UPS: "Do not connect laser printer..."

N

notme

Guest
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

Thanks.
 
notme wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...
Click to expand...
Modified sine is often just full peak on, pause, full negative peak,
pause, and so on. That can mess with PFC circuitry and also stresses
rectifiers at the line input more than a sine. However, RVers and
traveling sales folks do sometimes use modified sine inverters.

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:21:20 -0700, notme <notme@notme.org> wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only? No such caution
re. computers, etc...

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

John
 
news@jecarter.us wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?
Click to expand...
They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8c317f5b-a9e9-4e78-a4be-4b15087dd3bf@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme <no...@notme.org> wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only
Click to expand...
The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?
 
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme <no...@notme.org> wrote:
What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only
Click to expand...
The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

Items like a computer PS, which converts AC to DC before
using the power, aren't picky.
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:19:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

news@jecarter.us wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.
Click to expand...
Nothing much hidden there: 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.

My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.

Geoff.
Click to expand...
 
I wrote:

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

PeterD wrote:
Click to expand...

Nothing much hidden there: 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.
Click to expand...
My point was that the 8 amps was only on the last page of the manual, not
anywhere else, including the web page, sticker on the printer, specs page
at the begining of the manual and so on.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:19:10 -0400, Michael Robinson wrote:

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific). Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?
Click to expand...
There's no reason to use DC, particularly if it means that you need a
1kW PSU instead of 200W.
 
On Jul 19, 1:19 pm, "Michael Robinson" <nos...@billburg.com> wrote:
"whit3rd" <whit...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:8c317f5b-a9e9-4e78-a4be-4b15087dd3bf@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 19, 11:21 am, notme <no...@notme.org> wrote:

What is it about laser printers that causes UPS manufacturers to recommend
they not be powered by a "stepped approximation to sine" UPS? It's a SMSP,
isn't it? What makes it special such that it needs sine-only

The main heater (the one that fuses the toner so it sticks to the
paper) is usually run on a thermostat, using a big SCR (triac, to
be more specific).  Those SCRs can trigger on fast-rising spikes
on the power line, by capacitive coupling from cathode to gate,
so steps in the power-in voltage are contraindicated.

So a heater of that sort takes its power directly from the line?
Click to expand...
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:19:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

news@jecarter.us wrote:

Possibly because some laser printers have 1000 watt fusing elements
and most home UPS units can't provide that much power?

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.
Click to expand...
Only 8 amps? HP is usually fairly good about supplying power
consumption specs. For example, for the HP LJ 3200 all in one, see:
<http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpl08239&locale=en_US&taskId=101&prodSeriesId=24354&prodTypeId=18972#A8>
Inrush Current: (Duration: significantly < 1 second)
Model A (120V): 23 A peak (20 deg C, from cold start)
Model AB (240V): 40 A peak (20 deg C, from cold start)

With a 23A inrush current, the UPS is gonna go into shutdown, blow a
fuse, or somehow complain. (I haven't tried it).

What I find amusing is that in order to get an Energy Start rating,
the printer must reduce average consumption to below 50% of normal
power consumption. This is usually done with a power save shut down
and an "instant on" feature. However, to get reasonable startup time,
the initial inrush current is really high.

My current small Samsung printer never actually says what it draws, but the
web page and manual made a big point about it drawing 6 watts in standby. Since
we print around 5 times a week, the standby current matters more than the
max draw, but I would not want to plug it into a UPS.
Click to expand...
My clamp-on amps guesser has a peak hold function. I'll try it out on
some of my LaserJet printers in the office and see what it shows.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in
<slrnh68k2q.g9j.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?

Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.
Click to expand...
Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:39:05 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

I wrote:

They go out of their way to hide it. A friend of mine moved here with a 120
volt industrial strength HP laser printer. The specs said 325 watts, the
current draw was listed as 8 amps max on the last page of the manual.

PeterD wrote:

Nothing much hidden there: 8 Amps, 120 volts, 960 watts. That's damned
close to a thousand watts, IMHO.

My point was that the 8 amps was only on the last page of the manual, not
anywhere else, including the web page, sticker on the printer, specs page
at the begining of the manual and so on.

Geoff.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see your point.
 
Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Click to expand...
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up. They run off of low power DC.
The power supply in the printer (or external on most of my inkjets) very happily
converts the output of a UPS to the DC that it needs.

The difference with laser printers is that the toner only sticks to the paper
as long as there is an electrical charge. To keep it falling off of the paper
after a few minutes, it has to be melted onto the paper.

The technical term used is "fused" and the part of the printer is called
a "fuser". They could of as easily called it "ironing" and an "iron", (as in
an iron-on T shirt pattern) but that would have been too simple and
not sound important enough. :)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
<invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
Click to expand...
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.
 
Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.

chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.
Click to expand...

What did I win? Can one drink it?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
<invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.

chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.


What did I win? Can one drink it?
Click to expand...
How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?
 
Meat Plow wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:11:37 -0700, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid>wrote:

What really wreaks havoc is a printer that has a powerful fuser which
draws short but huge bursts of current. That can cause the inverter
inside the UPS to choke.
chaCHING! Collect your prize at the door.

What did I win? Can one drink it?

How about a bottle of Macallan 1926 single malt?
Click to expand...

Nice! But a 1978 Montrachet or a nice bottle of Chateau d'Yquem would
also do :)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in
slrnh68k2q.g9j.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.
Click to expand...
I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.
 
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:03:18 -0700) it happened Torn Lawence
<ohmeup@lights.com> wrote in
<Cd6dnXNqQIV7I_nXnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@posted.toastnet>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:14:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Geoffrey
S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in
slrnh68k2q.g9j.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>:

Greegor wrote:
Do inkjet printers handle the simily waveform well?
Inkjet printers use very low power stepper motors to move the head and paper,
and very tiny heaters to make the ink bubble up.

Epson inkjets do not use heat at all, but piezo elements to push the ink out.
Better, allows more more types if ink, and is faster, and allows for better control
of the droplets.
Yes I have couple of Epsons:)
But their service sucks as it is non-existing.

I had an Epson. Replacement ink cartridges were cheaper than other
brands too, because the piezos were permanent parts of the printer and
not built into the cartridges. I didn't use it often enough, and when
the nozzles clogged up, the printer's life was over.
Click to expand...
Yes, those cartridges are expensive, but I have been using this system for some years:
https://www.continuousink.com/home.html
mainly to print to DVDs.
Now printing costs very little, and the printheads are still the original ones.
The way that system works is by using special cartridges that suck ink via silicone
tubes from big external ink tanks.
About 20x cheaper then the normal Epson ink.
It takes care of the counter chips too.
If the heads are clogged it is now less costly to run the cleaning program a few times too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top