Using FPGA to feed 80386

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Why couldn't this kind of mod be used with the
previous video's 450nm 90mA laser diode to
combine into a single system? If you set the
printer for highest resolution, and use staggered
laser diodes and a buffer circuit, you could
accumulate the print signals for each row, and then on the next row print them as it passes by
while accumulating that row's data.

It would only require always making sure you
print an extra little bit so the last real row isn't
invalidated by the eject.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpflg2KcORY

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Rickman wrote:

How do you connect traces through vias on
double sided boards?

The solution is obvious: solder material cast
into rivets, with a special tool for automated
insertion and mechanical compression, with
even an optional heated welding as by a
separate lower power laser step.

Also, there's no reason a device couldn't be
constructed to laser etch both sides at the same
time, even post-processong for burn-thrus in
liew of mechanical drilling. Use of staggered
lasers would also allow faster throughput.

I think there's a business opportunity here.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Rickman wrote:

...because there is no solder resist and shorts
are very hard to prevent.

A simultaneous parallel laser could burn thru
a transparency to provide the solder mask.

An assembly line could even be created to run
them N-off in assembled form. Automated
deposition of solder paste, physical IC packages,
run through an oven, cooldown and testing.

It could all be done in a year from idea to
production.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

crisabele wrote:

What's your experience designing and
building hardware previously?

Minimal. Nearly zero with regards to ICs, and
zero related to FPGAs.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I found these chips available for $10 each. 3.3V
fully static, 16-bit data bus.

http://www.findchips.com/search/ng80386sxl-33

I am considering them.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

rickman wrote:
> I was asking how *you* would do it at home...

Use an online service to get finished boards and
solder masks.

If I had money to do so, I would move into this
area of profession. Reminds me of welding (you
create physical things rather than intangible
things as with software).

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 1:47 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

How would I go about making my own boards?
I am aware of commercial companies which
have software you can download, and construct
the layout through their process manufacturing,
and you will receive boards and solder masks.

But are there things you can do yourself? Buy a
blank copper layer, cover with a photoresist,
expose a mask, and then chemically etch away
the exposed or unexposed are (depending on
the resist)?

I don't bother with that anymore. I think I made one or two PCBs back
in my misspent youth though. It is a messy, somewhat complex and
unrewarding task to make crude PCBs yourself and then you have corrosive
chemicals to dispose of. Even assembly of PCBs is a PITA in my opinion
although I will do a little work on them. But this is my perspective
where my eyes and hands are nowhere near as good as they used to be even
if my patience is a lot better.

I much prefer to let contract assembly houses do my dirty work for me.
PCBs can be downright cheap if you limit them to 4 layers. There are a
number of places which will batch numerous user's boards to make panels
(the size that the PCB fabricator produces) and then ship everyone their
individual boards. Oshpark is one I have seen a lot of. ITEAD provides
a similar service and will also do the assembly. Then I just read about
dirtypcbs.com who also make cheap PCBs.

FPGAs are easy because you can test your code in a simulator and reload
in the hardware anything that doesn't work. Actual hardware is not so
easy and mistakes can get expensive. You need to start small and work
your way up. Laying out a board has a *lot* of pitfalls. With a $50 to
$100 worth of parts on the board you don't want to mess it up too many
times.

--

Rick

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

ricknman wrote:
> Scopes and such can rack up big bucks.

I do have an oscilloscope. Got it in 1996.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 7:03 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

I found this video. It was interesting. Also some
instructables on the process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWnfnt2rNO0

It is not hard to make your own single sided PCBs for DIP packages and
the larger pitch leaded surface mount parts. But if you try to do
anything beyond that you will find it is quite an effort.

Etching is not the hard part. How do you connect traces through vias on
double sided boards? Even trying to do finer pitch parts on single
sided boards is hard because there is no solder resist and shorts are
very hard to prevent.

Remember, this video was an ad by Jameco.

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 11:48 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

rickman wrote:
I was asking how *you* would do it at home...

Use an online service to get finished boards and
solder masks.

If I had money to do so, I would move into this
area of profession. Reminds me of welding (you
create physical things rather than intangible
things as with software).

I expect it does take a bunch of money to make boards. The equipment is
rather expensive. But doing the design can be fairly inexpensive still.
It's the debug that requires expensive equipment. Scopes and such can
rack up big bucks.

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 7:50 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

Even better:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=4SNkzoOvoD8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRNQbEGwm4

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 10:59 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

Rickman wrote:
...because there is no solder resist and shorts
are very hard to prevent.

