M
Mark
Guest
i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.
Mark
Navigation
Install the app
How to install the app on iOS
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
More options
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.
Mark
J
John Robertson
Guest
On 03/14/2013 7:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
tailgate wiring, where wires would always break in the hinge - the
wiring was not unlike hinge wiring in laptops. It was a very tight
routing which left only a small amount of wire that could flex with the
result that after a few years stuff on the tailgate would stop working...
I solved the problem by moving the wiring outside the hinge and had it
hang in a loop - not as nice looking, but never had any further
problems. I kept that car for 25 years...
John :-#)#
Volvo 240 (1984 and other years) wagons had a similar problem with theirArthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is important.
That looks like typical crappy automotive-grade vinyl and normal
fairly coarse stranded wire.
It's breaking in the same spot because as the snorkel is moved in and
out, most of the strees is at that one spot.
Considering that BMW has been famous for electrical problems since the
Bavaria was new, this should not surprise you.
--scott
tailgate wiring, where wires would always break in the hinge - the
wiring was not unlike hinge wiring in laptops. It was a very tight
routing which left only a small amount of wire that could flex with the
result that after a few years stuff on the tailgate would stop working...
I solved the problem by moving the wiring outside the hinge and had it
hang in a loop - not as nice looking, but never had any further
problems. I kept that car for 25 years...
John :-#)#
T
trader4@optonline.net
Guest
On Mar 14, 10:54 am, Bimmer Owner <dontask...@mymail.com> wrote:
insulation that isn't as pliable as other insulation, then
the insulation will crack. We can't do a forensic investigation
from some pics that don't show how it's mounted, how
much it moves, what tensions are on it, etc. But I'd bet
that area has more bending, tension, etc than the rest of
it.
Of course it can be. If BMW uses some hippie greenOn Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
that not only costs more, but fails.....
Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.
That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?
insulation that isn't as pliable as other insulation, then
the insulation will crack. We can't do a forensic investigation
from some pics that don't show how it's mounted, how
much it moves, what tensions are on it, etc. But I'd bet
that area has more bending, tension, etc than the rest of
it.
A
AMuzi
Guest
On 3/14/2013 12:41 PM, John Robertson wrote:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HPCSUCKS.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Laptops! Oy!On 03/14/2013 7:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the
BMW design flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design
flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed
for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is
important.
That looks like typical crappy automotive-grade vinyl and
normal
fairly coarse stranded wire.
It's breaking in the same spot because as the snorkel is
moved in and
out, most of the strees is at that one spot.
Considering that BMW has been famous for electrical
problems since the
Bavaria was new, this should not surprise you.
--scott
Volvo 240 (1984 and other years) wagons had a similar
problem with their tailgate wiring, where wires would always
break in the hinge - the wiring was not unlike hinge wiring
in laptops. It was a very tight routing which left only a
small amount of wire that could flex with the result that
after a few years stuff on the tailgate would stop working...
I solved the problem by moving the wiring outside the hinge
and had it hang in a loop - not as nice looking, but never
had any further problems. I kept that car for 25 years...
John :-#)#
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HPCSUCKS.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
N
Nate Nagel
Guest
On 03/14/2013 11:32 AM, jim beam wrote:
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better. To accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
A cheap shot; perhaps they did have a flaw in the routing/materials ofOn 03/14/2013 08:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <khsoqp$jd6$2@dont-email.me>, jim beam <me@privacy.net
wrote:
On 03/14/2013 07:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design
flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is important.
it's not just that though - their physical routing is at fault too. if
they used a torsion bend as opposed to an elbow bend, the mechanical
strain would be spread out along the whole wire, not concentrated in one
spot.
That's true, and that might be less expensive than using proper wire.
Still,
there's high-flexibility wire designed for the job, that won't break.
but it's bmw. they won't spend a cent on better engineering that a cent
on advertising can't brainwash.
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better. To accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
N
Nate Nagel
Guest
On 03/14/2013 01:11 PM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
that area flex in torsion would be preferable and I agree with that
statement as well. Would be simple to have accomplished by having the
hole in the body offset by a few inches (actually as far as possible
would be preferable) from the hole in the trunk lid, and using a
correspondingly longer rubber boot. then most of the flexing of the
wire as the trunk lid opens and closes would result in a slight twisting
of the wire rather than a sharp bending.
