Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic

[Joel Koltner]

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:bliuj.2307$tW.1585@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

Did you guys get the switcher to work as expected?

I've posted the first cut we got back from layout over on ABSE. It, uh,
needed a few modifications, in my opinion and that of another engineer!

---Joel

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:43:34 GMT, "Kevin Aylward" <none@none.com>
wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Kevin Aylward wrote:



Why don't they venture out into other countries? The one huge benefit
of your EC is that you can (AFAIK) easily move to another EC member
country and they cannot deny you the right to work there.


Well, yes. I myself have had several offers in the EU. However... I simply
don't want to go there. I live here in the England. I have a life here.
Personally, I am fed up moving. 10 years in the US, here in the UK
otherwise. getting old. want to stay put. Its hard keeping a band going if
one keeps on moving.

Yep, Bands are always a problem. My father, who will be 90 in
October, doesn't want to move from WV out here to AZ (where it's nice
and warm) because he'd have to leave his hillbilly band ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

 

[Joel Koltner]

Hi Joerg,

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:bliuj.2307$tW.1585@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

Did you guys get the switcher to work as expected?

I'm told that the "real" (4 layer PCB) layout was completed late last week,
although I haven't seen a final layout go around for engineering review yet.
They were doing some last minute swaps due to parts availability, apparently.

---Joel

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Joerg wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote:

Why don't they venture out into other countries? The one huge benefit
of your EC is that you can (AFAIK) easily move to another EC member
country and they cannot deny you the right to work there.

Well, yes. I myself have had several offers in the EU. However... I simply
don't want to go there. I live here in the England. I have a life here.
Personally, I am fed up moving. 10 years in the US, here in the UK
otherwise. getting old. want to stay put. Its hard keeping a band going if
one keeps on moving.

--
Kevin Aylward
kaExtract@kevinaylward.co.uk
www.kevinaylward.co.uk

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

Kevin,

If you're like to move to southern Oregon, U.S., I suspect we'd be happy to
have you and pay you what I imagine you'll find to be a perfectly reasonable
salary.

And I might add that it's a pristine area for someone who loves the
outdoors, hiking, working a large property, clean air etc. Probably not
the right kind of living for city folk (the guys who trust air only when
they can see it ...).

Be sure to bring your guitar and any plush teletubbies you might have.



Seriously, in some parts of the U.S. it is difficult to find anyone with the
specific talents you're after -- I'm not surprised that Joerg's client had
such difficulties.

And that was in Los Angeles. Another in the Bay Area. It's even tougher
for companies in the boonies. I'll never understand why people shun
nature and want to live in a big noisy city.

Which division of TI laid you off? Where were they located?

What do you think of the IEEE with respect to their role in both influencing
educators to create curriculums that are relevant to industry's needs as well
as simply being aware of industry's technical needs in the first place?

I think they should quit wasting resources on that dreaded ABET. It's
not relevant to industry. What is relevant are down-to-earth practical
skills. Luckily they abandoned their licensing push. I found it quite
bizarre that an organization advocated increased regulatory hurdles for
their dues paying constintuency instead of less like everyone else.
Also, they should lean a bit more towards industry instead of academia.

Did you guys get the switcher to work as expected?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joel Koltner]

Kevin,

If you're like to move to southern Oregon, U.S., I suspect we'd be happy to
have you and pay you what I imagine you'll find to be a perfectly reasonable
salary.

Be sure to bring your guitar and any plush teletubbies you might have.



Seriously, in some parts of the U.S. it is difficult to find anyone with the
specific talents you're after -- I'm not surprised that Joerg's client had
such difficulties.

Which division of TI laid you off? Where were they located?

What do you think of the IEEE with respect to their role in both influencing
educators to create curriculums that are relevant to industry's needs as well
as simply being aware of industry's technical needs in the first place?

---Joel

 

[Joerg]

Kevin Aylward wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Kevin Aylward wrote:

If you open up electronics magazines today, the vast majority of
them are centered around microcontrollers and digital stuff which
arguably is much easier to understand and digest than, e.g., some
fancy neutralized tube amplifier for UHF. Even if you open up a
magazine and see, e.g., a guitar amplifier, in all likelihood it's
using someone's all-in-one IC rather than being a discrete design,
right?
Yes. Transistor level discrete design is all but extinct.

Nope, it sure ain't. I make a living with it. What is quickly
dwindling is the required talent pool.

Because the jobs *are* dwindling.

Maybe, and certainly in Western Europe. But not nearly as fast as the
number of people with analog design skills. Else I would not get
requests for help from over there.

Organizations like VDE constantly lament a talent pool shortage. Now
like you I believe that to be mostly baloney but in the world of
discrete analog they have a point. In the other areas they could very
simply fix it by not considering everyone above 45 to be obsolete. Those
are the guys with the real know-how. But there will come a point where
they retire. And then?

Because most students believe
in this extinction myth they gravitate towards chip design, FPGA,
embedded or software. A client had searched a full two years for an
analog guy with discrete design capabilities and finally had to
import one.

I still disagree with this, however, I did say "all but". It is not a myth.

Its a % basis. One off cases are not really relevant. It is a simple fact
that the number of jobs actually available for analogue designers is,
essentially, non existent, despite your note here of how long it took to
find an analogue guy. ...

That was just one example. I can't count how often I got headhunter
calls where they were literally pleading with me to consider giving up
self-employment because this or that client of theirs was completely up
the creek by now. Mostly because they realized that systems design is
highly analog no matter how integrated it may be. That reality usually
hits hardest when the guys come back from their first EMC test. Long,
sad faces, analyzer plots that look like an overgrown redwood forest.

... I truly have a lot experience on this. Shit dude, I
was laid off from TI in 2001. It is the actual facts that matter. Actually
count the number of job advertisements for software, digital design and
analogue design. Then try and estimate how many people actually apply for
each job. In fact, try applying for them. I know as a matter of fact that
typically there will be 20 applicants. Out of say, 100,000 EE jobs in the
UK, I would estimate that that they are may 100 tops open for analogue
positions, and ones close to where one presently lives, maybe 5 max.

I can't comment on the UK situation because I don't know it. But laying
off doesn't mean the demand ain't there. Case in point: My first
employer decided to shut down the whole subsidiary where I was working,
laying off all engineers. So I started setting up my own office, lining
up clients etc. About six hours and thirty minutes after we were all
gone they had their first "Oh dang!" experience. My phone rang, at 6:30
in the morning. Tried to hire me back. Too late, sorry. And so I had my
next client ...

BTW, it was similar with my father. Huge company, decided to lower the
average age. Reality hit them rather quickly.

I will extend this post to EE' in general. There is no shortage of EEs...Its
another myth perpetrated by self interest groups, to wit, employers and
universities. A shortage, for example, is when there is a line 100 long
outside a shop to buy one of the 5 loves of bread. What the real complaint
is, is that there are no one of Einstein's standard willing to work for 3
bucks an hour. Any one who applies for a job is always, as a matter of fact,
competing with 10-50 other Resumes, therefore, there can not possible be a
shortage.

Yes, I've heard that from other European countries as well. They try to
hire engineers on the cheap. Won't work, you get wjhat you pay for.

I have a copy of the latest 2007 ETB (UK Enginerring and Technology Board)
report. It notes several points.

Since 5 years ago, university enrolments for EEs in the UK fell from 5000 to
2800. It notes that only 1/3 of graduating EEs go into EE fields. It notes
that one of the highest graduate unempoyment disiplines is EEs at > 8%,
say compared to law at < 4%. There is a comment, that "the fact that there
is a cliamed shortgage," is a mystery.

Ochams razor gives the simplest reason for the "mystery" of only 1/3 of EEs
go into EE. There are no jobs. Its that simple. If there were, people would
do them. Its a simple fact of market supply and demand.

Why don't they venture out into other countries? The one huge benefit of
your EC is that you can (AFAIK) easily move to another EC member country
and they cannot deny you the right to work there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Joerg wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote:

If you open up electronics magazines today, the vast majority of
them are centered around microcontrollers and digital stuff which
arguably is much easier to understand and digest than, e.g., some
fancy neutralized tube amplifier for UHF. Even if you open up a
magazine and see, e.g., a guitar amplifier, in all likelihood it's
using someone's all-in-one IC rather than being a discrete design,
right?

Yes. Transistor level discrete design is all but extinct.


Nope, it sure ain't. I make a living with it. What is quickly
dwindling is the required talent pool.

Because the jobs *are* dwindling.

Because most students believe
in this extinction myth they gravitate towards chip design, FPGA,
embedded or software. A client had searched a full two years for an
analog guy with discrete design capabilities and finally had to
import one.

I still disagree with this, however, I did say "all but". It is not a myth.

Its a % basis. One off cases are not really relevant. It is a simple fact
that the number of jobs actually available for analogue designers is,
essentially, non existent, despite your note here of how long it took to
find an analogue guy. I truly have a lot experience on this. Shit dude, I
was laid off from TI in 2001. It is the actual facts that matter. Actually
count the number of job advertisements for software, digital design and
analogue design. Then try and estimate how many people actually apply for
each job. In fact, try applying for them. I know as a matter of fact that
typically there will be 20 applicants. Out of say, 100,000 EE jobs in the
UK, I would estimate that that they are may 100 tops open for analogue
positions, and ones close to where one presently lives, maybe 5 max.

I will extend this post to EE' in general. There is no shortage of EEs...Its
another myth perpetrated by self interest groups, to wit, employers and
universities. A shortage, for example, is when there is a line 100 long
outside a shop to buy one of the 5 loves of bread. What the real complaint
is, is that there are no one of Einstein's standard willing to work for 3
bucks an hour. Any one who applies for a job is always, as a matter of fact,
competing with 10-50 other Resumes, therefore, there can not possible be a
shortage.

I have a copy of the latest 2007 ETB (UK Enginerring and Technology Board)
report. It notes several points.

Since 5 years ago, university enrolments for EEs in the UK fell from 5000 to
2800. It notes that only 1/3 of graduating EEs go into EE fields. It notes
that one of the highest graduate unempoyment disiplines is EEs at > 8%,
say compared to law at < 4%. There is a comment, that "the fact that there
is a cliamed shortgage," is a mystery.

Ochams razor gives the simplest reason for the "mystery" of only 1/3 of EEs
go into EE. There are no jobs. Its that simple. If there were, people would
do them. Its a simple fact of market supply and demand.

--
Kevin Aylward
ka@kevinaylward.co.uk
www.kevinaylward.co.uk

 

[Electro Migration]

Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic designers?

If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient analog,
mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what are their
options today?

Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others:

They start with an EE degree - then they ...
- add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10 projects)
- attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely extension)
- take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII)
- build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom classes)
- follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign)
- peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic design)
- they ???

Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better analog,
rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold.

(1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve
their job-related skills?

(2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors, and
materials available on the web that we could collect here?

 

[Electro Migration]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:39:24 -0700, Electro Migration wrote:

(1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve
their job-related skills?

I should clarify, I'm NOT looking for pointers on how to push buttons on
tools - nor am I looking for more theoretical knowledge like that already
given in countless universities - I'm looking for pragmatic design skills
training to augment on-the-job training already given.

That is, can you respond with a suggestion or two pointing to whatever
people or material you know of that could help graduating EEs improve their
job-related analog, rf, or mixed-signal DESIGN skills - outside their
regular job?

Where can custom-ic designers go to improve their design skills?

 

[The Master]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Electro Migration wrote:

I'm looking for pragmatic design skills
training to augment on-the-job training already given.

I know it's not what you are asking for, but I would like to ask new
engineers to pay attention to their layout designers (assuming they don't
do their own layout). I cannot tell you how many times I have been given
a schematic, or series of schematics, that are darn near impossible to
figure out. We have an on going joke about having to "break in" a new
engineer, so they draw schematics properly.

I've actually had one time where I was given a high speed digital
datapath, but the schematics were drawn where each state was arrayed
rather then one schematic for the entire path that's arrayed. In other
words, I had schematics that was 20 inverters. Those 20 outputs went into
another schematic, and were inputs for 20 nor gates... Seriously, I'm not
making that up!

 

[sycochkn]

"The Master" <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote in message
newsine.NEB.4.64.0802012120030.29209@sdf.lonestar.org...

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Electro Migration wrote:

I'm looking for pragmatic design skills
training to augment on-the-job training already given.

I know it's not what you are asking for, but I would like to ask new
engineers to pay attention to their layout designers (assuming they don't
do their own layout). I cannot tell you how many times I have been given
a schematic, or series of schematics, that are darn near impossible to
figure out. We have an on going joke about having to "break in" a new
engineer, so they draw schematics properly.

I've actually had one time where I was given a high speed digital
datapath, but the schematics were drawn where each state was arrayed
rather then one schematic for the entire path that's arrayed. In other
words, I had schematics that was 20 inverters. Those 20 outputs went into
another schematic, and were inputs for 20 nor gates... Seriously, I'm not
making that up!

That is what orcad and the likes does. You still have to do a lot of manual
editing to get it readable.

Bob

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Electro Migration wrote:

Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic
designers?

If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient
analog, mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what
are their options today?

Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others:

They start with an EE degree - then they ...
- add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10
projects)
- attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely
extension)
- take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII)
- build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom
classes)
- follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign)
- peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic
design)
- they ???

Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better
analog, rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold.

(1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve
their job-related skills?

(2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors,
and materials available on the web that we could collect here?

I actually have a problem with the word "training". To put it bluntly, my
view is that if "training" to do analogue design is required, one will never
be much good as an analogue designer. I can't say that I have ever had any
"training" to do analogue i.c. design.

The idea is that you learn and understand the basics that you were taught in
university. e.g. http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html . That is,
although there are a few bits and pieces here and there that may not be
covered, the bulk is all volts and amps. The amount of new knowledge
required is actually quite limited. Its applying what you should already
know, e.g. cascodes, diff pairs, offset calculations, BW, stability etc, to
construct circuits that matters.

You analyse existing circuits, by *yourself* and figure out, by yourself,
why things were done that way. If you can not figure out why something was
done that way by yourself, you wont be able to design new circuits. Thats
what "training" really is in my view.

So, pick something to design. That is, find a full detailed spec for
something, and try and design it in complete detail using Spice. That is how
you learn design, by doing it. No amount of watching someone kick a ball, or
telling you how to kick a about will turn you into a David Beckham. *you*
need to the kick the ball.

--
Kevin Aylward
kaEXTRACT@kevinaylward.co.uk
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk SuperSpice

 

[Mobil]

On Feb 2, 7:52 pm, "Kevin Aylward" <n...@none.com> wrote:

Electro Migration wrote:
Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic
designers?

If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient
analog, mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what
are their options today?

Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others:

They start with an EE degree - then they ...
- add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10
projects)
- attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely
extension)
- take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII)
- build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom
classes)
- follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign)
- peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic
design)
- they ???

Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better
analog, rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold.

(1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve
their job-related skills?

(2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors,
and materials available on the web that we could collect here?

I actually have a problem with the word "training". To put it bluntly, my
view is that if "training" to do analogue design is required, one will never
be much good as an analogue designer. I can't say that I have ever had any
"training" to do analogue i.c. design.

The idea is that you learn and understand the basics that you were taught in
university. e.g.http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html. That is,
although there are a few bits and pieces here and there that may not be
covered, the bulk is all volts and amps. The amount of new knowledge
required is actually quite limited. Its applying what you should already
know, e.g. cascodes, diff pairs, offset calculations, BW, stability etc, to
construct circuits that matters.

You analyse existing circuits, by *yourself* and figure out, by yourself,
why things were done that way. If you can not figure out why something was
done that way by yourself, you wont be able to design new circuits. Thats
what "training" really is in my view.

So, pick something to design. That is, find a full detailed spec for
something, and try and design it in complete detail using Spice. That is how
you learn design, by doing it. No amount of watching someone kick a ball, or
telling you how to kick a about will turn you into a David Beckham. *you*
need to the kick the ball.

--
Kevin Aylward
kaEXTR...@kevinaylward.co.ukwww.kevinaylward.co.ukwww.anasoft.co.ukSuperSpice

Berkeley's class about Analog and RF design is quite good and there're
videos in the website.
Have a look at them: EE142, EE140 and EE240

 

[Joel Koltner]

"Kevin Aylward" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:cbWoj.365$wH5.93@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

I actually have a problem with the word "training".

You have a problem withi the word "training" but you suggest people insure
they understand the basics they were taught in university?

In my book, university is just another word for (relatively broad) "training."
Hence the suggestion that "if training is required, you'll never be any good
as an analog designer" is absurd; you might as well state, "if you have to go
to university, you'll never be any good as an analog designer."

Since the quality of universities varies greatly, how well "trained" anyone is
in the basics after graduating varies greatly as well. Individuals who wish
to improve their skill sets should be lauded, and while I agree with you that
a lot of "training" is of the "do it yourself" nature, I also think there's a
lot to be said for studying under the mentorship of a good designer.

---Joel

 

[sycochkn]

"Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b%Hpj.144$oO4.73@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...

"Kevin Aylward" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:cbWoj.365$wH5.93@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
In my book, university is just another word for (relatively broad)
"training."

The OP wants to learn to apply that better.

The quality of universities varies greatly, how well "trained" anyone is
in the basics

Does a university no matter what the quality, cover the same basic material?

A lot of "training" is of the "do it yourself" nature.

Probably most of it.

there's a lot to be said for studying under the mentorship of a good
designer.

Is that always available to an indidvidual?

---Joel

 

[Joel Koltner]

"sycochkn" <sycochkn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13qekb03tholha1@corp.supernews.com...

Does a university no matter what the quality, cover the same basic material?

At least in the U.S., I think it's a safe statement that the majority of
engineering schools follow ABET standards and therefore do attempt to cover
the same basic material.

How well they actually do that varies greatly, of course.

there's a lot to be said for studying under the mentorship of a good
designer.
Is that always available to an indidvidual?

Unfortunately, no... although it doesn't occur to many new college grads that
it's really even an option. There was certainly something to be said for the
old "apprenticeship" style of training.

---Joel

 

[Kevin Aylward]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Kevin Aylward" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:cbWoj.365$wH5.93@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
I actually have a problem with the word "training".

You have a problem withi the word "training" but you suggest people
insure they understand the basics they were taught in university?

You don't get taught in uni. Someone writes a few bits and pieces on the
board, and you copy it.

In my book, university is just another word for (relatively broad)
"training." Hence the suggestion that "if training is required,
you'll never be any good as an analog designer" is absurd; you might
as well state, "if you have to go to university, you'll never be any
good as an analog designer."

I disagree. In my view, all the really good analogue designers, essentially,
trained themselvs.

In my uni days I had, maybe, a few 1 hour classes, like, this is a cascode,
this is an emitter follower, out of 4 years of "training". Sure, I got
Maxwell's equations, digital design and shit, but that was about it. I
learnt detailed transistor level design simply by looking at circuits, and
designing them.

A "good" university e.g. Cambridge, might not even have any taught courses
at all, just like doing a PhD, you teach yourself. An instructor is only
there for basic guidance, not to teach you. Its er.. called being a mature
student.

Since the quality of universities varies greatly, how well "trained"
anyone is in the basics after graduating varies greatly as well.
Individuals who wish to improve their skill sets should be lauded,

Yes, but if you want a job done right, do it yourself. Even when I play the
guitar, if I was ever "taught" a song, I would forget it. Teaching yourself
and it sticks in. Get books, read and understand them. If you don't
understand some bit, ask someone that might know, but don't expect that a
"teacher" will be able to give you anything but the basics to get started.

The point is that in actually reality, if you are not a "bod" i.e someone
that learns this stuff on their own, in my view, you just wont become much
good as an analogue designer. That's just my experience. Like, you could
never teach me to paint. I just can't do it. Like, painters teach themselves

and while I agree with you that a lot of "training" is of the "do it
yourself" nature, I also think there's a lot to be said for studying
under the mentorship of a good designer.

The problem is that that a good designer generally don't have the time.
Analogue design takes way much, way too much to explain all the details that
actually have to be done to make a circuit work, and actually manufacturable
..

--
Kevin Aylward
kaEXTRACT@kevinaylward.co.uk
www.kevinaylward.co.uk

 

[Joel Koltner]

Kevin -- I do agree with much of what you're said; we're not really that far
apart, I think, in our beliefs. Thanks for the post...

One thing I'd mention is that "learning by looking at circuits and designing
them" is not as applicable today as it was in, e.g., the '70s: Circuits today
are very complex to take in all at once (you can't just open up the back of a
cell phone and figure much out...). Recall the discussion about...

-- Whether or not even the most brilliant minds of the '60s would be able to
figure out how a modern hard drive worked (not so clearcut!)
-- The case where some guy's friend wanted to make a 3D computer game and so
just started entering "code" such as "fire missiles at enemies" in a text
editor and actually thought he was "pretty close" to making something work!

If you open up electronics magazines today, the vast majority of them are
centered around microcontrollers and digital stuff which arguably is much
easier to understand and digest than, e.g., some fancy neutralized tube
amplifier for UHF. Even if you open up a magazine and see, e.g., a guitar
amplifier, in all likelihood it's using someone's all-in-one IC rather than
being a discrete design, right?

Kids who don't have some "guidance" -- and access to a good library! -- are
definitely at a bit of a disadvantage today when it comes to learning analog
design, IMO.

---Joel

P.S. -- Kudos for putting up your own web pages on analog design. Ditto to
folks like Jim, Joerg, and John who do similarly and/or spend a significant
amount of their personal time helping others to learn.

 

[Joerg]

Electro Migration wrote:

Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic designers?

If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient analog,
mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what are their
options today?

Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others:

They start with an EE degree - then they ...
- add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10 projects)
- attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely extension)
- take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII)
- build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom classes)
- follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign)
- peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic design)
- they ???

Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better analog,
rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold.

(1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve
their job-related skills?

(2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors, and
materials available on the web that we could collect here?

Only this way: Build stuff. Buy parts at Digikey or other places, fire
up the soldering iron, put it together, make it work. IMHO you cannot
become a good analog IC designer unless you have a lot of experience
with discrete circuits under the belt.

Nowadays I encounter a lot of fresh grads who think that mastering SPICE
and VHDL is all they need. Wrong. If someone can't solder I usually
advise my clients against hiring that engineer and keep looking.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/