Which glue, available at any hardware store, for the screen

[John-Del]

On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 8:22:01 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:

I do not understand why the troll (holder) gets any traction at all, much less an entire thread dedicated to something as absurd as the adhesive (NOT glue) used to secure a protective sheet on phone glass. This is not the first wild hare it has sent this group a-chasing.

Just don't feed the troll. At all.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park.

Sorry Peter, I did not recognize his name, nor do I know any of the socks he apparently posts under. I'll avoid him from now on.

 

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 03 Feb 2019 14:54:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Thanks. Now I understand. The suggestions of using double sided tape
is closest to the solution.

Hi Jeff,
I agree.
It's a simple question - but not an easy one to answer.

I thank you for asking clarifying questions, as you forced me to prove my
words, where I realized I hadn't looked at the situation closely enough
until I snapped those photos for you.

From the photos, and from your astute queries, I realized:
1. It likely is a "tape" (and not "just" a glue), and,
2. It is all around the perimeter (which I hadn't noticed prior).

Usually, there's a die cut pre-form in
the shape of the bezel on the phone supplied with the replacement
touch screen. It's basically double sided tape cut to the exact shape
needed to attach the digitizer. As mentioned, the backing tape is
quite thin. I couldn't find one for your LG phone.

I agree now that I've looked more closely that it's an ultra thin tape
(most likely), and not a glue, per se.

So, that leaves the question of what manner of glue was used on the
die cut pre-form. My original guess was some manner of rubber cement.

It _does_ seem to be a "rubbery cementy" type gooey stickiness...

The problem is that there are a fairly large number of different types
of rubber cement, ranging from very permanent contact cement, to the
thin temporary rubber cement sold in art supply stores for photo and
picture mounts. Kinda like the weird glue used on Post-It notes.

Since the goal was to find a local supply of a "typical" glue, I will try a
local art-supply store, which should have "removable" gooey rubbery cement
- thanks for that idea!

I have some of the die cut pre-forms for an Apple 3G which I can use
to analyze the glue. However, I don't want to, don't have the time,
and would rather be doing something more interesting. Sorry.

Nope. Please don't go to that trouble, Jeff.

You've helped more than anyone else on this newsgroup can, simply because
you comprehend the problem set and potential solutions better than those
Snit-like folks who always prove to know even less than I do.

You're a good detective, Jeff, since you "see" the problems, in problems.
(All they saw was a credit-card solution - which was never the question.)

BTW, I had first searched the canonical archives for this question:
<http://tinyurl.com/sci-electronics-repair>

I also first searched the Internet - and only after both came up busted,
did I ask about the glue chemistry/physics here.

Meanwhile, see if the glues are acceptable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-15-25-50ML-B-7000-Strength-Glue-Phone-Screen-Rhinestone-Pasting-Adhesive/312448029236

That has an interesting keyword which I was unaware of:
"Rhinestone pasting adhesive"

> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobile-Phone-Screen-Adhesive-Clear-Black-Liquid-Glue-B7000-T7000-E8000-T8000/232887790775>

That one is called "Mobile Phone Screen Adhesive", which I wish they had
more information in the description about other than it ships from China
(it's one reason I've never bought from Ebay in my life).

Tape:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-3-5mm-Double-Sided-Adhesive-Tape-for-Mobile-Phone-Touch-Screen-Repair-25M/302902142611

That one seems almost perfect, in that it's a 2mm, 3mm, or 5mm "Double
Sided Adhesive Tape for Mobile Phone Touch Screen Repair 25M"

It takes about a month to arrive from China, but, at _that_ price, the huge
presumed risk of Ebay disappears, since $1.60 per roll is not risking much.

Given the dimensions, the 2mm tape can be trimmed to be used on the long
sides (~1.4mm), and the 5mm tape + 3mm tape can be used on the top
(~0.9cm), with two 5mm tapes on the bottom (~1.2cm).

The beauty, as with all repair solutions, is that the tape will definitely
come in handy for _other_ repairs around the home (as long as it stores
well).

More:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=mobile+phone+screen+adhesive
It looks to be about 75% solvent, which I think is about right for a
low viscosity glue.

The first object is a "glue removal liquid" and the second is a "uv glue"
which is what would be needed if there were no edges - but this phone has
plenty of edges.

The rest appear to be glue removal goops, which is fine but I think simple
alcohol and/or acetone should work for removal of the existing goopy stuff.

> Again, think heavily diluted rubber cement and die cut pre-forms.

Hi Jeff,
Since you speak logically, it's impossible to disagree with you.
o If glue, it needs to be high solvent that evaporates leaving goop
o If tape, it needs to be ultra-thin, which is what I think they used

I repeat that it's actually shocking, to me, how _well_ this plate works
given that only on the perimeter has _any_ glue!