The same holds true for wiring running from a body pillar into a door
e.g. for power mirrors, windows, speakers, etc.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Yes, that much is true. Someone had mentioned that having the wire inOn Mar 14, 10:54 am, Bimmer Owner <dontask...@mymail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
that not only costs more, but fails.....
Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.
That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?
Of course it can be. If BMW uses some hippie green
insulation that isn't as pliable as other insulation, then
the insulation will crack. We can't do a forensic investigation
from some pics that don't show how it's mounted, how
much it moves, what tensions are on it, etc. But I'd bet
that area has more bending, tension, etc than the rest of
it.
that area flex in torsion would be preferable and I agree with that
statement as well. Would be simple to have accomplished by having the
hole in the body offset by a few inches (actually as far as possible
would be preferable) from the hole in the trunk lid, and using a
correspondingly longer rubber boot. then most of the flexing of the
wire as the trunk lid opens and closes would result in a slight twisting
of the wire rather than a sharp bending.
The same holds true for wiring running from a body pillar into a door
e.g. for power mirrors, windows, speakers, etc.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
J
jim beam
Guest
On 03/14/2013 05:14 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
materials are cheap and nasty. not quite as bad as frod or g.m., but
real freakin' close.
and when they do retarded design stuff like fit electronic brake pad
wear monitors, you bmw wash-brains think that's brilliant. except for
the fact that it's on one pad, on one side of the vehicle - that's not
just retarded, it's cheap and retarded both at the same time.
--
fact check required
handling??? easy. prelude. only cheaper. crx too for that matter.On 03/14/2013 11:32 AM, jim beam wrote:
On 03/14/2013 08:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <khsoqp$jd6$2@dont-email.me>, jim beam <me@privacy.net
wrote:
On 03/14/2013 07:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design
flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is important.
it's not just that though - their physical routing is at fault too. if
they used a torsion bend as opposed to an elbow bend, the mechanical
strain would be spread out along the whole wire, not concentrated in
one
spot.
That's true, and that might be less expensive than using proper wire.
Still,
there's high-flexibility wire designed for the job, that won't break.
but it's bmw. they won't spend a cent on better engineering that a cent
on advertising can't brainwash.
A cheap shot; perhaps they did have a flaw in the routing/materials of
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better.
then you don't know what you're looking at. i'm a materials guy. bmwTo accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
materials are cheap and nasty. not quite as bad as frod or g.m., but
real freakin' close.
and when they do retarded design stuff like fit electronic brake pad
wear monitors, you bmw wash-brains think that's brilliant. except for
the fact that it's on one pad, on one side of the vehicle - that's not
just retarded, it's cheap and retarded both at the same time.
--
fact check required
N
Nate Nagel
Guest
On 03/14/2013 09:06 PM, jim beam wrote:
However I think that BMW and also Porsche do an excellent job of
producing good value for the money. Probably the best going, if you
value performance and handling (and buy used. Anyone who pays new car
prices for a Bimmer or P-car either has an enviable net wealth or is a
sucker.)
Many will find this surprising but I would consider Hyundai an excellent
value for a non-performance driver. Honda and Toyota actually make,
overall, a good product, but are overpriced in comparison.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Both are front wheel drive cars, by definition you lose.On 03/14/2013 05:14 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 03/14/2013 11:32 AM, jim beam wrote:
On 03/14/2013 08:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <khsoqp$jd6$2@dont-email.me>, jim beam <me@privacy.net
wrote:
On 03/14/2013 07:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design
flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is important.
it's not just that though - their physical routing is at fault
too. if
they used a torsion bend as opposed to an elbow bend, the mechanical
strain would be spread out along the whole wire, not concentrated in
one
spot.
That's true, and that might be less expensive than using proper wire.
Still,
there's high-flexibility wire designed for the job, that won't break.
but it's bmw. they won't spend a cent on better engineering that a cent
on advertising can't brainwash.
A cheap shot; perhaps they did have a flaw in the routing/materials of
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better.
handling??? easy. prelude. only cheaper. crx too for that matter.
