We Really Had a Wonderful Life...

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid
Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the \"praecox feeling\"
in Stalin\'s presence.

I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It\'s not at all subtle, it\'s like
being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
person just isn\'t right in the head. When I later recounted this
experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

+1

I\'ve met two people for which that I\'d make that claim; one is diagnosed
schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don\'t have first-hand
confirmation.

[I discount numerous folks I knew at school as \"being odd\" was sort of
The Norm]

Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

And the environment/situation was suggestive of \"experimental oddness\"...
young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as \"adults\".

Part of \"relating\" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life \"as is\"
(or, as they were portraying themselves).

However, using this sort of \"feeling\" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
I\'d use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
not need to say anything for this to happen.

Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
out of the car. \"Something wrong\" but no way to describe *what*.

Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
subtle.

I don\'t know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
don\'t get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

Yes. \"Feeling\" is the right (informal) term. \"Vibe\".

I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
willing to \"suspend\" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
factor into your final assessment of another.

More to the point, it\'s a part of the ancient brain systems that
determine who *not* to trust.

Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

Yup. My point was as to the \"psychiatrist\'s\" comment. I\'d not consider
such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
\"feelings\" for a diagnosis.

Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
me.

Praecox feeling has a long history.

..<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/>


Joe Gwinn

 

[bitrex]

On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/


I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
Then I saw \"American Greatness\", and I guess otherwise.

Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
Modern propagandists have studied them.

\"If you tell a lie, tell a big one.\"

\"If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.\"

\"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.\"

\"Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
North Korea, and Iran in check\"

Keeping dictatorships \"in check\" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn\'t a good
long-term strategy.

\"and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?\"

We\'ve given up on the word \"peace\" as a goal and the word \"stability\" is
used to mean \"continual armed conflicts but ones we\'re familiar with.\"

 

[Don Y]

On 3/14/2022 12:12 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

However, using this sort of \"feeling\" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
I\'d use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
not need to say anything for this to happen.

Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
out of the car. \"Something wrong\" but no way to describe *what*.

Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
subtle.

I was young, at the time. And, was wondering what was wrong with *me* in
that I couldn\'t make sense of the situation. *His* behavior appeared
(to me) to be \"normal\" -- for him. So, clearly, it must be something
wrong on my end (?)

I (diplomatically) mentioned the experience to my boss and *his* reaction
was as if this was not unexpected -- with some allusions to mental health
issues (but, folks make such statements all the time so you never know when
its deliberate). So, this just reinforced my self-doubt...

I also recall seeing my friend (the first party mentioned) \"off meds\"
and feeling the same sort of fear (\"apprehension\" is probably the better
word... \"I don\'t want to BE here, right now!\"). Doubly disturbing as
I *knew* this person -- *well*!

It started me thinking about what it must be like when your \"mind\" is
broken. Sort of like \"what does a blind (from birth) person *see*?\"
but in a much grander scope. Do they see the rest of the world as
\"crazy\"? (And, how do they explain, to themselves, how only *they*
are \"normal\"? Really??? How would a rational person come to grips with
the notion that the entire rest of the world is \"wrong\", save them???)

I don\'t know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
don\'t get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

Yes. \"Feeling\" is the right (informal) term. \"Vibe\".

I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
willing to \"suspend\" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
factor into your final assessment of another.

More to the point, it\'s a part of the ancient brain systems that
determine who *not* to trust.

Yes. Like a woman thinking a guy to be a \"creep\" -- without being
able to list the items that gave her that feeling.

Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

Yup. My point was as to the \"psychiatrist\'s\" comment. I\'d not consider
such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
\"feelings\" for a diagnosis.

Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
me.

Aren\'t there any objective \"tests\" -- even if the professionals don\'t
understand WHY the results are indicative of a condition, they could,
at least, fall back on \"large numbers\": people who see ink-blot #4
as a rhinoceros are more likely to have condition X...

[*Objective* instead of subjective \"feelings\"]

Much of medicine is a correlation of tests/diagnostics with conditions
and illnesses, without actually (necessarily) understanding the underlying
mechanisms that come into play. Why shouldn\'t this be, as well?

Praecox feeling has a long history.

.<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:

On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/



I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
Then I saw \"American Greatness\", and I guess otherwise.

Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
Modern propagandists have studied them.

\"If you tell a lie, tell a big one.\"

\"If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.\"

\"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.\"


\"Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, North
Korea, and Iran in check\"

Keeping dictatorships \"in check\" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who appears
more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn\'t a good long-term strategy.

\"and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?\"

We\'ve given up on the word \"peace\" as a goal and the word \"stability\" is used to
mean \"continual armed conflicts but ones we\'re familiar with.\"

As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:01:59 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

And when he lost the election, after one term, he didn\'t stage a coup,
or as far as I know steal furniture from the White House. Questioning
the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

Weak argument! A president \'questions\' by investigating. The Donald
made reckless claims, but never investigated. Those who DID investigate
were never in accord with his claims. The constitution is quite clear on
election certification: the states have authority.

By denying the authoritative claims of the states on the election, the Donald
was in breach of \'full faith and credit\' as described in article 4, section 1
of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

[three_jeeps]

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:13:06 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid
Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the \"praecox feeling\"
in Stalin\'s presence.

I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It\'s not at all subtle, it\'s like
being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
person just isn\'t right in the head. When I later recounted this
experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

+1

I\'ve met two people for which that I\'d make that claim; one is diagnosed
schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don\'t have first-hand
confirmation.

[I discount numerous folks I knew at school as \"being odd\" was sort of
The Norm]

Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

And the environment/situation was suggestive of \"experimental oddness\"....
young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as \"adults\".

Part of \"relating\" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life \"as is\"
(or, as they were portraying themselves).

However, using this sort of \"feeling\" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
I\'d use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
not need to say anything for this to happen.

Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
out of the car. \"Something wrong\" but no way to describe *what*.

Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
subtle.


I don\'t know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
don\'t get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

Yes. \"Feeling\" is the right (informal) term. \"Vibe\".

I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
willing to \"suspend\" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
factor into your final assessment of another.

More to the point, it\'s a part of the ancient brain systems that
determine who *not* to trust.


Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

Yup. My point was as to the \"psychiatrist\'s\" comment. I\'d not consider
such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
\"feelings\" for a diagnosis.

Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
me.

Praecox feeling has a long history.

.<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/


Joe Gwinn

Yes, first discussed in 1941.
https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/494088

An interesting passage:
\"Thus, the praecox feeling implies in a single concept, denoted by a single term, at least two different gnoseological poles: a “subjective” one and an “objective” one. In our opinion, this distinction, even if somehow factitious, is critical to the process of understanding the criticisms of the praecox feeling as a diagnostic tool and its poor appeal among scientific researchers.\"

There seems to be some effort to move away from \'a feeling\' to a more substantive method of diagnosis. On method seems to be documentation of irrational behavior coupled with other methods. IIRC from my 4 psych courses, assessing irrational behavior can sometimes be difficult. In the case of Stalin, murdering ~300 top military and political leaders and then realizing that there is no one skilled enough to command your armies would qualify as irrational in most circles. ( Then again, the Great Purge where ~700K ppl were killed might also qualify as irrational behavior).

 

[bitrex]

On 3/14/2022 8:09 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:
On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/




I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
Then I saw \"American Greatness\", and I guess otherwise.

Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
Modern propagandists have studied them.

\"If you tell a lie, tell a big one.\"

\"If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.\"

\"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.\"


\"Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
North Korea, and Iran in check\"

Keeping dictatorships \"in check\" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn\'t a good
long-term strategy.

\"and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?\"

We\'ve given up on the word \"peace\" as a goal and the word \"stability\"
is used to mean \"continual armed conflicts but ones we\'re familiar with.\"

As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

Rule of thumb is the Middle East is \"stable\" when you\'re bombing it, and
\"unstable\" when it\'s bombing you.

<https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-have-bombed-yemen-more-than-bush-and-obama-combined-2020-10>

 

[bitrex]

On 3/14/2022 9:30 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 3/14/2022 8:09 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 14/03/22 19:44, bitrex wrote:
On 3/13/2022 4:28 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/03/22 22:53, amdx wrote:
https://amgreatness.com/2022/03/10/under-president-trump-we-really-had-a-wonderful-life/





I glanced at that and thought it was a sarcastic parody.
Then I saw \"American Greatness\", and I guess otherwise.

Idly spending a few minutes browsing the quotes of someone
who was a modern master of his trade yields these insights.
Modern propagandists have studied them.

\"If you tell a lie, tell a big one.\"

\"If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.\"

\"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.\"


\"Who wouldn’t prefer a reality that kept Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping,
North Korea, and Iran in check\"

Keeping dictatorships \"in check\" by deploying a wanna-be dictator who
appears more unhinged than the rest of them probably isn\'t a good
long-term strategy.

\"and brought stability to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords?\"

We\'ve given up on the word \"peace\" as a goal and the word \"stability\"
is used to mean \"continual armed conflicts but ones we\'re familiar
with.\"

As described by Orwell in 1984 - written in 1948. History rhymes.

Rule of thumb is the Middle East is \"stable\" when you\'re bombing it, and
\"unstable\" when it\'s bombing you.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-have-bombed-yemen-more-than-bush-and-obama-combined-2020-10

Or in the case of Gaza and the West Bank, they call it \"A period of
relative calm\" when Israel is conducting fire missions only every week,
which then gets \"broken\" when someone in Gaza fires a rocket.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 18:17:31 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps <jjhudak@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 3:13:06 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:36 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 2:48 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 13:11:43 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 3/13/2022 12:32 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
There is a school of thought that concludes that Stalin was a Paranoid
Schizophrenic, based on reports of experiencing the \"praecox feeling\"
in Stalin\'s presence.

I have had personal experience with having the praecox feeling when I
met someone in Baltimore in the 1970s. It\'s not at all subtle, it\'s like
being hit by a dead fish in the face. You instantly know that this
person just isn\'t right in the head. When I later recounted this
experience to a psychiatrist I met at a party, she immediately said
that this was diagnostic of Schizophrenia.

+1

I\'ve met two people for which that I\'d make that claim; one is diagnosed
schizophrenic... the other (who was SCARILY so!), I don\'t have first-hand
confirmation.

[I discount numerous folks I knew at school as \"being odd\" was sort of
The Norm]

Right. Simply being odd is nowhere near the praecox feeling.

And the environment/situation was suggestive of \"experimental oddness\"...
young people sorting out who they are, for the first time, as \"adults\".

Part of \"relating\" to others was sorting out who (what?) they were.
And, deciding if you wanted to accept them into your life \"as is\"
(or, as they were portraying themselves).

However, using this sort of \"feeling\" as a *diagnostic* seems dubious;
I\'d use it as a *hint* to go looking for other confirmation.

Back in the day, the praecox feeling was considered sufficient unto
itself. Most people sensed it, and the person giving the feeling did
not need to say anything for this to happen.

Yes. I gave the second of the two individuals (above) a ride to some
work-related event. By the end of the trip, I was desperate to get
out of the car. \"Something wrong\" but no way to describe *what*.

Sounds like the praecox feeling for sure. And it was not at all
subtle.


I don\'t know if a video is enough the cause a praecox feeling, but I
don\'t get the feeling from old news reels of Stalin et al at Malta.

This whole phenomena has to be very deeply rooted in the ancient parts
of the brain, being older than reason. As are many instincts.

Yes. \"Feeling\" is the right (informal) term. \"Vibe\".

I think we make lots of assessments on these informal, yet deeply
personal, sensations. Their intensity determines how much you are
willing to \"suspend\" your first impressions. But, ultimately, they
factor into your final assessment of another.

More to the point, it\'s a part of the ancient brain systems that
determine who *not* to trust.


Now days, there are questions about evidence and provability and so
on, but I would not pay that any mind. If you get that feeling about
somebody, exit immediately, debate later. Do not argue with yourself.

Yup. My point was as to the \"psychiatrist\'s\" comment. I\'d not consider
such a professional to be acting in good faith if they relied on THEIR
\"feelings\" for a diagnosis.

Well, no. Very little in psychology can be shown by technical means,
and so expert judgment has always been needed. The usual was a panel
of shrinks interview the subject, and then debate and vote. People
are trying to include technical evidence, but it seems premature to
me.

Praecox feeling has a long history.

.<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30476340/


Joe Gwinn
Yes, first discussed in 1941.

.<https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/494088

An interesting passage:
\"Thus, the praecox feeling implies in a single concept, denoted by a single term, at least two different gnoseological poles: a “subjective” one and an “objective” one. In our opinion, this distinction, even if somehow factitious, is critical to the process of understanding the criticisms of the praecox feeling as a diagnostic tool and its poor appeal among scientific researchers.\"

Wow. I take that word salad to mean that they have no idea how this
works, or why it exists.

It is in the shared experience of mankind that one has inexplicable
instincts, instincts that are correct often enough that it\'s a bad
idea to ignore them. This ought to be enough.


>There seems to be some effort to move away from \'a feeling\' to a more substantive method of diagnosis. On method seems to be documentation of irrational behavior coupled with other methods. IIRC from my 4 psych courses, assessing irrational behavior can sometimes be difficult. In the case of Stalin, murdering ~300 top military and political leaders and then realizing that there is no one skilled enough to command your armies would qualify as irrational in most circles. ( Then again, the Great Purge where ~700K ppl were killed might also qualify as irrational behavior).

I\'d be careful of that word \"rational\", because it easily leads to
assuming that people who don\'t agree must be crazy.

There are all kinds of counterexamples, and both contestants in a
debate may be right - the other is crazy. But different crazy.

Joe Gwinn

 

[server]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:55:41 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

Questioning
the honesty of the vote is entirely constitutional.

Lying about it was not. Inventing \"evidence\" was not. Wasting the time
and resources of electoral committees and courtrooms everywhere was not.
Inciting dissension, promoting hatred, splitting the country,
undermining democracy - how is that constitutional?

First Amendment.



Most people would

call the targeted attempts at dividing the country and convincing people
that democracy has failed as treason, not constitutional.

Look up the definition of treason.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[John Doe]

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
state or its representatives from limiting civilians\' freedom of speech.
It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
says to the public.

BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First
Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!
It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it\'s
going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
thrown in jail for lying! Doesn\'t matter that sometimes politicians are
convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces
while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
crime too, but law enforcement couldn\'t care less when a lawmaker lies to
us. I won\'t provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don\'t
want to encourage America-haters like \"David Brown\".

Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don\'t care who is
hating who.

 

[David Brown]

On 15/03/2022 18:08, John Doe wrote:

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
state or its representatives from limiting civilians\' freedom of speech.
It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
says to the public.

BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First
Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

Well, here in Norway we have an education system that aims to educate
our youth. Over in the USA, they consider it an achievement if the kid
is alive and not in jail by the end.

Most Americans - and that apparently includes John Larkin here - do not
understand the First Amendment but are so convinced that their
misconception is correct, they have not bothered to read it or any
explanation of it.

In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!

The First Amendment is not relevant to what the government may or may
not say. It only says that - within limits - it can\'t stop civilians
saying what they want.

It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it\'s
going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
thrown in jail for lying!

Citizens don\'t get jailed in the USA for lying (except under oath).
They might get jailed for inciting crimes, defamation, or otherwise
being a public nuisance or adversely affecting people\'s lives or safety.

Doesn\'t matter that sometimes politicians are
convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces
while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
crime too, but law enforcement couldn\'t care less when a lawmaker lies to
us. I won\'t provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don\'t
want to encourage America-haters like \"David Brown\".

I am not an \"America-hater\". I dislike and disapprove of certain
aspects of the country. There are lots of good and great things about
it too. The First Amendment, for example, is a great thing (as I said)
- but it helps to know what it says.

Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don\'t care who is
hating who.

Like Trump. (He didn\'t start the division, but he certainly encouraged
it more than anyone else.)

Personally, I\'d much rather see America united - it could be so much
better a place than it is, and do so much more good for Americans and
the rest of the world. If you lot took a break from hating your
neighbours so much and worked together, Putin wouldn\'t be invading
Ukraine, he\'d be booking space on your next flight to your Mars colony.

 

[John Doe]

A clueless America-bashing troll trying to justify
its idiotic prior comments...

--
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 20:48:11 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <t0qqhr$o8h$1@dont-email.me
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Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663153

On 15/03/2022 18:08, John Doe wrote:
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

Do you even know what the First Amendment is about? It prevents the
state or its representatives from limiting civilians\' freedom of speech.
It does not protect the state - such as the then president - in what he
says to the public.

BWAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

A clueless Norwegian dweeb trying to school an American on the First
Amendment and what our government can say. IGNORANT.

Well, here in Norway we have an education system that aims to educate
our youth. Over in the USA, they consider it an achievement if the kid
is alive and not in jail by the end.

Most Americans - and that apparently includes John Larkin here - do not
understand the First Amendment but are so convinced that their
misconception is correct, they have not bothered to read it or any
explanation of it.


In fact. Our government has more freedom of speech than we civilians do!

The First Amendment is not relevant to what the government may or may
not say. It only says that - within limits - it can\'t stop civilians
saying what they want.

It can stand at a podium, waive its finger in our faces, and lie like it\'s
going out of style. But when the situation is reversed, a citizen gets
thrown in jail for lying!

Citizens don\'t get jailed in the USA for lying (except under oath).
They might get jailed for inciting crimes, defamation, or otherwise
being a public nuisance or adversely affecting people\'s lives or safety.

Doesn\'t matter that sometimes politicians are
convicted for lying to unelected bureaucrats, they FREELY lie to OUR faces
while standing on their soapbox (bully pulpit). Lying to Congress is a
crime too, but law enforcement couldn\'t care less when a lawmaker lies to
us. I won\'t provide the most Obvious contemporary example because I don\'t
want to encourage America-haters like \"David Brown\".

I am not an \"America-hater\". I dislike and disapprove of certain
aspects of the country. There are lots of good and great things about
it too. The First Amendment, for example, is a great thing (as I said)
- but it helps to know what it says.


Some America-haters only care about dividing us. They don\'t care who is
hating who.


Like Trump. (He didn\'t start the division, but he certainly encouraged
it more than anyone else.)

Personally, I\'d much rather see America united - it could be so much
better a place than it is, and do so much more good for Americans and
the rest of the world. If you lot took a break from hating your
neighbours so much and worked together, Putin wouldn\'t be invading
Ukraine, he\'d be booking space on your next flight to your Mars colony.

 

[Edward Hernandez]

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:06:22 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me>.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow it\'s own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

NukgNVCc3/Ya

 

[John Doe]

Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can\'t get over it.

Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
except when it got a severe spanking...

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

See also...
Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don\'t get spanked!

Spanked Eddie...

--
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx14.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com
Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
References: <ibas2hl0bngj1frhiqe1a1vqd76cgj0qtl@4ax.com> <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0pgpt$mlp$1@dont-email.me> <8um03htskukkmcl8d0p8be368ttsecggn5@4ax.com> <t0q2gr$5rd$1@dont-email.me> <t0qh6n$kkv$4@dont-email.me> <t0qqhr$o8h$1@dont-email.me> <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me
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X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:35:46 UTC
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:35:46 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 1913
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663157 free.spam:17545

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:06:22 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <t0qv4e$tqf$1@dont-email.me>.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow it\'s own rules that it uses to troll other posters.

NukgNVCc3/Ya

 

[Edward Hernandez]

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:37:27 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t0r0un$de1$1@dont-email.me>).

Further, Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me> posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:01:09 -0000
(UTC):

Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
except insults to this group.

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe\'s post ratio
to USENET has been 52.5% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

gzb+XVoPdlD9

 

[Edward Hernandez]

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:45 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me>).

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

OpagIqNSsLsn

 

[John Doe]

Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can\'t get over it.

Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
except when it got a severe spanking...

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

See also...
Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don\'t get spanked!

Spanked Eddie...

--
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx10.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com
Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
References: <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <agu13h1m0q2eh14vrs2cigk4b9junmsl6s@4ax.com> <t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me
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X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:22 UTC
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:22 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 1907
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663163 free.spam:17549

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:45 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me>).

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

OpagIqNSsLsn

 

[Edward Hernandez]

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:40 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me>).

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

b1+ATlYI8FEk

 

[John Doe]

Poor liddle Eddie got spanked and just can\'t get over it.

Unless Eddie is nym-shifting, it has never posted anything NORMAL
except when it got a severe spanking...

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.repair/c/MesPLcGU4BE

Is Eddie a nym-shifting troll, or a newbie netcop wannabe?

See also...
Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>

Eddie is an example for all newbies. Don\'t get spanked!

Spanked Eddie...

--
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx04.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com
Subject: Re: We Really Had a Wonderful Life
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
References: <71bs2h1lrvcn2pj9guj4u1gu10f8p1bcr9@4ax.com> <5jds2htg7ha6uhm6ij3osggdcq2tut9u81@4ax.com> <atks2hhlti1e36d6kk13rmqdm79q7ksf1t@4ax.com> <jtus2hlsm48qen062idfci592tlc4ddbfl@4ax.com> <766t2h57pdrtdn01rlo8uqtm4bj6924mgb@4ax.com> <t0mtl0$irb$1@dont-email.me> <9jiu2h53bclgltq54u6v7ocg4blubofdch@4ax.com> <t0nvli$2gv$1@dont-email.me> <f8ev2hlvprvv4o82us4utm4qlacf5joman@4ax.com> <t0om2c$1pg$2@dont-email.me> <mtuv2hde3r6ck29k4jd1dq9nr2b034ojcp@4ax.com> <agu13h1m0q2eh14vrs2cigk4b9junmsl6s@4ax.com> <t0r22t$de1$3@dont-email.me> <2_7YJ.91420$an1.44018@usenetxs.com> <t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me
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Message-ID: <4%7YJ.343277$2c1.311462@usenetxs.com
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:59:28 UTC
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:59:28 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 1975
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:663165 free.spam:17551

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:58:40 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
t0r26g$de1$4@dont-email.me>).

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that the John Doe troll does not even
follow the rules it uses to troll other posters.

b1+ATlYI8FEk