Where can I get a rooftop TV antenna, installed, on a budget

Guest
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione
 
michaelscipione33@gmail.com wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.
Click to expand...
Why a roof-top antenna? Several good indoor antennas are made that
should work in your situation.
 
On 08/08/2008 12:13 PM, michaelscipione33@gmail.com sent:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione
Click to expand...
Hello Michael:

All DTV signals, come February 17, 2009, will still mostly originate
almost 20 miles NNE of Huntington Park. "UCLANs" suggestion is a very
good way of seeing if you could get acceptable reception now while you
can still test various ideas.

If your GF aunt's home(s) have an attic, perhaps a very good VHF/UHF
combination could be tried.

The antenna installers know the market, and that not much time is
left, so the prices will be premium. So - maybe it's time the aunts
gave some thought to cable or satellite TV.

The below URL is a very interesting site to explore:

<http://www.antennaweb.org/>

Best wishes to you.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 
On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:36:14 -0700, UCLAN <nomail@thanks.org> wrote:

michaelscipione33@gmail.com wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

Why a roof-top antenna? Several good indoor antennas are made that
should work in your situation.
Click to expand...
Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

The lowest cost outdoor rooftop antenna will greatly outperform the
best indoor antenna.
 
Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.
Click to expand...
The below are all cheap outside vhf/uhf/fm antennas. They get their
gain by being directional. Compared to inside antennas they have
height gain and a much less obstructed view of the desired signal.
Hopefully the stations you are interested in are in the same direction
so that a rotor would not be required.

Wineguard and Channelmaster are the two dominant players
as far as TV antennas go.


http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM2001

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3014

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3016

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SPR7032

Installation of such a small antenna should be a breeze. Just
determine where you want to mount it. Among your choices of
mounting hardware is a mast pipe( required) A small tripod, a
side wall mount ect.

You also need transmission cable. The best choice would be a 300 ohm
to 75 ohm outside transformer/balun mounted at the antenna so that
you could run 75 ohm coax to the TV.
 
This antenna complete with universal mount and amplifier may be all
you need if the broadcasters are close enough.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3010KIT&xzoom=Large#xview
 
On 08/08/2008 12:13 PM, michaelscipione33@gmail.com sent:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione
Click to expand...
Please try to tell us something about the aunt's home(s) location with
regards to nearby outdoors obstacles. Are there nearby high trees,
buildings or structures that will interfere with the signal path?
Would a possible outdoor installation have a fairly clear path to the
NNE?

Have you installed the DTV converter box? If so, what have the
results been? How many feet of lead-in cable would be needed between
the exterior antenna and the furthest DTV converter box? Putting a
weakened high channel UHF station through 75 Ohm coaxial cable can
lead to a disappointing result. However, I do it at home with a Radio
Shack VU-190 XR, but I have a fairly short (40 feet) cable run to my
home's VHF/UHF distribution amplifier.

Remember not to be influenced by anything describing an antenna that
says it's been optimized for DTV or HDTV. R.F. is R.F., period.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 
On 08/08/2008 06:21 PM, hr(bob) hofmann@att.net sent:
On Aug 8, 2:13 pm, michaelscipion...@gmail.com wrote:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I foundhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINSTbut
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

It would help if you told us where Huntington Park is , what state,
how far from the transmitters, etc.
Click to expand...
Hello Bob:

Hunting Park is a community of Los Angles County. Huntington Park is
approximately 19 to 20 miles SSW of most of the Los Angeles area's
transmitter sites. I dug this out of the OP post. Santa Monica + the
OP's IP gave it up. Plus, it doesn't hurt to live in California and
have about half a dozen relatives near the OP.

Top of the day to you.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 
On Aug 8, 2:13 pm, michaelscipion...@gmail.com wrote:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I foundhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINSTbut
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione
Click to expand...
It would help if you told us where Huntington Park is , what state,
how far from the transmitters, etc.
 
On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:13:37 -0700, michaelscipione33 wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

snip
Click to expand...

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.

