URGENT !! A nuclear plant near Minneapolis in th e U.S. state of Minnesota has leaked radioactive material fo r a second...

[Martin Brown]

On 04/04/2023 06:30, Don Y wrote:

On 4/3/2023 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not in a spreadsheet.  Unless you treat the spreadsheet as a text table
and all of the data as typeless.

Not so much typeless as can be of any valid data type.

And, it\'s commonplace to have a DBMS put constraints on data
in ways that spreadsheets can\'t/don\'t.  As well as having a wider
range of data types (how do you store a MAC in a spreadsheet?)

Infinite ways. As text, for example. As a huge number.

The reason you want \"typed\" fields is to reduce errors.
Is this a number: THIS
Is this a MAC:   HeLlOboysandgirls
Is this a float:  123.456.78,,90

A MAC is just a long hexadecimal number that is displayed differently.
I\'m sure it can be done if the sheet software can handle hex. Mine
doesn\'t.

It not only has to be a *valid* 48 bit hex value but it can\'t be
anything *more* (or less) than those 12 hex digits.

The peculiar thing here is that for reasons best known to itself Excel
DEC2HEX fails at 2^39 exactly). IOW

=DEC2HEX(2^39-1) works ok and shows 7FFFFFFFFF
=DEC2HEX(2^39) fails #NUM!

This is very odd when the standard float type can exactly represent any
power of two up to 2^(512+53) and the mantissa of a 64 bit FP can
exactly represent all numbers up to 2^54 (there is a hidden in the
hardware implicit leading 1 in all non-zero 64 bit FP values).

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

My pet hate on websites is having to put in a credit card number without
the spaces which makes it much easier to have an undetected typo. Groups
of four numbers separated by a space are trivial to flash read.
It isn\'t like removing spaces from a string is rocket science!

My other pet hate is collecting UK train tickets where in addition to
putting the card that you used to buy the train tickets you also have to
enter a high entropy code of 24 characters which does its best to
include one of all the ambiguos ones 1,I,l,0,O,5,S etc.

The delays this causes as people fight the stupid robotic ticket
dispenser to get their tickets is crazy! Now you can at finally download
them to a phone and avoid this queuing mess.

This is trivial to guarantee with a DBMS.  With a spreadsheet
(or untyped text), you rely entirely on the discipline of the person
entering the data (and we all know people are notorious for making
mistakes!)

I have seen way too many spreadsheets used as databases causing chaos.
It starts out OK with a smallish prototype project and the grows like
topsy until one day no-one knows how it works or how to maintain it.

Upto a couple of thousand records it doesn\'t make much difference either
way but go much beyond that and it is \"here be dragons\" territory.

DBMSs present so many richer ways of presenting and preserving
data to make the DBAs job easier.

+1

Spreadsheets are easier for accounting and management types to
understand though - DBMS has a much steeper learning curve.

This is doubly so for technical articles.

[Coffee table books are handled entirely differently... they are
*intended* to be physical items that folks can peruse leisurely]

I rely on being able to remember what the cover looks like or now with
google and wiki having so much online some key phrase I can recall.


--
Martin Brown

 

[Don Y]

On 4/5/2023 1:39 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 04/04/2023 06:30, Don Y wrote:
On 4/3/2023 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not in a spreadsheet.  Unless you treat the spreadsheet as a text table
and all of the data as typeless.

Not so much typeless as can be of any valid data type.

Yes. The point being that the \"field\" doesn\'t do anything to help YOU
ensure the data that you are typing is truly consistent with your
(declared) intent for that field.

This is one of the big gotchas in CSV formats... everything is just text.
You have to *hope* it was all entered correctly *and* will be interpreted
in exactly the same way that it was intended.

E.g., is a field of whitespace the same as an *empty* field?

And, it\'s commonplace to have a DBMS put constraints on data
in ways that spreadsheets can\'t/don\'t.  As well as having a wider
range of data types (how do you store a MAC in a spreadsheet?)

Infinite ways. As text, for example. As a huge number.

The reason you want \"typed\" fields is to reduce errors.
Is this a number: THIS
Is this a MAC:   HeLlOboysandgirls
Is this a float:  123.456.78,,90

A MAC is just a long hexadecimal number that is displayed differently. I\'m
sure it can be done if the sheet software can handle hex. Mine doesn\'t.

It not only has to be a *valid* 48 bit hex value but it can\'t be
anything *more* (or less) than those 12 hex digits.

The peculiar thing here is that for reasons best known to itself Excel DEC2HEX
fails at 2^39 exactly). IOW

=DEC2HEX(2^39-1)    works ok and shows 7FFFFFFFFF
=DEC2HEX(2^39)        fails #NUM!

Hmmmm.... 2^39 is 549 755 813 888
So, maybe the range of values representable is limited to 12 decimal digits?
I.e., 2^40 would be 1 099 511 627 776 (consider sign).

No, that still doesn\'t explain 2^39--

This is very odd when the standard float type can exactly represent any power
of two up to 2^(512+53) and the mantissa of a 64 bit FP can exactly represent
all numbers up to 2^54 (there is a hidden in the hardware implicit leading 1 in
all non-zero 64 bit FP values).

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

My pet hate on websites is having to put in a credit card number without the
spaces which makes it much easier to have an undetected typo. Groups of four
numbers separated by a space are trivial to flash read.
It isn\'t like removing spaces from a string is rocket science!

Many sites will insert the spaces as you type. Likewise, will format
phone numbers as (###) ###-####.

I built an ISBN data type for PostgreSQL that knows how (and where) to
insert the delimiters between group, publisher and title (plus check digit).
Note that each *value* chosen for \"group\" determines the number of digits
that will be available for publisher which in turn refines the width of the
title field.

The intent was to catch typos on data entry... if you type two many or few
digits between fields (based on the actual values you\'ve entered for those
fields), I can flag the entry as incorrect -- even if the digits (with
delimiters elided) was correct.

My other pet hate is collecting UK train tickets where in addition to putting
the card that you used to buy the train tickets you also have to enter a high
entropy code of 24 characters which does its best to include one of all the
ambiguos ones 1,I,l,0,O,5,S etc.

Yup. But, that\'s common of many license codes, passwords, etc. The folks
creating these encodings don\'t consider the fact that some other mindless droid
is going to decide on the typeface into which they are rendered.

I was just (snail) mailed a password, today, and had to play the O0, lI1
game until I found the correct combination that worked.

The delays this causes as people fight the stupid robotic ticket dispenser to
get their tickets is crazy! Now you can at finally download them to a phone and
avoid this queuing mess.

This is trivial to guarantee with a DBMS.  With a spreadsheet
(or untyped text), you rely entirely on the discipline of the person
entering the data (and we all know people are notorious for making
mistakes!)

I have seen way too many spreadsheets used as databases causing chaos. It
starts out OK with a smallish prototype project and the grows like topsy until
one day no-one knows how it works or how to maintain it.

Besides size (number of fields, number of records), the problem with
spreadsheets (and other \"flat\" databases) is that the folks creating them
often haven\'t fully thought out the data that will be stored therein.

Or, how it will be consumed.

E.g., when I was tracking information on my 6 (identical) workstations,
it was relatively easy to arrange these in a *flat* tabular form:
- two CPUs (always 6 core Xeons)
- 12 DIMMs
- two optical drives (my convention)
- four disk drives (again, my choice)
- two NICs
- two GPUs
- a BIOS
- a SAS \"BIOS\"
etc.

A single sheet of \"legal\" paper, in landscape orientation, let me have
all of the details at my fingertips.

But, when I decided to start tracking the details of ALL of my hosts,
there were too many architectural (and usage) variations to coerce
them all into this form.

Rather than trying to salvage an already dubious presentation, it
was smarter to just cut the data from the (FrameMaker) table and paste
it into a PostgreSQL database. Then, add other relations to address
the other issues that the new hosts presented.

Once you start working with relations, you think of data differently.

Upto a couple of thousand records it doesn\'t make much difference either way
but go much beyond that and it is \"here be dragons\" territory.

I don\'t think you can even do that large (long) of a spreadsheet, in
the general case. E.g., if I had 1000 hosts, how would I be able to
tell if I\'d already made an entry for some particular host? Scan the
(motherboard) MACs for duplicates? (CPUs, disks, memory, etc. are
all \"portable\" so a particular board could appear in multiple entries
and I\'d never be able to use it to uniquely resolve a host -- unless
I tracked board serial numbers and could verify the ACTUAL presence of
a particular board)

DBMSs present so many richer ways of presenting and preserving
data to make the DBAs job easier.

+1

Spreadsheets are easier for accounting and management types to understand
though - DBMS has a much steeper learning curve.

SWMBO designed (and implemented and maintained) a set of tables to track
capital expenditures for one of the local hospitals. Prior to her taking
on the job (\"self taught\"), they were using spreadsheets for this.

But, the physical form of the spreadsheet limits how you can (readily) use the
data.

If you have a spreadsheet for each project, then you can extract information
about *that* project: \"How much did it cost to paint the new emergency room
after the most recent renovation?\"

But, asking questions like \"How much do we spend on paint?\" requires you to
drag out each spreadsheet and make inquiries of it; then sum these. Have
you forgotten any projects (spreadsheets)?

And, the spreadsheet form coerces you into presenting (and tracking) the
data in the form that you *think * you will most likely want to view it.
E.g., you *may* create a column (field) for \"paint cost\" -- if you think
you will want to break that out, separately, later. But, will you qualify
those entries with \"name of painter\"? And, if \"ACME general services\"
provides you painting and carpentry services, will you be able to get a
figure for \"how much money did we spend at ACME in the past year (regardless
of project *or* service)?\"

SWMBO\'s boss (VP) would ask her for some arbitrary datum (either to
present data to *his* boss *or* to build an estimate for another potential
project) and she\'d have it for him in 15 minutes. The folks in the
Finance department (who actually paid the bills!) would be at it for
weeks trying to look through invoices in their willy-nilly system.

