what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

[devnull]

On 2/19/19 11:27 PM, micky wrote:

BTW, I've been on 3 trips in the last 2 years totaling 160 days and no
one has bothered my house at all. I just want to keep it that way.

Life is a constant battle of keeping burglars out of my house and democrats out of my paycheck. Democrats suck!

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 6:58:37 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

Depending on the vintage of the device:

Heat and vibration are the primary culprits. Followed by temperature differences - that is, on a battery set or a low-volt portable tube set, heat from the electronics is not a factor. But a 10-degree change in ambient temperature can cause drift.

Then, of course, it can be changes in the time-of-day and environmental effects, local sources of interference and similar. At our summer house, FM is problematic during the day (we are in a valley with at least two mountain ridges between us and the nearest transmitter), but crystal clear at night from several stations. Yes, I know FM is line-of-sight, I am only reporting what is the actual case.

"Modern" Digitally tuned devices should not drift at all. And perhaps you should target such devices for your needs while you are away.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[rbowman]

On 02/19/2019 09:07 PM, danny burstein wrote:

In <gd415sFjj0uU1@mid.individual.net> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

Thunderbird/45.6.0
In-Reply-To: <41vo6e5v4nb6oa3h14cico9n7supjmu4pa@4ax.com
Xref: panix sci.electronics.repair:586980 alt.home.repair:1823920

On 02/19/2019 04:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

How old and crappy are your radios? Have you made it up to a
superheterodyne or are you still in the regenerative era?

Me, I'm still waiting to upgrade to using a stainless
steel razor blade for mine...

Probably won't work. A Gillette Blue Blade is best but if you are a
manly man a rusty blade or one you've heated with a torch to get a layer
of oxide will do it.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 19 Feb 2019 23:17:21 -0500, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

In article <qpbp6edoacae7eirg3t0h46q7plgfq0vj9@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...


Yep, that's a problem. But you can't do much about it.

So are you saying that AM is worse than FM, because AM has no AFC?

Or AM and FM are both a problem?




Usually AM will be worse because there is no AFC. Most FM radios will
have AFC.

Just turn the radio on and let it play for half an hour before putting
it on a timmer.It may come on off frequency ,but as it warms up it
should drift to the station.

That sounds good.

Thanks everyone.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:49:56 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
newsslp6ehjgeororp691fq6rk5bknptqiej8@4ax.com...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:02:17 +1100, "Rod Speed"
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's
only with the old radios tho, not modern digital ones.

Digital radios won't work here. They all afaik
have a separate momentary-on on/off switch.

Not all of them do, most obviously with car radios.

Good point. But the 3 I have do. I'm not buying another unless I was
sure it would get 88.5 and I've tried testing it in the store. Might
work there but not when I get home.

I have radios that I tune and after they play
a while the tuning needs to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

No it isnt.

I thought I had at least two radios like this.

Looks like you have fluked a couple of duds.
None of my analog radios do that.

What is happening? Does the vibration make
the variable condenser shift a little bit?

Shouldn't do unless is much looser than it should be.

It doesn't seem to be loose.

Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Again, it shouldn't happen with a well designed radio.

I wasn't there when they designed it. ;-)

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa?

In theory its more likely with AM.

That's good to know.

FM has AFC but iirc AM doesn't have that.

That's sort of true.

I know some radios have an AFC switch, so you can get weak stations that
are close to strong stations, but if there is no AFC switch, I thought
all FM radios have AFC anyhow.

Normally the analog ones do, not needed with digital ones.

BTW. that reminds me of another example of drifting. My Hallicrafters
short-wave (plus medium and long wave) radio made in the 30's I got
from my cousin around 1958. A couple times I heard TV sound on it,
even though TV sound in the 50's and until digital is supposed to be
FM and the radio was AM. Nonetheless, I turned on a TV and found
the channel it was receiving.

Yeah, you can decode FM with an SSB receiver.

Very interesting.

And I had to retune every 5 minutes or so to a constantly higher
frequency. Finally after an hour or two, I reached the end of the band.
IIRC I switched to the bottom of the next higher band but I couldn't
find the same transmission.

Likely it was an intermodulation that you were
receiving and the signal it was intermodulating
with was what was drifting that dramatically.

Very interesting.