I've built one from scrap wood with heavy copper wire for the elements and
aluminum foil for a reflector. I have it installed in an attic like
position above a kitchen. I am receiving a channel 32 station 23 miles
away with no problems.

hth,

kw


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On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.

I've built one from scrap wood with heavy copper wire for the elements and
aluminum foil for a reflector. I have it installed in an attic like
position above a kitchen. I am receiving a channel 32 station 23 miles
away with no problems.

hth,

kw
Click to expand...
Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:21:47 -0700, 1PW wrote:

On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.


Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt good twinlead would be best. But by mounting in an attic
location you will probably need less than 50 feet of coax. My setup is
truly horrible but still works. I have one uhf station off to the
northeast at 44 degrees while all the rest range from 264 to 307 degrees.
The 44 degree station is covered by an old commercial yagi with corner
reflector and the rest of the uhf stations are covered by the
Gray-Hoverman. I have the two conbined with a splitter in the 'attic'
with a single rg6 coax feeding down to the tv room. A couple of the
stations will revert to vhf frequencies after the Feb 09 switch so I have
another splitter combining with the coax feed from two old vhf antennas
which are pole mounted outside. I figure I'm losing about 9 decibels with
the splitters and being located under a roof but it still works pretty
good! Three of the uhf stations are usually in the green zone on the
converter's meter. One uhf station is usually in the yellow but seems
fine. I'm still waiting for one uhf station to come on the air, so I don't
know about it yet.

kw


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http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
William Sommerwerck wrote:

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles (+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."
Click to expand...
How nice of you to quote back the worst review. How about all of the
"5 Star" reviews, like:

"Before I bought this antenna, I was using a smaller HD antenna that was shady
at besr. I bought the terk at best buy simply because it was open and they
discounted it. I couldn't believe the difference. I scanned the available
channels again, and discovered that I was now getting at least twice the
number of channels that I was getting with my old HD antenna. I highly
recommend the Terk HDTVa. It may be pricey but it's worth it."

or...

"I was really impressed with this antenna. My husband was fed up with the
broken reception we were getting with the Phillips antenna. He was ready for
Direct TV. I gave it a try anyways, I am sure glad I did. The picture is great
on any channels from 2 to 68 and we are receiving more digital stations. No
more broken images and digitization. Great product for the low price."

As I stated, I watched a test of both the amplified and unamplified versions
of this antenna versus the TV's rabbit ear antenna. No contest. The rabbit
ears just couldn't compare.

I'm not saying this is the *best* indoor TV antenna. My point was that the
statement "If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper amplified "As Seen
on TV" antenna would be a waste of money" was not even in the ballpark.

As for me, I use a CM4228 mounted INSIDE in a north facing window, and have
no problem pulling in digital signals from 100 miles away.
 
On 08/09/2008 09:48 AM, Ken Wright sent:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:21:47 -0700, 1PW wrote:

On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.


Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.

I don't doubt good twinlead would be best. But by mounting in an attic
location you will probably need less than 50 feet of coax. My setup is
truly horrible but still works. I have one UHF station off to the
northeast at 44 degrees while all the rest range from 264 to 307 degrees.
The 44 degree station is covered by an old commercial Yagi with corner
reflector and the rest of the UHF stations are covered by the
Gray-Hoverman. I have the two combined with a splitter in the 'attic'
with a single rg6 coax feeding down to the TV room. A couple of the
stations will revert to vhf frequencies after the Feb 09 switch so I have
another splitter combining with the coax feed from two old vhf antennas
which are pole mounted outside. I figure I'm losing about 9 decibels with
the splitters and being located under a roof but it still works pretty
good! Three of the UHF stations are usually in the green zone on the
converter's meter. One UHF station is usually in the yellow but seems
fine. I'm still waiting for one UHF station to come on the air, so I don't
know about it yet.

kw
Click to expand...
What a terrific description! Of course by running RG6, you could tape
it to water pipes and literally run it through mud puddles and snow
without too much of a problem. Cool!