That's because the various layers of the sandwich are VERY flat and
are held together by surface tension from water vapor in the boundary
area. It's something like what holds gauge blocks together, except
those usually have a layer of oil in addition to water vapor.

Smooth?
Hmmm.... interesting. Very interesting.

Certainly it works. Beautifully.

That it works is very interesting, since it's so simple (glass on glass).

I agree with you Jeff that it works _beautifully_, without having to put
any of that uv-cured glue on the actual screen - where it makes sense that
there is "something" in the physics/mechanics that makes the plate bond
beautifully to the glass.

And yet, there are no bubbles.

Yep. The glass and plastic are not sufficiently elastic and will
therefore not stretch sufficiently to create bubbles.

o What is the property called where two objects stick together because they are both very smooth?
<https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-property-called-where-two-objects-stick-together-because-they-are-both-very-smooth>
"It is called wringability, named after the act of joining
("wringing") two gauge blocks together"

"Wringing requires two smooth, flat surfaces with surface finishes
of 1 microinch AA or better. For gage blocks, it becomes difficult
to wring surfaces if the flatness starts to exceed 5 microinches.
The sources of the forces holding gage blocks together are thought
to come from:
1. Air pressure from the surrounding environment as the air
is squeezed out when the blocks are slid together.
2. Surface tension from oil that remains on the gage blocks or
water vapor from the air acts as a glue to hold them together.
3. When two very flat surfaces are brought into such close contact
with each other, this allows an interchange of electrons between
the atoms of the separate blocks, which creates an attractive
molecular force. (This force will remain even in a vacuum or if
no oil or water is present on the blocks.)
The last two sources are thought to be the most significant."

Here's where the problem arose when we swapped plates:
7. The plate in the center was removed easily from the left phone
8. But we dropped it on the floor when moving to the right phone
9. In subsequent cleanup, we destroyed the "stickiness" of the glue

Cleaning off the old glue, and replacing it with new glue will
probably be beyond our capabilities. You can try using a rubber
squeegee to apply a thin layer, but I suspect you'll need some kind of
fixture to get any manner of consistency.

The main goal will be achieved if I can find the proper temporary goopy
stuff at an art store later today or later this week.

I don't think cleaning will be difficult, simply because it must react to
solvents, and even if not, mechanical scraping seems "doable".

It's also not worth the
effort as a new screen will do the job for less money and effort. Try
some solvent (not sure what type) on the existing mess and see if the
stickiness returns.

While a new screen will work, that was never the question simply because
the goal was to understand how it worked and then to figure out a glue that
does the job.

I think we've accomplished that goal, which is both a learning and
pragmatic experience. I will know more after I visit an art supply store.

I've seen the videos that use a "liquid" glue which is _not_ used here.
This is a static sticky goopy glue (sort of what's on the back of tape).

When the carrier solvent evaporates, what's left is your sticky goopy
glue.

In this case, the liquid refractively-matched glues don't apply.

If we could figure out what glue they use to put on the back of typical
tape (like Scotch tape), that would likely be the only glue we need.

It's called a PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) and is probably an
acrylic (or acrylate):
https://www.can-dotape.com/adhesive-tape-consultant/adhesives-used-for-tape/

"Scotch Transparent Tape"
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/scotchtape.html
Rubber shortages during the war prompted 3M to switch to
synthetic acrylate adhesives. Although not as strong,
acrylate adhesives retained their clarity and actually
aged better than rubber-based adhesives, which turned
yellow and brittle over time. Later, acrylate adhesives
would be mated with an acetate backing to create "invisible"
ScotchŽ Magic™ Tape, the first tape that could be written
on with pencil, pen, or marker.

Basically, it's acrylic plastic dissolved in some type of solvent.

That's an interesting set of finds, which I agree with you on the analysis
of. I think the solution is simply to find that acrylic plastic in the arts
and crafts stores, which it would seem to exist most since they do more
temporary tacking than the box store stuff is designed for (I would think).

1. There _is_ glue on the entire perimeter
(Where I had thought it was only on the top & bottom.)

Ok, if there is glue all over the screen, then it has to be very thin,
not very sticky, achromatic (so the colors don't change), and very
very very clear. That's not something you'll find at the local
hardware store.

Ooops. I meant only on the thin perimeter is there glue.
(Long sides is about 1.5mm, top & bottom around 1cm.)
The entire "active" portion of the screen is devoid of glue.

I don't think the layers of the sandwich will slide over each other,
but they curl or slip from uneven temperatures.

The protective glass screen "is" itself a sandwich of at least glass on the
outside and plastic on the inside.

That protective screen is then placed on top of the phone glass, and that
is the perfect fit.

The question becomes:
o Where does one get the sticky glue that is on typical tape?

First, you have to identify it. I usually start with a patent search.
Look for "pressure sensitive adhesive tape LCD".
https://patents.google.com/?q=pressure&q=sensitive&q=adhesive+tape+LCD

This one looks interesting:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20040191509A1/en?q=pressure&q=sensitive&q=adhesive+tape+LCD
...examples of which include known or usual pressure-sensitive
adhesives such as acrylic pressure-sensitive adhesives,
silicone based pressure-sensitive adhesives, polyester
based pressure-sensitive adhesives, rubber based
pressure-sensitive adhesives, and polyurethane based
pressure-sensitive adhesives. The pressure-sensitive adhesive
can be used singly or in admixture of two or more thereof.
So, it can be acrylic, silicone, rubber, polyurethane, or a mixture of
the aforementioned. Not very helpful, but at least it's a start.

Thanks Jeff,
I think I can take it from here in that you've helped determine
o It's almost certainly an ultra-thin tape (originally a die-cut tape)
o A pressure-sensitive adhesive would also work
o The best source for the tape & adhesive is (apparently) overseas
o While a reasonable facsimile can likely be found in local art stores

I'll visit a few art stores today to see if I can find the glue or tape
locally (I have never bought from Ebay due to the risk but in this case at
the prices you found, the loss risk, even if real, is low).

 

[The Real Bev]

On 02/03/2019 01:01 PM, arlen holder wrote:

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 11:31:47 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

The _best_ I can find on Amazon, sorted by lowest price, is:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank?keywords=protective+screen+lg+stylo+3+plus&sort=price-asc-rank

The cheapest, is more than twice what you quoted, although I'm sure, in
bulk, we can find cheaper (but I only need one, or maybe two, for now).

I simply ask where & how you found the protectors for 3 bucks shipped?

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=screen+protector+lg+stylo+3+plus&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ascreen+protector+lg+stylo+3+plus

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=screen+protector+lg+stylo+3+plus&_sacat=0

Hi The Real Bev,

*My main clarifying point is that this question is about "glue" (not glass).*

I'm not sure _how_ to respond to your post other than to thank you for, at
least, for trying (although I don't think you realize what you posted is
not only no better than what I posted, but also worse).

I understand that the intent is to solve a glue problem. OTOH,
sometimes a quick&dirty solution is ultimately needed. Somebody posted
an Amazon link which yielded different results from mine.

Sorry you don't like ebay. If you're not in a hurry it's an extremely
useful site for inexpensive stuff that costs a bundle in local stores --
especially since it's frequently the same stuff. Any problems we've had
(small number) were quickly solved, mostly by a simple refund with no
return required. One exception: a $99 phablet that wouldn't see SIMs.
Ultimately the CC company made the refund; the seller wanted the unit
returned ($60) which we and the CC company found to be unreasonable.

--
Cheers, Bev
The Marketing Professional's Motto: "We don't screw the customers. All
we're doing is holding them down while the salespeople screw them."
-- Scott Adams

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 12:55:06 PM UTC-5, The Real Bev wrote:

> I understand that the intent is to solve a glue problem.

If that were the intent, the troll would have spent the $1.99 and gotten the 10-pack and experimented for itself. Nor does the troll understand the essential difference between a controlled factory setting and its cave in terms of applying an adhesive under conditions where a single bit of dust could ruin the entire exercise.

I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[The Real Bev]

On 02/04/2019 11:03 AM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

> I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

"Angus, the regiment has voted to replace it."

--
Cheers, Bev
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb.

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 2:15:42 PM UTC-5, The Real Bev wrote:

On 02/04/2019 11:03 AM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

"Angus, the regiment has voted to replace it."

--

LOL! My dad told me that one when I was a kid and he had a pretty good burr to deliver it with.

 

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:55:01 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

I understand that the intent is to solve a glue problem. OTOH,
sometimes a quick&dirty solution is ultimately needed. Somebody posted
an Amazon link which yielded different results from mine.

Hi The Real Bev,

We go way back, so you know I don't suffer fools well, which is why I'm
only responding to you (and to Jeff) and not to the Snit-like know-nothing
trolls who both preceded you and follow (where they _never_ add a single
iota of value to _any_ thread).

They prove to be children in _every_ post, where I don't suffer fools well.

Jeff comprehended the question which was originally about 'glue'.
o It turns out to most likely be an ultra-thin tape (originally die cut)

Jeff also comprehended the solution, which is either "glue" or "tape"
o If glue, it needs to be a high solvent "rubbery" "acrylic" style glue
Where the solvent evaporates, leaving the sticky stuff behind.

As Jeff already noted, for both tape & glue, the type appears to be
"pressure sensitive", where the "wringability" of glass on glass is what
prevents bubbles from forming.

> Sorry you don't like ebay.

While I _barely_ even use Amazon, I feel Ebay is worlds less "safe"
(in so many ways that I won't even enumerate them here).

Suffice to say that most of those Ebay links I looked at that folks posted
were from Chinese operations, which means shipping takes something like a
month, and where a lot of the product was quoted in foreign currencies I
haven't even heard of (sure I can look them up, but the point is that an
Ebay link is not all that useful if the best we can find is something
halfway around the world quoted in currencies I've never even heard of
shipped by a company I can't possibly contact when things go wrong, etc.).

If the Ebay link connected to, say, a company in the USA that has a known
presence that can be contacted for customer support, that would be
different - but almost all the quoted Ebay links (if not all) were from an
unknown entity in China where you can't vouch for what you're going to get
like you can with, say, Home Depot or Ace or Lowe's (which, you'll note, is
clearly noted as being part of the original question asking for a
solution).

In short, Ebay is ridiculous since it's an answer that does even remotely
NOT fit the problem set (except to people who didn't understand the problem
set in the first place - which is my fault for not making it clear I was
seeking a local solution at any local box store).

If you're not in a hurry it's an extremely
useful site for inexpensive stuff that costs a bundle in local stores --
especially since it's frequently the same stuff.

I don't doubt the veracity of what you're saying, but Ebay from China just
doesn't even remotely fit the problem set as stated in the very subject of
this post, and as stated in the opening post.

Ebay is fine as a "reference" for the lowest possible price (where, I'll
note, even the trolls couldn't back up their claimed prices, even _with_
Ebay links - which shows how much they just make up everything they say,
which is why I claim those trolls never add even a single iota of value to
_any_ thread).

As I recall, Snit _admitted_ being Fox's Mercantile, for example, but I'd
have to dig up that post from long ago, so, rather than bother, I'll just
state that _everything_ Fox's Mercantile posts literally _reeks_ of
Snit-like posts ... hence I'll just lump them _all_ into the Snit-like
category.

You, The Real Bev, on the other hand, as is Jeff, are almost always
"purposefully helpful". If you don't have an answer, you don't bother
posting, which is commendable.

(The Snit-like posters like Fox's Mercantile, who claim everyone _else_ is
a troll, don't even know simple math in that they infest threads where the
thread only needs 1 or 2 helpful responses, and yet, their Snit-like posts
outnumber the useful responses from 10 to 1 and even, at times, their
Snit-like posts outnumber useful posts at 100 to one -- all because they
claim _everyone_ else to be a troll simply for asking a valid question of a
valid newsgroup).

HINT: Fox's Mercantile _is_ Snit (he admitted it long ago); but even if he
now denies what he already admitted, the proof is that Fox's Mercantile
always adds _negative_ value to _every_ thread he infests (so Fox's
Mercantile is Snit-like even if Fox's Mercantile no longer claims to be
Snit himself).

Any problems we've had
(small number) were quickly solved, mostly by a simple refund with no
return required. One exception: a $99 phablet that wouldn't see SIMs.
Ultimately the CC company made the refund; the seller wanted the unit
returned ($60) which we and the CC company found to be unreasonable.

I know of people close to me who _never_ received Ebay shipments, and then,
when they _tried_ to resolve the problem, they had to jump through hoops by
begging the Ebay Customer Support to prove contact information (which
always turned out to be email addresses only) and then they had to work
that through the emails, and only after that, through Ebay.

Nonetheless, even if Ebay has the best prices, nobody could even come close
to the prices they _claimed_ (at least by percentage, where they were, in
general, more than 100% off the mark) for something that is a reliable
source found locally or in Amazon.

I'm not complaining, by the way, as I know _you_ to be a respectable
poster, as you know me to be also. I'm just asking _them_ where they get
their outrageous claims, where one must point out again (and again)
o Comprehension of the question is key
o Where the question was always about glue and not about glass
o Where their condesencing remarks are to be expected from trolls
o And yet, they weren't even close (off by more than 100% most of the time)
o And yet, they claim I am the troll (when all I did was ask a valid question)

In short, this is how you know me to operate, The Real Bev:
1. I ask a valid question of a valid newsgroup
2. I answer all valid responses, adding value in each post (e.g., pictures)
3. I act on the suggestions that are appropriate (as suggested by Jeff)

In short, this is how the trolls operate, The Real Bev:
A. They post unrelated drivel (e.g., Fox's Mercantile who is really Snit)
B. They prove to miscomprehend the problem set (as pfjw@aol.com did)
C. They post completely bogus imaginary prices (as did John-Del)
etc.

The facts are pretty simple here:
a. I asked a question about the glue in a specific faceplate
b. That glue turned out to be an ultra-thin tape
c. Where the "local" solution appears to be an arts/crafts store

I'll let you know, perhaps later today, what I find at a local
arts-and-crafts store, since I generally close the loop so as to provide an
update to the overall tribal knowledge of the newsgroup.
http://tinyurl.com/sci-electronics-repait

BTW: The Real Bev, guess who _created_ that link so that we'd all benefit?

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 2/4/19 1:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

On 02/04/2019 11:03 AM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on
the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

"Angus, the regiment has voted to replace it."

Somebody Schpoke?

Extra points if you know which character actor I'm quoting.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 4:07:15 PM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

On 2/4/19 1:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 02/04/2019 11:03 AM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on
the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

"Angus, the regiment has voted to replace it."


Somebody Schpoke?

Extra points if you know which character actor I'm quoting.

--

Ooh! Ooh! One particular Soviet sub commander?

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:11:09 PM UTC-5, arlen holder wrote:

C. They post completely bogus imaginary prices (as did John-Del)
etc.

Sorry Peter, but I must (being called out by name).

So I'm now faking ebay auctions for your benefit? Even if I did possess these hacking skills, why would I waste them on a troll?

Well, here's another I whipped up. This "fake" ebay auction has 5 (five) LG Stylo 3 protectors for the low, low price of one dollar and ninety nine cents!!! ($1.99) including shipping. This comes out to 0.40 cents each. Unfortunately, you don't get a Super Shammy included with this offer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-LG-Stylo-3-LG-Stylo-3-Plus-5-Pack-Screen-Protector-Film-Clear/401324564490?hash=item5d70cee00a:g:3N0AAOSwhH1cSq3M:rk:7f:0

For your benefit and shipping expediency, I also based my fake ebay seller in the continental USA (not China), and gave him a feedback total of over 2 million sales! Security over $1.99? Sure! Just complain to paypal and they will refund your money so you can spend the two bucks on new condoms.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 2/4/19 2:11 PM, arlen holder wrote:

and not to the Snit-like know-nothing trolls who both
preceded you and follow (where they_never_add a single
iota of value to_any_thread).

And one again, you've added nothing except listening to
yourself pontificate.

And accusing me, and others of being snit, well, you've
just outed yourself as being just one of 20 or so different
names you use to get around getting filtered by everyone
else that has grown tired of your long pointless postings
smeared across seemingly random news groups.

And as usual, you bitch about eBay, amazon and everyone
else, that surprisingly, the rest of us, and millions of
others use daily without the slightest bit of problems.

In summary, you sir, are a carbuncle on the ass of humanity.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[The Real Bev]

On 02/04/2019 01:07 PM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

On 2/4/19 1:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 02/04/2019 11:03 AM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

I expect next that the troll will request how to recycle condoms - on
the off-chance that it might get to use one in the first place.

"Angus, the regiment has voted to replace it."

Somebody Schpoke?

Extra points if you know which character actor I'm quoting.

Who else? I refuse to eat the haggis, though, even if HE serves it!


--
Cheers, Bev
"It's important to never be arrogant. Especially if you're one
of the little people whose opinion doesn't matter." --Rat

 

[The Real Bev]

On 02/04/2019 01:15 PM, John-Del wrote:

For your benefit and shipping expediency, I also based my fake ebay
seller in the continental USA (not China), and gave him a feedback
total of over 2 million sales! Security over $1.99? Sure! Just
complain to paypal and they will refund your money so you can spend
the two bucks on new condoms.

I don't order anything that costs more money than I'm willing to throw
away. The phablet was an exception, and I won't make it again. Prices
are frequently given in Canadian dollars as well as US dollars. Some
things you just can't find here. Like the tool that removes the stem
from strawberries. I'm willing to wait one or two months, I'd been
looking in stores for a year.

We've had trouble with high-capacity microSD cards from ebay. They
looked absolutely authentic, but allowed only a few GB of storage.
Tried on a number of linux and windows machines using several card
readers. Same problem with Amazon. Sellers apologized profusely,
credited back the payment and didn't demand return, although Amazon
wanted a photo of the card.

I believe they were all factory defects of varying quality sold out the
back door by the kilo. What I wonder about is why the people who bought
them don't all demand a refund -- it's not like it's difficult -- making
their sale wasted effort.

A lot of what we have to buy here is cheap junk at inflated prices.
Since it's all made in the same place, we might as well buy it at the
best price if we're not in a hurry.

I wish I'd bought more of the $1 Belkin shielded USB cables with the
little LED lights on the ends.

--
Cheers, Bev
"It's important to never be arrogant. Especially if you're one
of the little people whose opinion doesn't matter." --Rat

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <q3abrh$gt9$1@dont-email.me>, bashley101@gmail.com says...

We've had trouble with high-capacity microSD cards from ebay. They
looked absolutely authentic, but allowed only a few GB of storage.
Tried on a number of linux and windows machines using several card
readers. Same problem with Amazon. Sellers apologized profusely,
credited back the payment and didn't demand return, although Amazon
wanted a photo of the card.

I have bought many things from ebay. One time I did not get what I
bought from a China company. Ebay refunded my money which was around $
10.00

Most of the items are as expected. Just do not buy any simiconductors
from China. Many of them do not work as they should. Would not
surprise me if the SD and other memory devices from China are the same
way.

I know how they do it, but it really gets me that I can buy an item from
China for under $ 2 and it ships here. The same thing will cost that
much to ship to the next town not counting on what the item cost.

 

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:46:22 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

I don't order anything that costs more money than I'm willing to throw
away. The phablet was an exception, and I won't make it again. Prices
are frequently given in Canadian dollars as well as US dollars. Some
things you just can't find here. Like the tool that removes the stem
from strawberries. I'm willing to wait one or two months, I'd been
looking in stores for a year.

Hi The Real Bev,

Nothing you say about Ebay is unreasonable, where I simply reiterate:
o The SUBJECT & BODY of the OP explicitly asked about the local hw stores
o If the only way an argument can be made is via an "Ebay Auction"...
o Then, while it may work, it's not even close to what was asked.

That's why it's kind of funny how dead wrong _everything_ Snit said.

It's like asking:
Q: Where can I buy shrimp locally?
And they answer:
A: Move to Louisiana.

Sure. It's "an" answer; but it isn't a "useful" answer.

In the case of Snit, he just *made it up* (again) that I accuse _anyone_
else of being Snit, since I have _never_ done so, so Fox's Mercantile
(who _admitted_ being Snit long ago) is just trying to get out of it.

He _knows_ he admitted he was Snit, and he knows I've _never_ accused
anyone else of being Snit but him (since he admitted it himself); so that's
why he stumbles along, where you'll notice he ends with a childish ad
hominem attack (and more accusations of trolling, which is kind of funny
for Snit (aka Fox's Mercantile).

What's funny is I don't even _need_ his ad hominem attacks:
o All I need to do is point out exactly what the say - which is what I do.

He proves himself, the simple fact (as in this very thread):
o All Snit (Fox's Mercantile) _can_ do, is write off-topic worthless drivel

We've had trouble with high-capacity microSD cards from ebay. They
looked absolutely authentic, but allowed only a few GB of storage.
Tried on a number of linux and windows machines using several card
readers. Same problem with Amazon. Sellers apologized profusely,
credited back the payment and didn't demand return, although Amazon
wanted a photo of the card.

Yup. I have some a friend gave me from Alibaba orders where he ordered a
ton of them. They were highly unreliable in my Samsung Galaxy S3. I gave up
on them, even though they were huge in capacity.

I don't know this for a fact, but it _could_ be that they were rejects.

I believe they were all factory defects of varying quality sold out the
back door by the kilo. What I wonder about is why the people who bought
them don't all demand a refund -- it's not like it's difficult -- making
their sale wasted effort.

Yup. I don't disagree.

Each batch could be different where it could be rejects, or stolen, or,
maybe, if we're lucky, it could just be over production of a batch or a
mistake on quantities ordered, etc.

The problem is that on Ebay, at least with most (if not all) the links that
were shown, there was no way to tell what you actually get.

Since it takes about a month to ship, you might not even get anything, or,
if you do, you get the wrong thing, or, if you get the right thing, it's a
reject for some reason or other ... or maybe ... it's pristine.

But it's _still_ not local, which was the question at hand here.

A lot of what we have to buy here is cheap junk at inflated prices.
Since it's all made in the same place, we might as well buy it at the
best price if we're not in a hurry.

This is a good point that, at a local store, you pay top dollar for what
can be sold at the dollar store for a dollar (e.g., Bic Pens as just one
example).

Maybe they are rejects; but maybe not.
Maybe they're falsely branded; but maybe not.

I know I no longer buy pencils or erasers at the Dollar Store, for example,
because they always suck - but the Bic Pens and high lighters and the nail
polish I use to mark stuff, and the whiteout I use to mark stuff, seems to
work just fine.

You only risk a buck - and - you can trade them in for a credit if you
don't like them (which is one reason I almost always buy locally).

I wish I'd bought more of the $1 Belkin shielded USB cables with the
little LED lights on the ends.

