Using mobile phone as an internet radio

[Phil Hobbs]

On 10/04/2012 07:11 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article<slrnk6ror4.jds.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:
Problem with that is my location. Shipping anything from anywhere except
China is too expensive to make it worth while. A $10 (postage included)
Samsung feed roller is worth buying, a part that does not fit in an
envelope and has to go in a USPS box costs 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of a
cheap Samsung printer. UPS/DHL/FDEDX double or tripple that price.

Also to be honest, the loss/theft rate from the US is too high to buy
from unless it is via PayPal and eBay.

Couple of years back I needed a new element for my Pace SX80 desolder
iron. Not one to be had in the UK. Got one from Pace US direct at not a
bad price - but they charged 40 gbp for P&P by courier - wouldn't send it
by post. So the delivered price was considerably more than the delivered
price from a UK supplier. If it had been coming from Hong Kong or China,
would have been less than half the price and free postage...

There's lots of stuff I'd buy from the US if they would sort out their
postal service. I get the impression as much is stolen as delivered.

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[George Herold]

On Oct 5, 6:20 am, Roderick Stewart
<r...@escapetime.removethisbit.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

In article <de99517e-e5e1-4f9d-91e0-

412ab3171...@o8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, George Herold wrote:
And that s it.  Repeated on and off means that the thin region has a
higher average temperature than the thick part of the filament.  It
evaporates faster and fails sooner.

Won't a thin region of a lamp filament have a higher temperature than
the rest of it all the time, not just when the lamp is turning on?

Rod.
--

Hmm, sure, maybe... I really have no idea. But I can't remember ever
seeing a bulb fail after being on for a while. (I'm sure it must
happen.) They almost always go when you turn them on, from which I
conclude that the turn on is more 'stressful'.

Say does Don Klipstein still lurk here? He may have some info on turn-
on failure.

http://donklipstein.com/

George H.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said. The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q>
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail. Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most
common. One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle. Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing. Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

George Herold wrote:

Hmm, sure, maybe... I really have no idea. But I can't remember ever
seeing a bulb fail after being on for a while.

It happens quite often in TV studios.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

 

[George Herold]

On Oct 5, 2:51 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs

pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Yep.  As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said.  The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail.

Grin, the internet as a 'fire hose' of information. I went searching
for something that contained "Philips tech. rev." and found a
reference to the following article,

H. Horster, E. Kauer and W. Lechner — The Burn-out Mechanism of
Incandescent Lamps Philips Technical Review 32,155-164, 1971.

It was referenced in "Illuminating Engineering - Page 32 - Google
Books"

But nothing about turn on failure... sigh.

Here is a patent by some of the same guys at Philips... lots of stuff
about the filament getting hottest in the middle.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3868159.html
(Actually a decently written patent.)

George H.



Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most

common.  One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle.  Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing.  Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.

--
Jeff Liebermann     je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

G

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said. The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail. Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most
common. One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle. Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing. Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.

--

All of those except the hot spot mechanism assume that the tungsten
work-hardens in the bulb and then fails from fatigue. However, that
isn't the case, because the annealing temperature of tungsten is about
1300 C, so the tungsten in a light bulb filament is always fully
annealed.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Phil Hobbs]

George Herold wrote:

On Oct 5, 2:51 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs

pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said. The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail.

Grin, the internet as a 'fire hose' of information. I went searching
for something that contained "Philips tech. rev." and found a
reference to the following article,

H. Horster, E. Kauer and W. Lechner — The Burn-out Mechanism of
Incandescent Lamps Philips Technical Review 32,155-164, 1971.

It was referenced in "Illuminating Engineering - Page 32 - Google
Books"

But nothing about turn on failure... sigh.

Here is a patent by some of the same guys at Philips... lots of stuff
about the filament getting hottest in the middle.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3868159.html
(Actually a decently written patent.)

George H.

Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most
common. One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle. Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing. Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.

I can believe that the filament is hottest in the middle. It's
furtherst from the support, so whatever conductive heat sinking there is
will be less, but more than that, it sees the radiative input from the
rest of the filament on both sides instead of just one.

Sort of similar to the case of a long solenoid, whose B field at the
ends is half what it is in the middle.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.

Probably the War of 1812.

Coming from Canada, I can tell you that the USPS is very nearly flawless
when compared with Canada Post. Those morons can't find their rear ends
with both hands and a map.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:00:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

George Herold wrote:

On Oct 5, 2:51 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs

pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said. The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail.

Grin, the internet as a 'fire hose' of information. I went searching
for something that contained "Philips tech. rev." and found a
reference to the following article,

H. Horster, E. Kauer and W. Lechner — The Burn-out Mechanism of
Incandescent Lamps Philips Technical Review 32,155-164, 1971.

It was referenced in "Illuminating Engineering - Page 32 - Google
Books"

But nothing about turn on failure... sigh.

Here is a patent by some of the same guys at Philips... lots of stuff
about the filament getting hottest in the middle.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3868159.html
(Actually a decently written patent.)

George H.

Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most
common. One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle. Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing. Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.


I can believe that the filament is hottest in the middle. It's
furtherst from the support, so whatever conductive heat sinking there is
will be less, but more than that, it sees the radiative input from the
rest of the filament on both sides instead of just one.

Aren't the filaments welded to the elements at the ends? It would seem that
this would cause a narrowing. ISTR most filaments broken near the supports,
which would be counter to the hotter-in-the-middle theory.

My theory is that bulbs tend to fail when turned on because of the thermal
shock but only because they were about to fail anyway. Cycling, itself,
doesn't have a huge effect on longevity, certainly not a factor of two.

Sort of similar to the case of a long solenoid, whose B field at the
ends is half what it is in the middle.

Do they only burn out when energized? ;-)

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:11:01 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.


Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Nope, not here either.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.

Follow the money.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.

Sigh. Ask 'your' post office why the rates are so damn high. The
rates are agreed on between countries, and the British system is the
only that people constantly complain about. Likely high tarriffs on
imports from the US that are imposed on incoming goods.

 

[T]

In article <k4jdel$cb4$2@reversiblemaps.ath.cx>, jasen@xnet.co.nz
says...

On 2012-10-02, jim stone <tgh6h56nzh@mail.invalid> wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
life ?

It may be bad for the battery

My favorite apps on my phone:

TuneIn, Pandora, ScannerRadioPro, EchoLink and RepeaterBook.

And that's kind of why I got the extended battery pack for the phone.

 

[MB]

On 06/10/2012 00:15, Phil Hobbs wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.


Probably the War of 1812.

Coming from Canada, I can tell you that the USPS is very nearly flawless
when compared with Canada Post. Those morons can't find their rear ends
with both hands and a map.

The Americans do seem generally to be used to sending a lot by courier
when we would just put in the post. Tending to happen in the UK also
even though the Royal Mail / Parcelforce often give a better service and
of course do not charge extra to send further. There has been a big
campaign in the North of Scotland about companies charging extra for
many postcode areas.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <mY2dnbVhx85fUPLNnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.

Sigh. Ask 'your' post office why the rates are so damn high. The
rates are agreed on between countries, and the British system is the
only that people constantly complain about. Likely high tarriffs on
imports from the US that are imposed on incoming goods.

Sigh. Try reading what was said. Most US companies refuse to send anything
to the UK by normal post. They insist on using a courier service. If the
fault was at the UK end, this would apply to all other countries sending
things here. I know logic isn't your strong point - at least compared to
your blind patriotism - but even then...

--
*Don't squat with your spurs on *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <EfmdnfC5gagOdvLNnZ2dnUVZ7radnZ2d@bt.com>,
MB <MB@nospam.nospam> wrote:

The Americans do seem generally to be used to sending a lot by courier
when we would just put in the post.

Quite. And I was simply guessing at an explanation. Any better guesses
happily considered.

Tending to happen in the UK also
even though the Royal Mail / Parcelforce often give a better service and
of course do not charge extra to send further. There has been a big
campaign in the North of Scotland about companies charging extra for
many postcode areas.

It's what happens when private firms cherry pick the most profitable stuff.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 10/05/2012 07:47 PM, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:00:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

George Herold wrote:

On Oct 5, 2:51 pm, Jeff Liebermann<je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:21 -0400, Phil Hobbs

pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I don't think so, because there's no mechanism for that, as I said. The
wire is fully annealed at all times, so there's no possibility of
progressive fatigue failure.

Oscillating filament light bulb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_DwwNVA-7Q
Whether the earths magnetic field is strong enough to induce such
oscillations is questionable.

While digging for the apparently mythical lifetime test data on
incandescent light bulbs, I've found numerous theories on why
filaments fail.

Grin, the internet as a 'fire hose' of information. I went searching
for something that contained "Philips tech. rev." and found a
reference to the following article,

H. Horster, E. Kauer and W. Lechner — The Burn-out Mechanism of
Incandescent Lamps Philips Technical Review 32,155-164, 1971.

It was referenced in "Illuminating Engineering - Page 32 - Google
Books"

But nothing about turn on failure... sigh.

Here is a patent by some of the same guys at Philips... lots of stuff
about the filament getting hottest in the middle.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3868159.html
(Actually a decently written patent.)

George H.

Tungsten evaporation, causing hot spots, is the most
common. One suggested that thermal cycling hardens the tungsten and
makes it brittle. Another suggested that the inrush current causes a
mechanical shock if it hits at the 60Hz peak, instead of at the zero
crossing. Yet another speculates that the temperature differential
between the hot filament, and the relatively cold mounting structure
may cause cracking.


I can believe that the filament is hottest in the middle. It's
furtherst from the support, so whatever conductive heat sinking there is
will be less, but more than that, it sees the radiative input from the
rest of the filament on both sides instead of just one.

Aren't the filaments welded to the elements at the ends? It would seem that
this would cause a narrowing. ISTR most filaments broken near the supports,
which would be counter to the hotter-in-the-middle theory.

The feedthroughs are made of Dumet, which is basically 42Ni stainless
with a borated copper coating to bind to the glass. It's much
lower-melting than the tungsten, so spot-welding them together shouldn't
affect the tungsten much.

A necked-down hot spot is a stress concentration point, and ones nearer
the support would have more mass hanging off them. When the filament
jumps at turn-on, hot spots at the ends will probably more torque applied.

My theory is that bulbs tend to fail when turned on because of the thermal
shock but only because they were about to fail anyway. Cycling, itself,
doesn't have a huge effect on longevity, certainly not a factor of two.

Sort of similar to the case of a long solenoid, whose B field at the
ends is half what it is in the middle.

Do they only burn out when energized? ;-)

I've never seen one burn out that wasn't energized. But you're the
big-iron transmitter guy. Gotta run, I have a bunch of guys coming to
the lab in a few minutes, and I have to start the coffee pot!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 10/06/2012 04:28 AM, MB wrote:

On 06/10/2012 00:15, Phil Hobbs wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <GcKdnTpQbqR-ofLNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

Other countries seem quite happy to use ordinary post to the UK. The US,
not. So explain that.


Probably the War of 1812.

Coming from Canada, I can tell you that the USPS is very nearly flawless
when compared with Canada Post. Those morons can't find their rear ends
with both hands and a map.


The Americans do seem generally to be used to sending a lot by courier
when we would just put in the post. Tending to happen in the UK also
even though the Royal Mail / Parcelforce often give a better service and
of course do not charge extra to send further. There has been a big
campaign in the North of Scotland about companies charging extra for
many postcode areas.

That's mostly a business etiquette thing, I think. Sending somebody a
bunch of business documents in the snail mail sort of says that their
input isn't that urgent. Letter mail here is also very secure IME.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Bob Masta]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:02:37 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I've never had a package stolen, as far as I can recall.

Me, either. It's probably that their postal system won't come to
reasonable terms with the US postal system.

I've never had a package stolen from the USPS, but I *have*
had one stolen from UPS.

Back in 1974 I had some stereo equipment stolen in a
break-in, and ordered a replacement to be sent UPS. The
shipment arrived while I was at work, so they left a note
that they'd try the next day. I called and said I'd pick it
up from their office after I got off work.

It was December, so there was a long line. After an
interminable wait, they said they didn't have the package...
must've gone out for delivery again by mistake. Got home,
no note. Called again and repeated everything the next day.

They finally admitted that they couldn't find the package,
and blamed it on the seasonal help. They eventually paid
for a replacement, after a lot of paperwork.

In all the years since, though, I've never had a problem.
(Of course, I became gun-shy about ordering "good stuff" in
December!)

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v7.10
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