
far as i know it refers to any non-fusion weld involving metal as a glue.
or are you refering to another reason it's not soldering?

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"jim dorey" <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
newspsomeotb8fr5e9h@trebuchet...

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:25:53 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Brazing isn't soldering because it doesn't use solder.

i believe that even if it doesn't contain lead it can be called
solder,
far as i know it refers to any non-fusion weld involving metal as a
glue.
or are you refering to another reason it's not soldering?

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:brazing

Looks like the consensus is that brazing is higher temp than soldering.

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 19:49:21 GMT, "jim dorey" <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:25:53 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

Brazing isn't soldering because it doesn't use solder.

i believe that even if it doesn't contain lead it can be called solder,
far as i know it refers to any non-fusion weld involving metal as a glue.
or are you refering to another reason it's not soldering?

Do not think that soldering is like gluing. Solder attaches itself to base
metal by dissolving some of it and forming an intermediate alloy layer. Ever
notice how unplanted copper soldering iron tip gets eaten away?

--

Boris Mohar

 

[jim dorey]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:14:15 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:brazing

Looks like the consensus is that brazing is higher temp than soldering.

i do believe i mentioned something about higher temperatures.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

 

[mike]

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\" wrote:

"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote in message
news:424aca3c$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

Well... Gold and silver might be a bit better, but too expensive. You

will

occasionally see copper with gold, silver, or tin plating on it. Tin
enhances solderability but by itself melts at too low a temperature.

Aluminum is a good conductor but not solderable.


Change that to solderable with difficulty. There are fluxes such as
fluoride fluxes that will make soldering to aluminum easy. I soldered a
piece of aluminum by sanding it and covering it with a layer of greasy
flux to prevent it from oxidizing. Then with a soldering iron that puts
out a lot of heat, the solder wets the aluminum like other metals.


More importantly, aluminum
forms an *invisible* nonconductive coating as it oxidizes in air.


If that were true, you could not test for conductivity with a DMM for
example. The layer is so thin that it poses little barrier to
electricity. As far as invisible, well, if the aluminum has been
exposed to air then it is a given that it has the oxide layer.

I beg to differ.
The oxide presents a VERY BIG barrier to electricity.
You can test for conductivity because the oxide is thin and
your probe is pointy to puncture the oxide.
mike

--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
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MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
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[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
news:1112492924.190164.212510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Watt Sun wrote:

So the guy had a firebrick mold
that he clamped around the two
conductors. He filled it with a
thermite compound that had a lot of
copper in it.

A common brand of this (so common that it's like "xerox" in use) is
Cadweld. The company I work for buys them by the tens of thousands.
Driving around in a truck or work train filled with thermite has known
hazards... hard to put out a fire that doesn't need any oxygen to
burn,
and which happens to be melting its way through the truck bed/railcar!

Ooh, that sounds like fun! Bring the hot dogs, it's a weenie roast!
)

> Tim.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

Ooh, that sounds like fun! Bring the hot dogs, it's a weenie roast!
)

I'd rather roast a few trolls and assorted spammers, thank you!

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida