Unsolderable wire?

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:45:27 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
Gave us:

"Kennedy = Kunt "


FOAD - you stinking autistic MORON

You must be Japanese...

Phil Allison == Assholeson Phil

Hardly had to change a thing.

 

[JW]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:50:08 +1100 "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote in Message id: <bk4grcFu5i0U1@mid.individual.net>:

"Kennedy = Kunt"


FOAD - you stinking, pig ignorant, autistic MORON

Do you kiss your mother's quim with that mouth?

 

[dave]

On 01/19/2014 10:48 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 1/19/2014 2:30 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Bob E." wrote:

When it comes to broadcast TV I try to solder every connection possible.
Every crimp is one more dB lost.

I'm no RF expert, just my impression--possibly mistaken.


The loss should be under .1 dB for a good F connector,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jumbo shrimp alert.


There are good ones, but you won't buy them at retail stores.

Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

 

[dave]

On 01/19/2014 10:53 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Bob E." wrote:

100% of the RF connectors I use for mountain top radio sites that I
deal with are crimped, not soldered.

This is where the original short length of RG6 was soldered to the pcb
antenna. It's an inexpensive broadcast TV antenna for home.

Rather than make a male crimp plus a barrel to join the 2 mailes, just solder
the long run directly to the pcb. Or so I thought...

I crimped 1/2" of center solid conductor to the braid and soldered the solid
to the pcb. It seems to work but I have no way to measure any loss. I plan to
replace this when I find some REAL copper RG6.


The loss is horrible in copper braided coax at TV frequencies. The
cost is excessive, as well. 'Headend cable' used to be silver plated
copper braided coax, but that was abandoned for foil & drain when
headends passed 216 MHz. That silver plated coax was over a dollar a
foot, in the '70s.

The easiest way to spot good headend cable was to try to bend it. It
drapes, like mic cable; not stiff.

My ham radio antennas are all 50 Ohm designs, but I do cheat on the
receive loops and repurpose old Echostar cable around the house.

 

[dave]

On 01/20/2014 02:18 AM, Tim Williams wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bk38f3Fme1fU1@mid.individual.net...
Electroplated wire, most likely nickel.

** But nickel plated stuff solders beautifully.

Jack plugs and sockets, DC plugs etc.

I have some mil spec, high-temp wire that's nickel plated. Beautiful
stuff, strands wound in layers. It takes an unusually high temperature
and a long time before the solder wets and soaks into it. It does tin,
but I wouldn't say it solders "beautifully", not with ordinary fluxes.

Tim

I have a Hakko station with 50 Watts max power. I also have a Weller
150W gun. And an old Radio-Shack Ungar 45 W for the occasional
emergency. There are situations where The Weller gun comes in handy,
when the other 2 don't get hot enough. Failing all 3, we have the trusty
Bernz-O-Matic.

 

[dave]

On 01/20/2014 03:45 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Kennedy = Kunt"


FOAD - you stinking autistic MORON

There are 2 of us? And only one of you? Pretty brave man calling people
names from across cyberspace. You kiss your mama with that mouth?

 

[Syd Rumpo]

On 20/01/2014 10:18, Tim Williams wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bk38f3Fme1fU1@mid.individual.net...
Electroplated wire, most likely nickel.

** But nickel plated stuff solders beautifully.

Jack plugs and sockets, DC plugs etc.

I have some mil spec, high-temp wire that's nickel plated. Beautiful
stuff, strands wound in layers. It takes an unusually high temperature
and a long time before the solder wets and soaks into it. It does tin,
but I wouldn't say it solders "beautifully", not with ordinary fluxes.

Tim

I have some Nickel plated copper wire - single core - which I bought
believing it to be tinned copper. It doesn't wet well with my ancient
'non corrosive flux' Multicore 60/40.

A touch of flux and it solders beautifully.

Cheers
--
Syd

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 01/20/2014 08:46 AM, dave wrote:

On 01/19/2014 10:48 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 1/19/2014 2:30 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Bob E." wrote:

When it comes to broadcast TV I try to solder every connection
possible.
Every crimp is one more dB lost.

I'm no RF expert, just my impression--possibly mistaken.


The loss should be under .1 dB for a good F connector,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jumbo shrimp alert.


There are good ones, but you won't buy them at retail stores.



Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:10:46 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 08:46 AM, dave wrote:
Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with F-connectors? There are zillions
installed on indoor and outdoor CATV installations with no failures or
issues. Certainly there are connectors with better specifications,
but for the intended purpose and cost ($0.30/ea), F-connectors are
more than adequate. The only real problem I've found is the wide
variety of cables claiming to be RG-6/u. Making a connector that will
fit all these RG-6/u mutations is tricky, but T&B has done a decent
job with their "red" SNS1P6U Snap-N-Seal connectors:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/221344116756>

So, what's wrong with F-connectors and what would you recommend the
CATV industry use instead?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.

That's your choice. I can't help that you are absolutely clueless
about the technology. There are millions of miles of Rg/6 with F
fittings used into the UHF range outdoors with a very low failure rate,
and lower leakage than some BNC connectors. If they were crap, they
wouldn't be allowed to use aircraft and commercial two way frequencies.
A couple bad connections in a cable system can shut down an airport, or
the local fire and PD.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

dave wrote:

The easiest way to spot good headend cable was to try to bend it. It
drapes, like mic cable; not stiff.

The easiest way was to look at the imprint: 'Belden headend cable'.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Kennedy wrote:

On 20/01/2014 7:38 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Williams - Wanker & TROLL"



Was I the only one to see this predictable response coming & get a
giggle out of it?

Phil always advertises that he's a troll.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Kennedy wrote:

On 20/01/2014 7:45 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Kennedy = Kunt"


FOAD - you stinking autistic MORON


Settle down Phil, one day you're going to blow a gasket!

Why put it off? Who would mourn?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 01/20/2014 12:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:10:46 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 08:46 AM, dave wrote:
Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with F-connectors? There are zillions
installed on indoor and outdoor CATV installations with no failures or
issues. Certainly there are connectors with better specifications,
but for the intended purpose and cost ($0.30/ea), F-connectors are
more than adequate. The only real problem I've found is the wide
variety of cables claiming to be RG-6/u. Making a connector that will
fit all these RG-6/u mutations is tricky, but T&B has done a decent
job with their "red" SNS1P6U Snap-N-Seal connectors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221344116756

So, what's wrong with F-connectors and what would you recommend the
CATV industry use instead?

If the CATV industry likes them, well, I'm happy they're happy.
Instrument use is quite a different regime. F connectors use the centre
conductor of the coax as the contact, and are very susceptible to damage
with repeated mating cycles. The ones I've seen are also fairly far
from constant-impedance.

BNCs and SMAs for me.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Tim Williams]

"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message
news:ap5qd95f2cprv181vtan18uieifd9g55ob@4ax.com...

"Tim Williams - Wanker & TROLL"


Was I the only one to see this predictable response coming & get a
giggle out of it?

T. W. == W & T


Naaaaahhh!!!

He has smarts.

Smarts? I'll have you know I've been called worse!

Tim (only an asshole on the internet)

--
Seven Transistor Labs
Electrical Engineering Consultation
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:13:00 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 12:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:10:46 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 08:46 AM, dave wrote:
Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with F-connectors? There are zillions
installed on indoor and outdoor CATV installations with no failures or
issues. Certainly there are connectors with better specifications,
but for the intended purpose and cost ($0.30/ea), F-connectors are
more than adequate. The only real problem I've found is the wide
variety of cables claiming to be RG-6/u. Making a connector that will
fit all these RG-6/u mutations is tricky, but T&B has done a decent
job with their "red" SNS1P6U Snap-N-Seal connectors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221344116756

So, what's wrong with F-connectors and what would you recommend the
CATV industry use instead?

If the CATV industry likes them, well, I'm happy they're happy.

The CATV industry is never happy. If it were happy, innovation would
cease and the status quo would become permanent.

Instrument use is quite a different regime. F connectors use the centre
conductor of the coax as the contact, and are very susceptible to damage
with repeated mating cycles. The ones I've seen are also fairly far
from constant-impedance.

I believe that I mumbled something about "for the intended purpose". I
don't think anyone uses F-connectors for precision test equipment.
They're not really good enough. Looking at the pile, most of my CATV
specific test equipment uses BNC connectors. However, that's not
because the F-connector is in some way electrically inferior. It's
because the F-connector receptacles were not designed to survive
repeated insertion/removal cycles. The few that have built in
F-connectors allow for easy replacement, such as my Wavetek SAM-1000
which uses a panel mounted F barrel adapter.

The F-connector is certainly not constant impedance. On a TDR, the
bump is rather obvious. Yet, some cable and connector combinations
are rated and tested to 4.5GHz:
<http://www.tselectronic.com/shop/product/1694A-Belden-4.5GHz-RG6-U-Precision-Video-Cable-for-Analog-and-Digital-Applications/1026>
The recommended connectors are T&B SNS1P6 or FSNS6U compression
F-connectors.

I partly agree with you about center conductor problems. I assume
that you're referring to the copper plated steel center conductor,
found in most cheap RG-6/u cables, which is not intended for repeated
insertion/extraction cycles. Still, the rating is 500
insertion/extraction cycles minimum. The copper will eventually
scrape off. However, solid copper center conductor RG-6/u (such as
Belden 1694A) works quite nicely, without any damage. I couldn't find
a spec for insertion/extraction cycles for 1694A.

>BNCs and SMAs for me.

Crimp or compression plugs, in quantities of 100 on eBay:
F-connector $0.30/ea
SMA male $0.70/ea
BNC male $1.00/ea
For test equipment, the price difference is not enough to justify
using the cheapest. For CATV, which consumes connectors by the
millions, every penny counts.

Thanks.

Cheers
Phil Hobbs

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:42:19 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

> The easiest way was to look at the imprint: 'Belden headend cable'.

Which end is the head? (Sorry, I couldn't resist).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 1/20/2014 6:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:13:00 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 12:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:10:46 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 01/20/2014 08:46 AM, dave wrote:
Use Snap-N-Seal type F-connectors. They are moisture proof and
positively crimp correctly.

I don't have TV at home, and there's no way I'd use F connectors for
anything but entertainment.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with F-connectors? There are zillions
installed on indoor and outdoor CATV installations with no failures or
issues. Certainly there are connectors with better specifications,
but for the intended purpose and cost ($0.30/ea), F-connectors are
more than adequate. The only real problem I've found is the wide
variety of cables claiming to be RG-6/u. Making a connector that will
fit all these RG-6/u mutations is tricky, but T&B has done a decent
job with their "red" SNS1P6U Snap-N-Seal connectors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221344116756

So, what's wrong with F-connectors and what would you recommend the
CATV industry use instead?

If the CATV industry likes them, well, I'm happy they're happy.

The CATV industry is never happy. If it were happy, innovation would
cease and the status quo would become permanent.

Instrument use is quite a different regime. F connectors use the centre
conductor of the coax as the contact, and are very susceptible to damage
with repeated mating cycles. The ones I've seen are also fairly far
from constant-impedance.

I believe that I mumbled something about "for the intended purpose". I
don't think anyone uses F-connectors for precision test equipment.
They're not really good enough. Looking at the pile, most of my CATV
specific test equipment uses BNC connectors. However, that's not
because the F-connector is in some way electrically inferior. It's
because the F-connector receptacles were not designed to survive
repeated insertion/removal cycles. The few that have built in
F-connectors allow for easy replacement, such as my Wavetek SAM-1000
which uses a panel mounted F barrel adapter.

The F-connector is certainly not constant impedance. On a TDR, the
bump is rather obvious. Yet, some cable and connector combinations
are rated and tested to 4.5GHz:
http://www.tselectronic.com/shop/product/1694A-Belden-4.5GHz-RG6-U-Precision-Video-Cable-for-Analog-and-Digital-Applications/1026
The recommended connectors are T&B SNS1P6 or FSNS6U compression
F-connectors.

I partly agree with you about center conductor problems. I assume
that you're referring to the copper plated steel center conductor,
found in most cheap RG-6/u cables, which is not intended for repeated
insertion/extraction cycles. Still, the rating is 500
insertion/extraction cycles minimum. The copper will eventually
scrape off. However, solid copper center conductor RG-6/u (such as
Belden 1694A) works quite nicely, without any damage. I couldn't find
a spec for insertion/extraction cycles for 1694A.

BNCs and SMAs for me.

Crimp or compression plugs, in quantities of 100 on eBay:
F-connector $0.30/ea
SMA male $0.70/ea
BNC male $1.00/ea
For test equipment, the price difference is not enough to justify
using the cheapest. For CATV, which consumes connectors by the
millions, every penny counts.

Thanks.

Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Sure, horses for courses. I'm not telling them how to run their lives,
because I couldn't care less about their lives. (Well, as
individuals, sure, but as for the industry, if CATV went away completely
tomorrow, it would suit me fine--provided only that they took their
tarts and talking heads with them.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:55:56 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Sure, horses for courses. I'm not telling them how to run their lives,
because I couldn't care less about their lives. (Well, as
individuals, sure, but as for the industry, if CATV went away completely
tomorrow, it would suit me fine--provided only that they took their
tarts and talking heads with them.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

I assure you that the selection of RF connector will have no effect on
CATV content quality. I like the tarts, but can do without the
talking heads.

For what little it's worth, I didn't own a TV for about 15 years.
Except for being somewhat culturally deprived, I didn't miss TV in the
slightest. However, I then picked up a contract to review some
technical videos and needed a TV and VCR to play them. I soon found
myself watching broadcast TV, buying DVD's, putting together a media
center, subscribing to DirecTV, Netflix, etc. Today, I find that I
can't sleep without the TV running. I'm now watching a 1931 Boris
Karloff movie as I type. I'm addicted.

Hint: Don't judge connectors by the content they carry.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 1/20/2014 8:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:55:56 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Sure, horses for courses. I'm not telling them how to run their lives,
because I couldn't care less about their lives. (Well, as
individuals, sure, but as for the industry, if CATV went away completely
tomorrow, it would suit me fine--provided only that they took their
tarts and talking heads with them.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

I assure you that the selection of RF connector will have no effect on
CATV content quality. I like the tarts, but can do without the
talking heads.

Nah, sufficiently crappy connectors could improve the content a lot.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net