Which university produces good analog EEs?

[Terry Given]

Chris Jones wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:16:17 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
jim@rstengineering.com> wrote:


I work with a couple of good analog cats, but we have a saying that we are
the dinosaurs of our time...most of us over 60 and getting ready to kick
back and enjoy the dollars we put into the retirement fund, never knowing
that some day we would actually use it.

The problem is chicken and egg...back when we were going to school in the
50s and 60s, analog was all the rage. Every engineering department worth
its salt had a ham club and everyone from sophomore year on up had built
their own tube amp for the newfangled stereo gig. Stereo back in those
days was the computer geek of today...hammering together this turntable
with that tape deck, ultralinear 6146s (or 807s if you were poor) in the
final and speaker cabinets (remember Karlson enclosures??) that needed a
forklift to
place properly. We all came out of there with a lot of analog and a
little tiny bit of digital.

Then the computer took over and the old analog professors were shunted
aside
in favor of those who spoke binary as a native language. Analog was
shunted aside until those who were destined to become professors at that
college never knew the joy of building micropower transmitters or who
learned which
end of the soldering iron got hot. If you've got no analog talent on
staff, you won't turn out any talented analog students.

My advice? Go down the list of ham radio licensees and when you get to
one
that says: "Trustee for the XYZ University Amateur Radio Club" call up
the engineering department of XYZ and ask them who the faculty advisor for
the
ham club is. Odds are you will get silence or "Oh, that club folded years
ago" as the answer. If you actually find a working club, talk to the
faculty advisor and ask how many students are in the club. If there are a
dozen or more, you've at least found yourself a prospective school.

My guess is that you won't find enough to count on both hands.

Jim

Now-a-days, how does a kid build anything of their own? Where do they
get parts?


Actually getting parts is now probably easier and cheaper than it has ever
been, with ebay and lots of online catalogues. People also discard things
now that as kids any of us would have been very pleased to dismantle, and
some of us still do.

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets that
they had.

Chris

Hell yeah wrt datsheets. Here in NZ in the 80's it was a real PITA.
semiconductor reps charged a lot for databooks, unless you were a big
customer. Intel was particularly bad. Back when I was a tech, it was
prohibitously expensive to get databooks, around $50 each. Luckily I had
a cousin who worked for Nat Semi, he sent me a big box of databooks (I
still have the analog apps book).

of course the internet does have a 6-month half life, but hard drive
storage is essentially free.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Joerg]

Terry Given wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:16:17 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
jim@rstengineering.com> wrote:


I work with a couple of good analog cats, but we have a saying that
we are
the dinosaurs of our time...most of us over 60 and getting ready to
kick
back and enjoy the dollars we put into the retirement fund, never
knowing
that some day we would actually use it.

The problem is chicken and egg...back when we were going to school
in the
50s and 60s, analog was all the rage. Every engineering department
worth
its salt had a ham club and everyone from sophomore year on up had
built
their own tube amp for the newfangled stereo gig. Stereo back in those
days was the computer geek of today...hammering together this turntable
with that tape deck, ultralinear 6146s (or 807s if you were poor) in
the
final and speaker cabinets (remember Karlson enclosures??) that
needed a
forklift to
place properly. We all came out of there with a lot of analog and a
little tiny bit of digital.

Then the computer took over and the old analog professors were shunted
aside
in favor of those who spoke binary as a native language. Analog was
shunted aside until those who were destined to become professors at
that
college never knew the joy of building micropower transmitters or who
learned which
end of the soldering iron got hot. If you've got no analog talent on
staff, you won't turn out any talented analog students.

My advice? Go down the list of ham radio licensees and when you get to
one
that says: "Trustee for the XYZ University Amateur Radio Club" call up
the engineering department of XYZ and ask them who the faculty
advisor for
the
ham club is. Odds are you will get silence or "Oh, that club folded
years
ago" as the answer. If you actually find a working club, talk to the
faculty advisor and ask how many students are in the club. If there
are a
dozen or more, you've at least found yourself a prospective school.

My guess is that you won't find enough to count on both hands.

Jim


Now-a-days, how does a kid build anything of their own? Where do they
get parts?



Actually getting parts is now probably easier and cheaper than it has
ever
been, with ebay and lots of online catalogues. People also discard
things
now that as kids any of us would have been very pleased to dismantle, and
some of us still do.

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the
internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets that
they had.

Chris


Hell yeah wrt datsheets. Here in NZ in the 80's it was a real PITA.
semiconductor reps charged a lot for databooks, unless you were a big
customer. Intel was particularly bad. Back when I was a tech, it was
prohibitously expensive to get databooks, around $50 each. Luckily I had
a cousin who worked for Nat Semi, he sent me a big box of databooks (I
still have the analog apps book).

of course the internet does have a 6-month half life, but hard drive
storage is essentially free.

Until you hear that telltale high-pitched whine, followed by an awful
screech.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Terry Given]

Joerg wrote:

Terry Given wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:16:17 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
jim@rstengineering.com> wrote:


I work with a couple of good analog cats, but we have a saying that
we are
the dinosaurs of our time...most of us over 60 and getting ready to
kick
back and enjoy the dollars we put into the retirement fund, never
knowing
that some day we would actually use it.

The problem is chicken and egg...back when we were going to school
in the
50s and 60s, analog was all the rage. Every engineering department
worth
its salt had a ham club and everyone from sophomore year on up had
built
their own tube amp for the newfangled stereo gig. Stereo back in
those
days was the computer geek of today...hammering together this
turntable
with that tape deck, ultralinear 6146s (or 807s if you were poor)
in the
final and speaker cabinets (remember Karlson enclosures??) that
needed a
forklift to
place properly. We all came out of there with a lot of analog and a
little tiny bit of digital.

Then the computer took over and the old analog professors were shunted
aside
in favor of those who spoke binary as a native language. Analog was
shunted aside until those who were destined to become professors at
that
college never knew the joy of building micropower transmitters or who
learned which
end of the soldering iron got hot. If you've got no analog talent on
staff, you won't turn out any talented analog students.

My advice? Go down the list of ham radio licensees and when you
get to
one
that says: "Trustee for the XYZ University Amateur Radio Club"
call up
the engineering department of XYZ and ask them who the faculty
advisor for
the
ham club is. Odds are you will get silence or "Oh, that club
folded years
ago" as the answer. If you actually find a working club, talk to the
faculty advisor and ask how many students are in the club. If
there are a
dozen or more, you've at least found yourself a prospective school.

My guess is that you won't find enough to count on both hands.

Jim



Now-a-days, how does a kid build anything of their own? Where do they
get parts?




Actually getting parts is now probably easier and cheaper than it has
ever
been, with ebay and lots of online catalogues. People also discard
things
now that as kids any of us would have been very pleased to dismantle,
and
some of us still do.

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the
internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets
that
they had.

Chris



Hell yeah wrt datsheets. Here in NZ in the 80's it was a real PITA.
semiconductor reps charged a lot for databooks, unless you were a big
customer. Intel was particularly bad. Back when I was a tech, it was
prohibitously expensive to get databooks, around $50 each. Luckily I
had a cousin who worked for Nat Semi, he sent me a big box of
databooks (I still have the analog apps book).

of course the internet does have a 6-month half life, but hard drive
storage is essentially free.


Until you hear that telltale high-pitched whine, followed by an awful
screech.

I have several large USB hard drives for "backup". hopefully they wont
all break simultaneously.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Joerg]

Terry Given wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Terry Given wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:16:17 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
jim@rstengineering.com> wrote:


I work with a couple of good analog cats, but we have a saying
that we are
the dinosaurs of our time...most of us over 60 and getting ready
to kick
back and enjoy the dollars we put into the retirement fund, never
knowing
that some day we would actually use it.