This is doubly so for technical articles.

[Coffee table books are handled entirely differently... they are
*intended* to be physical items that folks can peruse leisurely]

I rely on being able to remember what the cover looks like or now with google
and wiki having so much online some key phrase I can recall.

I have multiple copies of some books (e.g., different \"editions\") and
the covers often change. Similarly, novels that were released in individual
volumes... then in \"paired\" volumes (volumes 1+2, 3+4, etc.).

And, for fiction authors, often there is reuse of characters, locations,
etc. so trying to sort out which titles are *candidates* would be a
lot easier with FTS.

Sadly, I can\'t (yet) do these searches on my eReaders but have to rely
on an external DBMS to point me at the correct title. While it would
be nicer on the eReader(s), I can tolerate having to access the DBMS
for these hooks.

My *music* DB is really difficult to maintain. E.g., I may have 50 or
more \"performances\" of a particular title by a particular group. And,
the criteria that I use to locate a performance might be something like
\"song X when followed by song Y, sorted by total combined duration and
year of performance\". Or, \"song X with vocals by artist Y\". I am
still not satisfied with the (complex) schema that I created!

[I have a friend who \"collects\" performances of \"Ghost Riders in the Sky\".
He has *hundreds* of different artists/performances on hand. I can\'t
say that I\'d consider it worthy of that sort of effort... :-( ]

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-03 10:50, Martin Brown wrote:

On 01/04/2023 17:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabbypurr@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 17:38:04 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 17:19:34 +0100, Clive Arthur
cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/04/2023 17:10, John Larkin wrote:
I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d like the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?


If you mean comments in the sense that they\'re invisible to whatever
opens the .csv, then I don\'t think it\'s possible.
I assume the usual Microsoft thing, Excel or something, would be used.
I\'ve seen spreadsheets that start with a few introductory title lines.
And some that actually label the columns that follow.

Most csv files are just heaps of numbers with no context, no revision
control, no hint of author, date, or even what it is.

What difficulty are you having? You can put anything into any cell,
at least until you run into the many misinterpretations these
programs make.

I guess I could stick some words into the normally numeric cells, but
I have seen spreadsheets with nice title lines.

The cells of a spreadsheet are not \"normally numeric\" they are capable
of taking on any value that the computer can represent.

I suppose I can just generate a README.TXT file off to the side to
document what the csv actually is.

A few lines of text at the top with no commas in will be fine.
Your problem arises when something else expects the first line of the
file to contains headings in some particular format (eg Gnu plot).

So, I can\'t understand why so many people use spreadsheets. They are
awful as controlled engineering documents. Apparently there is not
even a standard for including comment lines.

They are extremely powerful tools for mocking up test data and having a
quick look see at modest amounts of experimental data.

The best thing about Excel or any other spreadsheet or scratchpad for
testing algorithms is that mistakes made in a spreadsheet are completely
orthogonal to those made in a procedural programming language.

You also have the oddity of Excel computing in FP and rounding to
strictly 15 decimal digits for display. This can sometimes cause
annoyance if you are working to machine precision. I have a work around
found by trial and error when I noticed an unusual value one day...

An example to demonstrate this behaviour (staring in A1):

column A     column B    column C

=1-2^ROW()    =1-A1        =(1-A1)

And drag them down to row 55

You will see that column B is rounded to 15 decimal digits but column C
is full machine precision 53 mantissa. This can be very useful. But it
is quite arcane and not so far as I know documented Excel behaviour.

LibreOffice calc, Linux:

-1 2 2
-3 4 4
-7 8 8
-15 16 16
-31 32 32
-63 64 64
-127 128 128
-255 256 256
-511 512 512
-1023 1024 1024
-2047 2048 2048
-4095 4096 4096
-8191 8192 8192
-16383 16384 16384
-32767 32768 32768
-65535 65536 65536
-131071 131072 131072
-262143 262144 262144
-524287 524288 524288
-1048575 1048576 1048576
-2097151 2097152 2097152
-4194303 4194304 4194304
-8388607 8388608 8388608
-16777215 16777216 16777216
-33554431 33554432 33554432
-67108863 67108864 67108864
-134217727 134217728 134217728
-268435455 268435456 268435456
-536870911 536870912 536870912
-1073741823 1073741824 1073741824
-2147483647 2147483648 2147483648
-4294967295 4294967296 4294967296
-8589934591 8589934592 8589934592
-17179869183 17179869184 17179869184
-34359738367 34359738368 34359738368
-68719476735 68719476736 68719476736
-137438953471 137438953472 137438953472
-274877906943 274877906944 274877906944
-549755813887 549755813888 549755813888
-1099511627775 1099511627776 1099511627776
-2199023255551 2199023255552 2199023255552
-4398046511103 4398046511104 4398046511104
-8796093022207 8796093022208 8796093022208
-17592186044415 17592186044416 17592186044416
-35184372088831 35184372088832 35184372088832
-70368744177663 70368744177664 70368744177664
-140737488355327 140737488355328 140737488355328
-281474976710655 281474976710656 281474976710656
-562949953421311 562949953421312 562949953421312
-1125899906842623 1125899906842624 1125899906842624
-2251799813685247 2251799813685248 2251799813685248
-4503599627370495 4503599627370496 4503599627370496
-9007199254740991 9,00719925474099E+015 9,00719925474099E+015
-1,8014398509482E+016 1,8014398509482E+016 1,8014398509482E+016
-3,6028797018964E+016 3,6028797018964E+016 3,6028797018964E+016

But then MS the help system would define \"Help\" as
\"He\" the masculine pronoun
\"LP\" obsolete black vinyl music disk now making a comeback.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 05/04/2023 10:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-03 10:50, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/04/2023 17:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabbypurr@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 17:38:04 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 17:19:34 +0100, Clive Arthur
cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/04/2023 17:10, John Larkin wrote:
I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to
use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d like the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?


If you mean comments in the sense that they\'re invisible to whatever
opens the .csv, then I don\'t think it\'s possible.
I assume the usual Microsoft thing, Excel or something, would be used.
I\'ve seen spreadsheets that start with a few introductory title lines.
And some that actually label the columns that follow.

Most csv files are just heaps of numbers with no context, no revision
control, no hint of author, date, or even what it is.

What difficulty are you having? You can put anything into any cell,
at least until you run into the many misinterpretations these
programs make.

I guess I could stick some words into the normally numeric cells, but
I have seen spreadsheets with nice title lines.

The cells of a spreadsheet are not \"normally numeric\" they are capable
of taking on any value that the computer can represent.

I suppose I can just generate a README.TXT file off to the side to
document what the csv actually is.

A few lines of text at the top with no commas in will be fine.
Your problem arises when something else expects the first line of the
file to contains headings in some particular format (eg Gnu plot).

So, I can\'t understand why so many people use spreadsheets. They are
awful as controlled engineering documents. Apparently there is not
even a standard for including comment lines.

They are extremely powerful tools for mocking up test data and having
a quick look see at modest amounts of experimental data.

The best thing about Excel or any other spreadsheet or scratchpad for
testing algorithms is that mistakes made in a spreadsheet are
completely orthogonal to those made in a procedural programming language.

You also have the oddity of Excel computing in FP and rounding to
strictly 15 decimal digits for display. This can sometimes cause
annoyance if you are working to machine precision. I have a work
around found by trial and error when I noticed an unusual value one
day...

An example to demonstrate this behaviour (staring in A1):

column A     column B    column C

=1-2^ROW()    =1-A1        =(1-A1)

And drag them down to row 55

You will see that column B is rounded to 15 decimal digits but column
C is full machine precision 53 mantissa. This can be very useful. But
it is quite arcane and not so far as I know documented Excel behaviour.

LibreOffice calc, Linux:

-1            2            2
-3            4            4
-7            8            8
-15            16            16

My typo! The first entry should read

=1-2^-ROW()

The object being to subtract powers of (1/2)^N from 1 until you hit the
machine precision limit. I\'d expect all Excel clones to do the same.
(otherwise you get subtle errors in spreadsheets on other platforms)

--
Martin Brown

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-05 10:39, Martin Brown wrote:

On 04/04/2023 06:30, Don Y wrote:
On 4/3/2023 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not in a spreadsheet.  Unless you treat the spreadsheet as a text table
and all of the data as typeless.

Not so much typeless as can be of any valid data type.

And, it\'s commonplace to have a DBMS put constraints on data
in ways that spreadsheets can\'t/don\'t.  As well as having a wider
range of data types (how do you store a MAC in a spreadsheet?)

Infinite ways. As text, for example. As a huge number.

The reason you want \"typed\" fields is to reduce errors.
Is this a number: THIS
Is this a MAC:   HeLlOboysandgirls
Is this a float:  123.456.78,,90

A MAC is just a long hexadecimal number that is displayed
differently. I\'m sure it can be done if the sheet software can handle
hex. Mine doesn\'t.

It not only has to be a *valid* 48 bit hex value but it can\'t be
anything *more* (or less) than those 12 hex digits.

The peculiar thing here is that for reasons best known to itself Excel
DEC2HEX fails at 2^39 exactly). IOW

=DEC2HEX(2^39-1)    works ok and shows 7FFFFFFFFF
=DEC2HEX(2^39)        fails #NUM!

This is very odd when the standard float type can exactly represent any
power of two up to 2^(512+53) and the mantissa of a 64 bit FP can
exactly represent all numbers up to 2^54 (there is a hidden in the
hardware implicit leading 1 in all non-zero 64 bit FP values).

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

My pet hate on websites is having to put in a credit card number without
the spaces which makes it much easier to have an undetected typo. Groups
of four numbers separated by a space are trivial to flash read.
It isn\'t like removing spaces from a string is rocket science!

+1

My other pet hate is collecting UK train tickets where in addition to
putting the card that you used to buy the train tickets you also have to
enter a high entropy code of 24 characters which does its best to
include one of all the ambiguos ones 1,I,l,0,O,5,S etc.

The delays this causes as people fight the stupid robotic ticket
dispenser to get their tickets is crazy! Now you can at finally download
them to a phone and avoid this queuing mess.

Oh. :-(

This is trivial to guarantee with a DBMS.  With a spreadsheet
(or untyped text), you rely entirely on the discipline of the person
entering the data (and we all know people are notorious for making
mistakes!)

I have seen way too many spreadsheets used as databases causing chaos.
It starts out OK with a smallish prototype project and the grows like
topsy until one day no-one knows how it works or how to maintain it.

Upto a couple of thousand records it doesn\'t make much difference either
way but go much beyond that and it is \"here be dragons\" territory.

DBMSs present so many richer ways of presenting and preserving
data to make the DBAs job easier.

+1

Spreadsheets are easier for accounting and management types to
understand though - DBMS has a much steeper learning curve.

M$ Access had very good stats and reporting features, for writing
reports for the bosses. At least when I used it by 1998.

This is doubly so for technical articles.

[Coffee table books are handled entirely differently... they are
*intended* to be physical items that folks can peruse leisurely]

I rely on being able to remember what the cover looks like or now with
google and wiki having so much online some key phrase I can recall.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-05 14:58, Martin Brown wrote:

On 05/04/2023 10:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:50, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/04/2023 17:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabbypurr@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 17:38:04 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 17:19:34 +0100, Clive Arthur
cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/04/2023 17:10, John Larkin wrote:
I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to
use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d like
the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?


If you mean comments in the sense that they\'re invisible to whatever
opens the .csv, then I don\'t think it\'s possible.
I assume the usual Microsoft thing, Excel or something, would be
used.
I\'ve seen spreadsheets that start with a few introductory title
lines.
And some that actually label the columns that follow.

Most csv files are just heaps of numbers with no context, no revision
control, no hint of author, date, or even what it is.

What difficulty are you having? You can put anything into any cell,
at least until you run into the many misinterpretations these
programs make.

I guess I could stick some words into the normally numeric cells, but
I have seen spreadsheets with nice title lines.

The cells of a spreadsheet are not \"normally numeric\" they are
capable of taking on any value that the computer can represent.

I suppose I can just generate a README.TXT file off to the side to
document what the csv actually is.

A few lines of text at the top with no commas in will be fine.
Your problem arises when something else expects the first line of the
file to contains headings in some particular format (eg Gnu plot).

So, I can\'t understand why so many people use spreadsheets. They are
awful as controlled engineering documents. Apparently there is not
even a standard for including comment lines.

They are extremely powerful tools for mocking up test data and having
a quick look see at modest amounts of experimental data.

The best thing about Excel or any other spreadsheet or scratchpad for
testing algorithms is that mistakes made in a spreadsheet are
completely orthogonal to those made in a procedural programming
language.

You also have the oddity of Excel computing in FP and rounding to
strictly 15 decimal digits for display. This can sometimes cause
annoyance if you are working to machine precision. I have a work
around found by trial and error when I noticed an unusual value one
day...

An example to demonstrate this behaviour (staring in A1):

column A     column B    column C

=1-2^ROW()    =1-A1        =(1-A1)

And drag them down to row 55

You will see that column B is rounded to 15 decimal digits but column
C is full machine precision 53 mantissa. This can be very useful. But
it is quite arcane and not so far as I know documented Excel behaviour.

LibreOffice calc, Linux:

-1            2            2
-3            4            4
-7            8            8
-15            16            16

My typo! The first entry should read

=1-2^-ROW()

Ah.

The object being to subtract powers of (1/2)^N from 1 until you hit the
machine precision limit. I\'d expect all Excel clones to do the same.
(otherwise you get subtle errors in spreadsheets on other platforms)

Now I get:

0,5 0,5 0,5
0,75 0,25 0,25
0,875 0,125 0,125
0,9375 0,0625 0,0625
0,96875 0,03125 0,03125
0,984375 0,015625 0,015625
0,9921875 0,0078125 0,0078125
0,99609375 0,00390625 0,00390625
0,998046875 0,001953125 0,001953125
0,9990234375 0,0009765625 0,0009765625
0,99951171875 0,00048828125 0,00048828125
0,999755859375 0,000244140625 0,000244140625
0,9998779296875 0,0001220703125 0,0001220703125
0,99993896484375 0,00006103515625 0,00006103515625
0,999969482421875 0,000030517578125 0,000030517578125
0,999984741210938 0,0000152587890625 0,0000152587890625
0,999992370605469 7,62939453125E-06 7,62939453125E-06
0,999996185302734 3,814697265625E-06 3,814697265625E-06
0,999998092651367 1,9073486328125E-06 1,9073486328125E-06
0,999999046325684 9,5367431640625E-07 9,5367431640625E-07
0,999999523162842 4,76837158203125E-07 4,76837158203125E-07
0,999999761581421 2,38418579101563E-07 2,38418579101563E-07
0,99999988079071 1,19209289550781E-07 1,19209289550781E-07
0,999999940395355 5,96046447753906E-08 5,96046447753906E-08
0,999999970197678 2,98023223876953E-08 2,98023223876953E-08
0,999999985098839 1,49011611938477E-08 1,49011611938477E-08
0,999999992549419 7,45058059692383E-09 7,45058059692383E-09
0,99999999627471 3,72529029846191E-09 3,72529029846191E-09
0,999999998137355 1,86264514923096E-09 1,86264514923096E-09
0,999999999068677 9,31322574615479E-10 9,31322574615479E-10
0,999999999534339 4,65661287307739E-10 4,65661287307739E-10
0,999999999767169 2,3283064365387E-10 2,3283064365387E-10
0,999999999883585 1,16415321826935E-10 1,16415321826935E-10
0,999999999941792 5,82076609134674E-11 5,82076609134674E-11
0,999999999970896 2,91038304567337E-11 2,91038304567337E-11
0,999999999985448 1,45519152283669E-11 1,45519152283669E-11
0,999999999992724 7,27595761418343E-12 7,27595761418343E-12
0,999999999996362 3,63797880709171E-12 3,63797880709171E-12
0,999999999998181 1,81898940354586E-12 1,81898940354586E-12
0,999999999999091 9,09494701772928E-13 9,09494701772928E-13
0,999999999999545 4,54747350886464E-13 4,54747350886464E-13
0,999999999999773 2,27373675443232E-13 2,27373675443232E-13
0,999999999999886 1,13686837721616E-13 1,13686837721616E-13
0,999999999999943 5,6843418860808E-14 5,6843418860808E-14
0,999999999999972 2,8421709430404E-14 2,8421709430404E-14
0,999999999999986 1,4210854715202E-14 1,4210854715202E-14
0,999999999999993 7,105427357601E-15 7,105427357601E-15
0,999999999999996 3,5527136788005E-15 3,5527136788005E-15
0,999999999999998 0 0
0,999999999999999 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0


That\'s better.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-05 07:14, Don Y wrote:

On 4/4/2023 3:36 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-04 07:30, Don Y wrote:
On 4/3/2023 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not in a spreadsheet.  Unless you treat the spreadsheet as a text
table
and all of the data as typeless.

In which case, why aren\'t you just using a word processor?  And,
living
with the inevitable mistakes that will creep into your data?  E.g.,
l00
is not a number -- despite looking like one!

In a database (\"relation\") you can \"relate\" different tables to
each other.
So, in addition to 1:1 relationships (implicit in a spreadsheet),
you can
have 1:1, 1:n, n:m, n:1, etc. relationships, as dictated by the data.

Just write several lines.

So, you have to be able to embed a newline in the field -- or, some
other
delimiter to separate list elements (that won\'t, itself, be present in
any of the elements).

And, the \"type\" of the field now needs to be \"list of _____\" (instead
of just \"_____\").

Or, you deal with simple text and hope anything that consumes the data
won\'t gag on an undiscovered error in the data (!)

Or just several rows.

And, then add a mechanism to tell anyone (anyTHING) using the data
that \"these N rows are to be treated as one entity\"?

And, it\'s commonplace to have a DBMS put constraints on data
in ways that spreadsheets can\'t/don\'t.  As well as having a wider
range of data types (how do you store a MAC in a spreadsheet?)

Infinite ways. As text, for example. As a huge number.

The reason you want \"typed\" fields is to reduce errors.
Is this a number: THIS
Is this a MAC:   HeLlOboysandgirls
Is this a float:  123.456.78,,90

A MAC is just a long hexadecimal number that is displayed
differently. I\'m sure it can be done if the sheet software can
handle hex. Mine doesn\'t.

It not only has to be a *valid* 48 bit hex value but it can\'t be
anything *more* (or less) than those 12 hex digits.

Just use a spreadsheet software that allows 12 hex digits, and have a
validation rule or macro.

No, I don\'t know of such software, but it is not an intrinsic
limitation, it can be done.

Maybe some spreadsheet software can be coaxed to display an integer as
hex.

You can also use a sheet of paper, a pencil and a straight-edge...

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

Yes, they can. Just write the MAC you wish. Of course they will clash
if they see one another, but you can wrongly program them like that.

But you can have that validation in a macro.
If one \"has\" to use a spreadsheet, one will find a way to do things.

All this just to *avoid* using a tool that already has these features
built in?

No, I\'m not arguing which is better, just that it can be done.

Was learning how to use an electronic spreadsheet THAT traumatic as to
turn you off on learning other design paradigms?

Well, as I don\'t use Windows I can\'t have M$ Access, and LO Base is not
that good.

This is trivial to guarantee with a DBMS.  With a spreadsheet
(or untyped text), you rely entirely on the discipline of the person
entering the data (and we all know people are notorious for making
mistakes!)

DBMSs present so many richer ways of presenting and preserving
data to make the DBAs job easier.

What do you do when there are two entries in a spreadsheet that
obviously refer to the same thing?  E.g., a part number having
two different descriptions?  In a DBMS, you can ensure that
all part numbers are unique (trying to add another record with
an existing part number throws an error).   You can also encode
other criteria to safeguard the data going into the relation.
E.g., \"biological child\'s age must be less than age of parents\"
(duh!) or \"birthdate must be in the past\", etc.

Try some simple problems in a spreadsheet... like keeping track
of the songs in your music collection.  Then, try to convince
yourself that your spreadsheet is better than just a textual table!

Or, document your family tree for a couple of generations.

I keep my \"list of books\" as a database with several related tables.
I\'m tempted to migrate to an spreadsheet, because, for instance, I
can thus carry it in my phone.

I don\'t carry a phone; my library exists on a set of eReaders.

I need to carry my list of books when I go shopping. If I don\'t have a
phone, I print it. I need the list or I can buy a repeated tittle by
mistake.

What\'s wrong with repeats?  If it was good enough to attract your
attention a *second* time -- even if you remember that this is a
potential second copy -- then why not buy it, use that purchase
as motivation to read it, again, NOW, and donate the \"consumed\"
copy to the library, etc.?

Well, my repeats are wasting space in my shelves, I have not been able
to gift it. And they are a waste of my money, and a chagrin, not been
able to enjoy a reading.

Caveat: they happen to be in English, and few people here enjoy reading
books in English.

In fact, I want to donate many old books and I still have not found
how/to whom.

Neither of us (SWMBO & I) have been in a bookstore in 3 decades
(we do go to the annual \"library book sale\", though).  We do all
of our book shopping on-line; it\'s highly unlikely that I\'m going
to find a brick-and-mortar, here, that will have the titles in
which I\'m interested \"on the shelf\".  Even the ones that *might*
be semi-mainstream.

Oh, I go to the library to find new tittles that I feel I might enjoy,
then buy them online as epubs.

Pet hate: not being able to buy those epubs at the physical library that
gave me an hour of pleasure looking around the aisles for new books. It
is stupid of them.

My most recent purchases:
   _Ologies and Isms_
   _Mouth Sounds_
   _Your Brain on Art_
   _Mechanisms for Reliable Distributed Real-Time Operating Systems_
   _Webster\'s Compact Rhyming Dictionary_

Man-Kzin Wars XIV
Cibola Burn By: James S. A. Corey
Road Rage By: Ruth Rendell
Simisola By: Ruth Rendell
Sad Cypress (Poirot) By: Agatha Christie
The Secret Adversary & And Then There We... By: Agatha Christie
Ender\'s Game By: Orson Scott Card
Last Seen Wearing By: Colin Dexter
Abaddon\'s Gate By: James S. A. Corey
Caliban\'s War De: James S. A. Corey
Sidi, de Arturo Pérez-Reverte

I likely wouldn\'t KNOW of these titles if my book shopping occurred
in brick-and-mortar bookstores!  OTOH, if I stumble on a reference
to a title while doing research, then I can open another window in
a browser and buy a copy - without having to remember to keep an
eye open for it \"in my travels\".

Kobo is stupid.

When I open their site, they geolocalize me and offer me books in
Spanish, despite me only buying from them books in English and having
configured my preferences to English.

(Books in Spanish I buy from another provider, local).

[I don\'t read \"novels\" until the author has written EVERY title in
a particular \"series\"/collection;

LOL

I\'m not keen on finishing a
\"volume\" and having to wait a year for the next in the series to
be available!  So, I usually have several \"partial collections\"
queued up waiting for the remaining \"volumes\" to become available.
Then, binge-read an entire series (I read ~500pp/week)]

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 05/04/2023 14:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-05 14:58, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/04/2023 10:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:50, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/04/2023 17:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabbypurr@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 17:38:04 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 17:19:34 +0100, Clive Arthur
cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/04/2023 17:10, John Larkin wrote:
I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to
use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d
like the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?


If you mean comments in the sense that they\'re invisible to
whatever
opens the .csv, then I don\'t think it\'s possible.
I assume the usual Microsoft thing, Excel or something, would be
used.
I\'ve seen spreadsheets that start with a few introductory title
lines.
And some that actually label the columns that follow.

Most csv files are just heaps of numbers with no context, no
revision
control, no hint of author, date, or even what it is.

What difficulty are you having? You can put anything into any
cell, at least until you run into the many misinterpretations
these programs make.

I guess I could stick some words into the normally numeric cells, but
I have seen spreadsheets with nice title lines.

The cells of a spreadsheet are not \"normally numeric\" they are
capable of taking on any value that the computer can represent.

I suppose I can just generate a README.TXT file off to the side to
document what the csv actually is.

A few lines of text at the top with no commas in will be fine.
Your problem arises when something else expects the first line of
the file to contains headings in some particular format (eg Gnu plot).

So, I can\'t understand why so many people use spreadsheets. They are
awful as controlled engineering documents. Apparently there is not
even a standard for including comment lines.

They are extremely powerful tools for mocking up test data and
having a quick look see at modest amounts of experimental data.

The best thing about Excel or any other spreadsheet or scratchpad
for testing algorithms is that mistakes made in a spreadsheet are
completely orthogonal to those made in a procedural programming
language.

You also have the oddity of Excel computing in FP and rounding to
strictly 15 decimal digits for display. This can sometimes cause
annoyance if you are working to machine precision. I have a work
around found by trial and error when I noticed an unusual value one
day...

An example to demonstrate this behaviour (staring in A1):

column A     column B    column C

=1-2^ROW()    =1-A1        =(1-A1)

And drag them down to row 55

You will see that column B is rounded to 15 decimal digits but
column C is full machine precision 53 mantissa. This can be very
useful. But it is quite arcane and not so far as I know documented
Excel behaviour.

LibreOffice calc, Linux:

-1            2            2
-3            4            4
-7            8            8
-15            16            16

My typo! The first entry should read

=1-2^-ROW()

Ah.

The object being to subtract powers of (1/2)^N from 1 until you hit
the machine precision limit. I\'d expect all Excel clones to do the same.
(otherwise you get subtle errors in spreadsheets on other platforms)

Now I get:

[snip]
0,999999999999986    1,4210854715202E-14    1,4210854715202E-14
0,999999999999993    7,105427357601E-15    7,105427357601E-15
0,999999999999996    3,5527136788005E-15    3,5527136788005E-15
0,999999999999998    0            0
0,999999999999999    0            0
1            0            0
1            0            0

That\'s better.

Actually no it\'s not.

There are multiple levels of non-compliance to the Excel de facto
standard even in this very simple test. This is what the answer should
look like in Excel 2010 which is what I happen to have on the machine
I\'m using right now. It is exactly the same on XL2021 too.

N x=1-2^-N =1-x =(1-x)
45 0.9999999999999720 2.84217E-14 2.84217E-14
46 0.9999999999999860 1.42109E-14 1.42109E-14
47 0.9999999999999930 7.10543E-15 7.10543E-15
48 0.9999999999999960 3.55271E-15 3.55271E-15
49 0.9999999999999980 1.77636E-15 1.77636E-15
50 0.9999999999999990 0 8.88178E-16
51 1.0000000000000000 0 4.44089E-16
52 1.0000000000000000 0 2.22045E-16
53 1.0000000000000000 0 1.11022E-16
54 1.0000000000000000 0 0

(I\'ve added a few tabs to align columns)

Note that it should get 2^-49 OK with 15 digit rounding, and it should
go right down to full machine precision when there are brackets around
the expression. The latter is AFAIK undocumented but useful behaviour.

I don\'t like what it does to N=50. It clearly can represent 1-2^-50 OK
and displays it as different to 1 but then says 1-x == 0. Inconsistent!!
I\'d have preferred them to put the threshold one factor of two lower.
ie. so 8.88e-16 rounds up to 1e-15.

--
Martin Brown

 

[Don Y]

On 4/5/2023 6:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

Yes, they can. Just write the MAC you wish. Of course they will clash if
they see one another, but you can wrongly program them like that.

But you can have that validation in a macro.
If one \"has\" to use a spreadsheet, one will find a way to do things.

All this just to *avoid* using a tool that already has these features
built in?

No, I\'m not arguing which is better, just that it can be done.

As I said:
\"You can also use a sheet of paper, a pencil and a straight-edge...\"
You can pry a nail out of a piece of lumber with a flat-blade screwdriver.
But, the *right* tool to use is either a claw hammer or a demo bar.

Given that the \"right\" tool is available (a DBMS), it\'s silly not
to use it just because you\'ve not yet *learned* how to use it.

Was learning how to use an electronic spreadsheet THAT traumatic as to
turn you off on learning other design paradigms?

Well, as I don\'t use Windows I can\'t have M$ Access, and LO Base is not that good.

I use PostgreSQL and pgadmin for a GUI. I\'ve not settled on a GUI for
access from windows clients; they all seem to have different bug sets.

I keep my \"list of books\" as a database with several related tables. I\'m
tempted to migrate to an spreadsheet, because, for instance, I can thus
carry it in my phone.

I don\'t carry a phone; my library exists on a set of eReaders.

I need to carry my list of books when I go shopping. If I don\'t have a
phone, I print it. I need the list or I can buy a repeated tittle by mistake.

What\'s wrong with repeats?  If it was good enough to attract your
attention a *second* time -- even if you remember that this is a
potential second copy -- then why not buy it, use that purchase
as motivation to read it, again, NOW, and donate the \"consumed\"
copy to the library, etc.?

Well, my repeats are wasting space in my shelves, I have not been able to gift
it. And they are a waste of my money, and a chagrin, not been able to enjoy a
reading.

Our local branch libraries accept donated texts and resell them (typ $1/each)
to raise money for odds-and-ends that the library can\'t easily purchase
through normal channels (e.g., if they want a folding table on which to display
sale items)

We have many \"second hand\" (\"thrift\") stores that also will take them as
donations with similar resale pricing.

Caveat: they happen to be in English, and few people here enjoy reading books
in English.

In fact, I want to donate many old books and I still have not found how/to whom.

Neither of us (SWMBO & I) have been in a bookstore in 3 decades
(we do go to the annual \"library book sale\", though).  We do all
of our book shopping on-line; it\'s highly unlikely that I\'m going
to find a brick-and-mortar, here, that will have the titles in
which I\'m interested \"on the shelf\".  Even the ones that *might*
be semi-mainstream.

Oh, I go to the library to find new tittles that I feel I might enjoy, then buy
them online as epubs.

Our library is primarily geared to mainstream titles. And, \"new\" releases
are often greatly delayed; the library has to decide to purchase it, has to
await delivery, then \"processing\" (dust jacket, dewey decimal tag, distribution
to various branch libraries) before it can be borrowed (or examined).
I typically have 15 titles \"on hold\" at any given time and may have to wait
a few *months* to get a copy (each patron is allowed 3 wks to use a title
*if* others are waiting for it; considerably longer if no one is waiting).

As a result, the title never appears on the shelves -- at *any* branch
library -- until it\'s popularity has faded.

Pet hate: not being able to buy those epubs at the physical library that gave
me an hour of pleasure looking around the aisles for new books. It is stupid of
them.

The libraries, here, are entirely funded from tax revenues. So, there is no
charge for a patron to \"become a member\" *or* borrow items. Even the
nominal fines for overdue items have been waived (to ensure folks don\'t
avoid the library for financial reasons).

The library will also chase down materials of interest to individual
patrons by canvasing other libraries around the country seeking an
available title. This is handy when doing research -- but, imposes
long access delays.

And, the time limits on items accessed in this way are very tightly
controlled and fines enforced.

It is costly for the library to provide this service as staff have
to research each title requested, submit the request to the (foreign)
libraries that might have the item, process it\'s receipt from them,
notify the local borrower, process the return from that borrower
and then ship the item back to the origin library.

OTOH, they are delighted to do this as it proves \"value\" to the
library *system*.

My most recent purchases:
    _Ologies and Isms_
    _Mouth Sounds_
    _Your Brain on Art_
    _Mechanisms for Reliable Distributed Real-Time Operating Systems_
    _Webster\'s Compact Rhyming Dictionary_

    Man-Kzin Wars XIV
     Cibola Burn By: James S. A. Corey
    Road Rage By: Ruth Rendell
    Simisola By: Ruth Rendell
    Sad Cypress (Poirot) By: Agatha Christie
    The Secret Adversary & And Then There We... By: Agatha Christie
    Ender\'s Game By: Orson Scott Card
    Last Seen Wearing By: Colin Dexter
    Abaddon\'s Gate By: James S. A. Corey
    Caliban\'s War De: James S. A. Corey
    Sidi, de Arturo Pérez-Reverte

Fiction?

Note that there were several (a dozen?) \"sequels\" to _Ender_. And, the seminal
short story that preceded it.

Most recently, I\'ve been going through Stross\'s writings (Laundry Files,
Merchant Princes, Halting State, etc.). Entertaining and prescient, IMO.

Before that, Neal Stephenson, Gene Wolfe, etc.

I like people that have written a lot -- so there\'s a lot to read!

(***REALLY*** enjoyed Adams\' work -- but he wrote too few titles and then
went and *died*! :< )

I likely wouldn\'t KNOW of these titles if my book shopping occurred
in brick-and-mortar bookstores!  OTOH, if I stumble on a reference
to a title while doing research, then I can open another window in
a browser and buy a copy - without having to remember to keep an
eye open for it \"in my travels\".

Kobo is stupid.

When I open their site, they geolocalize me and offer me books in Spanish,
despite me only buying from them books in English and having configured my
preferences to English.

(Books in Spanish I buy from another provider, local).

We have lots of places, on-line, to purchase titles. Many of my
\"technical\" titles are no longer in print so I have to scour the used
books vendors (and chuckle at how much more than the original retail
price I end up paying!).

[I don\'t read \"novels\" until the author has written EVERY title in
a particular \"series\"/collection;

LOL

I find it distressing to finish ~500pp and then have to wait a year
for the *next* chunk of 500pp. And, yet another after that!

So, I\'ve learned to look for clues in the front matter of each title:
\"Other books by ______:\". For serieses, the titles in the series
will often be grouped in consecutive order. The last title in such
a list gives a hint as to whether or not the title in your hand
represents the end of the story arc!

I\'m not keen on finishing a
\"volume\" and having to wait a year for the next in the series to
be available!  So, I usually have several \"partial collections\"
queued up waiting for the remaining \"volumes\" to become available.
Then, binge-read an entire series (I read ~500pp/week)]

...

 

[Commander Kinsey]

Thanks! It just so happens I just downloaded LTSpice, I\'d not got round to working out how to use it though. Where do you get the components to insert? I couldn\'t find the voltage source for example, only buttons for a handful of components.

I have loaded the file you created below. It appears the load gets 24V RMS, as I suspected - I wasn\'t sure as I could trace both 12V and 24V getting to the load, I guess the 24V wins. I was trying to give it two 12V in parallel, but the power is going forwards through one bridge and back through the other. Is there any way to stop this?


On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:05:54 +0100, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:

You have invented a four-diode bridge fed from the ends of the
transformer. The bridge branches connected to the centre tap are in
parallel, and they do not serve any useful purpose.

I re-drafted the schematic for LTSpice:

---- clip clip ----

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 224 16 112 16
WIRE 384 16 224 16
WIRE 496 16 384 16
WIRE 688 16 496 16
WIRE 112 64 112 16
WIRE 224 64 224 16
WIRE 384 64 384 16
WIRE 496 64 496 16
WIRE 688 96 688 16
WIRE 112 144 112 128
WIRE 112 144 -272 144
WIRE 224 144 224 128
WIRE 304 144 224 144
WIRE 384 144 384 128
WIRE 384 144 304 144
WIRE 496 144 496 128
WIRE 576 144 496 144
WIRE 112 176 112 144
WIRE 224 176 224 144
WIRE 384 176 384 144
WIRE 496 176 496 144
WIRE -272 208 -272 144
WIRE 112 288 112 240
WIRE 224 288 224 240
WIRE 224 288 112 288
WIRE 384 288 384 240
WIRE 384 288 224 288
WIRE 496 288 496 240
WIRE 496 288 384 288
WIRE 688 288 688 176
WIRE 688 288 496 288
WIRE -272 368 -272 288
WIRE -112 368 -272 368
WIRE 304 368 304 144
WIRE 304 368 -112 368
WIRE -112 416 -112 368
WIRE -272 448 -272 368
WIRE -272 576 -272 528
WIRE 576 576 576 144
WIRE 576 576 -272 576
FLAG -112 416 0
SYMBOL diode 128 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 128 240 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 240 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 240 240 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 400 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D5
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 400 240 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 512 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D7
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL diode 512 240 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D8
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL res 672 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 120
SYMBOL voltage -272 192 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 17 100)
SYMBOL voltage -272 432 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 17 100)
TEXT 70 454 Left 2 !.tran 100m

---- clip clip ----

 

[Rich S]

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 4:11:05 PM UTC, John Larkin wrote:

I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d like the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?

if you have Excel 2021 or 365, then
the function to use is TEXTJOIN
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/textjoin-function-357b449a-ec91-49d0-80c3-0e8fc845691c

put your strings in a contiguous range of cells
say, A10:X10
in Z10 enter =TEXTJOIN(\",\",1,A1-:X10)

Oh, if you dont have Excel 2021 or 365, then Google Sheets will work too.
regards, Rich S.

 

[Rich S]

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 4:11:05 PM UTC, John Larkin wrote:

I\'m writing a program to create a CSV file that lists possible
resistor matrix values. I might hand it off to other people to use. I
don\'t use spreadsheets so don\'t know much about them.

I can do lines with numbers and strings and commas, but I\'d like the
spreadsheets to start with introductory comments. So, how does one
format comments into a csv file?

(I re-posted with a typo corrected)

if you have Excel 2021 or 365, then
the function to use is TEXTJOIN
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/textjoin-function-357b449a-ec91-49d0-80c3-0e8fc845691c

put your strings in a contiguous range of cells
say, A10:X10
in Z10 enter
=TEXTJOIN(\",\", 1, A1:X10)

Oh, if you dont have Excel 2021 or 365, then Google Sheets will work too.

The first line in the CSV file should be the header names of course.
Must use database friendly header names, IME. The headers must use
consist of only letters, numbers, and the underscore character. Must begin
with a letter, typically.

also, check what file format the receiving system needs.
e.g., in the databases I work with, it is \"MacOS\" CSV file format,
with UTF-8 encoding -- not Windows default CSV --
(MacOS uses CR as EOL, and CR+LF as EOF).

regards, Rich S.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-05 19:37, Don Y wrote:

On 4/5/2023 6:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Additionally, depending on the table in which it resides, it might
need to be different from all other MACs present in that field
(for other entries) -- because no two devices have the same MAC.

Yes, they can. Just write the MAC you wish. Of course they will
clash if they see one another, but you can wrongly program them like
that.

But you can have that validation in a macro.
If one \"has\" to use a spreadsheet, one will find a way to do things.

All this just to *avoid* using a tool that already has these features
built in?

No, I\'m not arguing which is better, just that it can be done.

As I said:
    \"You can also use a sheet of paper, a pencil and a straight-edge...\"
You can pry a nail out of a piece of lumber with a flat-blade screwdriver.
But, the *right* tool to use is either a claw hammer or a demo bar.

Doesn\'t count

Given that the \"right\" tool is available (a DBMS), it\'s silly not
to use it just because you\'ve not yet *learned* how to use it.

I can\'t access my database from the phone. I might, but not when
shopping and out of reach of my LAN. Yes, I could do it, but too much
effort for my laziness. And accessing it from my phone is a need for me.

Was learning how to use an electronic spreadsheet THAT traumatic as to
turn you off on learning other design paradigms?

Well, as I don\'t use Windows I can\'t have M$ Access, and LO Base is
not that good.

I use PostgreSQL and pgadmin for a GUI.  I\'ve not settled on a GUI for
access from windows clients; they all seem to have different bug sets.

I liked \"Rekall\". Easy to use. Defunct.

I keep my \"list of books\" as a database with several related
tables. I\'m tempted to migrate to an spreadsheet, because, for
instance, I can thus carry it in my phone.

I don\'t carry a phone; my library exists on a set of eReaders.

I need to carry my list of books when I go shopping. If I don\'t have
a phone, I print it. I need the list or I can buy a repeated tittle
by mistake.

What\'s wrong with repeats?  If it was good enough to attract your
attention a *second* time -- even if you remember that this is a
potential second copy -- then why not buy it, use that purchase
as motivation to read it, again, NOW, and donate the \"consumed\"
copy to the library, etc.?

Well, my repeats are wasting space in my shelves, I have not been able
to gift it. And they are a waste of my money, and a chagrin, not been
able to enjoy a reading.

Our local branch libraries accept donated texts and resell them (typ
$1/each)
to raise money for odds-and-ends that the library can\'t easily purchase
through normal channels (e.g., if they want a folding table on which to
display
sale items)

We have many \"second hand\" (\"thrift\") stores that also will take them as
donations with similar resale pricing.

I don\'t know any in my part of the world.

Caveat: they happen to be in English, and few people here enjoy
reading books in English.

In fact, I want to donate many old books and I still have not found
how/to whom.

Neither of us (SWMBO & I) have been in a bookstore in 3 decades
(we do go to the annual \"library book sale\", though).  We do all
of our book shopping on-line; it\'s highly unlikely that I\'m going
to find a brick-and-mortar, here, that will have the titles in
which I\'m interested \"on the shelf\".  Even the ones that *might*
be semi-mainstream.

Oh, I go to the library to find new tittles that I feel I might enjoy,
then buy them online as epubs.

Our library is primarily geared to mainstream titles.  And, \"new\" releases
are often greatly delayed; the library has to decide to purchase it, has to
await delivery, then \"processing\" (dust jacket, dewey decimal tag,
distribution
to various branch libraries) before it can be borrowed (or examined).
I typically have 15 titles \"on hold\" at any given time and may have to wait
a few *months* to get a copy (each patron is allowed 3 wks to use a title
*if* others are waiting for it; considerably longer if no one is waiting).

As a result, the title never appears on the shelves -- at *any* branch
library -- until it\'s popularity has faded.

Pet hate: not being able to buy those epubs at the physical library
that gave me an hour of pleasure looking around the aisles for new
books. It is stupid of them.

The libraries, here, are entirely funded from tax revenues.  So, there
is no
charge for a patron to \"become a member\" *or* borrow items.  Even the
nominal fines for overdue items have been waived (to ensure folks don\'t
avoid the library for financial reasons).

Oops! Translation issue. My fault.

\"Librería\" in Spanish, is a book shop, not a \"Library\" (Biblioteca).

...

My most recent purchases:
    _Ologies and Isms_
    _Mouth Sounds_
    _Your Brain on Art_
    _Mechanisms for Reliable Distributed Real-Time Operating Systems_
    _Webster\'s Compact Rhyming Dictionary_

     Man-Kzin Wars XIV
      Cibola Burn By: James S. A. Corey
     Road Rage By: Ruth Rendell
     Simisola By: Ruth Rendell
     Sad Cypress (Poirot) By: Agatha Christie
     The Secret Adversary & And Then There We... By: Agatha Christie
     Ender\'s Game By: Orson Scott Card
     Last Seen Wearing By: Colin Dexter
     Abaddon\'s Gate By: James S. A. Corey
     Caliban\'s War De: James S. A. Corey
     Sidi, de Arturo Pérez-Reverte

Fiction?

Yep.

Non fiction:

We almost lost Detroit (John G. Fuller).

Note that there were several (a dozen?) \"sequels\" to _Ender_.  And, the
seminal short story that preceded it.

I only read that book, and I was shocked. I have another one noted for
purchasing next, when I feel in the mood.

Most recently, I\'ve been going through Stross\'s writings (Laundry Files,
Merchant Princes, Halting State, etc.).  Entertaining and prescient, IMO.

Before that, Neal Stephenson, Gene Wolfe, etc.

I like people that have written a lot -- so there\'s a lot to read!

(***REALLY*** enjoyed Adams\' work -- but he wrote too few titles and then
went and *died*!  :< )

I likely wouldn\'t KNOW of these titles if my book shopping occurred
in brick-and-mortar bookstores!  OTOH, if I stumble on a reference
to a title while doing research, then I can open another window in
a browser and buy a copy - without having to remember to keep an
eye open for it \"in my travels\".

Kobo is stupid.

When I open their site, they geolocalize me and offer me books in
Spanish, despite me only buying from them books in English and having
configured my preferences to English.

(Books in Spanish I buy from another provider, local).

We have lots of places, on-line, to purchase titles.  Many of my
\"technical\" titles are no longer in print so I have to scour the used
books vendors (and chuckle at how much more than the original retail
price I end up paying!).

I no longer buy paper books.

One reason, I have no room for them.
Another, getting paper books in English is way harder for me than you.
Mostly I can not obtain what I want, but what is available here. Once Ii
had a book shipped to me from NY: price of book, 1 dollar. Sending
expenses, 5 or 6.

So, switched to epubs. No limitation in the tittles I want, no shipping
costs, no storage problems.

I do like paper, but I decided to switch.

[I don\'t read \"novels\" until the author has written EVERY title in
a particular \"series\"/collection;

LOL

I find it distressing to finish ~500pp and then have to wait a year
for the1 *next* chunk of 500pp.  And, yet another after that!

So, I\'ve learned to look for clues in the front matter of each title:
\"Other books by ______:\".  For serieses, the titles in the series
will often be grouped in consecutive order.  The last title in such
a list gives a hint as to whether or not the title in your hand
represents the end of the story arc!

Well, I usually go for older authors.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/6/2023 4:18 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Given that the \"right\" tool is available (a DBMS), it\'s silly not
to use it just because you\'ve not yet *learned* how to use it.

I can\'t access my database from the phone. I might, but not when shopping and
out of reach of my LAN. Yes, I could do it, but too much effort for my
laziness. And accessing it from my phone is a need for me.

You print a list (from the DBMS) for use in the phone. But, in reifying it,
that way, you have decided how you want it organized and can\'t change that
organization unless you create a new \"report\".

My eReaders have only a couple of options as to how they will present
the titles they contain. So, I am limited to accessing their content
by the ways that the folks who designed that structure have cast in
concrete.

OTOH, I can do full text searches in my DBMS and have *it* spit out
a title and \"name of eReader that has the title\".

Was learning how to use an electronic spreadsheet THAT traumatic as to
turn you off on learning other design paradigms?

Well, as I don\'t use Windows I can\'t have M$ Access, and LO Base is not that
good.

I use PostgreSQL and pgadmin for a GUI.  I\'ve not settled on a GUI for
access from windows clients; they all seem to have different bug sets.

I liked \"Rekall\". Easy to use. Defunct.

I started with Paradox decades ago.

Our local branch libraries accept donated texts and resell them (typ $1/each)
to raise money for odds-and-ends that the library can\'t easily purchase
through normal channels (e.g., if they want a folding table on which to display
sale items)

We have many \"second hand\" (\"thrift\") stores that also will take them as
donations with similar resale pricing.

I don\'t know any in my part of the world.

They are reasonably common, here. Many people use them in lieu of
\"the trash\" when discarding items they don\'t want. The store
adds some labor to clean up the items and give them second lives.

The stores are like permanent \"yard sales\" where you can always find
\"odd things\" that may or may not have value to you (but, can\'t *rely*
on finding anything in particular!). We purchased an identical
\"juicer\" to the one that we had been gifted as we were in fear of the
original unit failing (and we use it and rely on it HEAVILY).

Pet hate: not being able to buy those epubs at the physical library that
gave me an hour of pleasure looking around the aisles for new books. It is
stupid of them.

The libraries, here, are entirely funded from tax revenues.  So, there is no
charge for a patron to \"become a member\" *or* borrow items.  Even the
nominal fines for overdue items have been waived (to ensure folks don\'t
avoid the library for financial reasons).

Oops! Translation issue. My fault.

\"Librería\" in Spanish, is a book shop, not a \"Library\" (Biblioteca).

Ah.

There are two types of (brick-and-mortar) bookshops, here.
The \"mainstream\" shops typically deal with current titles.
They may have a large assortment of magazines, etc. But,
are largely all *current* -- you won\'t find an issue from
a magazine from 3 months ago!

Some books may linger on the shelves for a long time, if
they have \"persistent appeal\" or are \"timeless\" in some
other sense. E.g., you might be able to find _The Joy of
Sex_ in such a store despite it\'s age (though you may
discover it\'s an Nth printing of that title).

(Very) technical books won\'t be present; instead, you\'ll
find the \"sold by the pound\" sorts of books that seem to
be forever rolling through: How to Code in Erlang, How
to Code in Python, How to Code in Java, How to Code in C++,
How to Code in C, How to Code in BASIC, etc. -- moving
farther and farther back in time.

Exceptions (at the more up-scale stores) being some of the
classics (e.g., Knuth, Stevens, etc.).

[Of course, there are likely other \"technical\" books in other
fields but not the sorts of things I\'d be \"up\" on.]

