What size of surface-mount components is good for a beginner

On Mon, 21 May 2018 14:10:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 05/21/18 11:13, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article <6ho1gdp0nm6k3j17mk9ckd5ju56vlt6akj@4ax.com>,
Ray Otwell <rayRemoveThisotwell@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm continually improving my technique with soldering, but I have an
essential tremor that makes fine work difficult without having to
brace the iron against something.

The number one problem I see in students (of all ages) learning to
solder is getting them to actually (they've had the noises go in their
ear and out the other, rather than hearing it, usually) relax and rest
the tip of the iron on the work. Your hand can jiggle all over the place
(or as JL says, you can arrange your workspace with some sort of wrist
rest to reduce that motion) if the iron tip is on the place it needs to
be.

As training, solder without any "grip" on the iron at all - let the
handle lay on your flat, open palm - most folks start out with a death
grip on it, and if I do that, I can't hold the tip still, either. I
don't usually solder like that, but I have a very relaxed grip on it.

Like these folks?

https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/HowNotToSolder.jpg
Click to expand...

Her name is Daenerys.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On 05/23/18 12:37, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2018 14:10:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 05/21/18 11:13, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article <6ho1gdp0nm6k3j17mk9ckd5ju56vlt6akj@4ax.com>,
Ray Otwell <rayRemoveThisotwell@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm continually improving my technique with soldering, but I have an
essential tremor that makes fine work difficult without having to
brace the iron against something.

The number one problem I see in students (of all ages) learning to
solder is getting them to actually (they've had the noises go in their
ear and out the other, rather than hearing it, usually) relax and rest
the tip of the iron on the work. Your hand can jiggle all over the place
(or as JL says, you can arrange your workspace with some sort of wrist
rest to reduce that motion) if the iron tip is on the place it needs to
be.

As training, solder without any "grip" on the iron at all - let the
handle lay on your flat, open palm - most folks start out with a death
grip on it, and if I do that, I can't hold the tip still, either. I
don't usually solder like that, but I have a very relaxed grip on it.

Like these folks?

https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/HowNotToSolder.jpg

Her name is Daenerys.
Click to expand...

The last TV show I followed was probably Hogan's Heroes, so I had to
search the interwebs to find that one. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Who only watches TV in hotel rooms, and even then only when he's too
cooked to read a book or slag people off on Usenet)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
Thank you everybody for all the great advice!

I really appreciate all the input and I will try to pay it forward to
someone else that needs help learning.

Ray
 
On Wed, 23 May 2018 14:01:09 -0400, Gone Postal
<gone_postal@it.doesn't.exist> wrote:

Thank you everybody for all the great advice!

I really appreciate all the input and I will try to pay it forward to
someone else that needs help learning.

Ray
Click to expand...

Yarg. There I go again. Sorry about that.

Ray
 
On Wed, 23 May 2018 13:18:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 05/23/18 12:37, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2018 14:10:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 05/21/18 11:13, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article <6ho1gdp0nm6k3j17mk9ckd5ju56vlt6akj@4ax.com>,
Ray Otwell <rayRemoveThisotwell@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm continually improving my technique with soldering, but I have an
essential tremor that makes fine work difficult without having to
brace the iron against something.

The number one problem I see in students (of all ages) learning to
solder is getting them to actually (they've had the noises go in their
ear and out the other, rather than hearing it, usually) relax and rest
the tip of the iron on the work. Your hand can jiggle all over the place
(or as JL says, you can arrange your workspace with some sort of wrist
rest to reduce that motion) if the iron tip is on the place it needs to
be.

As training, solder without any "grip" on the iron at all - let the
handle lay on your flat, open palm - most folks start out with a death
grip on it, and if I do that, I can't hold the tip still, either. I
don't usually solder like that, but I have a very relaxed grip on it.

Like these folks?

https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/HowNotToSolder.jpg

Her name is Daenerys.



The last TV show I followed was probably Hogan's Heroes, so I had to
search the interwebs to find that one. ;)
Click to expand...

I basically never watch TV, but I have seen snippets of GoT on
Youtube. Lotta killing. Some really great voices.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
In article <GPSdnemlv6ERlp7GnZ2dnUU7-dnNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Like these folks?

https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/HowNotToSolder.jpg
https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/HowNotToDesolder.jpg

;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

Uh, nope. Nutting like ignorant photographers and models. Let's plug
those in, shall we?

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
 
In article <zPGdnf7RzPsE0mLHnZ2dnUU7-eXNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net says...
Make sure you get a _stereo_ microscope and not just a _binocular_ one.
Stereo scopes provide normal stereopsis, i.e. your eyes look at the
field from different directions so that you get depth perception. It's
cool and useful to be able to look around stuff, and the Mantis is great
for that.
Click to expand...

A good micorscope it one of the keys.

I recommend an Amscope SE400z for the price of just under $ 200 shipped.
With it and the 10x lenses I have no trouble with the smaller parts.

If th eparts are close together on the board, some kapton tape works
well to shield the other parts. Just put a big piece over the area and
take one of the xacto knives and cut out the tape over the part you want
to use the hot air on.

Get some old computer boards and practice on removing and replacing the
parts.

I am 68 and have no real problem working on the boards. My main problem
is that I take off the glasses to look through the scope and have
trouble seeing the parts to pick up and move from the holders to back
under the microscope.
 
On 06/03/2018 01:50 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <zPGdnf7RzPsE0mLHnZ2dnUU7-eXNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net says...

Make sure you get a _stereo_ microscope and not just a _binocular_ one.
Stereo scopes provide normal stereopsis, i.e. your eyes look at the
field from different directions so that you get depth perception. It's
cool and useful to be able to look around stuff, and the Mantis is great
for that.




A good micorscope it one of the keys.

I recommend an Amscope SE400z for the price of just under $ 200 shipped.
With it and the 10x lenses I have no trouble with the smaller parts.

If th eparts are close together on the board, some kapton tape works
well to shield the other parts. Just put a big piece over the area and
take one of the xacto knives and cut out the tape over the part you want
to use the hot air on.
Click to expand...

I normally use hot tweezers for small stuff (Rs, Cs, SOT23s) and an
axe-blade tip for two-row IC packages. For inconvenient stuff such as
PLCCs I usually just cut the leads with a scalpel (from underneath, so
as not to damage the board). I do use hot air occasionally, but it
isn't my go-to tool.

There are other cute tricks, such as threading some stainless steel
music wire between the leads and the package of a big SOIC, and running
the iron down the row while pulling on the wire. Works like a zipper.

Get some old computer boards and practice on removing and replacing the
parts.
Click to expand...

+1.

I am 68 and have no real problem working on the boards. My main problem
is that I take off the glasses to look through the scope and have
trouble seeing the parts to pick up and move from the holders to back
under the microscope.
Click to expand...

I don't know if Amscope has high eye-relief eyepieces, but other makers
do. Those let you keep your glasses on while using the scope.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 13:02:45 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 06/03/2018 01:50 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <zPGdnf7RzPsE0mLHnZ2dnUU7-eXNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net says...

Make sure you get a _stereo_ microscope and not just a _binocular_ one.
Stereo scopes provide normal stereopsis, i.e. your eyes look at the
field from different directions so that you get depth perception. It's
cool and useful to be able to look around stuff, and the Mantis is great
for that.




A good micorscope it one of the keys.

I recommend an Amscope SE400z for the price of just under $ 200 shipped.
With it and the 10x lenses I have no trouble with the smaller parts.

If th eparts are close together on the board, some kapton tape works
well to shield the other parts. Just put a big piece over the area and
take one of the xacto knives and cut out the tape over the part you want
to use the hot air on.

I normally use hot tweezers for small stuff (Rs, Cs, SOT23s) and an
axe-blade tip for two-row IC packages. For inconvenient stuff such as
PLCCs I usually just cut the leads with a scalpel (from underneath, so
as not to damage the board). I do use hot air occasionally, but it
isn't my go-to tool.

There are other cute tricks, such as threading some stainless steel
music wire between the leads and the package of a big SOIC, and running
the iron down the row while pulling on the wire. Works like a zipper.


Get some old computer boards and practice on removing and replacing the
parts.

+1.


I am 68 and have no real problem working on the boards. My main problem
is that I take off the glasses to look through the scope and have
trouble seeing the parts to pick up and move from the holders to back
under the microscope.

I don't know if Amscope has high eye-relief eyepieces, but other makers
do. Those let you keep your glasses on while using the scope.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

Thank you both!

Sadly, $200 is very outside of my basic budget I'm have to with. If I
get into this in much depth I will certainly consider saving up for
one.

I now have a 0.5 mm tip for my iron and I've practiced using the sides
for my regular soldering. As soon as I make some sort of fulcrum to
steady my iron against I will move to the surface mount items and
practice, practice, practice!

I've also been watching various You Tube videos on soldering SMD. I'm
also starting to pick up on which ideas might work and which ones
probably won't.

I've saved up a few boards to practice with that have a number surface
mounted components, I'm planning to hit that this weekend!

Thanks a lot!


Ray
 
On 09/06/18 01:21, Ray Otwell wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 13:02:45 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 06/03/2018 01:50 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <zPGdnf7RzPsE0mLHnZ2dnUU7-eXNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net says...

Make sure you get a _stereo_ microscope and not just a _binocular_ one.
Stereo scopes provide normal stereopsis, i.e. your eyes look at the
field from different directions so that you get depth perception. It's
cool and useful to be able to look around stuff, and the Mantis is great
for that.




A good micorscope it one of the keys.

I recommend an Amscope SE400z for the price of just under $ 200 shipped.
With it and the 10x lenses I have no trouble with the smaller parts.

If th eparts are close together on the board, some kapton tape works
well to shield the other parts. Just put a big piece over the area and
take one of the xacto knives and cut out the tape over the part you want
to use the hot air on.

I normally use hot tweezers for small stuff (Rs, Cs, SOT23s) and an
axe-blade tip for two-row IC packages. For inconvenient stuff such as
PLCCs I usually just cut the leads with a scalpel (from underneath, so
as not to damage the board). I do use hot air occasionally, but it
isn't my go-to tool.

There are other cute tricks, such as threading some stainless steel
music wire between the leads and the package of a big SOIC, and running
the iron down the row while pulling on the wire. Works like a zipper.


Get some old computer boards and practice on removing and replacing the
parts.

+1.


I am 68 and have no real problem working on the boards. My main problem
is that I take off the glasses to look through the scope and have
trouble seeing the parts to pick up and move from the holders to back
under the microscope.

I don't know if Amscope has high eye-relief eyepieces, but other makers
do. Those let you keep your glasses on while using the scope.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Thank you both!

Sadly, $200 is very outside of my basic budget I'm have to with. If I
get into this in much depth I will certainly consider saving up for
one.

I now have a 0.5 mm tip for my iron and I've practiced using the sides
for my regular soldering. As soon as I make some sort of fulcrum to
steady my iron against I will move to the surface mount items and
practice, practice, practice!

I've also been watching various You Tube videos on soldering SMD. I'm
also starting to pick up on which ideas might work and which ones
probably won't.

I've saved up a few boards to practice with that have a number surface
mounted components, I'm planning to hit that this weekend!
Click to expand...

If you have a basic budget and don't know what you really
need, then it is probably worth doing quick cheap experiments.

Look for head mounted magnifying visors. There are many
available under many names, but here's one example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Headband-Magnifier-Magnifying-battery/dp/B01D86CQF4

I find them sufficient for my 7th-decade eyes.

Key points:
- use with/without any reading glasses
- variable magnification for different tasks/eyes
- works at any orientation, e.g. peering horizontally
into cabinets
- cheap
 
On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 11:01:05 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/21/18 09:23, George Herold wrote:

Phil, what's wrong with the cheap tweezers from India? I think that
is what I mostly use. Is there something I'm missing?

I suggest you drop $25 on a Swiss pair and see. ;)

Mainly the poorly-ground points that aren't reliably parallel, so that
parts tend to squirt out like the way kids shoot cherry pits from their
thumb and fist. Also they tend to be magnetic stainless, which is a
pain with nickel end caps.
Click to expand...

....and inductors.

A demagnetizer on the table with the stereo microscope is essential.
Yean, even Erem (swiss) needed the demagnetizer.
 
On 06/13/18 19:45, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 11:01:05 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/21/18 09:23, George Herold wrote:

Phil, what's wrong with the cheap tweezers from India? I think that
is what I mostly use. Is there something I'm missing?

I suggest you drop $25 on a Swiss pair and see. ;)

Mainly the poorly-ground points that aren't reliably parallel, so that
parts tend to squirt out like the way kids shoot cherry pits from their
thumb and fist. Also they tend to be magnetic stainless, which is a
pain with nickel end caps.

...and inductors.

A demagnetizer on the table with the stereo microscope is essential.
Yean, even Erem (swiss) needed the demagnetizer.
Click to expand...

My $25 Swiss ones are 304 stainless. Look for "antimagnetic"
laser-etched on the side. You can also get titanium ones. One useful
tip is to take a miniature binder clip and slide it up and down on the
back end of the arms to make adjustable self-closing tweezers. That way
you don't lose stuff when you change your grip.

The $5 Aven antimagnetic stainless ones from Digikey are also OK.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
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