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
 
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 04:46:11 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"UCLAN" <nomail@thanks.org> wrote in message
news:my9nk.15717$1N1.10077@newsfe07.iad...
tnom@mucks.net wrote:

Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

I disagree, strongly. Read some opinions on AVS, or go to:
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/reviews/Terk-HDTVa-reviews.html
I've seen this antenna and the unamplified model in action, along
with ordinary rabbit ears. It was no contest.

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles (+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."
Click to expand...
There's something odd here. All (and I do mean ALL) the HDTV sets
I've seen do NOT include a 300 ohm twin lead connection which would be
required to use a common wabbit ear antenna. Presumabley, he may have
used a coax to twinlead balun adapter, but methinks he would have
mentioned that.

I used that particular type of antenna as an example of lousy design.
It's a log periodic antenna. With 7 short elements, it will have zero
gain at any of the VHF channels, and perhaps 4dBi at best at the UHF
channels. A 12dB RF amp working over the entire UHF band is going to
have a marginal noise figure and is only good for compensating for the
effects of coax loss. If the coax cable is quite short, as it appears
to be in this case, the amp isn't going to improve sensitivity,
especially if there's no signal to start with.

My guess(tm) is that the reviewer had to deal with some lower VHF
channels, which his rabbit ears were able to pickup. 19 HDTV channels
implies a metropolitan area, with strong signals. Methinks he did
something wrong, such as a defective coax cable or not applying DC
power to the amp.

Terk makes junk. I had one of their amplified indoor FM antennas that
actually gave worse audible performance than a piece of wire.
Click to expand...
Maybe. In a strong signal area, a piece of wire shoved into the F
connector antenna jack will work. In a weak signal area, a much
larger outside antenna, an amplifier to compensate for the coax
losses, and possibly an antenna rotator are required.

Erecting an antenna:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html>

Comparison of commercial antennas:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html>

The higher, bigger and uglier the antenna, the better it works.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:15:08 -0700, 1PW <barcrnahgjuvfgyr@nby.pbz>
wrote:

Hunting Park is a community of Los Angles County. Huntington Park is
approximately 19 to 20 miles SSW of most of the Los Angeles area's
transmitter sites. I dug this out of the OP post. Santa Monica + the
OP's IP gave it up. Plus, it doesn't hurt to live in California and
have about half a dozen relatives near the OP.
Click to expand...
I know it well. My father's factory used to be nearby.
<http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.000304,-118.203278&spn=0.172484,0.306244>

Most of the HDTV xmitters for the Smog Angeles area are on Mt Wilson.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Wilson_(California)>
<http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/wilson.html>
If you can see Mt Wilson, you will get good reception. If you have a
bunch of buildings in the way, you'll have problems. The exercise is
to position the antenna so it points to Mt Wilson and does NOT have
any obstructions. My guess(tm) is about 15 degrees from true north.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
William Sommerwerck wrote:

The reason I quoted it was that (assuming it was an honest review, which it
seemed to be) it pointed up the fact that amplified antennas don't always
work very well.
Click to expand...
As I noted, the antenna comes in amplified and non-amplified versions. The
amplified version can have the amplifier switched off without killing all
signals, a fact the reviewer failed to mention. Methinks it was operator
error on his part more than the failure of the antenna.

It's also worth noting that the five-star review you quote was from someone
who did not bother to comare the Terk's performance with a pair of rabbit
ears -- which the first reviewer did.
Click to expand...
In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Those that are using their TV's rabbit ears with a converter box to receive
digital transmissions are not getting all of the signals. Period.
 
In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.
Click to expand...
Who uses rabbit ears for UHF? All TV's with a UHF tuner have a
terminal for hookup of a UHF loop.
 
tnom@mucks.net wrote:

In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Who uses rabbit ears for UHF? All TV's with a UHF tuner have a
terminal for hookup of a UHF loop.
Click to expand...
In your original post of this thread (about receiving DTV signals, many
of which are UHF): "Several indoor antennas work significantly better that
rabbit ears? I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

Rabbit ears for UHF DTV signals? I think not.
 
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