The problem is chicken and egg...back when we were going to school
in the
50s and 60s, analog was all the rage. Every engineering
department worth
its salt had a ham club and everyone from sophomore year on up had
built
their own tube amp for the newfangled stereo gig. Stereo back in
those
days was the computer geek of today...hammering together this
turntable
with that tape deck, ultralinear 6146s (or 807s if you were poor)
in the
final and speaker cabinets (remember Karlson enclosures??) that
needed a
forklift to
place properly. We all came out of there with a lot of analog and a
little tiny bit of digital.

Then the computer took over and the old analog professors were
shunted
aside
in favor of those who spoke binary as a native language. Analog was
shunted aside until those who were destined to become professors
at that
college never knew the joy of building micropower transmitters or who
learned which
end of the soldering iron got hot. If you've got no analog talent on
staff, you won't turn out any talented analog students.

My advice? Go down the list of ham radio licensees and when you
get to
one
that says: "Trustee for the XYZ University Amateur Radio Club"
call up
the engineering department of XYZ and ask them who the faculty
advisor for
the
ham club is. Odds are you will get silence or "Oh, that club
folded years
ago" as the answer. If you actually find a working club, talk to the
faculty advisor and ask how many students are in the club. If
there are a
dozen or more, you've at least found yourself a prospective school.

My guess is that you won't find enough to count on both hands.

Jim




Now-a-days, how does a kid build anything of their own? Where do they
get parts?





Actually getting parts is now probably easier and cheaper than it
has ever
been, with ebay and lots of online catalogues. People also discard
things
now that as kids any of us would have been very pleased to
dismantle, and
some of us still do.

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the
internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had
some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could
take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets
that
they had.

Chris




Hell yeah wrt datsheets. Here in NZ in the 80's it was a real PITA.
semiconductor reps charged a lot for databooks, unless you were a big
customer. Intel was particularly bad. Back when I was a tech, it was
prohibitously expensive to get databooks, around $50 each. Luckily I
had a cousin who worked for Nat Semi, he sent me a big box of
databooks (I still have the analog apps book).

of course the internet does have a 6-month half life, but hard drive
storage is essentially free.


Until you hear that telltale high-pitched whine, followed by an awful
screech.


I have several large USB hard drives for "backup". hopefully they wont
all break simultaneously.

As long as they don't share a power rail and are protected from spikes
that should be a good strategy. Still, one copy should go off-site.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Folks,

Happens a lot these days, last time an hour ago: Someone is looking for
an analog/mixed signal engineer (this time low power design). I could do
it but they absolutely want to have someone on staff. Which I can't do.
So, I often try to convince them to settle for a youngster who gets
coached now and then, instead of sitting there a year from now still
trying to find the perfect candidate.

Which US or Canadian university lets off the best analog/mixed EEs? I
know, I know, many can't even solder etc. It ain't like it used to be.
But there has got to be an alma mater that sticks out. Or maybe a
particular institute at one. And please, no pissing contests.

Try out Montana State and the University of Colorado.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

 

[Tim Williams]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JbuKi.695$ua4.411@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

Tim Williams wrote:

*Waves hand*?


???

Trying to be shrewd in saying that, I sound like the person you're looking
for.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Joerg wrote:
[..snip...]

Which US or Canadian university lets off the best analog/mixed EEs? I
know, I know, many can't even solder etc. It ain't like it used to be.
But there has got to be an alma mater that sticks out. Or maybe a
particular institute at one. And please, no pissing contests.

Don't you work in the biomedical electronics industry? There are several
universities with degree programs in this particular field. The
curriculum for this concentration requires serious course work in
several of the applied sciences, biophysics, and the supporting
measurement technology, analog and mixed signal. Graduates of these
programs are generally superior to the mass produced poorly educated
riffraff of the unfocussed EE programs that lack context, mostly
bit-heads; I wouldn't hire them to take out the garbage.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tim Williams wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JbuKi.695$ua4.411@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

Tim Williams wrote:


*Waves hand*?


???


Trying to be shrewd in saying that, I sound like the person you're looking
for.

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

But does modern design practice use vacuum tube logic circuits still?

 

[Joerg]

Tim Williams wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JbuKi.695$ua4.411@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

Tim Williams wrote:


*Waves hand*?


???


Trying to be shrewd in saying that, I sound like the person you're looking
for.

Ah, now it registered ;-)

You've got mail.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hello Folks,

Happens a lot these days, last time an hour ago: Someone is looking
for an analog/mixed signal engineer (this time low power design). I
could do it but they absolutely want to have someone on staff. Which I
can't do. So, I often try to convince them to settle for a youngster
who gets coached now and then, instead of sitting there a year from
now still trying to find the perfect candidate.

Which US or Canadian university lets off the best analog/mixed EEs? I
know, I know, many can't even solder etc. It ain't like it used to be.
But there has got to be an alma mater that sticks out. Or maybe a
particular institute at one. And please, no pissing contests.


Try out Montana State and the University of Colorado.

Thanks, that's a start. I just fear that guys who've lived in places
like that would not enjoy Bay Area life (I wouldn't). But definitely
worth a try.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Joerg wrote:
[..snip...]


Which US or Canadian university lets off the best analog/mixed EEs? I
know, I know, many can't even solder etc. It ain't like it used to be.
But there has got to be an alma mater that sticks out. Or maybe a
particular institute at one. And please, no pissing contests.


Don't you work in the biomedical electronics industry? There are several
universities with degree programs in this particular field. The
curriculum for this concentration requires serious course work in
several of the applied sciences, biophysics, and the supporting
measurement technology, analog and mixed signal. Graduates of these
programs are generally superior to the mass produced poorly educated
riffraff of the unfocussed EE programs that lack context, mostly
bit-heads; I wouldn't hire them to take out the garbage.

We have a pretty good biomed program at UC Davis here in town. I've
worked with biomed engineers and they sure are a smart bunch. However,
most of them are not hardcore analog guys who can squeeze the last dB of
NF out of a jelly-bean transistor.

I came from the other direction, RF. Slipped into biomed by coincidence,
it wasn't planned. My former room mate's mom went to market and back in
those days they wrapped lettuce in newspaper. She unpacked it at home
and there was an ad by Squibb Medical (seriously). I would have never
seen it because it was in their local paper. Small ultrasound
department, very independent from the big pharmaceutical organization.
So I interviewed and started there because I like smaller companies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Tim Williams]

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:46FBA647.1080905@nospam.com...

But does modern design practice use vacuum tube logic circuits still?

Ah, but don't you recall that thread Win started a while ago? Didn't his
solution involve a tube? ;-)

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

 

[Joerg]

Tim Williams wrote:

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:46FBA647.1080905@nospam.com...

But does modern design practice use vacuum tube logic circuits still?


Ah, but don't you recall that thread Win started a while ago? Didn't his
solution involve a tube? ;-)

The HV switch? I think he went the white-knuckle route using a FET
stack. A ballast triode would probably have been the perfect fit.
Problem is, they don't make'em no more :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:16:29 -0700, Mark <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 26, 1:58 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:16:17 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"





j...@rstengineering.com> wrote:
I work with a couple of good analog cats, but we have a saying that we are
the dinosaurs of our time...most of us over 60 and getting ready to kick
back and enjoy the dollars we put into the retirement fund, never knowing
that some day we would actually use it.

The problem is chicken and egg...back when we were going to school in the
50s and 60s, analog was all the rage. Every engineering department worth
its salt had a ham club and everyone from sophomore year on up had built
their own tube amp for the newfangled stereo gig. Stereo back in those days
was the computer geek of today...hammering together this turntable with that
tape deck, ultralinear 6146s (or 807s if you were poor) in the final and
speaker cabinets (remember Karlson enclosures??) that needed a forklift to
place properly. We all came out of there with a lot of analog and a little
tiny bit of digital.

Then the computer took over and the old analog professors were shunted aside
in favor of those who spoke binary as a native language. Analog was shunted
aside until those who were destined to become professors at that college
never knew the joy of building micropower transmitters or who learned which
end of the soldering iron got hot. If you've got no analog talent on staff,
you won't turn out any talented analog students.

My advice? Go down the list of ham radio licensees and when you get to one
that says: "Trustee for the XYZ University Amateur Radio Club" call up the
engineering department of XYZ and ask them who the faculty advisor for the
ham club is. Odds are you will get silence or "Oh, that club folded years
ago" as the answer. If you actually find a working club, talk to the
faculty advisor and ask how many students are in the club. If there are a
dozen or more, you've at least found yourself a prospective school.

My guess is that you won't find enough to count on both hands.

Jim

Now-a-days, how does a kid build anything of their own? Where do they
get parts?

I remember when Radio Shack, Allied, and Lafayette were primarily part
bins ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Ebay.. it's like an infinite basement, I put all my stuff in there,
and take out what I need...

Mark

My personal part bins include chips from the '60's ;-)

First run samples don't count! ;-)


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"RST Engineering (jw)" wrote:

I've got a couple of trays full of the original Fairchild RTL buffers,
gates, and flops.

Flatpack 914, and 923 marked 'NASA'.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Chris Jones wrote:

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets that
they had.

Does anyone else still have a microfiche Viewer/Printer?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Terry Given]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets that
they had.



Does anyone else still have a microfiche Viewer/Printer?

viewer. I have a stack of IEE comics on microfiche, and picked up a
viewer for $5 a couple of years back

Cheers Terry

 

[Joerg]

Terry Given wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the
internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets
that
they had.




Does anyone else still have a microfiche Viewer/Printer?



viewer. I have a stack of IEE comics on microfiche, and picked up a
viewer for $5 a couple of years back

Check how old the fiches are. Probably not very. But if they are really
old make sure it's not the kind of film that can spontaneously combust.
IIRC that burned down a large building somewhere in Russia where they
had stored many spools of old movies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Joerg wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hello Folks,

Happens a lot these days, last time an hour ago: Someone is looking
for an analog/mixed signal engineer (this time low power design). I
could do it but they absolutely want to have someone on staff. Which
I can't do. So, I often try to convince them to settle for a
youngster who gets coached now and then, instead of sitting there a
year from now still trying to find the perfect candidate.

Which US or Canadian university lets off the best analog/mixed EEs? I
know, I know, many can't even solder etc. It ain't like it used to
be. But there has got to be an alma mater that sticks out. Or maybe a
particular institute at one. And please, no pissing contests.


Try out Montana State and the University of Colorado.


Thanks, that's a start. I just fear that guys who've lived in places
like that would not enjoy Bay Area life (I wouldn't). But definitely
worth a try.

It's amazing what a W-2 form can do to motivate someone--ask me how I

know, I've lived in NY for 20 years now.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:58:51 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Terry Given wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Chris Jones wrote:

Getting datasheets is also much easier for hobbyists since the
internet took
off. I remember having to make long journeys to a library that had some
datasheets on microfilm, then paying quite a lot of money to have them
printed off, and the whole process of getting one datasheet could take a
day of my time, even if I was lucky and it was one of the datasheets
that
they had.




Does anyone else still have a microfiche Viewer/Printer?



viewer. I have a stack of IEE comics on microfiche, and picked up a
viewer for $5 a couple of years back


Check how old the fiches are. Probably not very. But if they are really
old make sure it's not the kind of film that can spontaneously combust.
IIRC that burned down a large building somewhere in Russia where they
had stored many spools of old movies.

If it's newer than about 1950 it should be okay.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com