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So not yet any evidence. The fact that I've discussed electrolysis isOn Jul 9, 7:59 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 9/07/2012 7:34 PM, Graham Cooper wrote:
On Jul 9, 2:53 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 9/07/2012 1:36 PM, Graham Cooper wrote:
you said 85% or 90% efficient by memory.
Previously you asserted I'd said 90%. Now it's 85% or 90%. What does
that say about your memory?
Spot on as always!
"Sylvia gave a figure of 90% last year or around there."
Herc
That would be "Sylvia gave a figure of 90% or around there last year."
I'm still waiting to see you provide any evidence.
Sylvia.
seems to be a pet topic of yours.
Results 1 - 10 of about 22 for author:else electrolysis
going through those would be like putting on a Willie Nelson tape
Herc
On Jul 9, 1:39 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
Graham Cooper wrote:
On Jul 9, 11:24 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
herc.of.z...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 9, 9:28 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
Yes but when you are trying to cool/heat a room you will soon
realise that the power required to do so using Peltier cooling (not
to mention the costs) will throw your cost effective solar powering
ideas into a festering heap.
But you won't listen to reason, so good luck with it. I would like
to see what you come up with though.
Not a room, a cool room.
of course a person producing 50W in heat isn't going to compete with
a 20W peltier!
so your INSULATION is inversely propotional to your COOLING POWER
most people off the grid buy a chest freezer and put a timer or
thermostat on it.
better insulation, and opening the door doesn't lose cool.
I might adapt some chest freezers with peltier coolers and tank of
water inside to keep thermal intertia during noon hours, running off
solar panels.
the shed is scorching in summer during afternoon, i have to get the
temperature down or I can't store ANY food!
A Peltier cooler setup that size would still likely use more energy
than a conventional freezer box which kinda defeats the purpose
doesn't it? I would insulate the shed walls and ceilings as a matter
of priority. Add some panelling to make it more homely. Should be
DIY simple and would make it more homely not to mention liveable.
yeh the compressor fridges are more efficient, but peltiers work too
and are solid state so you can leave them on for years and run at
different amps, no maintenance.
I'd be interested to see what you come up with and see how efficient,
reliable and cost effective it is.
I wouldn't' be able to use gas if I sealed the shed up. this will
just be a weekender once I've setup the water tank I can move on..
It could be a very comfortable weekender for little outlay. Shouldn't be a
problem since you're loaded, right?
Graham lives in a shed. It's bigger (I think) than the storage shed I
just had built, but not as nice. Yes, he's clearly "loaded", but he
would get even more loaded if he sealed up the shed and used gas in
it. Better yet, Graham, seal up the shed and just open the gas valve
a bit, with no flame. Then you won't have to worry about CO
poisoning. Happy dreams!
Easier to get a caravan or build a full house for something permanent
than do up a shed. But water, power, resources, etc. are good to have
on stand by.
Expecting armageddon?
More like expecting the authorities.
I boarded off the gaps between the concrete slab and walls so no
spiders crawl in anymore
What about the gaps at the top? I found they came in through there and had
to seal that. Ended up doing it by hanging a ceiling made from silver cell
insulationl. Secured it using metal screws to the centre beam and let it
droop slightly and fastened it to the sides with a bit of overlap. Looked
quite neat and worked a treat. I ilaid some carpet and nsulated the sides of
the shed and put some panels on to make it into a very comfortable
workshop/office.
You just can't get much better than a person who pretends to be rich
having to go extra lengths to keep the spiders out of the shed he
lives in, and dreaming of the day he can move on up to a caravan.
An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxidesThe H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! It's clean!
If the consequence of your doing that is only that the price of gridOn Jul 9, 6:41 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
One needs to take a pragmatic view. Some people may be willing to adjust
their lives to address CO2 emissions, but most people will simply follow
the path of least financial resistance.
The Government needs to ensure that that path doesn't represent an
increase in total cost without a commensurate environmental gain. As
things stand, that's very much in doubt.
Right, but if you could afford to pay 3-5 years power bill upfront
you can make substantial savings by investing on top of your roof!
And LOTS of them due to the flame temperatures.On 10/07/2012 1:36 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! It's clean!
An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides
of nitrgoen.
Sylvia.
A 120W/12v panel is only $300, although that is wholesale.I'm ordering 10 15W amorphous panels today ($1000)
Why?
to bring me up to 300W total, although the Mono's
barely work in winter due to the low > slope on the shed roof.
You can get brackets to mount the panels at greater slope than the roof.
Erk, I picked up 445AmpHrs (@12V) for under $1100 and that was retail.And 300AH in batteries ($1400)
Whatever for? You get the inverter for whatever you are running off itand not sure
what inverter, might get a $2000 inverter charger computer controlled
system so I know how to expand later.
It's just open plan living, septic loo in the corner, 12V shower on a
mat, spray the place with a huge dose of cochroach surface spray once
a month!
Slow form of self poisoning?
The beauty of a mortgage is that you (usually) only pay them off once.No point getting a $10K caravan now, take me a couple months to save
$50K, may as well get a mortgage.
Herc
1) Same as in a conventional IC motor vehicle.terryc wrote:
On 09/07/12 17:32, Clocky wrote:
Yes, but as revs increase the torque tapers off to nothing making
them completely useless for towing (beyond taking off perhaps where
maximum torque is available at 0 revs) or high speed acceleration.
Isn't that a bit like saying a porche is useless for shipping freight.
You can buy a Porsche quite capable of towing. You can't buy any electric
car suitable for towing or long range driving load carrying.
electric cars are generally solf for a particular use.
Restricted by their inherent problems from other uses you mean.
Nope,
In any case, it is simply a matter of designing the control circuits
to handle the situation.
Electric motors don't produce torque at high revs,that's a fundamental
design limitation. If you use gearing you then increase the load and power
consumption, reducing their range.
Shrug, in practical terms, the electric cars I see around(not the wankerSo you end up with a light weight chassis, incapable of towing and bloody
expensive to produce.
Why is it that your status as a wealthy person is always just around theOn Jul 10, 8:24 am, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 9, 1:39 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
Graham Cooper wrote:
On Jul 9, 11:24 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
herc.of.z...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 9, 9:28 am, "Clocky" <notg...@happen.com> wrote:
Yes but when you are trying to cool/heat a room you will soon
realise that the power required to do so using Peltier cooling (not
to mention the costs) will throw your cost effective solar powering
ideas into a festering heap.
But you won't listen to reason, so good luck with it. I would like
to see what you come up with though.
Not a room, a cool room.
of course a person producing 50W in heat isn't going to compete with
a 20W peltier!
so your INSULATION is inversely propotional to your COOLING POWER
most people off the grid buy a chest freezer and put a timer or
thermostat on it.
better insulation, and opening the door doesn't lose cool.
I might adapt some chest freezers with peltier coolers and tank of
water inside to keep thermal intertia during noon hours, running off
solar panels.
the shed is scorching in summer during afternoon, i have to get the
temperature down or I can't store ANY food!
A Peltier cooler setup that size would still likely use more energy
than a conventional freezer box which kinda defeats the purpose
doesn't it? I would insulate the shed walls and ceilings as a matter
of priority. Add some panelling to make it more homely. Should be
DIY simple and would make it more homely not to mention liveable.
yeh the compressor fridges are more efficient, but peltiers work too
and are solid state so you can leave them on for years and run at
different amps, no maintenance.
I'd be interested to see what you come up with and see how efficient,
reliable and cost effective it is.
I wouldn't' be able to use gas if I sealed the shed up. this will
just be a weekender once I've setup the water tank I can move on..
It could be a very comfortable weekender for little outlay. Shouldn't be a
problem since you're loaded, right?
Graham lives in a shed. It's bigger (I think) than the storage shed I
just had built, but not as nice. Yes, he's clearly "loaded", but he
would get even more loaded if he sealed up the shed and used gas in
it. Better yet, Graham, seal up the shed and just open the gas valve
a bit, with no flame. Then you won't have to worry about CO
poisoning. Happy dreams!
Easier to get a caravan or build a full house for something permanent
than do up a shed. But water, power, resources, etc. are good to have
on stand by.
Expecting armageddon?
More like expecting the authorities.
I boarded off the gaps between the concrete slab and walls so no
spiders crawl in anymore
What about the gaps at the top? I found they came in through there and had
to seal that. Ended up doing it by hanging a ceiling made from silver cell
insulationl. Secured it using metal screws to the centre beam and let it
droop slightly and fastened it to the sides with a bit of overlap. Looked
quite neat and worked a treat. I ilaid some carpet and nsulated the sides of
the shed and put some panels on to make it into a very comfortable
workshop/office.