I'm not saying that BMW is perfect, or any manufacturer for that matter.To accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
then you don't know what you're looking at. i'm a materials guy. bmw
materials are cheap and nasty. not quite as bad as frod or g.m., but
real freakin' close.
and when they do retarded design stuff like fit electronic brake pad
wear monitors, you bmw wash-brains think that's brilliant. except for
the fact that it's on one pad, on one side of the vehicle - that's not
just retarded, it's cheap and retarded both at the same time.
However I think that BMW and also Porsche do an excellent job of
producing good value for the money. Probably the best going, if you
value performance and handling (and buy used. Anyone who pays new car
prices for a Bimmer or P-car either has an enviable net wealth or is a
sucker.)
Many will find this surprising but I would consider Hyundai an excellent
value for a non-performance driver. Honda and Toyota actually make,
overall, a good product, but are overpriced in comparison.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
J
jim beam
Guest
On 03/14/2013 06:32 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
and i've watched preludes DOMINATE m3's and m5's on the track. you
simply have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.
the emperor's clothes [your over-priced deutche-crap] isn't fantastic".
the crx was incredibly cheap and handled superbly - my old crx could
crush m3's on the twisties with skinny little tires, and i'm not a good
driver. miata's handle well too. hyundai are just wishbone junk wrt
handling.
--
fact check required
wow, that idiocy is right up there with your trunk organizers.On 03/14/2013 09:06 PM, jim beam wrote:
On 03/14/2013 05:14 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 03/14/2013 11:32 AM, jim beam wrote:
On 03/14/2013 08:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <khsoqp$jd6$2@dont-email.me>, jim beam <me@privacy.net
wrote:
On 03/14/2013 07:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design
flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
My guess is that they are using a wire that isn't designed for high
flexibility, in an application where high flexibility is important.
it's not just that though - their physical routing is at fault
too. if
they used a torsion bend as opposed to an elbow bend, the mechanical
strain would be spread out along the whole wire, not concentrated in
one
spot.
That's true, and that might be less expensive than using proper wire.
Still,
there's high-flexibility wire designed for the job, that won't break.
but it's bmw. they won't spend a cent on better engineering that a cent
on advertising can't brainwash.
A cheap shot; perhaps they did have a flaw in the routing/materials of
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better.
handling??? easy. prelude. only cheaper. crx too for that matter.
Both are front wheel drive cars, by definition you lose.
and i've watched preludes DOMINATE m3's and m5's on the track. you
simply have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.
no, they do a great job of brainwashing. "only a fool can't see thatTo accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
then you don't know what you're looking at. i'm a materials guy. bmw
materials are cheap and nasty. not quite as bad as frod or g.m., but
real freakin' close.
and when they do retarded design stuff like fit electronic brake pad
wear monitors, you bmw wash-brains think that's brilliant. except for
the fact that it's on one pad, on one side of the vehicle - that's not
just retarded, it's cheap and retarded both at the same time.
I'm not saying that BMW is perfect, or any manufacturer for that matter.
However I think that BMW and also Porsche do an excellent job of
producing good value for the money.
the emperor's clothes [your over-priced deutche-crap] isn't fantastic".
no, any one who buys into their hype is a brainwashed sucker.Probably the best going, if you
value performance and handling (and buy used. Anyone who pays new car
prices for a Bimmer or P-car either has an enviable net wealth or is a
sucker.)
they don't make them any more, but the wishbone hondas were awesome.Many will find this surprising but I would consider Hyundai an excellent
value for a non-performance driver. Honda and Toyota actually make,
overall, a good product, but are overpriced in comparison.
the crx was incredibly cheap and handled superbly - my old crx could
crush m3's on the twisties with skinny little tires, and i'm not a good
driver. miata's handle well too. hyundai are just wishbone junk wrt
handling.
--
fact check required
C
Charlie+
Guest
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:16:35 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
wrote as underneath snip
the wiring longevity agree would be much better! C+
wrote as underneath snip
Have to be extra vigilant to water rundown in your scenario which forYes, that much is true. Someone had mentioned that having the wire in
that area flex in torsion would be preferable and I agree with that
statement as well. Would be simple to have accomplished by having the
hole in the body offset by a few inches (actually as far as possible
would be preferable) from the hole in the trunk lid, and using a
correspondingly longer rubber boot. then most of the flexing of the
wire as the trunk lid opens and closes would result in a slight twisting
of the wire rather than a sharp bending.