I've had a few things I wish I bought more of, like the fantastic $13
five-gallon jerry jugs for gasoline from Costco. I only bought a half dozen
but I wish I had bought more (I stock gasoline since I live in the
mountains). They are the BEST gasoline cans sold in California, bar none,
and that's saying something because the Blitz and other gas cans I have
from Lowes and Home Depot and Ace all suck like you can't believe.

Back on topic, the arts and crafts store didn't have the kind of glue I
needed when I went there today, but I'll try another one soon.

What I need, seems to be what Jeff spec'd out, which is:
o Ultra thin double-sided tape, or
o High solvent temporary sticky glue.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 2/4/19 5:16 PM, arlen holder wrote:

In the case of Snit, he just*made it up* (again) that
I accuse_anyone_else of being Snit, since I have_never_
done so, so Fox's Mercantile (who_admitted_ being Snit
long ago) is just trying to get out of it.

You're as predictable as the ducks in a shooting gallery.
And every bit as funny as a monkey chained to an organ
grinder.

No amount of your repeated bloviating is going to make
me snit.

And since you seem to have forgotten, you also accused
Peter Wieck of being snit as well.

But that's ok, we're used to you being wrong.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[The Real Bev]

On 02/04/2019 03:16 PM, arlen holder wrote:

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:46:22 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

Yup. I have some a friend gave me from Alibaba orders where he ordered a
ton of them. They were highly unreliable in my Samsung Galaxy S3. I gave up
on them, even though they were huge in capacity.

Crap. The phablet was from an Alibaba Express seller, not ebay. Ebay's
record is now PRISTINE!

I've had a few things I wish I bought more of, like the fantastic $13
five-gallon jerry jugs for gasoline from Costco. I only bought a half dozen
but I wish I had bought more (I stock gasoline since I live in the
mountains). They are the BEST gasoline cans sold in California, bar none,
and that's saying something because the Blitz and other gas cans I have
from Lowes and Home Depot and Ace all suck like you can't believe.

A while back the State of California in its infinite wisdom decreed that
gas cans shall be made in such a way as to benefit the environment while
enraging the users. That may have been removing the little vent on the
opposite side from the spout or something completely different. There
are do-it-yourself or buy-it-yourself solutions to the problem. Years
ago, and our steel jerry cans might have been made by actual Jerries.

Back on topic, the arts and crafts store didn't have the kind of glue I
needed when I went there today, but I'll try another one soon.

What I need, seems to be what Jeff spec'd out, which is:
o Ultra thin double-sided tape, or
o High solvent temporary sticky glue.

--
Cheers, Bev
Horn broken. Watch for finger.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <q3b2tb$j1$1@dont-email.me>, bashley101@gmail.com says...

A while back the State of California in its infinite wisdom decreed that
gas cans shall be made in such a way as to benefit the environment while
enraging the users. That may have been removing the little vent on the
opposite side from the spout or something completely different. There
are do-it-yourself or buy-it-yourself solutions to the problem. Years
ago, and our steel jerry cans might have been made by actual Jerries

It is not so much the vent, but the newer self closing spouts. I do not
live in California,but guess the whole country is suffering. I have
spilled more gas out of a 2 gallon 'safe' spout trying to fill a weed
eater and chain saw than I ever have out of the older vented cans I
have.

 

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 20:19:53 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

A while back the State of California in its infinite wisdom decreed that
gas cans shall be made in such a way as to benefit the environment while
enraging the users. That may have been removing the little vent on the
opposite side from the spout or something completely different. There
are do-it-yourself or buy-it-yourself solutions to the problem. Years
ago, and our steel jerry cans might have been made by actual Jerries.

This is off topic to the original question, but with all the snow today,
I ended up teaching the grandkids how to throw snowballs and to make little
snowmen (since the snow doesn't last more than a few hours out here).

On those California gas cans...

I spent a lot of time on the phone with the CARB folks over the years
o I wrote it up on alt.home.repair at the time in its gory detail
o From memory, they only allowed 6 "brands" in California at the time
o Each had to certify losses of almost zero ounces after six months storage
(I don't remember the specific amount, nor the exact temperature and
pressure conditions, so take that as a general summary).

I believe that the comment by Ralph Mowery is apropos that the EPA "may"
have followed suit in the intervening years since CARB promulgated those
standards.

My remarks to CARB were, at the time, the "irony" that they spec'd that the
gas _stay inside_ the can ... but not that it could reasonably come _out_.

Literally, there is no spec for the ease of gas coming out.
o Where all our complaints are generally about getting the gas out.