You just can't get much better than a person who pretends to be rich
having to go extra lengths to keep the spiders out of the shed he
lives in, and dreaming of the day he can move on up to a caravan.
huh? I could afford 3 10 room mansions on the Gold Coast next week if
I wasn't on the bad tenants list.
I don't see the point in upgrading unless it's substantial.
I have 3 graphics artists on payroll at the moment.
I'm ordering 10 15W amorphous panels today ($1000) to bring me up to
300W total, although the Mono's barely work in winter due to the low
slope on the shed roof. And 300AH in batteries ($1400) and not sure
what inverter, might get a $2000 inverter charger computer controlled
system so I know how to expand later.
It's just open plan living, septic loo in the corner, 12V shower on a
mat, spray the place with a huge dose of cochroach surface spray once
a month!
No point getting a $10K caravan now, take me a couple months to save
$50K, may as well get a mortgage.
Herc
In theory. In practise it is different.Right, but if you could afford to pay 3-5 years power bill upfront
you can make substantial savings by investing on top of your roof!
Basic chemistry of nitrogen.On Jul 10, 12:04Â pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
In sci.physics Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 10/07/2012 1:36 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! Â It's clean!
An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides
of nitrgoen.
Sylvia.
And LOTS of them due to the flame temperatures.
not mentioned in Wikipedia.
More cheaply. I've explained how this comes about. If it weren't forOn Jul 10, 11:20 am, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 10/07/2012 3:18 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
On Jul 9, 6:41 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
One needs to take a pragmatic view. Some people may be willing to adjust
their lives to address CO2 emissions, but most people will simply follow
the path of least financial resistance.
The Government needs to ensure that that path doesn't represent an
increase in total cost without a commensurate environmental gain. As
things stand, that's very much in doubt.
Right, but if you could afford to pay 3-5 years power bill upfront
you can make substantial savings by investing on top of your roof!
If the consequence of your doing that is only that the price of grid
power rises, but without any reduction in CO2 emissions, then all you've
achieved is to transfer some of your power costs to other people. It's a
form of economic parasitism.
Sylvia.
You should know! but your theory is utterly absurd.
It relies on 2 dubious premises.
Dubious Premise 1: A varying load on the Power Station can be cheaply
accomplished with a less efficient generation method.
Appears to be entirely irrelevant.Dubious Premise 2: The Govt. will willingly save a few bucks at the
expense of burning more coal to generate less power.
TryOn Jul 10, 12:04 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
In sci.physics Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 10/07/2012 1:36 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! It's clean!
An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides
of nitrgoen.
Sylvia.
And LOTS of them due to the flame temperatures.
not mentioned in Wikipedia.
You mean the money never actually arrived in your hands. Leaving asideOn Jul 10, 12:38 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
No point getting a $10K caravan now, take me a couple months to save
$50K, may as well get a mortgage.
Herc
Why is it that your status as a wealthy person is always just around the
corner?
I uploaded 50 cloud pictures last year from 5 different beach front
apartments.
What happened to all the income you claimed you were getting in the past?
Sylvia.
I just wrote 20 reasons, but too much detail for public forum.
Too many middlemen I have no control of means ad profits don't readily
scale.
On 10/07/2012 3:18 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
On Jul 9, 6:41 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
One needs to take a pragmatic view. Some people may be willing to adjust
their lives to address CO2 emissions, but most people will simply follow
the path of least financial resistance.
The Government needs to ensure that that path doesn't represent an
increase in total cost without a commensurate environmental gain. As
things stand, that's very much in doubt.
Right, but if you could afford to pay 3-5 years power bill upfront
you can make substantial savings by investing on top of your roof!
If the consequence of your doing that is only that the price of grid
power rises, but without any reduction in CO2 emissions, then all you've
achieved is to transfer some of your power costs to other people. It's a
form of economic parasitism.
Sylvia.
not mentioned in Wikipedia.In sci.physics Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 10/07/2012 1:36 AM, Graham Cooper wrote:
The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! It's clean!
An H2 burning air breathing internal combustion engine gives of oxides
of nitrgoen.
Sylvia.
And LOTS of them due to the flame temperatures.
I uploaded 50 cloud pictures last year from 5 different beach frontNo point getting a $10K caravan now, take me a couple months to save
$50K, may as well get a mortgage.
Herc
Why is it that your status as a wealthy person is always just around the
corner?
What happened to all the income you claimed you were getting in the past?
Sylvia.
Australian fuel prices have not gone up that much over the yearsOn 7/9/2012 7:49 PM, keithr wrote:
On 9/07/2012 2:21 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 7/9/2012 2:02 PM, terryc wrote:
On 09/07/12 06:39, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Thinking outside the box over the weekend. Let's say you plonk a
dirty
great PV array on your roof in a year or two. Then you buy yourself a
Holden Volt. During the day, you plug your Volt into the power
supplied
by the PV array.
Umm, what is the point of having the Volt?
**You would need to ask the people who the Volt that question. For many
owners, no petrol will be required, except under unusual circumstances.
Is this for people who are at home during the day?
**I merely supplied a scenario where the Volt could be charged, with no
extra burdens placed on the grid and at no cost to the owners. Many
vehicles are garaged during the day and used to (say) drop the (lazy)
kids at school, do the shopping, etc.
With the Volt going to cost $60k plus the cost of the panels, the
economics are highly suspect.
**Now, that is true. Do you imagine that it will always be the case?
In 1908, the average US automobile cost US$3,000.00. In 1909, Henry Ford
introduced mass production techniques to the US auto industry and lower
the price to $850.00. Further refinements and economies of scale allowed
Ford to reduce the price of the Model T to $550.00.
Right now, electric automobiles represent a miniscule proportion of
production. Witness the Telsa Roadster. It's performance approximates
that of a cheap(?) Ferrari. It is priced similarly. It is built in
similar numbers. It is reasonable to accume that, when EVs are built in
huge numbers, that costs will fall.
What do you think people will be driving when fuel hits 5 Bucks a Litre?
Every time I see a Prius, it is being driven like fury obviously notOn 09/07/12 19:49, keithr wrote:
With the Volt going to cost $60k plus the cost of the panels, the
economics are highly suspect.
Yep, these cars are sold at status symbols.
**Perhaps I should ask:On 10/07/2012 7:12 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 7/9/2012 7:49 PM, keithr wrote:
On 9/07/2012 2:21 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 7/9/2012 2:02 PM, terryc wrote:
On 09/07/12 06:39, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Thinking outside the box over the weekend. Let's say you plonk a
dirty
great PV array on your roof in a year or two. Then you buy yourself a
Holden Volt. During the day, you plug your Volt into the power
supplied
by the PV array.
Umm, what is the point of having the Volt?
**You would need to ask the people who the Volt that question. For many
owners, no petrol will be required, except under unusual circumstances.
Is this for people who are at home during the day?
**I merely supplied a scenario where the Volt could be charged, with no
extra burdens placed on the grid and at no cost to the owners. Many
vehicles are garaged during the day and used to (say) drop the (lazy)
kids at school, do the shopping, etc.
With the Volt going to cost $60k plus the cost of the panels, the
economics are highly suspect.
**Now, that is true. Do you imagine that it will always be the case?
In 1908, the average US automobile cost US$3,000.00. In 1909, Henry Ford
introduced mass production techniques to the US auto industry and lower
the price to $850.00. Further refinements and economies of scale allowed
Ford to reduce the price of the Model T to $550.00.
Right now, electric automobiles represent a miniscule proportion of
production. Witness the Telsa Roadster. It's performance approximates
that of a cheap(?) Ferrari. It is priced similarly. It is built in
similar numbers. It is reasonable to accume that, when EVs are built in
huge numbers, that costs will fall.
What do you think people will be driving when fuel hits 5 Bucks a Litre?
Australian fuel prices have not gone up that much over the years
compared to the rest of the world. In 1998 petrol was about 85c per
litre, I moved to the US that year and was paying 90c/US gall. Now, even
here 500Km from Sydney we are paying $1.40/litre less than double,
meanwhile the yanks are now paying $3/US gall more than 3 times the
price. That's still significantly cheaper than here, but the
differential is closing.
On 10/07/2012 1:02 PM, Graham Cooper wrote:
Too many middlemen I have no control of means ad profits don't readily
scale.
You mean the money never actually arrived in your hands. Leaving aside
the reasons, I think this is what most of us believed - and still believe..
Sylvia.