*Used* bookstores, OTOH, will usually have a much different
collection of titles. And, often of lower \"demand\" (how many
people do you think are looking for a copy of the Rhyming
Dictionary that I referenced).

Often, they acquire their \"stock\" from discards, estates,
trade-ins, etc. at very low cost -- beyond shelf space.

And, many (now) have an on-line presence to bolster their
sales.

I don\'t know of any that sell digital titles (though many will
sell ORIGINAL digital *media* like CDs/DVDs/etc).

Note that there were several (a dozen?) \"sequels\" to _Ender_.  And, the
seminal short story that preceded it.

I only read that book, and I was shocked. I have another one noted for
purchasing next, when I feel in the mood.

There was a movie made of the first. As I recall, it was pretty
good and true to the story.

There was a period where I actively sought out \"books from which
movies had been made\" (and NOT \"movies from which books had been made\";
there is a HUGE difference!). I would read the title and then watch
the film to see how the filmmaker had interpreted the title.

_The War of the Worlds_ (1950-ish film) is hugely different from
HGWells\' title (though the remake of that film is considerably
closer to the original). It\'s interesting to opine on the
reasons for changes in presentation/interpretation; were they
technical (\"we can\'t create visuals to depict these scenes with
our current technology\"), political (\"we want to make a statement
with our version\"), etc.

Most recently, I\'ve been going through Stross\'s writings (Laundry Files,
Merchant Princes, Halting State, etc.).  Entertaining and prescient, IMO.

Before that, Neal Stephenson, Gene Wolfe, etc.

I like people that have written a lot -- so there\'s a lot to read!

I tend to read everything written by an author, as a matter of principle.
So, I want to have a fair amount to \"consume\". AND, want to enjoy
everything that I\'ll invest in reading.

I\'ve broken this rule exactly twice:
- I simply could not get through _The Silmarillion_
- I got tired of CSLewis\' thinly veiled preachiness (did not
realize he was a wackjob when I picked up the first title;
I just noted how MANY titles he had written and used that
as a \"selection quality\")

When I open their site, they geolocalize me and offer me books in Spanish,
despite me only buying from them books in English and having configured my
preferences to English.

(Books in Spanish I buy from another provider, local).

We have lots of places, on-line, to purchase titles.  Many of my
\"technical\" titles are no longer in print so I have to scour the used
books vendors (and chuckle at how much more than the original retail
price I end up paying!).

I no longer buy paper books.

I no longer buy paper *novels* -- for the reason you cite below.
I can read a paper copy of a title from the local library and
then opt for the epub to add to my collection (so I know that
I\'ve read it AND can reread it when I so desire -- yes, I enjoy
rereading books, rewatching films, etc. \"I *know* that I
liked it so why not?\")

Technical books, however, are usually not available in electronic
form. And, often contain non-textual elements that don\'t suit the
electronic format as readily as a novel (which usually don\'t have
illustrations, charts, graphs, etc.).

OTOH, I\'ve been scanning my technical books, recently, in an attempt to
\"get rid of the paper\". This leaves me with PDFs that preserve the
page images -- but limit the eReaders that I can use to view them!

 One reason, I have no room for them.
 Another, getting paper books in English is way harder for me than you. Mostly
I can not obtain what I want, but what is available here. Once Ii had a book
shipped to me from NY: price of book, 1 dollar. Sending expenses, 5 or 6.

Mail delivery of books, here, is subsidized. It will cost more to
ship a flimsy garment than a heavy book. Our \"book rate\" -- now called
\"media rate\" as it also addresses all forms of electronic media (I once
shipped 50 pounds of disk drives using that discounted means -- but
couldn\'t include anything OTHER than the disks in the package!) -- is
considerably cheaper than regular shipping rates.

[If you are blind, I believe there is no cost]

So, switched to epubs. No limitation in the tittles I want, no shipping costs,
no storage problems.

I do like paper, but I decided to switch.

A book *feels* good in your hands. I prefer the smaller Nooks (Nook Color,
etc.) for novels because the form factor and \"heft\" more closely approximates
that of a \"paperback\".

SWMBO uses a larger Nook (HD+?) as she relies on a larger typeface to
read without glasses.

[I don\'t read \"novels\" until the author has written EVERY title in
a particular \"series\"/collection;

LOL

I find it distressing to finish ~500pp and then have to wait a year
for the1 *next* chunk of 500pp.  And, yet another after that!

So, I\'ve learned to look for clues in the front matter of each title:
\"Other books by ______:\".  For serieses, the titles in the series
will often be grouped in consecutive order.  The last title in such
a list gives a hint as to whether or not the title in your hand
represents the end of the story arc!

Well, I usually go for older authors.

An author can be \"old\" yet still producing.

The fear of \"old\" authors is that they can die before finishing their
work(s) (Tolkien, Adams, etc.). My experience with others completing
these \"partial works\" posthumously has been disappointing. (I wonder
if an AI could be more true to the original author\'s \"style\" and
imagination?)

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-07 07:59, Don Y wrote:

On 4/6/2023 4:18 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Given that the \"right\" tool is available (a DBMS), it\'s silly not
to use it just because you\'ve not yet *learned* how to use it.

I can\'t access my database from the phone. I might, but not when
shopping and out of reach of my LAN. Yes, I could do it, but too much
effort for my laziness. And accessing it from my phone is a need for me.

You print a list (from the DBMS) for use in the phone.  But, in reifying
it,
that way, you have decided how you want it organized and can\'t change that
organization unless you create a new \"report\".

Nope.

I export to spreadsheet \"somehow\" and use that in the phone.

My eReaders have only a couple of options as to how they will present
the titles they contain.  So, I am limited to accessing their content
by the ways that the folks who designed that structure have cast in
concrete.

Of course.

OTOH, I can do full text searches in my DBMS and have *it* spit out
a title and \"name of eReader that has the title\".

Was learning how to use an electronic spreadsheet THAT traumatic as to
turn you off on learning other design paradigms?

Well, as I don\'t use Windows I can\'t have M$ Access, and LO Base is
not that good.

I use PostgreSQL and pgadmin for a GUI.  I\'ve not settled on a GUI for
access from windows clients; they all seem to have different bug sets.

I liked \"Rekall\". Easy to use. Defunct.

I started with Paradox decades ago.

Our local branch libraries accept donated texts and resell them (typ
$1/each)
to raise money for odds-and-ends that the library can\'t easily purchase
through normal channels (e.g., if they want a folding table on which
to display
sale items)

We have many \"second hand\" (\"thrift\") stores that also will take them as
donations with similar resale pricing.

I don\'t know any in my part of the world.

They are reasonably common, here.  Many people use them in lieu of
\"the trash\" when discarding items they don\'t want.  The store
adds some labor to clean up the items and give them second lives.

The stores are like permanent \"yard sales\" where you can always find
\"odd things\" that may or may not have value to you (but, can\'t *rely*
on finding anything in particular!).  We purchased an identical
\"juicer\" to the one that we had been gifted as we were in fear of the
original unit failing (and we use it and rely on it HEAVILY).

Yes, seems a nice thing to have. But we don\'t.

We had \"second hand stores\". Once I took there the snow chains of my
previous car. I had to join a queue for half an hour, fill some papers
ensuring that I owned the thing and was not stolen, and then was given
50 cents. Price of the kilo of iron or something.

Next time it goes to the garbage can. Not worth the chore.

Pet hate: not being able to buy those epubs at the physical library
that gave me an hour of pleasure looking around the aisles for new
books. It is stupid of them.

The libraries, here, are entirely funded from tax revenues.  So,
there is no
charge for a patron to \"become a member\" *or* borrow items.  Even the
nominal fines for overdue items have been waived (to ensure folks don\'t
avoid the library for financial reasons).

Oops! Translation issue. My fault.

\"Librería\" in Spanish, is a book shop, not a \"Library\" (Biblioteca).

Ah.

There are two types of (brick-and-mortar) bookshops, here.
The \"mainstream\" shops typically deal with current titles.
They may have a large assortment of magazines, etc.  But,
are largely all *current* -- you won\'t find an issue from
a magazine from 3 months ago!

Of course.

Some books may linger on the shelves for a long time, if
they have \"persistent appeal\" or are \"timeless\" in some
other sense.  E.g., you might be able to find _The Joy of
Sex_ in such a store despite it\'s age (though you may
discover it\'s an Nth printing of that title).

(Very) technical books won\'t be present; instead, you\'ll
find the \"sold by the pound\" sorts of books that seem to
be forever rolling through:  How to Code in Erlang, How
to Code in Python, How to Code in Java, How to Code in C++,
How to Code in C, How to Code in BASIC, etc. -- moving
farther and farther back in time.

Exceptions (at the more up-scale stores) being some of the
classics (e.g., Knuth, Stevens, etc.).

[Of course, there are likely other \"technical\" books in other
fields but not the sorts of things I\'d be \"up\" on.]

*Used* bookstores, OTOH, will usually have a much different
collection of titles.  And, often of lower \"demand\" (how many
people do you think are looking for a copy of the Rhyming
Dictionary that I referenced).

Often, they acquire their \"stock\" from discards, estates,
trade-ins, etc. at very low cost -- beyond shelf space.

And, many (now) have an on-line presence to bolster their
sales.

I don\'t know of any that sell digital titles (though many will
sell ORIGINAL digital *media* like CDs/DVDs/etc).

Note that there were several (a dozen?) \"sequels\" to _Ender_.  And,
the seminal short story that preceded it.

I only read that book, and I was shocked. I have another one noted for
purchasing next, when I feel in the mood.

There was a movie made of the first.  As I recall, it was pretty
good and true to the story.

I saw it. I don\'t remember the shock with it that I experienced with the
book.

There was a period where I actively sought out \"books from which
movies had been made\" (and NOT \"movies from which books had been made\";
there is a HUGE difference!).  I would read the title and then watch
the film to see how the filmmaker had interpreted the title.

Hum.