The same holds true for wiring running from a body pillar into a door
e.g. for power mirrors, windows, speakers, etc.
the wiring longevity agree would be much better! C+
J
jim beam
Guest
On 03/14/2013 08:47 PM, jim beam wrote:
<snip>
--
fact check required
<snip>
late night typo - "macpherson junk".hyundai are just wishbone junk wrt
handling.
--
fact check required
S
Stormin Mormon
Guest
Worse, even, than Lucas Electric, the Prince of Darkness?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:khvtps$9d8$1@reader2.panix.com...
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:khvtps$9d8$1@reader2.panix.com...
A: german engineering.Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
A
AMuzi
Guest
On 3/15/2013 2:46 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Fiat the differences among them are not all that significant
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Having owned, driven, maintained and repaired BMW, MG andIn sci.electronics.repair Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
Almost every BMW E39 (5-series) and E38 (7-series) and E46 (3-series)
has shorts that develop in the trunk wiring loom - all in the same spot!
Here is a picture of the uniformity of the shorts:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=286651&stc=1&d=1311702112
Here is another picture from another vehicle:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=287281&stc=1&d=1312154763
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261502&d=1294537117
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=295239&stc=1&d=1317334573
And another:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=307223&d=1325771723
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=200762&stc=1&d=1252530849
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
A: german engineering.
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
Fiat the differences among them are not all that significant
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
C
Cydrome Leader
Guest
In sci.electronics.repair Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
A: german engineering.Almost every BMW E39 (5-series) and E38 (7-series) and E46 (3-series)
has shorts that develop in the trunk wiring loom - all in the same spot!
Here is a picture of the uniformity of the shorts:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=286651&stc=1&d=1311702112
Here is another picture from another vehicle:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=287281&stc=1&d=1312154763
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261502&d=1294537117
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=295239&stc=1&d=1317334573
And another:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=307223&d=1325771723
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=200762&stc=1&d=1252530849
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
A
amdx
Guest
On 3/14/2013 11:34 AM, Mark wrote:
I'm up to 6 on 4 vehicles, 4 inside and 2 outside.
I haven't rewarded them for their poor build.
I drill and epoxy two steel pins on the inside handles and
put two stainless steel flat head screws in the outside handles.
Haven't had any repairs break. I'd almost recommend my outside door
handle repair as preventative.
Mikek
If you're going to blame me for being rough on door handles, I'll
have to say it must be hereditary and spread by marriage. All 4
in my family has broke one and my son-in-law.
Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?the fix is both better wire insulation that doesn't become brittle, AND
re-routing to avoid the elbow bend. then you can keep using cheap wire
and don't need to spend money on the expensive hi-flex stuff.
--
i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.
Mark
I'm up to 6 on 4 vehicles, 4 inside and 2 outside.
I haven't rewarded them for their poor build.
I drill and epoxy two steel pins on the inside handles and
put two stainless steel flat head screws in the outside handles.
Haven't had any repairs break. I'd almost recommend my outside door
handle repair as preventative.
Mikek
If you're going to blame me for being rough on door handles, I'll
have to say it must be hereditary and spread by marriage. All 4
in my family has broke one and my son-in-law.
M
Mark
Guest
-
my wife broke the inside passenger side..
i've learned to use only two fingers to pull on the handles, don't
grab them.
i agree they are not very rugged...
but it's about the only flaw i've found with that car (knock knock)
besides the rear door wires which i understand like the BMW is a very
common spot for wires to break on this car...
and interestingly the rear door is used maybe 1/100 of the time
compared to the drivers door so you would have to think there is
something "special" about the way those particular wires are designed
and/or built to make them break before the drivers door wires break
Mark
snipi had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.
Mark
Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?
my wife broke the inside passenger side..
i've learned to use only two fingers to pull on the handles, don't
grab them.
i agree they are not very rugged...
but it's about the only flaw i've found with that car (knock knock)
besides the rear door wires which i understand like the BMW is a very
common spot for wires to break on this car...
and interestingly the rear door is used maybe 1/100 of the time
compared to the drivers door so you would have to think there is
something "special" about the way those particular wires are designed
and/or built to make them break before the drivers door wires break
Mark
J
jim beam
Guest
On 03/15/2013 01:35 PM, AMuzi wrote:
--
fact check required
ouch.On 3/15/2013 2:46 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Arthur <arthur@nowhere.com> wrote:
Almost every BMW E39 (5-series) and E38 (7-series) and E46 (3-series)
has shorts that develop in the trunk wiring loom - all in the same spot!
Here is a picture of the uniformity of the shorts:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=286651&stc=1&d=1311702112
Here is another picture from another vehicle:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=287281&stc=1&d=1312154763
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261502&d=1294537117
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=295239&stc=1&d=1317334573
And another:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=307223&d=1325771723
And another:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=200762&stc=1&d=1252530849
I could go on (and on); but we can't figure out WHAT the BMW design
flaw is.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397245
Q: Can you tell from these pictures what the BMW design flaw is?
A: german engineering.
the fact is, germans aren't good with automotive wiring. german designed
vehicles have the shittiest electrical systems ever created.
Having owned, driven, maintained and repaired BMW, MG and Fiat the
differences among them are not all that significant
--
fact check required
B
Bimmer Owner
Guest
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:14:01 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:
However, the window regulators break on almost every BMW
older than about 5 years, while the blower motor final stage
resistor (FSR), aka the final stage unit (FSU) will fry itself
more than once on every single bimmer ever built in the late
90's and early 2000's.
The VANOS seals are made of a material that won't last the warranty
period; and the Bosch 5.7 ABS control module was placed far too close
to the engine for cost reasons, which fries almost every single one.
The DISA valve, which appears to be an amazing engineering feat,
is practically designed to loosen the pin, which, if the engine
ingests that steel pin, will wreak havoc on the valves as the
pistons pummel it to pieces (there is nothing between the DISA
valve and the intake manifold!).
The almost criminal design of the DISA is dwarfed by the clearly
deficient design of the cooling system, where almost every bimmer
older than a few years has had a catastrophic failure of, and very
many multiple failures. Thousands of bimmers every year are destroyed
by owners not realizing that a single overheating episode causes
cracks in cylinder 3 (e.g., in the M54 engine) that essentially
turn the otherwise fantastic power plant into so much rubbish.
And, there wasn't an E39 ever built (5-series, 1997 to 2003) which
did NOT have the cluster and MID pixels turn to unreadable junk within
a few years of manufacture (due to the infamous "pink tape").
Likewise, not a single E39 is immune to the horrid choice of PBT
plastic for the headlight adjusters, turning $1000 fiber optic
Halogen H7 and Xenon headlights into veritable candles within a
few years of the heat baking the plastic.
Likely not one E39 hasn't had its power steering hose leak under the
fluid reservoir, and not a single E46, E39, or E38 (3,5,6 series)
bimmer hasn't had the CCV valve fail on them (i.e., a PCV valve
which costs hundreds of dollars to replace, frequently).
For the V8, they all have valley pan gaskets leaking, and all the
bimmers I'm talking about have had their thrust arm bushings tear.
Probably not a single bimmer of the categories above hasn't had the
vapor barrier leaking (due to an extremely poor choice of design
coupled with lousy sealant); and half the bimmers have cables slip
out of the otherwise fancy seat, causing the infamous "seat twist".
I could go on (and on), (e.g., more than half will have the windshield
washer pumps leak, and a huge percentage will lose their jack pads,
while a healthy percentage will melt their center brake lamp housing,
and even the roundels will chip away at the car wash until nothing
but silver is left).
The funny thing is that BMW DOES know how to design a powerplant.
It appears that the Germans in Bavaria simply 'care' about some
things (just count the ashtrays, for example, and then compare
them to the unanimously ridiculous cupholders of the E39 era)
while they don't care about others.
Clearly BMW cares about handling and efficiency of the power train;
yet, just as clearly, overall product quality is NOT even on their
radar screens.
The bimmer handles well, and the power train is phenomenal.perhaps they did have a flaw in the routing/materials of
one wiring harness, but show me a comparable vehicle at the same price
point that handles better. To accuse BMW across the board of poor
engineering is laughable.
However, the window regulators break on almost every BMW
older than about 5 years, while the blower motor final stage
resistor (FSR), aka the final stage unit (FSU) will fry itself
more than once on every single bimmer ever built in the late
90's and early 2000's.
The VANOS seals are made of a material that won't last the warranty
period; and the Bosch 5.7 ABS control module was placed far too close
to the engine for cost reasons, which fries almost every single one.
The DISA valve, which appears to be an amazing engineering feat,
is practically designed to loosen the pin, which, if the engine
ingests that steel pin, will wreak havoc on the valves as the
pistons pummel it to pieces (there is nothing between the DISA
valve and the intake manifold!).
The almost criminal design of the DISA is dwarfed by the clearly
deficient design of the cooling system, where almost every bimmer
older than a few years has had a catastrophic failure of, and very
many multiple failures. Thousands of bimmers every year are destroyed
by owners not realizing that a single overheating episode causes
cracks in cylinder 3 (e.g., in the M54 engine) that essentially
turn the otherwise fantastic power plant into so much rubbish.
And, there wasn't an E39 ever built (5-series, 1997 to 2003) which
did NOT have the cluster and MID pixels turn to unreadable junk within
a few years of manufacture (due to the infamous "pink tape").
Likewise, not a single E39 is immune to the horrid choice of PBT
plastic for the headlight adjusters, turning $1000 fiber optic
Halogen H7 and Xenon headlights into veritable candles within a
few years of the heat baking the plastic.
Likely not one E39 hasn't had its power steering hose leak under the
fluid reservoir, and not a single E46, E39, or E38 (3,5,6 series)
bimmer hasn't had the CCV valve fail on them (i.e., a PCV valve
which costs hundreds of dollars to replace, frequently).
For the V8, they all have valley pan gaskets leaking, and all the
bimmers I'm talking about have had their thrust arm bushings tear.
Probably not a single bimmer of the categories above hasn't had the
vapor barrier leaking (due to an extremely poor choice of design
coupled with lousy sealant); and half the bimmers have cables slip
out of the otherwise fancy seat, causing the infamous "seat twist".
I could go on (and on), (e.g., more than half will have the windshield
washer pumps leak, and a huge percentage will lose their jack pads,
while a healthy percentage will melt their center brake lamp housing,
and even the roundels will chip away at the car wash until nothing
but silver is left).
The funny thing is that BMW DOES know how to design a powerplant.
It appears that the Germans in Bavaria simply 'care' about some
things (just count the ashtrays, for example, and then compare
them to the unanimously ridiculous cupholders of the E39 era)
while they don't care about others.
Clearly BMW cares about handling and efficiency of the power train;
yet, just as clearly, overall product quality is NOT even on their
radar screens.
B
Bimmer Owner
Guest
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 05:28:52 +0000, Bimmer Owner wrote:
Ooops. 3, 5, and 7 series (embarrassing typo!)Likely not one E39 hasn't had its power steering hose leak under the
fluid reservoir, and not a single E46, E39, or E38 (3,5,6 series)
A
amdx
Guest
On 3/15/2013 5:36 PM, Mark wrote:
mark. The have a slot molded in to the highest stress point, I might add
I don't see any reason for it. Other than to help the dealer sell
replacement handles.
Other than the door handles I'm a happy Toyota owner, had a Camry,
have a T-100 still a sharp looking truck, have a Lexus and an Avalon.
My wife is a persistent patient shopper, and will wait until she finds
a great used car at a steal.
Mikek
The inside handles seem to be designed to break at the 8 to 10 year-
i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.
Mark
Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?
snip
my wife broke the inside passenger side..
i've learned to use only two fingers to pull on the handles, don't
grab them.
i agree they are not very rugged...
but it's about the only flaw i've found with that car (knock knock)
mark. The have a slot molded in to the highest stress point, I might add
I don't see any reason for it. Other than to help the dealer sell
replacement handles.
Other than the door handles I'm a happy Toyota owner, had a Camry,
have a T-100 still a sharp looking truck, have a Lexus and an Avalon.
My wife is a persistent patient shopper, and will wait until she finds
a great used car at a steal.
Mikek