USDA Suppressing Research- Rice Heading For Collapse

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360

So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.

Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.

https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 11:30:08 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.


Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

Why do you think that it can keep on rising?

If we are lucky this is the rising part of a S curve,and the transition to a slower rate of rise and eventual stability will happen smoothly.

If we aren't, the rapid rise will be followed by an equally rapid population crash.

Unrestrained anthropogenic global warming could produce the kind of wide-spread agricultural failure which could deliver that.

High population and rapid international travel could make an new and improved Spanish flu even more lethal. The Black Plague killed off about 30% of the population of Europe. We could do better.

Pollyannas aren't any more reliable as futurologists than merchants of doom..

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Robert Baer]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.


Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

That exponential growth looks rather self-destructive...

 

[Robert Baer]

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Dumb...people poop --> fertilizer ---> rice paddy ---> people looks
like a decent closed loop to me, unless some dummy insists on breaking
it to make money $elling fertilizer..

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:30:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

> Doom is eternal

One-track mind at work.

> Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

Was a graph of 'goodness of life' presented? Was there
an uptick somewhere on it?

Without knowing the cause of such an uptick to be a persistent
effect, you ought never extrapolate. Leave prediction to the
experts.

 

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:57:25 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:30:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

Doom is eternal

One-track mind at work.

Yes, Bloggsies', obcessed with finding things to fear.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

Was a graph of 'goodness of life' presented? Was there
an uptick somewhere on it?

Without knowing the cause of such an uptick to be a persistent
effect, you ought never extrapolate. Leave prediction to the
experts.

The cause of that upward GDP curve is hardly a mystery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djB9oK6pkbA

Electronics took over as the mechanical bits were leveling off.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:02:17 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.


Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

That exponential growth looks rather self-destructive...

What's pushing the world GDP curve up now is the billions of
impoverished people of the 3rd world catching up to the levels of the
developed countries. The curve will level off when they get reasonable
living standards, approaching ours. Birth rates will drop as they have
in other developed countries, population will level off below 10
billion, and if idiots quit starting wars, most everybody will be
fairly happy, or free to develop Western-style neuroses.

That scenario disappoints a lot of people who relish collapse and
misery.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:02:48 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population..


Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

That exponential growth looks rather self-destructive...

Malthus

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:59:58 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Dumb...people poop --> fertilizer ---> rice paddy ---> people looks
like a decent closed loop to me, unless some dummy insists on breaking
it to make money $elling fertilizer..

A farm that feeds just its owners might do with self-fertilization.

Once the majority of the population spent most of its effort trying to
feed itself, and didn't do that very well. Now, each farmer feeds
scores of non-farmers, who can do other things.

That sort of ratio needs machines and manufactured fertilizer.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:00:31 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know.. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Dumb...people poop --> fertilizer ---> rice paddy ---> people looks
like a decent closed loop to me, unless some dummy insists on breaking
it to make money $elling fertilizer..

You might get away with human manure and a nitrogen fixing cover crop in a small family plot, but it's just not going happen in an agro-industrial scale operation. Even when supplemented with synthetic nitrogen, rice requires hundreds of pounds of manure per acre. It's expensive to process sewage sludge and it always contains lots of other unhealthy contaminants.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 2:14:20 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:02:17 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

An internal government watchdog is starting an investigation into the USDA’s handling of climate science and communication after a series of POLITICO reports found that the department has been routinely burying its work on climate change, even as farmers and ranchers are increasingly dealing with its harmful effects.

POLITICO revealed one case in which USDA officials had tried to dissuade research partners at a university from disseminating their findings about how rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere led to a drop in key nutrients in rice, the world’s most important crop.



https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/22/usda-inspector-general-launches-climate-change-investigation-054360


So far, so good:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php

That graph is probably faked. And lbs/acre is not what you want to know. It's nutritional calories per acre, which they don't graph.


https://www.quora.com/If-you-compare-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-wheat-with-the-yield-of-one-acre-of-rice-which-can-support-more-people

Those figures will downturn to hell as drought becomes more relevant and the soil is depleted from overcropping. It's happened before. Then we're running out of reserve minerals with which to manufacture synthetic fertilizer. They'll be lucky to support even a fraction of the today's population.


Doom is eternal. We are, in theory, all dead by now. Population Bomb,
nuclear war, Club of Rome, global cooling, global warming, Peak Oil,
ozone hole.

Somehow, life just keeps getting better. Sorry.

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gdp-world.jpg

Why do you think that happened?

That exponential growth looks rather self-destructive...

What's pushing the world GDP curve up now is the billions of
impoverished people of the 3rd world catching up to the levels of the
developed countries. The curve will level off when they get reasonable
living standards, approaching ours. Birth rates will drop as they have
in other developed countries, population will level off below 10
billion, and if idiots quit starting wars, most everybody will be
fairly happy, or free to develop Western-style neuroses.

That scenario disappoints a lot of people who relish collapse and
misery.

They will have to get their energy from renewables. There is isn't enough oil left for burning fossil carbon to be an option, and if there were it would inject even more CO2 into the atmosphere, which would still be a very bad idea even though John Larkin is blind to the problem.

The amount of CO2 we've already dumped into the atmosphere - we are already up to 415ppm when our agriculture was developed for a world where it was 270ppm - is creating problems now.

They may get bad enough to satisfy the people who relish collapse and misery, which is John Larkin's term for people with enough sense to understand that such outcomes are possible, and should be avoided.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 3:20:30 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

... Now, each farmer feeds
scores of non-farmers, who can do other things.

That sort of ratio needs machines and manufactured fertilizer.

Thus, an unsustainable source of fertilizer, or degradation of biosphere
elements agriculture depends on, will result in first overpopulation, then
(as the source is depleted) displacement, agression, strife (or wars) over the last bits
of the resource, and then a population collapse, and/or reversion to low-tech agrarian
existence, or even hunter-gatherer.

Are you suggesting this is our inevitable doom unless agriculture is made
sustainable, and greenhouse gasses scavenged? Is there any OTHER conclusion to this line of reasoning?

Careful, thoughtful, forward-thinking persons have a pretty good grasp of this
situation.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 3:20:30 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

... Now, each farmer feeds
scores of non-farmers, who can do other things.

That sort of ratio needs machines and manufactured fertilizer.

Thus, an unsustainable source of fertilizer, or degradation of biosphere
elements agriculture depends on, will result in first overpopulation, then
(as the source is depleted) displacement, agression, strife (or wars) over the last bits
of the resource, and then a population collapse, and/or reversion to low-tech agrarian
existence, or even hunter-gatherer.

Are you suggesting this is our inevitable doom unless agriculture is made
sustainable, and greenhouse gasses scavenged? Is there any OTHER conclusion to this line of reasoning?

The likely scenario is that the population will stabilize and be in a
far better state than it is now. We have enough oil and gas to last us
a few hundred years, and time to transition gradually to fusion or
something.

The real looming danger to life on earth is the coming ice age. Maybe
we can prevent that. Save the coal for that.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

[on unsustainable agriculture]

The likely scenario is that the population will stabilize and be in a
far better state than it is now.

How does an overpopulation 'stabilize' without massive loss of life?
What kind of 'better state' do you envision, and why is it better?

Rose-colored glasses are NOT suitable for adults considering long-term policies.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:43:06 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

[on unsustainable agriculture]
The likely scenario is that the population will stabilize and be in a
far better state than it is now.

How does an overpopulation 'stabilize' without massive loss of life?

Birth rates drop, resources rise. It happened in the western world,
and Japan, and other places. It's a consequence of lower infant
mortality and wealth and education, especially female education.

And access to birth control. Lots of people don't want a baby every
year, especially a dead baby.


>What kind of 'better state' do you envision, and why is it better?

Less kids dying, less disease and suffering, better nutrition,
education and literacy, electricity and clean water, floors and roofs
and heaters and stoves, books, phones, stuff like that. The stuff we
have.

Rose-colored glasses are NOT suitable for adults considering long-term policies.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tm8wyli83nt1v4/human-progress.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5a1jf8249qqci2/food-consumption-calories.png?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/blftlyn0lomvymf/Climate_Deaths.jpg?raw=1

I'm doing my small part to help. You don't approve?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 6:28:21 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 3:20:30 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

... Now, each farmer feeds
scores of non-farmers, who can do other things.

That sort of ratio needs machines and manufactured fertilizer.

Thus, an unsustainable source of fertilizer, or degradation of biosphere
elements agriculture depends on, will result in first overpopulation, then
(as the source is depleted) displacement, agression, strife (or wars) over the last bits
of the resource, and then a population collapse, and/or reversion to low-tech agrarian
existence, or even hunter-gatherer.

Are you suggesting this is our inevitable doom unless agriculture is made
sustainable, and greenhouse gasses scavenged? Is there any OTHER conclusion to this line of reasoning?

The likely scenario is that the population will stabilize and be in a
far better state than it is now.

Only if you ignore what is actually going on. Failing to pay attention to anthropogenic global warming is a necessary part of the pollyanna delusion.

We have enough oil and gas to last us
a few hundred years, and time to transition gradually to fusion or
something.

We have enough oil, coal and gas to drive us far enough into anthropogenic global warming to engineer a spectacular population crash - if we were silly enough to ignore all the early warning signs.

The big fusion reactor in the sky is already providing a lot more energy than we are going to need for a some generations to come, and the cost of solar cells has already dropped enough to make them the cheapest power source in countries fairly close to the equator, and by the time they are providing close to 10% of our energy (rather than the 1% they do at the moment) they will probably cost a quarter of what they do now (which should cover the extra cost of the batteries and the pumped storage we'll need to keep the lights on overnight).

> The real looming danger to life on earth is the coming ice age.

John Larkin really can't be bothered to work out what it would take to start a new ice age.

We've already burnt enough fossil carbon to make that impossible for the next 800 years or so. It turns out that this was always going to a long interglacial, so we really shouldn't have bothered.

> Maybe we can prevent that. Save the coal for that.

It would be a good idea to save enough so that we could. Sadly, the fossil carbon extraction industry wants as much money as possible right now, and doesn't seem to have any interest in hanging onto a world where that money might buy anything more than mere survival (and only for those with pots of money).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:34:04 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:43:06 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

[on unsustainable agriculture]
The likely scenario is that the population will stabilize and be in a
far better state than it is now.

How does an overpopulation 'stabilize' without massive loss of life?

Birth rates drop, resources rise. It happened in the western world,
and Japan, and other places. It's a consequence of lower infant
mortality and wealth and education, especially female education.

And access to birth control. Lots of people don't want a baby every
year, especially a dead baby.


What kind of 'better state' do you envision, and why is it better?

Less kids dying, less disease and suffering, better nutrition,
education and literacy, electricity and clean water, floors and roofs
and heaters and stoves, books, phones, stuff like that. The stuff we
have.


Rose-colored glasses are NOT suitable for adults considering long-term policies.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tm8wyli83nt1v4/human-progress.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5a1jf8249qqci2/food-consumption-calories.png?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/blftlyn0lomvymf/Climate_Deaths.jpg?raw=1

I'm doing my small part to help. You don't approve?

What your statistics show is that we have managed to overcome a bunch of short-comings in the world as it was. They don't mention the fact that this involves using up resources now faster than they are being replaced.

Past success is not a predictor of future performance. China and Japan grew their economies at fabulous rates while they were catching up to west, but Japan isn't now growing any faster as the rest of the advanced industrial world, and China's growth is now slowing down.

Once you have worked out how to deal with existing problems, you start having to work out how to deal with new ones, and you don't seem to have a clue that such problems are already obvious.

I don't know exactly what you think you are doing to help the demographic revolution - spending money on women's education in third world countries is something you have mentioned - but that doesn't buy you the right to ignore everything else that's going on.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney