What software to draw schematics?

[JeffM]

George wrote:

I found this summary of what's out there:
http://www.fritzing.org/development/market-overview ...

A nice page by Andre Knoerig; it is more current than many others.

It appears he wants to produce his own software
to enter the low-cost ECAD market niche.
....but the page is sketchy WRT Cadsoft's limitations.

JeffM wrote:

If you are planning to use other people's libraries,
EAGLE is the WORST choice you could make;
others have found their labors unusable (DRM):
::[link re-inserted]

::**The Downside of EAGLE** by Markus Zingg
::http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/browse_frm/thread/
f794e82d26b59e18/d7cf4149edb93ac7?q=*-*-website+reuse+paying.*+*-I-
will-switch+cracked-*+*.would.not.help.*+zzz+after-*-*-version-*+copied
+*.*.unlock.*.designs+*-*-*-*-exchange-*-*-*-*-third-party+reused+qq+*-
*-single-bit-*-*-*-*+useless+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened
::

...And it appears to confirm what I've noticed elsewhere
- that Eagle is probably the most widely used
among the occasional-use/hobbiest crowd where I would be.

As I pointed out, reusing others' library components
with recent[1] versions of Cadsoft EAGLE is a minefield.

My intuition is that a lot of those data points are old posts
going back years and years and years
that reflect a distortion of the "installed base"
--and don't reflect the *current* reality.[1]

If, OTOH, you look at the trend of *new* users,
the trend is moving in the **open source** direction.
Most folks don't like the notion of *changing the rules down the road*
as Cadsoft has done surreptitiously.

e.g. KiCAD doesn't have the size/layers limitations of a demo
AND IT DOESN'T LOCK YOU OUT OF YOUR FILES.

Here's an extreme example of "No limitations" (gEDA)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_frm/thread/dc3c1272fe977f38/90ef00cfb5444c09?q=50-something-layers+*-*-square+zz-zz+qq+boards-up-to
and another (gEDA again)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.cad/browse_frm/thread/e87733628a7eb0b8/48de1eeeb67614b2?q=I-tested-it-with-a-56-layer-board+it-worked
..
..
[1] Those who are aware of the more-recently-added DRM
are avoiding EAGLE
(and, as Markus' post shows, old users are abandoning EAGLE).

Maybe you've used Windoze so long
that you are used to being treated like a thief.
I find that most people don't like that sort of behavior.
Giving money/support to companies/people who treat you badly
seems foolish to me.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:IvwhatAg7dkJ:www.getopenoffice.org/ernieball.html+evening.news+Linux+Ernie.Ball+Business.Software.Alliance+Microsoft+$65000+Nail.Your.Boss+$35000+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-treats-us-poorly+unlicensed.copies+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-to-fight-them

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

"Bob Monsen" <rcmonsen@gmail.com> wrote in message
newscBAj.4890$fX7.3932@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message news:77a4t3dq27kpel6u47itcnobgpnvjt38aj@4ax.com...

I've spent the last hour or so running sims in LT Spice, and the
schematic editor is OK. It does have the annoying feature that it can
leave line segments dangling and doesn't move parts very
intelligently. The ascii format is indeed cool.


Is this some kind of external program? I remember Jon something wrote an
LTSpice to ascii translator. Or, is it built in now? If so, how to I
access it?

The ASCII format is the default for LTSpice (SwitcherCAD SwCAD III), and
you can just select it from the File|Open menu to pen the schematic and
view it. For an ASCII file posted on usenet, you must select the text, and
copy and paste into a text file with .ASC extension.

The component and line moves are a little tricky, but they can be cleaned
up once you get used to the way it works. They have a "Drag" function that
usually maintains connectivity. It even works with group moves. This is a
serious shortcoming with many schematic editors I have evaluated. It's one
reason I chose PADS over Eagle, Protel, Kicad, and Electronics Workbench.

I am thinking about making a converter between LTspice and PADS. I already
made a converter from Futurenet to PADS, but it has only limited function.

Futurenet was made Public Domain about 15 years ago, when DATAIO abandoned
it, and they sent me their latest version on a dozen 3.5" floppies. It's
really an excellent schematic editor, but it runs on MSDOS and it has
mostly a keyboard interface. But it has DRC and can export netlists that
can be read by some PCB programs (or can be converted). I made a FN2PADS
utility that did the job when I was still using Futurenet. I can email the
program files if anyone is interested. It does not have a direct print
feature (unless you have an ancient dot matrix printer), but it can plot in
HPGL format, which then can be read by many CAD programs like TurboCAD, and
from there you can print or create PDFs.

If you get a version of PADS Logic before their 2005 releases, it does not
require the dongle to run. The newer versions are limited, but I think they
still serve as a viewer, and you might even be able to print. Mostly they
disabled output commands, particularly SAVE, but I think there is a "back
door" where you can export ASCII if you do it using a VB script or an
external program such as my "PADSplus" that accesses the automation
interface.

Paul

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:49:52 -0800, "Bob Monsen" <rcmonsen@gmail.com>
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:77a4t3dq27kpel6u47itcnobgpnvjt38aj@4ax.com...

I've spent the last hour or so running sims in LT Spice, and the
schematic editor is OK. It does have the annoying feature that it can
leave line segments dangling and doesn't move parts very
intelligently. The ascii format is indeed cool.


Is this some kind of external program? I remember Jon something wrote an
LTSpice to ascii translator. Or, is it built in now? If so, how to I access
it?

Thanks,
Bob Monsen

LT Spice has a schematic editor built in, and its native "save" file
format is ascii. People often paste that into text-only newsgroup
posts, in place of "ascii art" schematics.

Here's one I did today:


Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -736 112 -752 112
WIRE -704 112 -736 112
WIRE -576 112 -624 112
WIRE -144 112 -576 112
WIRE 48 112 -64 112
WIRE 208 112 112 112
WIRE 272 112 208 112
WIRE 448 112 352 112
WIRE -576 144 -576 112
WIRE -752 192 -752 112
WIRE 448 192 448 112
WIRE -224 224 -352 224
WIRE -144 224 -224 224
WIRE 48 224 -64 224
WIRE 176 224 128 224
WIRE 208 224 208 112
WIRE 208 224 176 224
WIRE -352 256 -352 224
WIRE -576 272 -576 224
WIRE -400 272 -576 272
WIRE -576 288 -576 272
WIRE -400 320 -432 320
WIRE 448 352 448 272
WIRE -752 384 -752 272
WIRE -576 384 -576 352
WIRE -432 384 -432 320
WIRE -352 384 -352 336
FLAG -752 384 0
FLAG -432 384 0
FLAG -352 384 0
FLAG 176 224 OUT
FLAG -224 224 AMP
FLAG -576 384 0
FLAG -736 112 GEN
FLAG 448 352 0
SYMBOL res -48 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 46.5
SYMBOL res -48 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 50
SYMBOL ind 32 240 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0
WINDOW 3 -9 54 VBottom 0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 235ľ
SYMBOL cap 112 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.1ľ
SYMBOL res -608 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 3
SYMBOL voltage -752 176 R0
WINDOW 3 -377 104 Left 0
WINDOW 123 -249 11 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 1 10u 1n 1n 100u 300u 2)
SYMATTR Value2 AC 1 0
SYMBOL res 368 96 R90
WINDOW 0 -18 51 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 50
SYMBOL e -352 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName E1
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMBOL cap -592 288 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 16p
SYMBOL res -592 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL voltage 448 176 R0
WINDOW 3 -392 128 Left 0
WINDOW 123 -1359 11 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 0.25 200u 1n 1n 50u 300u 2)
SYMATTR Value2 AC 1 0
TEXT -1072 224 Left 0 !;ac dec 20 1000 100k
TEXT -1040 128 Left 0 !.tran 0 500u 0
TEXT -496 192 Left 0 ;10 MHz equiv BW
TEXT 96 352 Left 0 ;Gen2 simulates reflection
TEXT -984 352 Left 0 ;Main step generator


You could cut this out of this post, save as CIRCUIT.ASC, and LT Spice
would open it, display as a schematic, and run it.


John

 

[Bob Monsen]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:ufp6t3lbd5an9lfusbmh4ifhj13so1sh6k@4ax.com...

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:49:52 -0800, "Bob Monsen" <rcmonsen@gmail.com
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:77a4t3dq27kpel6u47itcnobgpnvjt38aj@4ax.com...

I've spent the last hour or so running sims in LT Spice, and the
schematic editor is OK. It does have the annoying feature that it can
leave line segments dangling and doesn't move parts very
intelligently. The ascii format is indeed cool.


Is this some kind of external program? I remember Jon something wrote an
LTSpice to ascii translator. Or, is it built in now? If so, how to I
access
it?

Thanks,
Bob Monsen



LT Spice has a schematic editor built in, and its native "save" file
format is ascii. People often paste that into text-only newsgroup
posts, in place of "ascii art" schematics.

Here's one I did today:


Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -736 112 -752 112
WIRE -704 112 -736 112
WIRE -576 112 -624 112
WIRE -144 112 -576 112
WIRE 48 112 -64 112
WIRE 208 112 112 112
WIRE 272 112 208 112
WIRE 448 112 352 112
WIRE -576 144 -576 112
WIRE -752 192 -752 112
WIRE 448 192 448 112
WIRE -224 224 -352 224
WIRE -144 224 -224 224
WIRE 48 224 -64 224
WIRE 176 224 128 224
WIRE 208 224 208 112
WIRE 208 224 176 224
WIRE -352 256 -352 224
WIRE -576 272 -576 224
WIRE -400 272 -576 272
WIRE -576 288 -576 272
WIRE -400 320 -432 320
WIRE 448 352 448 272
WIRE -752 384 -752 272
WIRE -576 384 -576 352
WIRE -432 384 -432 320
WIRE -352 384 -352 336
FLAG -752 384 0
FLAG -432 384 0
FLAG -352 384 0
FLAG 176 224 OUT
FLAG -224 224 AMP
FLAG -576 384 0
FLAG -736 112 GEN
FLAG 448 352 0
SYMBOL res -48 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 46.5
SYMBOL res -48 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 50
SYMBOL ind 32 240 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0
WINDOW 3 -9 54 VBottom 0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 235ľ
SYMBOL cap 112 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.1ľ
SYMBOL res -608 96 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 3
SYMBOL voltage -752 176 R0
WINDOW 3 -377 104 Left 0
WINDOW 123 -249 11 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 1 10u 1n 1n 100u 300u 2)
SYMATTR Value2 AC 1 0
SYMBOL res 368 96 R90
WINDOW 0 -18 51 VBottom 0
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 50
SYMBOL e -352 240 R0
SYMATTR InstName E1
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMBOL cap -592 288 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 16p
SYMBOL res -592 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL voltage 448 176 R0
WINDOW 3 -392 128 Left 0
WINDOW 123 -1359 11 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 0.25 200u 1n 1n 50u 300u 2)
SYMATTR Value2 AC 1 0
TEXT -1072 224 Left 0 !;ac dec 20 1000 100k
TEXT -1040 128 Left 0 !.tran 0 500u 0
TEXT -496 192 Left 0 ;10 MHz equiv BW
TEXT 96 352 Left 0 ;Gen2 simulates reflection
TEXT -984 352 Left 0 ;Main step generator


You could cut this out of this post, save as CIRCUIT.ASC, and LT Spice
would open it, display as a schematic, and run it.


John

I thought you were talking about ascii schematic drawings...

Thanks,
Bob Monsen

 

[Ken Moffett]

"BobW" <nimby_NEEDSPAM@roadrunner.com> wrote in
news:b9GdnbSKLKASF03anZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@giganews.com:

"George" <gh424NO824SPAM@cox.net> wrote in message
news:VqWzj.62510$Ft5.7279@newsfe15.lga...
Is there a good, small freeware program for XP for drawing
schematics? I don't need to route boards, so I wouldn't
need that function. But it would be nice if it had a
library of standard symbols.



The one from www.expresspcb.com will do nicely. You'll need
their ExpressSch package. I don't know if you need to
download the pcb package, too.

The only odd thing is getting used to clicking then hitting
the spacebar to end a wire connection.

Bob

Bob,

After left clicking for the last end point, just right ckick to
stop.

ExpressPCB is great for good looking schematics, easy to make
custom components, and FREE.

Ken