A simultaneous parallel laser could burn thru
a transparency to provide the solder mask.

An assembly line could even be created to run
them N-off in assembled form. Automated
deposition of solder paste, physical IC packages,
run through an oven, cooldown and testing.

It could all be done in a year from idea to
production.

Hmmmmm.... or they could make them the way they do now and save the
year!

I was asking how *you* would do it at home...

--

Rick

 

[chrisabele]

On 12/14/2014 6:56 PM, rickman wrote:

On 12/14/2014 1:47 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
How would I go about making my own boards?
I am aware of commercial companies which
have software you can download, and construct
the layout through their process manufacturing,
and you will receive boards and solder masks.

But are there things you can do yourself? Buy a
blank copper layer, cover with a photoresist,
expose a mask, and then chemically etch away
the exposed or unexposed are (depending on
the resist)?

I don't bother with that anymore. I think I made one or two PCBs back
in my misspent youth though. It is a messy, somewhat complex and
unrewarding task to make crude PCBs yourself and then you have corrosive
chemicals to dispose of. Even assembly of PCBs is a PITA in my opinion
although I will do a little work on them. But this is my perspective
where my eyes and hands are nowhere near as good as they used to be even
if my patience is a lot better.

I much prefer to let contract assembly houses do my dirty work for me.
PCBs can be downright cheap if you limit them to 4 layers. There are a
number of places which will batch numerous user's boards to make panels
(the size that the PCB fabricator produces) and then ship everyone their
individual boards. Oshpark is one I have seen a lot of. ITEAD provides
a similar service and will also do the assembly. Then I just read about
dirtypcbs.com who also make cheap PCBs.

FPGAs are easy because you can test your code in a simulator and reload
in the hardware anything that doesn't work. Actual hardware is not so
easy and mistakes can get expensive. You need to start small and work
your way up. Laying out a board has a *lot* of pitfalls. With a $50 to
$100 worth of parts on the board you don't want to mess it up too many
times.

Listen to Rick: don't try to make your own boards.

I don't have the kind of professional board layout experience that many
of the regular contributors here do, but I've played around at the
experimenter level for many years. I have etched my own boards (very
many years ago) and I don't recommend it. There are many way to mess it
up, and even if you do everything perfectly you'll only produce a crude
board. I haven't used the places Rick mentioned, but I've had good
results from Alberta Printed Circuits (http://www.apcircuits.com/).

Regardless of how you get the board made, you'll need to design it
first. There are lots of inexpensive (even free) CAD tools available and
I'm sure you can get good recommendations here. You'll need to create a
schematic as the first step in designing a PC board, even if you use an
integrated suite those will generally be separate tools.

And finally I'm not quite clear: are you honestly considering designing
and building a custom board for your project, or are you just curious
about the process and the step involved? What's your experience
designing and building hardware previously?

 

[hamilton]

On 12/14/2014 6:11 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

Version 2.0. Much faster, cleaner:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIIwU29H3E8

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

LOL, did you notice that the PCB is white and not green ??

What to know why ??

hamilton

 

[rickman]

On 12/14/2014 11:25 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

I found these chips available for $10 each. 3.3V
fully static, 16-bit data bus.

http://www.findchips.com/search/ng80386sxl-33

I am considering them.

Considering them for what? Are you planning to build something?

--

Rick

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Tom Gardener wrote:

I don't care what someone does to their own
eyes. I do care what they (might) do to other
people's eyes.

In the first video he held up filter glasses so he has some idea of eye protection.

This looks like a prototype being built in his
basement lab.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, December 15, 2014 8:36:34 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 15/12/14 13:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
Tom Gardener wrote:
I don't care what someone does to their own
eyes. I do care what they (might) do to other
people's eyes.

In the first video he held up filter glasses so he has some idea of eye protection.

Sure; but I don't care about his eyes.

*Did he also give them to passers by,*
*e.g. everyone else in the building?*

Motto from BT Labs, prominently displayed on relevant walls:
"Do not look into laser with remaining eye".
They were /very/ serious about specular reflections.

To me it looks like it's done at his home in his basement. Perhaps it's
done somewhere else. Being as it's a prototype, and being particularly
filmed for the video, it makes sense that it's all open. I'm sure the
final form would offer sufficient protection.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, December 15, 2014 8:18:16 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 15/12/14 04:01, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
crisabele wrote:
What's your experience designing and
building hardware previously?

Minimal. Nearly zero with regards to ICs, and
zero related to FPGAs.

If you are thinking of designing circuits and building boards
with FPGAs, then here's a couple of test questions. Good answers
are /necessary/ but not /sufficient/.

What is the highest frequency in your design?

Probably 33 MHz to 40 MHz.

> When would you choose to use 6 layers rather than 4?

I'm guessing: When you need to isolate analog and digital traffic, or
when your pin counts are sufficiently high that you need access to a
common ground plane that's not closely coupled to the power source.

What types of decoupling capacitors would you use, where would
you place them, and how would you connect them?

No idea. Wherever the people on forums like this tell me to put
them after they review my design.

> What shape decoupling capacitor is optimal?

Corn kernel shape.

Warning: there's a *lot* of work and understanding required
to get accurate answers to those questions. Poor answers will
result in non-working boards or pattern-sensitive boards.

No doubts. The majority of the things I would do would be fabric
connection, and in many cases, using existing designs which already
have those things figured out, but with different programming in
the FPGA for whatever task I'm pursuing.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, December 15, 2014 9:25:12 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 15/12/14 13:59, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
On Monday, December 15, 2014 8:36:34 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 15/12/14 13:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
Tom Gardener wrote:
I don't care what someone does to their own
eyes. I do care what they (might) do to other
people's eyes.

In the first video he held up filter glasses so he has some idea of eye protection.

Sure; but I don't care about his eyes.

*Did he also give them to passers by,*
*e.g. everyone else in the building?*

Motto from BT Labs, prominently displayed on relevant walls:
"Do not look into laser with remaining eye".
They were /very/ serious about specular reflections.

To me it looks like it's done at his home in his basement. Perhaps it's
done somewhere else. Being as it's a prototype, and being particularly
filmed for the video, it makes sense that it's all open. I'm sure the
final form would offer sufficient protection.

What makes you think that?

Counterexamples from a 10s google:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537608281/lazerblade-the-affordable-laser-cutter-engraver
http://mr-beam.org/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/820277733/laser-cube
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mrbeam/mr-beam-a-portable-laser-cutter-and-engraver-kit
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2117384013/flux-all-in-one-3d-printer-unlimited-elegant-simpl

Because the guy who is developing this laser etcher looks like he has
high skills. You see the multiple boards, the programming involved,
understanding a great many disciplines and bringing them together.
Plus, on his first video, he shows the filter lenses and posts a splash
screen warning about the dangers of laser light.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

 

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, December 15, 2014 9:54:58 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 15/12/14 14:29, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
On Monday, December 15, 2014 8:18:16 AM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 15/12/14 04:01, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
crisabele wrote:
What's your experience designing and
building hardware previously?

Minimal. Nearly zero with regards to ICs, and
zero related to FPGAs.

If you are thinking of designing circuits and building boards
with FPGAs, then here's a couple of test questions. Good answers
are /necessary/ but not /sufficient/.

What is the highest frequency in your design?

Probably 33 MHz to 40 MHz.

Nope. You are probably too low by a factor of *~100*.
Hint: the clock frequency is completely irrelevant.

My project involves building a 386-like CPU. I do not anticipate it
will run beyond 33 MHz to 40 MHz.

When would you choose to use 6 layers rather than 4?

I'm guessing: When you need to isolate analog and digital traffic, or
when your pin counts are sufficiently high that you need access to a
common ground plane that's not closely coupled to the power source.

Nope, not even close.
Hint: your circuit will have significant energy at GHz frequencies.

I don't intend on running at GHz frequencies. In fact, I'd like to
ultimately manufacture my CPU on 5,000 nm process technologies as
were used in mid-1980s.

What types of decoupling capacitors would you use, where would
you place them, and how would you connect them?

No idea. Wherever the people on forums like this tell me to put
them after they review my design.

You would be advised to read all the manufacturer's app notes.
For example Xilinx, for one family, has UG922 and UG483,
150 pages which are aimed at experienced PCB designers.

I hope by now you are considering buying an FPGA board and
adding your circuit to it as a daughter board or carrier board.
Ensure the connectors are impedance controlled and have good
grounding: many don't.

I appreciate your input. My design plans are to use the Altera FPGA
I've purchased, to connect an Ethernet board I've purchased and get
it running, and then develop from there. It will be all logic within
the FPGA at first. That will take time, and during that time I'll be
in a position to ask questions, read, learn, etc.

We'll see though... I am currently iterating through ideas, trying to
figure out how best to serve the Lord with my efforts.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin