Ultimate Dumbing Down...

[Don Y]

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

<rolls eyes>

 

[a a]

Off-topic troll...

--
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
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Subject: Ultimate Dumbing Down
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700
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[John Larkin]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 01-Sept-23 12:31 pm, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.

I suppose it avoids discriminating against people who just look young
for their age.

When I was young (a long time ago - sigh) I was twice stopped by police
while driving my own car because they thought I looked too young to be
driving. Since this was in the UK, neither case escalated into a
shooting [*]

Sylvia.

[*] Though the fact that neither the public nor the police are allowed
to routinely [**] carry firearms in the UK may have been a factor.

[**] Sorry about the split infinitive.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:53:19 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

On 01-Sept-23 12:31 pm, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.


I suppose it avoids discriminating against people who just look young
for their age.

When I was young (a long time ago - sigh) I was twice stopped by police
while driving my own car because they thought I looked too young to be
driving. Since this was in the UK, neither case escalated into a
shooting [*]

Sylvia.

[*] Though the fact that neither the public nor the police are allowed
to routinely [**] carry firearms in the UK may have been a factor.

[**] Sorry about the split infinitive.

Oh, grow up.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 01/09/2023 03:31, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.

What a curious rule to have in \"The Land of the Free\". Papers please...

I noticed that when we bought food and a beer from some spotty teenager
in a US fast food joint they had to get their supervisor to come and
handle the very dangerous alcoholic liquid and make the final sale.

It isn\'t like we look anything like remotely under 25!

--
Martin Brown

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2023 11:58:33 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/09/2023 03:31, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.

What a curious rule to have in \"The Land of the Free\". Papers please...

I assume that the management doesn\'t want the checkout people having
to make judgements about age.

Can kids buy liquor where you live?

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, August 31, 2023 at 9:38:52 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Your limitations in thinking amaze me. You seem to think everything in the world should be run the way you would run it, if you were in charge of every management position in the entire company, with perfect knowledge and instant communications.

The reason for automating the verification of age in purchasing liquor is accuracy. People screw up. That\'s why 35,000 people die in auto accidents in the US every year. Selling alcohol to someone underage is a big deal, potentially costing a store their liquor license and/or landing someone in jail.

Why would you not be able to see this immediately, without a big discussion?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 8/31/2023 7:53 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

I suppose it avoids discriminating against people who just look young for their
age.

When I was young (a long time ago - sigh) I was twice stopped by police while
driving my own car because they thought I looked too young to be driving.

I\'ve found that peoples\' (cursory) perceptions of age are largely
based on facial expressions, manner of dress, etc. Folks who
seem to be in a perpetual \"scowl\" always seem to be perceived
as \"older\" (grumpy?).

[What *is* it with old folks that they tend to be so visibly
unhappy all the time? Watch people driving their cars or
walking around a store... Jeez, is life THAT bad??]

I almost always have a smile on my face -- as if I\'m thinking
about a private joke. And, dress like a teenager. I suspect
that is what drives the consistent underestimates of my age.

When I get together with colleagues for offsite visits,
some dinner experience inevitably draws attention to this
error in judgement (\"And what will your SON be having?\"
\"Oh, your DAD must be so proud of you...\" \"Can I see
some ID, please?\").

[My colleagues just grin but their wives REALLY get
upset if the comment implies THEY are older...]

I\'ve taken to growing a beard in preparation for these
occasions as *that* is now snow white -- and really hard
to ignore if you\'re looking at me! (though I despise
facial hair and rid myself of it soon after the trip)

Since
this was in the UK, neither case escalated into a shooting [*]

You have to make more of an effort...

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 5:54:17 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:53:19 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid
wrote:
On 01-Sept-23 12:31 pm, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.


I suppose it avoids discriminating against people who just look young
for their age.

When I was young (a long time ago - sigh) I was twice stopped by police
while driving my own car because they thought I looked too young to be
driving. Since this was in the UK, neither case escalated into a
shooting [*]

Sylvia.

[*] Though the fact that neither the public nor the police are allowed
to routinely [**] carry firearms in the UK may have been a factor.

[**] Sorry about the split infinitive.
Oh, grow up.

Try looking in the mirror!

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Dan Purgert]

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

It just scans the magstrip / barcode on the ID (which, IIRC, checks back
with the official state database -- least the scanners here do). The
funny thing is, it\'s only at the mom&pop shops; the big grocery store
chains still just look at bday).

I remember being a cashier at a corner store as a late teen / early 20s
(in college) - carded everyone, regardless of how old they look, because
like hell am I gonna get caught out by some 20 year old who looks older
than the \"we card anyone younger looking than [age]\" (IIRC 25 or 30).

At least until I learned the faces of the regulars (while the store was
near the university, it was in a normal city rather than a \"college
town\", so there were quite a lot of bi-weekly types getting their payday
beers, etc.)


--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Dan Purgert]

On 2023-09-01, Martin Brown wrote:

[...]
I noticed that when we bought food and a beer from some spotty teenager
in a US fast food joint they had to get their supervisor to come and
handle the very dangerous alcoholic liquid and make the final sale.

Younger than 18 can\'t sell alcohol by law. So they needed an 18+
colleague to do it. Granted we still can\'t drink it til 21 ...

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Don Y]

On 9/1/2023 3:58 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> What a curious rule to have in \"The Land of the Free\". Papers please...

*Any* traffic stop requires presenting same...

I noticed that when we bought food and a beer from some spotty teenager in a US
fast food joint they had to get their supervisor to come and handle the very
dangerous alcoholic liquid and make the final sale.

Laws regarding alcohol are... perverse.

<https://www.epi.org/blog/alcohol-service-age/>

It\'s often been pointed out that you can die for your country
(\"enlist\") but not legally DRINK. In the past, there have
been restrictions on the age of \"servers\". But, as the above
reference indicates, some states obviously feel there aren\'t
enough bartenders to keep these restrictions in place...

<rolls eyes>

> It isn\'t like we look anything like remotely under 25!

Growing up, 18 was the minimum age to drink (ANY sort of
alcoholic beverage; some states treat beer and liquor
differently).

And, purchases after 8PM were prohibited (a grocery
store that also sold beer/wine would have a retractable
cover that would obfuscate that portion of the cooler to
make it clear that those sales were prohibited... but,
that you could continue your shopping experience,
otherwise!)

Some places have low alcohol beer for younger folks
(\"near beer\").

Some businesses couldn\'t SELL alcohol (you need a liquor
license to do so) BUT you could BYOB and consume it
on the premises! (what\'s the logic, there?)

There have typically been looser standards for verifying
age and, as a result, many abuses (selling to minors).
When I was in school, having a college ID *implied* that
you were \"of age\" (lucky for me!). As the drinking age
was increased, that assumption is no longer true.

Many places will post notices to the effect of
\"If you APPEAR to be under 40, we will card you\".
I\'m not sure how that plays out with 30 year olds
who DON\'T get carded (\"Wow, you must look really old!\")

The experience I cited, here, is likely a policy of
\"we card everyone\" which probably makes sense in a place
that specializes in selling alcohol (a violation means
your entire business is shutdown)

 

[Don Y]

On 9/1/2023 4:42 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:
I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

It just scans the magstrip / barcode on the ID (which, IIRC, checks back
with the official state database -- least the scanners here do). The

No. It\'s just an appliance with a power cord. It knows
today\'s date, the age limit that you\'re interested in
(so the device can be sold for different applications),
reads the birthdate from the barcode and does the math.
Green light for GO...

I suspect transfering that *data* to ANYTHING would raise eyebrows
(\"why are you tracking my purchases, name, address, DoB, etc.?\")
as the mere presence of such an appliance performing an action
that a CHILD could perform suggests!

funny thing is, it\'s only at the mom&pop shops; the big grocery store
chains still just look at bday).

I remember being a cashier at a corner store as a late teen / early 20s
(in college) - carded everyone, regardless of how old they look, because
like hell am I gonna get caught out by some 20 year old who looks older
than the \"we card anyone younger looking than [age]\" (IIRC 25 or 30).

It\'s always been rather easy to verify legal age: if you were
born AFTER this day in <today\'s date>-21 years, then you can\'t
buy alcohol. No need to make age assessments -- just ask everyone
for an ID and check the date (\"Oh, sorry, you were born in
2005; you are underage!\")

If you look at a DL, finding the date isn\'t hard -- it\'s written
in TWO places on mine; it\'s smack dab in the center of my passport
card; AND my passport\'s information page. The easiest datum to
extract from any of these credentials!

You (the store owner) are trusting someone to recognize the amount
of currency tendered AND be able to correctly count the change
required... AND, to handle a potential robbery according to
store policy -- but NOT to be able to determine (based on a printed
birthdate) \"was this person born before or after 1 september 2002\"?

Do you disallow sales to foreign nationals who don\'t have
credentials that can be read by such an appliance? Or,
folks who have an older credential not marked as such?

Or, (gasp!) do you rely on the clerk to perform this task
manually... having had so little experience doing it
in the normal course of his duties?

[We live an hour from the international border so many cars
with out-of-COUNTRY license plates}

At least until I learned the faces of the regulars (while the store was
near the university, it was in a normal city rather than a \"college
town\", so there were quite a lot of bi-weekly types getting their payday
beers, etc.)

I would imagine store owners would be more sensitive near
the university as there is a greater likelihood that
underage customers would *attempt* purchases.

But, I can\'t imagine many younguns graying their hair just
to be able to buy beer...

 

[Martin Brown]

On 01/09/2023 12:10, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Sep 2023 11:58:33 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 01/09/2023 03:31, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:38:35 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

Just how low have they set the qualifications for cashiers
if they can\'t make THAT decision, unaided?? Are they sure
the cashier can differentiate a $5 from a $20?

rolls eyes

Our Safeway is asking everyone that buys beer for an ID. New policy.

What a curious rule to have in \"The Land of the Free\". Papers please...

I assume that the management doesn\'t want the checkout people having
to make judgements about age.

Most of the time it is blindingly obvious that the majority shoppers in
a supermarket are not spotty teenagers trying to buy liquor/beer.

> Can kids buy liquor where you live?

Back when I was growing up I could easily pass for 18 (UK legal drinking
age) when I was 16 - these days it is a lot tighter on ID for under 25\'s
but anyone over 18 can buy a drink.

Buying alcohol triggers an alert on supermarket self checkouts that
requires someone to OK the sale either using video feed from the till
camera or by physical intervention and entering a supervisor code. It
means that at busy times of day it isn\'t worth buying alcohol in some
stores because of the wait time for a supervisor to authorise it.

--
Martin Brown

 

[Dan Purgert]

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:

On 8/31/2023 7:53 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
I suppose it avoids discriminating against people who just look young
for their age.

When I was young (a long time ago - sigh) I was twice stopped by
police while driving my own car because they thought I looked too
young to be driving.

I\'ve found that peoples\' (cursory) perceptions of age are largely
based on facial expressions, manner of dress, etc. Folks who
seem to be in a perpetual \"scowl\" always seem to be perceived
as \"older\" (grumpy?).

[What *is* it with old folks that they tend to be so visibly
unhappy all the time? Watch people driving their cars or
walking around a store... Jeez, is life THAT bad??]

I just figure they\'re mad about the neighborhood kids on their lawn


--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Dan Purgert]

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:

On 9/1/2023 4:42 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:
I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

It just scans the magstrip / barcode on the ID (which, IIRC, checks back
with the official state database -- least the scanners here do). The

No. It\'s just an appliance with a power cord. It knows
today\'s date, the age limit that you\'re interested in
(so the device can be sold for different applications),
reads the birthdate from the barcode and does the math.
Green light for GO...

Maybe I\'m thinking of the ones at the pharmacy when I wanna get the
formerly OTC cold medicines that actually work. Either way, scanny
thing on the barcode.

[...]
At least until I learned the faces of the regulars (while the store was
near the university, it was in a normal city rather than a \"college
town\", so there were quite a lot of bi-weekly types getting their payday
beers, etc.)

I would imagine store owners would be more sensitive near
the university as there is a greater likelihood that
underage customers would *attempt* purchases.

Or in general for any \"newish\" cashier (least here in the USA). The cops
are picky about selling to minors afterall...


--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Don Y]

On 9/1/2023 6:24 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:

[What *is* it with old folks that they tend to be so visibly
unhappy all the time? Watch people driving their cars or
walking around a store... Jeez, is life THAT bad??]

I just figure they\'re mad about the neighborhood kids on their lawn

I suspect it is something much more fundamental than that.

SWMBO had a woman trying to gain entry to the car parked
next to hers, the other day. She made some snide remark
regarding how *close* SWMBO had parked to HER vehicle
and, if SHE had done that, how annoyed SWMBO would be!

SWMBO looked down at the painted lines demarcating the
spot she had occupied and noticed the other woman *was*,
in fact, the one who had parked too close.

\"Yeah, I guess I *would* be annoyed (you old bat!)\"

(Hopefully, you\'ll be out of your misery, soon...)

 

[Don Y]

On 9/1/2023 6:29 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:
On 9/1/2023 4:42 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
On 2023-09-01, Don Y wrote:
I had to visit a package store, yesterday, to buy some
booze for a friend\'s bday. After ringing up the sale,
he asked for my ID (REALLY? Do I look *20*? 30?? 40???)

Turns out, they\'ve got a little appliance to verify your age.
Despite the fact that the two items most visible on the
license are your birthdate... and your birthdate??

It just scans the magstrip / barcode on the ID (which, IIRC, checks back
with the official state database -- least the scanners here do). The

No. It\'s just an appliance with a power cord. It knows
today\'s date, the age limit that you\'re interested in
(so the device can be sold for different applications),
reads the birthdate from the barcode and does the math.
Green light for GO...

Maybe I\'m thinking of the ones at the pharmacy when I wanna get the
formerly OTC cold medicines that actually work. Either way, scanny
thing on the barcode.

I\'ve not explored the format of the barcode but imagine everything
PRINTED on the credential is also encoded, there. So, a scanner
*could* harvest name, address, DoB, DL number, state of issue, etc.

If you presented an ID to a store clerk to make a liquor purchase
and saw them writing down your name, address, etc. you\'d likely get
upset: \"Why do you need THAT information? Can\'t you see that I am
of legal age to make the purchase?\"

[...]
At least until I learned the faces of the regulars (while the store was
near the university, it was in a normal city rather than a \"college
town\", so there were quite a lot of bi-weekly types getting their payday
beers, etc.)

I would imagine store owners would be more sensitive near
the university as there is a greater likelihood that
underage customers would *attempt* purchases.

Or in general for any \"newish\" cashier (least here in the USA). The cops
are picky about selling to minors afterall...

Yes. But, it\'s still not a skill that requires years of advanced
training! Most folks can get the age to \"within a year\" just
doing mental arithmetic with year of birth and current year.
Just like they can figure out their *own* age without having
to resort to a calculator!

And, unless the device ENFORCES the prohibition on the sale
(what if the purchase DOESN\'T include liquor?), the clerk
can always \"forget\" to scan the ID.

If, OTOH, it does enforce the age check, a clerk can still
sell to minors by having a photocopy of ANY driver\'s license
handy to scan to enable those purchases (cuz the appliance
doesn\'t know that you\'re scanning the same credential
repeatedly)

It\'s a stupid product that poorly addresses an artificial need.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/1/2023 6:09 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

Back when I was growing up I could easily pass for 18 (UK legal drinking age)
when I was 16 - these days it is a lot tighter on ID for under 25\'s but anyone
over 18 can buy a drink.

I was fortunate to have a college ID (as I was significantly underage
at the time when \"partying\" was important!)

Buying alcohol triggers an alert on supermarket self checkouts that requires
someone to OK the sale either using video feed from the till camera or by
physical intervention and entering a supervisor code. It means that at busy
times of day it isn\'t worth buying alcohol in some stores because of the wait
time for a supervisor to authorise it.

The same is true, here. But, it is usually only an inconvenience
at \"self checkout\" as, if you are at a \"manned\" checkout register,
the clerk will make that judgement call without needing a supervisor\'s
involvement.

Amusing that beer (~5%) and wine (~11%) -- along with \"spirits\" -- require
an ID. But, you can purchase all of the flavored baking extracts (~35-60%)
without any credentials at all!

[And, some are cheaper than equivalent volumes of booze -- and don\'t have
ADDED \"alcoholic beverage\" taxes!]

Ever have anyone check your age when picking up a prescription
medication?