War crimes?...

J

John S

Guest
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.
 
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.
 
John S wrote:
==========
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder.

** GIANT huh ??

War crimes ARE murders committed during a war.


...... Phil
 
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

No, that\'s fair game in rules of engagement, even with poison.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.

CNN (and others) has their own reporters on the ground, they are certainly not Ukraine\'s media.
 
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:44:23 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.
Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

It was likely a complete breakdown in command and control. But Putin is still ultimately responsibility for not enforcing rules of his army.
 
On 4/4/2022 10:14 PM, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

Putin is an animal, Zelenskyy is even looking more like Fidel Castro
every day with his beatnik beard and olive drab sweater vests, and Joe
Biden is out to lunch.

The longer the world manages to stumble along more-or-less OK despite
these dopes best efforts to annihilate it becomes ever more evidence of
a personal God, IMO.
 
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.

Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.
 
On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 1:44:23 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too..

Encouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.
Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

Putin isn\'t going to be ordering his soldiers to shoot individual civilians.. Command structures don\'t work like that. If he\'s prosecuted, it will be for not ordering the prosecution of the soldiers responsible, or perhaps tolerating a situation where they didn\'t get prosecuted. But it is his war, so the buck does stop with him.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On 05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.

What the Russian soldiers did here was murder /and/ a war crime. It is
both. But it should be investigated and handled as a military crime - a
war crime - rather than a civilian crime (\"normal\" murder) since they
are soldiers.

And as soldiers obeying orders, and supposedly controlled by superior
officers, then the responsibility for the crime lies with the soldiers
on front line pulling the trigger, and upwards through each layer of
officer and commander. It only stops if you can demonstrate that
someone was directly disobeying orders, or acting against training and
standard policy, and the commanding officer could not reasonably be
expected to know such criminal actions were likely or had happened.

Thus if some soldier or lower officer goes \"rogue\" and commits
atrocities, the higher officer is not to blame. But if that lower
officer is known to disregard the rules of war, or if the training
includes criminal methods of subduing a population, or if the higher
officer said \"I don\'t care how you do it, just take control of the town\"
- then the officer is equally guilty.

In the case of the Russian military, with its known structure and
training, and known history in other conflicts, /everyone/ was aware
that the Geneva Convention is regularly ignored at all levels in the
Russian military. The responsibility for war crimes goes all the way to
the top.

Yes, Putin is responsible for murder. He is /also/ a war criminal.
 
David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.

** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



....... Phil
 
On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 09:41:28 +0200, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.

What the Russian soldiers did here was murder /and/ a war crime. It is
both. But it should be investigated and handled as a military crime - a
war crime - rather than a civilian crime (\"normal\" murder) since they
are soldiers.

And as soldiers obeying orders, and supposedly controlled by superior
officers, then the responsibility for the crime lies with the soldiers
on front line pulling the trigger, and upwards through each layer of
officer and commander. It only stops if you can demonstrate that
someone was directly disobeying orders, or acting against training and
standard policy, and the commanding officer could not reasonably be
expected to know such criminal actions were likely or had happened.

Thus if some soldier or lower officer goes \"rogue\" and commits
atrocities, the higher officer is not to blame. But if that lower
officer is known to disregard the rules of war, or if the training
includes criminal methods of subduing a population, or if the higher
officer said \"I don\'t care how you do it, just take control of the town\"
- then the officer is equally guilty.

In the case of the Russian military, with its known structure and
training, and known history in other conflicts, /everyone/ was aware
that the Geneva Convention is regularly ignored at all levels in the
Russian military. The responsibility for war crimes goes all the way to
the top.

Yes, Putin is responsible for murder. He is /also/ a war criminal.

The Russian soldiers seem to be poorly trained and poorly lead and
poorly fed, in a war that makes no sense. The locals are shooting and
rocketing and even poisoning them. Some of them are going to get
crazy.

It wouldn\'t surprise me if some degree of terror is policy from the
very top. Putin is a psychopath.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



...... Phil

If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

Same for shelling apartment buildings.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

No, that\'s fair game in rules of engagement, even with poison.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.

CNN (and others) has their own reporters on the ground, they are certainly not Ukraine\'s media.

CNN are the Kings of Fake News. They\'ve been caught out countless
times fabricating fictitious news stories. No one should take
*anything* they say at face value or place *any* faith in it
whatsoever. And that also goes for MSNBC, the BBC and almost all the
others, too.
 
On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 20:44:19 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Yada yada yada. Your country has committed \"war crimes\" during war, too.

Wncouraging civilians to lob Molotov cocktails at soldiers is a war crime.

Anybody who doesn\'t question Ukraine\'s 100% state-controlled media is a
FOOL.

Shear WHATABOUTISM: each crime MUST be judged by its OWN merits. There is NO QUESTION that these are war crimes that must be prosecuted. The question is what orders came directly from Putin. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

The Russian army/ Red Army has a rich tradition of gratuitous
brutality in war. It goes back at least a hundred years. The army\'s
personel are more than capable of indulging in these vile behaviours
completely autonomously. It\'s simply their heritage; their culture and
tradition. Essentially a calling card if you will.
If you take on the Russians, you\'d better win, for the consequences
for your civilians if you lose are unthinkable.
 
On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



...... Phil

If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

Same for shelling apartment buildings.

It\'s a BIG \'if\' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.
They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
would not put anything past Zelensky.
This *is* \"one man\'s war\" as the media keep telling us. But it\'s of
Zelensky\'s making - not Putin.
 
On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 23:24:29 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

The longer the world manages to stumble along more-or-less OK despite
these dopes best efforts to annihilate it becomes ever more evidence of
a personal God, IMO.

Or the next best thing!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-force-personnel-ufos-deactivated-nukes/
 
On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



...... Phil

If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

Same for shelling apartment buildings.

It\'s a BIG \'if\' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
Russia.



They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
would not put anything past Zelensky.

How about the BBC?

This *is* \"one man\'s war\" as the media keep telling us. But it\'s of
Zelensky\'s making - not Putin.

Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn\'t like.


--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
 
On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 11:33:58 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



...... Phil

If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

Same for shelling apartment buildings.
It\'s a BIG \'if\' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

They would have to be staged with cooperation from Russian soldiers. There are satellite images of mass grave taken during Russian occupation. The media didn\'t know what they were, but can now be confirmed.

They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
would not put anything past Zelensky.
This *is* \"one man\'s war\" as the media keep telling us. But it\'s of
Zelensky\'s making - not Putin.

It\'s two men\'s war, but we know who is the aggressor.
 
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 19:33:51 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:37:55 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

David Brown Bullshit Artist wrote:
=========================
05/04/2022 04:14, John S wrote:
Bullshit!

Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back
its not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or
military - it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a
war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.



...... Phil

If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

Same for shelling apartment buildings.

It\'s a BIG \'if\' IMO. Those pictures could easily have been staged.

Did people volunteer to be dead for pictures?

All sorts of news agencies are reporting from Ukraine, and tell the
same stories. No independent reporters are reporting are allowed in
Russia.



They have been in the past and will be in the future. Public
perceptions need to be carefully managed in situations like this and I
would not put anything past Zelensky.

How about the BBC?

This *is* \"one man\'s war\" as the media keep telling us. But it\'s of
Zelensky\'s making - not Putin.

Good grief. Putin poisons people he doesn\'t like.

Cursitor Doom is a troll. Don\'t feed the trolls.



--
MRM
 
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
==================================
Any time a person is shot with their hands tied behind their back its
not a war crime, it\'s murder. Putin is a murder.

When soldiers (according to the official definition of \"armed
combatants\") murder someone from the other side - civilian or military -
it is a war crime.


** Only moves the goalposts to defining what constitutes \"murder\" in a war scenario.
Not one bit simple.
Unlike YOU sunshine.


If you tie someone\'s hands and shoot them, it doesn\'t matter what you
call it.

** How about will call it Fred ?

> Same for shelling apartment buildings.

** But fire bombing them like the UK and USA did in WW2 is OK ?
Not one bit simple.....

.... Phil
 

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