As I recall, there were 3 standards that greatly affected the handyman:
1. There is no longer a vent (which, IMHO, isn't really the problem here)
2. There must be child proof caps (which, most of us know how to defeat)
3. The gas must stay inside (they measure loss by weight over time)
Actually #1 is simply a component of #3 I think, but #1 is noticeable.

What I do is very simple.

Since I live in the mountains, and since I'm long retired, as is my wife, I
gas up with 70 gallons or so at Costco once every few weeks.

Then I put the cans along a wall that is about 10 feet high (give or take),
where they stay until we drive a car up to that wall, and siphon the gas
out.

I keep three 10 foot long 1/2 inch OD vinyl hoses (Ace is better than
either Lowes or Home Depot for _clear_ vinyl hose, which yellows over
time), so that I can put 15 gallons in any one tank during any one setting.

You can get away with almost half of that 10 feet but why bother, since the
longer the hose, the more time you have, where 10 feet is just about
perfect.

I have a pipe that I sometimes use to keep the bottom of the hose in the
bottom corner, and a wooden wedge that tilts the cans up a bit at the
front, but that's just finesse.

In addition, I have a modified funnel, with more of that hose taped to the
bottom, so that it's easy to get the last few drops out of the gas cans
(where again, the Blitz cans suck compared to the Costco cans).

Notice that the spout is just a bung cap, where it serves no purpose other
than to cap the can. Hence the best caps are the STRONGEST ones, which tend
to be the type that have the spout that stores inside the can.

The "shiny" plastic caps suck, compared to the dull plastic ones (I'd have
to check the brand to be sure which brand it is), where it's flimsy by way
of comparison.

What I really need, I haven't looked for, is a simple "bung" cap for _all_
my gas cans, since it's kind of a pain that the inside storage caps "drip"
a bit since I fill the cans to the utmost.

Funnily enough, California recently enacted a law (a year or two ago?) that
you can no longer fill cans larger than 6 gallons, but other than that, you
can put as many cans in your car, legally, as you can fit (as long as you
don't exceed FEDERAL (DOT) laws which are 600 POUNDS (not gallons, but
pounds) of "hazardous material" when transporting it).

NOTE: Last I checked, NY was one state which limited gasoline to 25
gallons, which I haven't checked since because I'm in California.

For storage at home, the Fire Marshal doesn't care how many jerry jugs you
have as long as they're in approved containers, and as long as they aren't
stored next to the propane tanks (which, themselves, have to be a certain
distance, I think 10 feet but maybe 15 or 20?) from flammable material.

OSHA doesn't play a role, but they told me exactly how to build a safe
container which has a pan to catch spillage and vents to allow venting and
it's covered otherwise, to prevent exposure to the elements.

The EPA plays a role only when the containers get to a certain size, I
think it was 49 gallons (but I'd have to check), where then you need to
deal with capturing venting during filling, where you can buy at McMasters
for a few hundred bucks a gas dispensing setup for 50-gallon enamel inside
steel drums for storage.

The problem with the 50-gallon drums (which are slightly less for the
reasons stated above, I was told), is that it's really hard to get a
DELIVERY here in California of fewer than about 300 gallons.

There was one more spec, as I recall, which kicks in at 300 gallons when
stored at a residence, but I forget what it was (EPA maybe?).

Years ago I wrote all this up when I first set up my fuel attainment,
storage, and delivery system - which has been working beautifully ever
since.

In fact, my wife in the past 25 years has _never_ been to a gas station.
Her vehicle is always perpetually filled up by me.

Even the neighbors know they can borrow five gallons for their generators
any time they want (our power goes out at least monthly, on average)
although most have their own generators, as I do, which run on separate
1000 gallon propane tanks.

If you want pictures of anything I've said above, just ask, as my
credibility is not like that of the 3 children who frequent this newsgroup
who (a) are stupid, and who (b) don't know anything as a result, and (c)
who just make everything up, and (d) who always prove to act like children.

You know who you the 3 children are since they chitchat so well together:
From: Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
From: John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>
From: "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>
et al.

 

[arlen holder]

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 01:00:28 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

Then I put the cans along a wall that is about 10 feet high (give or take),
where they stay until we drive a car up to that wall, and siphon the gas
out.

Hi The Real Bev,

One more interesting related detail...

BTW, I was once surprised, many years ago, that you can no longer siphon
gas from one vehicle to another (depending on the vehicle, of course), due
not necessarily to "anti-siphon" devices, but due to a "ball" that is
intended to prevent spillage when the vehicle rolls over.

The ball "acts" as an anti-siphon device though - but I was told when I
asked about it on the respective automotive forums, that the main intent of
the ball was to prevent rollover leakage.

That may or may not be the case, but the empirical fact is that it's not
possible to siphon easily from one vehicle to another for many vehicles
(without playing with the fuel injection system anyway).