Yes, the thing was 30 years old but it was certainly well-designed.

Yeah, very decent designs.

I still have the radio and I've only had to replace
the AC filter capacitors. Everything else still
works, even though it's about 85 years old now.

Yeah, they do last well.

I may give it a party when it turns 100.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on
lights and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune,
even when I don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out,
and I'd like the radio to continue to play the station clearly.

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a
timer that turns the power off and on, when it comes
on, the radio doesn't start until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

I've bought 2 or 3 radios in the last couple years, but in order to get
88.5 in DC in the kitchen, without having to turn on the wireless
speaker from the computer. (no, for others who suggested the computer,
I'm not going to run the computer for 24/7 for 12 weeks when I can just
run a radio 3 or 4 hours a day. I've been plugging and unplugging a
couple of them making sure which one will stay on the frequency it's set
for, but this takes a lot of time and the questions were designed to
speed things up.)

 

Ralph Mowery wrote: "as it warms up it should drift to
the station"

From which 'side' of the station as selected on the
dial?

 

[Chuck]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:58:31 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.




I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

If you can find an older Sony Boom Box like the CFD-5 that tune locks,
it won't drift at all. I have one on a timer and the station is always
still locked after I come home from a trip.

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On 2/19/19 5:58 PM, micky wrote:

[[snip]

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

I also find that "power amnesia" to be an annoyance. For most of the
settings, modern devices use permanent memory. Often, they exclude the
"power' switch.

BTW, For TVs, I notice that many smaller ones will remember, and can be
used with a timer. Bigger TVs are power amnesiacs.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Common sense is what tells you that the world is flat."

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On 2/19/19 8:02 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
[snip]

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

If it doesn't come on after a power interruption, that sounds like a
defect (unless this was an OPTION you set). I wish they'd put that
information on the box and in ads.

BTW, another piece of useful (but often missing) information is latency
of an internet connection. This is often more important than speed.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Common sense is what tells you that the world is flat."

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On 2/19/19 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Have your timer turn the TV on/off. Leave cable box set to music channel.

If the timer provides power to the TV, someone has to press the TV's
on/off button.

I have found this to be true with larger TVs, but not with smaller ones
(the largest I have without the problem is 22-inch). However, they don't
put this on the box and any salespeople will probably NOT be able to help.

Possibly a very expensive TV might have an option for this.

Thanks.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Common sense is what tells you that the world is flat."

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On 2/19/19 10:39 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Digital radios won't work here. They all afaik have a separate
momentary-on on/off switch.

Having a momentary switch is not the problem, it's that without power it
forgets the setting of that electronic switch.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Common sense is what tells you that the world is flat."

 

[Diesel]

"\"Retired"@home.com
news:zYGdnTvUQI3ZLvHBnZ2dnUU7-SHNnZ2d@giganews.com Wed, 20 Feb 2019
01:54:12 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Do you have a TV with cable access ? If so, does the cable service
have music only channels ? Our Xfinity/Comcast does.

Have your timer turn the TV on/off. Leave cable box set to music
channel.

While a timer could be used to turn a modern tv off, it's highly
doubtful you can turn it back on with the timer. All tvs I've seen in
the past say, ten years have standby modes. If you connect them to AC,
they don't just turn on, you still have to press a button. You can't
really tape the button down or short it out in most cases either,
because it'll most likely do one of two things if you did:

(a) stay off all the time
(b) turn on, but go back to stand by a short time later, because you
aren't letting go of the button

I seriously doubt it would come out of standby and remain on if you the
button remained pressed. You'd need an older tv that had a real power
switch that actually did turn it on or off, not one with a standby or
sleep mode.


--
Radioactive halibut will make fission chips.

 

[Diesel]

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
newsslp6ehjgeororp691fq6rk5bknptqiej8@4ax.com Wed, 20 Feb 2019
04:39:56 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's
only with the old radios tho, not modern digital ones.

Digital radios won't work here. They all afaik have a separate
momentary-on on/off switch.

That isn't restricted to a digital radio. It's any device that has a
sleep mode or standby power mode. IE: anything that doesn't have a real
power switch. The momentary push button switches on modern tv sets
aren't controlling high voltage ac mains directly; they're telling
another circuit board that's using a small amount of power that it's
okay to close a relay to bring the main power board online from the ac
mains. And it'll hold the relay closed until you press the little
button again, which opens the relay and resumes sleep/suspend/standby
mode.



--
Out of Taglines, Please Order More

 

[Diesel]

Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> news:tbgbE.6149$Dv6.3095@fx06.iad Wed,
20 Feb 2019 17:33:12 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 2/19/19 5:58 PM, micky wrote:

[[snip]

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer
that turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio
doesn't start until someone pushes a button.

I also find that "power amnesia" to be an annoyance. For most of
the settings, modern devices use permanent memory. Often, they
exclude the "power' switch.

Most of the time, the power switch is controlled by another board
entirely that's mostly a small transformer, a few circuits, a relay
and access to the hot leg of the ac mains that it passes along via a
closed relay to the rest of the set that does the real work. When you
push the button to turn the tv off, it opens the relay. When you want
it on, it closes the relay. The remote on the tv is doing the same
thing. Sometimes, the IR LEDs are on the smaller standby board and
other times it's located on their own boards wired to it, or might be
sitting on the actual mainboard of the set, but electrically
connected only to the standby board; it just has a physical residence
on the mainboard.

So, there's nothing for it to memorize, and no way to enforce the
memorization if it did, as the standby board is entirely reliant on
human interaction for relay open/close.

The only exception are sets that have additional circuitry to trip
the standby board into closing the relay with pulse signal; this
requires additional circuitry on the standby board as well as
mainboard of the set, wiring, additional coding frontend/backend,
and, space to store the last known 'setting' to enforce when the
standby board has access to ac mains power.

The additional circuitry on the standby board serves to provide a
limited amount of power to the mainboard without closing the relay so
the mainboard can pull the last known setting and tell the standby
board to close the relay, if that was the setting. When it closes the
relay, that's when it's connecting ac mains (the hot leg) to the main
power supply that actually runs everything else. The standby board
has it's own power supply that's always hot if the set is plugged in.



--
Big donkeys, small donkeys, all good to eat.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:33:12 -0600, Mark Lloyd
<not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 2/19/19 5:58 PM, micky wrote:

[[snip]

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

I also find that "power amnesia" to be an annoyance. For most of the
settings, modern devices use permanent memory. Often, they exclude the
"power' switch.

Yes, exactly.

BTW, For TVs, I notice that many smaller ones will remember, and can be
used with a timer. Bigger TVs are power amnesiacs.

I have a small tv but for various reasons, can't use it.

I'm set up now, though. Thanks all.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 2/20/19 10:23 PM, micky wrote:
> I'm set up now, though.

So, how about after all the flailing around here, you TELL us
what you did/ended up with.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[devnull]

On 2/19/19 6:58 PM, micky wrote:

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.

Are you afraid some border-hoppin' thief is going to steal your stuff?

The most effective way to keep the criminals out is to build a wall around your house. Open borders don't work.

 

[George]

On 2/21/2019 5:48 AM, devnull wrote:

On 2/19/19 6:58 PM, micky wrote:
I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.



Are you afraid some border-hoppin' thief is going to steal your stuff?

The most effective way to keep the criminals out is to build a wall around your house.  Open borders don't work.


Nancy Pelosi has an immoral wall around her compound.  She also has people with guns protecting her home as well.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 5:48:33 AM UTC-5, devnull wrote:

The most effective way to keep the criminals out is to build a wall around your house. Open borders don't work.

All walls around properties do is give the thieves shelter from outside eyes.
All lights do around properties is give thieves light to work with.

All that is necessary to prevent thievery is for *your* house to be a little bit tougher than the next house. Much as I do not have to be faster than the bear, just one other person.

Dogs work well. And being home at the target time. Given that most burglaries happen between 10:00 am and 2:00 pm - when most people are at work or at school. And in the better neighborhoods, a panel van will drive up, a couple of individuals get out in jump suits and carrying clip-boards. One might set up a power-washer or some such.... you get the picture.

In the next township over from us, a truck delivered some cheap furniture, in boxes, and loaded up all the good stuff prior to leaving. Brilliant.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 6:32:07 AM UTC-5, George wrote:

Nancy Pelosi has an immoral wall around her compound.  She also has people with guns protecting her home as well.

No, it does not. And the Orange Toad squats behind a fence, not a wall.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA