what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

[micky]

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.




I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

 

[Mike]

On 2/19/2019 3:58 PM, micky wrote:

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.


Yep, that's a problem. But you can't do much about it.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

You could leave the electronic tuning radio on all the time and use
an external speaker switched by the timer.
>

 

[Phil Allison]

micky the moron wrote:

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.

** Its far more common with FM than AM and with tube sets compared to transistor.

It results from the local oscillator ( LO ) changing frequency with rising temperature after the set is switched on and begins to warm internally.

The culprits are the tubes or transistors plus low value capacitors used in the LO circuit.

IME transistor AM radios barely drift at all unless part of a receiver ( tuner - amp) that that heats significantly.


..... Phil

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:26:34 -0800, Mike
<ham789@netscape.net> wrote:

On 2/19/2019 3:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.


Yep, that's a problem. But you can't do much about it.

So are you saying that AM is worse than FM, because AM has no AFC?

Or AM and FM are both a problem?

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

You could leave the electronic tuning radio on all the time and use
an external speaker switched by the timer.

Maybe for next time. I don't have one of those.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:54:36 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

Usually the tuning issue is mostly with weaker stations. If the issue is

I didn't pay much attention until just now, but I think the common one
was 88.1, which is pretty strong. I'd leave one radio on and even in the
length of time it takes to take a bath, 30 minutes, the sound would get
gnarled.

On my 250 dollar radio, 88.1 in Baltimore got lower in volume about a
year ago, and 88.5 which is all the way in DC is now louder and probably
more clear. (But that one has electronic tuning, have to push a
button to get sound.)

BUT, none of the radios I actually use except the car radio can get
88.5, because it's all the way in DC. Yet on the good radio it comes in
better.

I guess I figure that if it drifts on a somewhat weak station, it will
drift on any station. Is that where AFC will make a difference? On FM
only but not AM? (and with enough time it will drift so far it won't
sound like a radio station.)

just using it as a source to make it look like someone is home, unless
the radio is a real POS, you;d think that you could tune it to a strong
local station and it would work. I certainly had all kinds of radios
over the years that stayed tuned to all kinds of stations AM and FM without
a problem. Micky is in MD too, right? Should be plenty of local, strong
stations.

Yes, just for making noise it doesn't have to be a station I would
actually listen to. It could even play hiphop. it's a pain for
testing however, having to listen to some of that.

 

On 2/19/19 6:58 PM, micky wrote:

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.




I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

Do you have a TV with cable access ? If so, does the cable service have
music only channels ? Our Xfinity/Comcast does.

Have your timer turn the TV on/off. Leave cable box set to music channel.

 

[Sjouke Burry]

On 20-2-2019 0:58, micky wrote:

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.




I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

Any or all of the above.

 

[Rod Speed]

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote

> what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's
only with the old radios tho, not modern digital ones.

I have radios that I tune and after they play
a while the tuning needs to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

No it isnt.

What is happening? Does the vibration make
the variable condenser shift a little bit?

Shouldn't do unless is much looser than it should be.

> Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Again, it shouldn't happen with a well designed radio.

> Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa?

In theory its more likely with AM.

> FM has AFC but iirc AM doesn't have that.

That's sort of true.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on
lights and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune,
even when I don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out,
and I'd like the radio to continue to play the station clearly.

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a
timer that turns the power off and on, when it comes
on, the radio doesn't start until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

 

[%]

On 2019-02-19 7:02 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's only with the
old radios tho, not modern digital ones.
I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

No it isnt.
What is happening?  Does the vibration make the variable condenser
shift a little bit?

Shouldn't do unless is much looser than it should be.
Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Again, it shouldn't happen with a well designed radio.
Is this more common in AM than FM?  or vice versa?

In theory its more likely with AM.
FM has AFC but iirc AM doesn't have that.

That's sort of true.
I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the
radio to continue to play the station clearly.

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

and get on SiriusXM

 

[Mike]

On 2/19/2019 5:38 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:26:34 -0800, Mike
ham789@netscape.net> wrote:

On 2/19/2019 3:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.


Yep, that's a problem. But you can't do much about it.

So are you saying that AM is worse than FM, because AM has no AFC?

Or AM and FM are both a problem?

No, I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that, if all the devices you have to make noise are
insufficient, you need different devices.
Fixing ANY of them is gonna be far more time consuming than
obtaining a speaker or mp3 player or a computer that can turn itself
on whenever you program it...like all of them do...somehow.

Turn on the mp3 player and let it loop 24/7. The switched lights should
be sufficient to fool anybody who'd be fooled by such devices.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on lights
and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune, even when I
don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out, and I'd like the radio
to continue to play the station clearly.


I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.

You could leave the electronic tuning radio on all the time and use
an external speaker switched by the timer.

Maybe for next time. I don't have one of those.

 

[rbowman]

On 02/19/2019 04:58 PM, micky wrote:
> what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

How old and crappy are your radios? Have you made it up to a
superheterodyne or are you still in the regenerative era?

 

[danny burstein]

In <gd415sFjj0uU1@mid.individual.net> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

Thunderbird/45.6.0
In-Reply-To: <41vo6e5v4nb6oa3h14cico9n7supjmu4pa@4ax.com
Xref: panix sci.electronics.repair:586980 alt.home.repair:1823920

On 02/19/2019 04:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

How old and crappy are your radios? Have you made it up to a
superheterodyne or are you still in the regenerative era?

Me, I'm still waiting to upgrade to using a stainless
steel razor blade for mine...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <qpbp6edoacae7eirg3t0h46q7plgfq0vj9@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...

Yep, that's a problem. But you can't do much about it.

So are you saying that AM is worse than FM, because AM has no AFC?

Or AM and FM are both a problem?

Usually AM will be worse because there is no AFC. Most FM radios will
have AFC.

Just turn the radio on and let it play for half an hour before putting
it on a timmer.It may come on off frequency ,but as it warms up it
should drift to the station.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:54:12 -0500,
"\"Retired"@home.com wrote:

On 2/19/19 6:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

I have radios that I tune and after they play a while the tuning needs
to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

What is happening? Does the vibration make the variable condenser shift
a little bit? Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa? FM has AFC but iirc
AM doesn't have that.

This is not as bad as some seem to have gleaned. This method will work,
I just wanted to shorten the time it would take me to find the right
radio, the right AM or FM band, and a a good station

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a timer that
turns the power off and on, when it comes on, the radio doesn't start
until someone pushes a button.


Do you have a TV with cable access ?

No, I don't.

If so, does the cable service have
music only channels ? Our Xfinity/Comcast does.

It doesn't have to be music. Burglars don't know my tastes. It just
has to be a radio or tv station.

BTW, I've been on 3 trips in the last 2 years totaling 160 days and no
one has bothered my house at all. I just want to keep it that way.

>Have your timer turn the TV on/off. Leave cable box set to music channel.

If the timer provides power to the TV, someone has to press the TV's
on/off button.

Thanks.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:02:17 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's
only with the old radios tho, not modern digital ones.

Digital radios won't work here. They all afaik have a separate
momentary-on on/off switch.

I have radios that I tune and after they play
a while the tuning needs to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

No it isnt.

I thought I had at least two radios like this.

What is happening? Does the vibration make
the variable condenser shift a little bit?

Shouldn't do unless is much looser than it should be.

It doesn't seem to be loose.

Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Again, it shouldn't happen with a well designed radio.

I wasn't there when they designed it. ;-)

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa?

In theory its more likely with AM.

That's good to know.

FM has AFC but iirc AM doesn't have that.

That's sort of true.

I know some radios have an AFC switch, so you can get weak stations that
are close to strong stations, but if there is no AFC switch, I thought
all FM radios have AFC anyhow.

BTW. that reminds me of another example of drifting. My Hallicrafters
short-wave (plus medium and long wave) radio made in the 30's I got from
my cousin around 1958. A couple times I heard TV sound on it, even
though TV sound in the 50's and until digital is supposed to be FM and
the radio was AM. Nonetheless, I turned on a TV and found the channel
it was receiving.

And I had to retune every 5 minutes or so to a constantly higher
frequency. Finally after an hour or two, I reached the end of the band.
IIRC I switched to the bottom of the next higher band but I couldn't
find the same transmission.

Yes, the thing was 30 years old but it was certainly well-designed. I
still have the radio and I've only had to replace the AC filter
capacitors. Everything else still works, even though it's about 85
years old now.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on
lights and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune,
even when I don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out,
and I'd like the radio to continue to play the station clearly.

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a
timer that turns the power off and on, when it comes
on, the radio doesn't start until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

I've bought 2 or 3 radios in the last couple years, but in order to get
88.5 in DC in the kitchen, without having to turn on the wireless
speaker from the computer. (no, for others who suggested the computer,
I'm not going to run the computer for 24/7 for 12 weeks when I can just
run a radio 3 or 4 hours a day. I've been plugging and unplugging a
couple of them making sure which one will stay on the frequency it's set
for, but this takes a lot of time and the questions were designed to
speed things up.)

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 2/19/19 10:39 PM, micky wrote:

Yes, the thing was 30 years old but it was certainly well-designed. I
still have the radio and I've only had to replace the AC filter
capacitors. Everything else still works, even though it's about 85
years old now.

Hallicrafters radios are notorious for drifting.
It's almost a trade mark.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Rod Speed]

"micky" <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
newsslp6ehjgeororp691fq6rk5bknptqiej8@4ax.com...

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:02:17 +1100, "Rod Speed"
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote

what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

The thing that does the tuning moves physically. That's
only with the old radios tho, not modern digital ones.

Digital radios won't work here. They all afaik
have a separate momentary-on on/off switch.

Not all of them do, most obviously with car radios.

I have radios that I tune and after they play
a while the tuning needs to be adjusted.

This is common, I assume.

No it isnt.

I thought I had at least two radios like this.

Looks like you have fluked a couple of duds.
None of my analog radios do that.

What is happening? Does the vibration make
the variable condenser shift a little bit?

Shouldn't do unless is much looser than it should be.

It doesn't seem to be loose.

Or do the parts get warm and some value changes?

Again, it shouldn't happen with a well designed radio.

I wasn't there when they designed it. ;-)

Is this more common in AM than FM? or vice versa?

In theory its more likely with AM.

That's good to know.

FM has AFC but iirc AM doesn't have that.

That's sort of true.

I know some radios have an AFC switch, so you can get weak stations that
are close to strong stations, but if there is no AFC switch, I thought
all FM radios have AFC anyhow.

Normally the analog ones do, not needed with digital ones.

BTW. that reminds me of another example of drifting. My Hallicrafters
short-wave (plus medium and long wave) radio made in the 30's I got
from my cousin around 1958. A couple times I heard TV sound on it,
even though TV sound in the 50's and until digital is supposed to be
FM and the radio was AM. Nonetheless, I turned on a TV and found
the channel it was receiving.

Yeah, you can decode FM with an SSB receiver.

And I had to retune every 5 minutes or so to a constantly higher
frequency. Finally after an hour or two, I reached the end of the band.
IIRC I switched to the bottom of the next higher band but I couldn't
find the same transmission.

Likely it was an intermodulation that you were
receiving and the signal it was intermodulating
with was what was drifting that dramatically.

> Yes, the thing was 30 years old but it was certainly well-designed.

Yeah, very decent designs.

I still have the radio and I've only had to replace
the AC filter capacitors. Everything else still
works, even though it's about 85 years old now.

Yeah, they do last well.

I am going away for a while and I want to use timers to turn on
lights and also a radio, but some radios get so far out of tune,
even when I don't touch them, that almost nothing comes out,
and I'd like the radio to continue to play the station clearly.

I can't use radios with electronic tuning because with a
timer that turns the power off and on, when it comes
on, the radio doesn't start until someone pushes a button.

They arent all like that. Just replace the radio with a better analog one.

I've bought 2 or 3 radios in the last couple years, but in order to get
88.5 in DC in the kitchen, without having to turn on the wireless
speaker from the computer. (no, for others who suggested the computer,
I'm not going to run the computer for 24/7 for 12 weeks when I can just
run a radio 3 or 4 hours a day. I've been plugging and unplugging a
couple of them making sure which one will stay on the frequency it's set
for, but this takes a lot of time and the questions were designed to
speed things up.)

 

On Wednesday, 20 February 2019 03:51:29 UTC, rbowman wrote:

On 02/19/2019 04:58 PM, micky wrote:
what makes radios drift from the proper tuning?

How old and crappy are your radios? Have you made it up to a
superheterodyne or are you still in the regenerative era?

My 1930s regen doesn't drift after half an hour. But don't look at it sideways.


NT

 

On Wednesday, 20 February 2019 04:40:06 UTC, micky wrote:

BTW. that reminds me of another example of drifting. My Hallicrafters
short-wave (plus medium and long wave) radio made in the 30's I got from
my cousin around 1958. A couple times I heard TV sound on it, even
though TV sound in the 50's and until digital is supposed to be FM and
the radio was AM. Nonetheless, I turned on a TV and found the channel
it was receiving.

And I had to retune every 5 minutes or so to a constantly higher
frequency. Finally after an hour or two, I reached the end of the band.
IIRC I switched to the bottom of the next higher band but I couldn't
find the same transmission.

Yes, the thing was 30 years old but it was certainly well-designed. I
still have the radio and I've only had to replace the AC filter
capacitors. Everything else still works, even though it's about 85
years old now.

AM receivers can receive FM due to a phenomenon called slope detection. It's hardly ideal but can be done. If they can tune to the right frequency.


NT

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:49:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

I thought I had at least two radios like this.

Looks like you have fluked

Looks like you found another simpleton who hasn't yet realized what's the
matter with you, you fucked up senile Ozzie troll! <BG>

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1@news.mixmin.net>