_The War of the Worlds_ (1950-ish film) is hugely different from
HGWells\' title (though the remake of that film is considerably
closer to the original).  It\'s interesting to opine on the
reasons for changes in presentation/interpretation; were they
technical (\"we can\'t create visuals to depict these scenes with
our current technology\"), political (\"we want to make a statement
with our version\"), etc.

Most recently, I\'ve been going through Stross\'s writings (Laundry Files,
Merchant Princes, Halting State, etc.).  Entertaining and prescient,
IMO.

Before that, Neal Stephenson, Gene Wolfe, etc.

I like people that have written a lot -- so there\'s a lot to read!



I tend to read everything written by an author, as a matter of principle.
So, I want to have a fair amount to \"consume\".  AND, want to enjoy
everything that I\'ll invest in reading.

I\'ve broken this rule exactly twice:
- I simply could not get through _The Silmarillion_

I did.

- I got tired of CSLewis\' thinly veiled preachiness (did not
  realize he was a wackjob when I picked up the first title;
  I just noted how MANY titles he had written and used that
  as a \"selection quality\")

I haven\'t read him.

When I open their site, they geolocalize me and offer me books in
Spanish, despite me only buying from them books in English and
having configured my preferences to English.

(Books in Spanish I buy from another provider, local).

We have lots of places, on-line, to purchase titles.  Many of my
\"technical\" titles are no longer in print so I have to scour the used
books vendors (and chuckle at how much more than the original retail
price I end up paying!).

I no longer buy paper books.

I no longer buy paper *novels* -- for the reason you cite below.
I can read a paper copy of a title from the local library and
then opt for the epub to add to my collection (so I know that
I\'ve read it AND can reread it when I so desire -- yes, I enjoy
rereading books, rewatching films, etc.  \"I *know* that I
liked it so why not?\")

Technical books, however, are usually not available in electronic
form.  And, often contain non-textual elements that don\'t suit the
electronic format as readily as a novel (which usually don\'t have
illustrations, charts, graphs, etc.).

OTOH, I\'ve been scanning my technical books, recently, in an attempt to
\"get rid of the paper\".  This leaves me with PDFs that preserve the
page images -- but limit the eReaders that I can use to view them!

  One reason, I have no room for them.
  Another, getting paper books in English is way harder for me than
you. Mostly I can not obtain what I want, but what is available here.
Once Ii had a book shipped to me from NY: price of book, 1 dollar.
Sending expenses, 5 or 6.

Mail delivery of books, here, is subsidized.  It will cost more to
ship a flimsy garment than a heavy book.  Our \"book rate\" -- now called
\"media rate\" as it also addresses all forms of electronic media (I once
shipped 50 pounds of disk drives using that discounted means -- but
couldn\'t include anything OTHER than the disks in the package!) -- is
considerably cheaper than regular shipping rates.

[If you are blind, I believe there is no cost]

So, switched to epubs. No limitation in the tittles I want, no
shipping costs, no storage problems.

I do like paper, but I decided to switch.

A book *feels* good in your hands.  I prefer the smaller Nooks (Nook Color,
etc.) for novels because the form factor and \"heft\" more closely
approximates
that of a \"paperback\".

SWMBO uses a larger Nook (HD+?) as she relies on a larger typeface to
read without glasses.

[I don\'t read \"novels\" until the author has written EVERY title in
a particular \"series\"/collection;

LOL

I find it distressing to finish ~500pp and then have to wait a year
for the1 *next* chunk of 500pp.  And, yet another after that!

So, I\'ve learned to look for clues in the front matter of each title:
\"Other books by ______:\".  For serieses, the titles in the series
will often be grouped in consecutive order.  The last title in such
a list gives a hint as to whether or not the title in your hand
represents the end of the story arc!

Well, I usually go for older authors.

An author can be \"old\" yet still producing.

The fear of \"old\" authors is that they can die before finishing their
work(s) (Tolkien, Adams, etc.).  My experience with others completing
these \"partial works\" posthumously has been disappointing.  (I wonder
if an AI could be more true to the original author\'s \"style\" and
imagination?)

Possibly.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/7/2023 1:35 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

We have many \"second hand\" (\"thrift\") stores that also will take them as
donations with similar resale pricing.

I don\'t know any in my part of the world.

They are reasonably common, here.  Many people use them in lieu of
\"the trash\" when discarding items they don\'t want.  The store
adds some labor to clean up the items and give them second lives.

The stores are like permanent \"yard sales\" where you can always find
\"odd things\" that may or may not have value to you (but, can\'t *rely*
on finding anything in particular!).  We purchased an identical
\"juicer\" to the one that we had been gifted as we were in fear of the
original unit failing (and we use it and rely on it HEAVILY).

Yes, seems a nice thing to have. But we don\'t.

We had \"second hand stores\". Once I took there the snow chains of my previous
car. I had to join a queue for half an hour, fill some papers ensuring that I
owned the thing and was not stolen, and then was given 50 cents. Price of the
kilo of iron or something.

Next time it goes to the garbage can. Not worth the chore.

Our \"thrift stores\" accept *donations*; you don\'t get paid for your \"gift\".
So, they are used in lieu of the trash. If *they* can\'t use the \"gift\",
then it\'s their problem to dispose of it.

E.g., CRT TVs are difficult to dispose of, here. You can\'t put them in
the normal trash (electronics are considered \"hazardous waste\"). If
you try to bring them to one of the hazardous waste recycling sites, you
will be *charged* (typ $25) to leave one, there.

But, you can drop one off at a thrift store and, if they haven\'t
put in place policies to REFUSE such \"donations\", the TV is now
*their* problem.

Places that pay you for certain recyclables (copper, aluminum, lead,
etc.) have more stringent measures in place. E.g., to combat the
theft of copper pipe from construction sites, rooftop refrigeration
systems, etc. most places that will pay for \"clean copper\" will
require an ID before accepting the items (and paying you based on
their weight)

Note that there were several (a dozen?) \"sequels\" to _Ender_.  And, the
seminal short story that preceded it.

I only read that book, and I was shocked. I have another one noted for
purchasing next, when I feel in the mood.

There was a movie made of the first.  As I recall, it was pretty
good and true to the story.

I saw it. I don\'t remember the shock with it that I experienced with the book.

The movie drew your attention to the visuals; the book to the story.

I tend to read everything written by an author, as a matter of principle.
So, I want to have a fair amount to \"consume\".  AND, want to enjoy
everything that I\'ll invest in reading.

I\'ve broken this rule exactly twice:
- I simply could not get through _The Silmarillion_

I did.

I found it a *huge* letdown from the other tomes. \"Not worth my time\"
I expect novels to \"entertain\".

 

[Peeler]

On 8 Apr 2023 04:04:36 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

The National Forests and Bureau of Land Management lands dwarf the
national parks. Theoretically you can\'t live there but there are a lot of
square miles and not many nosy rangers.

The resident bigmouth is at it again! LMAO

--
More typical idiotic senile gossip by lowbrowwoman:
\"It\'s been years since I\'ve been in a fast food burger joint but I used
to like Wendy\'s because they had a salad bar and baked potatoes.\"
MID: <ivdi4gF8btlU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Paul]

On 4/5/2023 7:09 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Thanks!  It just so happens I just downloaded LTSpice, I\'d not got round to working out how to use it though.  Where do you get the components to insert?  I couldn\'t find the voltage source for example, only buttons for a handful of components.

This shows a voltage source symbol.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/28LzTPQY/component.gif

The .tran statement shows how long the simulation should run,
and stands for \"transient analysis\" or so.

And this isn\'t a real simulation, in the sense that
there\'s no behavioral model of a transformer in there,
to show regulation effects.

*******

And while you\'re simulating, have a look at the Hammond low-power
transformer catalog. The eleventh page has a few equations.

https://www.hammfg.com/files/literature/5c.pdf

On the thirty-fourth page, you\'ll find a toroidal transformer.
One of the downsides of these (apparently), is a fairly nasty
inrush current. If you don\'t tame the inrush current, it could
cause your mains to drop enough, to knock out your computers
in the same room. If you use an AC switch to the toroid, it might
destroy the switch contacts after some number of cycles. I don\'t
know if Hammond has a recommended circuit for the mains side, or not.
The characteristics of laminate transformers might be a bit softer
than that.

They also do high power transformers suited to the power company,
but this too is likely a bit of a miss, for what you intend. So
I don\'t know if they actually carry the kind of transformer you\'re
looking at. I bought a transformer from them, for my computer
speaker amp (drives some leftover bookshelf speakers at a puny power
level).

Some of the toroids, have dual secondary windings. You get four wires
for output, and if you want to \"stack rectifiers without doing LTSpice\",
you can.

Paul

 

[none]

In article <9e9fd571-062f-481d-91ae-0b24f538bdeen@googlegroups.com>,
Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:35:49 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
Putting zeners in parallel is a really terrible idea. Use a single
bigger zener, or a power transistor plus a zener.

They are physically big and also expensive. The 5W zeners are good size
and price.

Putting zeners in series would not run into problems.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--
Don\'t praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn\'t make spring.
You must not say \"hey\" before you have crossed the bridge. Don\'t sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 11:54:47 PM UTC+10, none albert wrote:

In article <9e9fd571-062f-481d...@googlegroups.com>,
Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:35:49 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
Putting zeners in parallel is a really terrible idea. Use a single
bigger zener, or a power transistor plus a zener.

They are physically big and also expensive. The 5W zeners are good size
and price.

Putting zeners in series would not run into problems.

Actually, it could. 12V \"zeners\" are avalanche diode. 6V zeners are half-way between breakdown diodes which rely on the Zener breakdown mechanism and avalanche diodes. The knee isn\'t as sharp , and you have two of the less sharp knees in series.

This might not be a problem, but it could be. Ed Lee isn\'t the world clearest thinker, so we don\'t really know what he is trying to do.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney