Wanted: Old Multimeters for... umm... some blogging fun

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:41:22 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

:
:"Trevor Wilson"
:
:>
:> **Interesting story. I can tell you that, having visited Japan, I am
:> certain the that term 'politically correct' has no meaning in Japanese.
:
:
:** That only shows, yet boringly again, the TW congenital defective has no
:idea what the term even means.
:
:The Japanese are one of the most " politically correct " peoples on earth
:!!!
:
:To them, good manners are everything - the truth on nearly anything is not
:allowed to be spoken.

In the Japanese business world, women are not considered to be worthy of holding
any position of power. When Japanese male executives arrive in Australia and
find they are having to deal with female executives, they almost turn up their
noses and treat them with disdain - and that is while there are other Australian
male executives present. When males aren't present then it gets even worse....

I know this to be true because my wife has been in that situation.
 
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:50:57 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:


:
:**Indeed. They go out of their way to pretend that they were the aggressors
:in WWII.
:


I think you meant "...NOT the agressors..."
 
"Ross Herbert"
Phil Allison

" The Japanese are one of the most " politically correct " peoples on earth
!!!
To them, good manners are everything - the truth on nearly anything is not
allowed to be spoken. "


** Political correctness is not what you think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness




...... Phil
 
"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:veep35pn553r8pa9l4qucpps0p6fk1lbla@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:50:57 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:


:
:**Indeed. They go out of their way to pretend that they were the
aggressors
:in WWII.
:


I think you meant "...NOT the agressors..."
Click to expand...
**OUCH! Mea culpa.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
 
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:buG_l.1347$kQ5.26@newsfe01.iad...
Phil Allison wrote:
"Ross Herbert"

The very first test you should conduct is the old "drop test" from
1.2M or thereabouts to simulate knocking it off the work bench.
After that you may not
have to carry out any further testing.


** One of the big advantages of DMMs is they tolerate such dropping
very well - I think the distance would have to be way more than
1.2m and the landing be onto concrete or similar to get a result.

Especially with the rubber holster meters of course.
I have several tests somewhat beyond 1.2m in mind...

Often it is the simplest things that catch out poorly designed meters.

Try these:

With the meter set to AC or DC volts, apply the probes a few times to
a source of 600 volts AC or DC.

With the meter set to read 200mA, connect the probes across the 240
volt AC supply.

Same with the meter set to read " ohms" .

The wearing of goggles and thick gloves is recommended.

Yup, any of those would pretty much snot most of the cheapie meters.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
Click to expand...
Geez Dave, that would probably snot some of the not so cheapies too. :-(
 
"KR"

I saw that video - and some of the posts - most pretty strange
including accusations of it being a "fluke advertisement".

** Fluke fans tend to be a bit rabid and Fluke haters are even worse.


Also, I had a couple of "cheap" digital meters in the 1980's (DSE) and
these were quite good, lasted many years, and did all I needed of
them, but remember that most of these "cheapies" were still japanese
made, and you can't compare a "cheap" meter from then with a "cheap"
meter from now - as the quality was no doubt much better then for the
"price range" in $AUD than what you get now.


** As I recall in the 80, the leading selling DMMs brands in Aussie were
the likes of of SOAR and Kaise. Having "auto -ranging" was a massive plus
as it largely elimineted dicky switch troubles that plagued mosts budget
models with 30 plus position rotarys.

However, the real distinction between cheapies and meters like Fluke is in
the area of user safety and being accidental abuse proof. Most cheapies are
just plain DANGEROUS if ever used on the AC mains or other high volatage,or
high current sources.

The three simple tests I suggested earlier in this thread should be passed
by any meter on sale - but sadly that is not the case.

Besides those - it should NEVER be possible for the leads of a DMM to
explode in an operator's face, or the banana plugs came out of the meter and
electrocute the operator when he/she trys to re-insert it.

Similarly, it must NOT be possible for the battery to fall out of its
compartment or even be accessed while the leads are still in use. Another
nasty electrocution hazard.

The SOAR and Kaise meters I saw or owned all failed all these VERY basic
requirements.


....... Phil
 
Alan Rutlidge wrote:
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:buG_l.1347$kQ5.26@newsfe01.iad...
Phil Allison wrote:
"Ross Herbert"

The very first test you should conduct is the old "drop test" from
1.2M or thereabouts to simulate knocking it off the work bench.
After that you may not
have to carry out any further testing.


** One of the big advantages of DMMs is they tolerate such dropping
very well - I think the distance would have to be way more than
1.2m and the landing be onto concrete or similar to get a result.

Especially with the rubber holster meters of course.
I have several tests somewhat beyond 1.2m in mind...

Often it is the simplest things that catch out poorly designed
meters. Try these:

With the meter set to AC or DC volts, apply the probes a few times
to a source of 600 volts AC or DC.

With the meter set to read 200mA, connect the probes across the 240
volt AC supply.

Same with the meter set to read " ohms" .

The wearing of goggles and thick gloves is recommended.

Yup, any of those would pretty much snot most of the cheapie meters.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/


Geez Dave, that would probably snot some of the not so cheapies too.
Click to expand...
That's the problem, it shouldn't. Any meter designed properly (regardless of
price really) should be able to pass those tests without problem. Sadly many
don't.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
 
On Jun 18, 5:24 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
One of my video blogs about cheap multimeters really got a lot of
interesting feedback, so I got to thinking it would be fun to do some
"torture tests" on a bunch of multimeters for a future blog. i.e. are
Fluke's really as rugged as they claim?, will a $20 cheapie actually survive
some horrid treatment etc

So I was wondering if anyone has any old digital multimeters they'd like to
donate for testing? It's ok if it's got dodgy screen segments or is out of
spec of whatever, so long as it works repeatabily on say DC volts, and works
well enough to give a reliable before/after pass/fail test.
Ideally I'd like to get a couple of Fluke's, a couple of no-name cheapies,
and maybe a couple of mid-range units. I'm on my way, but the more the
better.
Happy to pay postage of course.

And of course, ideas for testing accepted!

My reply email address is real.

Thanks
Dave.

--
===============================================> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
Click to expand...

I saw that video - and some of the posts - most pretty strange
including accusations of it being a "fluke advertisement".


Also, I had a couple of "cheap" digital meters in the 1980's (DSE) and
these were quite good, lasted many years, and did all I needed of
them, but remember that most of these "cheapies" were still japanese
made, and you can't compare a "cheap" meter from then with a "cheap"
meter from now - as the quality was no doubt much better then for the
"price range" in $AUD than what you get now.

Depending on your definition of Inflation in AUD, the "cheap" DSE
digital meters circa 1985 were around the $50 mark (From memory) which
today could equal as much as $150 today in real retail buying power.


When the second one expired (some LCD segments went bad after about 10
years) I lashed out and bought a fluke 87 (about $650AU at the time -
1995 or so) which I still use today without problems.

If the new model Fluke 87 that you reviewed is as good as the 90's
model in build quality - I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to
anyone.

I would consider updating myself actually.
 
KR wrote:
On Jun 18, 5:24 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
One of my video blogs about cheap multimeters really got a lot of
interesting feedback, so I got to thinking it would be fun to do some
"torture tests" on a bunch of multimeters for a future blog. i.e. are
Fluke's really as rugged as they claim?, will a $20 cheapie actually
survive
some horrid treatment etc

So I was wondering if anyone has any old digital multimeters they'd
like to
donate for testing? It's ok if it's got dodgy screen segments or is
out of
spec of whatever, so long as it works repeatabily on say DC volts,
and works
well enough to give a reliable before/after pass/fail test.
Ideally I'd like to get a couple of Fluke's, a couple of no-name
cheapies,
and maybe a couple of mid-range units. I'm on my way, but the more
the
better.
Happy to pay postage of course.

And of course, ideas for testing accepted!

My reply email address is real.

Thanks
Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/


I saw that video - and some of the posts - most pretty strange
including accusations of it being a "fluke advertisement".
Click to expand...
Yes, a lot of people didn't quite "get it".
There were many infuriated fans of cheap meters, particually on one
"hackers" forum, was rather humerous.

Also, I had a couple of "cheap" digital meters in the 1980's (DSE) and
these were quite good, lasted many years, and did all I needed of
them, but remember that most of these "cheapies" were still japanese
made, and you can't compare a "cheap" meter from then with a "cheap"
meter from now - as the quality was no doubt much better then for the
"price range" in $AUD than what you get now.
Click to expand...
I've found the same thing, the older "cheap" meters were much better quality
than the ultra cheap meters of recent times.
Although the cheap meters have improved in the last couple of years as SMD
construction and machine assembly becomes more common. Still leaves lots of
issues though like component quality, overload protection, brittle plastic,
dicky range switches etc.

If the new model Fluke 87 that you reviewed is as good as the 90's
model in build quality - I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to
anyone.
Click to expand...
It is just as good if not better than the original. I've owned both.

Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
 
Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Wilson"

**Interesting story. I can tell you that, having visited Japan, I am
certain the that term 'politically correct' has no meaning in Japanese.


** That only shows, yet boringly again, the TW congenital defective has no
idea what the term even means.

The Japanese are one of the most " politically correct " peoples on earth
!!!

To them, good manners are everything - the truth on nearly anything is not
allowed to be spoken.

As Basil Fawlty famously said:

" Don't mention the war.
I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. "




..... Phil
Click to expand...
You have obviously never spent a night on the piss in Tokyo with a bunch
of salarymen.
 
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t9k%l.31869$IP7.27714@newsfe23.iad...
Alan Rutlidge wrote:
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:buG_l.1347$kQ5.26@newsfe01.iad...
Phil Allison wrote:
"Ross Herbert"

The very first test you should conduct is the old "drop test" from
1.2M or thereabouts to simulate knocking it off the work bench.
After that you may not
have to carry out any further testing.


** One of the big advantages of DMMs is they tolerate such dropping
very well - I think the distance would have to be way more than
1.2m and the landing be onto concrete or similar to get a result.

Especially with the rubber holster meters of course.
I have several tests somewhat beyond 1.2m in mind...

Often it is the simplest things that catch out poorly designed
meters. Try these:

With the meter set to AC or DC volts, apply the probes a few times
to a source of 600 volts AC or DC.

With the meter set to read 200mA, connect the probes across the 240
volt AC supply.

Same with the meter set to read " ohms" .

The wearing of goggles and thick gloves is recommended.

Yup, any of those would pretty much snot most of the cheapie meters.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/


Geez Dave, that would probably snot some of the not so cheapies too.

That's the problem, it shouldn't. Any meter designed properly (regardless
of price really) should be able to pass those tests without problem. Sadly
many don't.
Click to expand...
My very first digital multimeter was a freebie I rescued from the bin where
I worked at the time.

It was no results on ACV and Ohms ranges so I opened it up to have a look,
as luck would have it there was a socketed OP-AMP chip on the board, with
nothing to lose I replaced that chip and the missing ranges came to life.

The following day I arranged to borrow a calibrated meter and used it to set
up my new toy, which had a couple of presets next to the chip. That was
about 30 years ago, I still have the DMM but its left at a location where
its use isn't critical.
 
Phil Allison wrote:
"KR"

I saw that video - and some of the posts - most pretty strange
including accusations of it being a "fluke advertisement".

** Fluke fans tend to be a bit rabid and Fluke haters are even worse.


Also, I had a couple of "cheap" digital meters in the 1980's (DSE) and
these were quite good, lasted many years, and did all I needed of
them, but remember that most of these "cheapies" were still japanese
made, and you can't compare a "cheap" meter from then with a "cheap"
meter from now - as the quality was no doubt much better then for the
"price range" in $AUD than what you get now.


** As I recall in the 80, the leading selling DMMs brands in Aussie
were the likes of of SOAR and Kaise. Having "auto -ranging" was a
massive plus as it largely elimineted dicky switch troubles that
plagued mosts budget models with 30 plus position rotarys.
Click to expand...
I've got an old Soar autoranger (made in Japan), my first digital meter
given to me as a hand-me-down.
Still working to this day.
I remember that exact same model being used in the Fluke advertisements of
the day with the slogan "How to beat the high cost of cheap meters", that
showed the beat-up Soar next to the shiny new Fluke.
Range switches are still one of the biggest reliability issues in meter
design, so autorangers do indeed help a lot in this respect.
My Soar has a real independent traditional switch mechanism rather than just
contacts on the PCB pads and a plastic rotary wheel etc used in the cheaper
models.
The real cheapies use crap quality gold plating on the PCB contact pads,
they tarish quick and wear out even quicker.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
 
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