UK Phone line question...

[server]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 10:15:23 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 31/08/2020 21:13, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 20:17:11 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/2020 17:57, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I\'m getting 120/40 Mbits at home from the cable TV provider, which is
shockingly better than what we got over old soggy twisted pairs from
AT&T.

Cable TV is only available in cities.
My brother in law gets 350M down/35M up on that with a cable TV feed.

We have some friends in a small town with horrible internet, so one of
their neighbors bought a microwave dish pair (amazingly cheap) and
shoot across Tomales Bay to connect their neighborhood. At work we
have a dish on the roof for internet and IP phones. It would have been
a big deal to jackhammer the sidewalks to run fiber to our place.

The rural fast solution in the UK is a peer to peer (actually there are
supernodes) microwave network. From the antenna size and available data
rates I\'d guess up in the 30GHz band somewhere. Particularly since there
is a very strict line of sight requirement and no trees in the way.

It is popular with farmers since you get reliable 20M symmetric links or
30/10 and they are typically on unreliable <1Mbps long copper circuits.
farmers also have nice tall farm buildings to get decent line of sight!

The local Superfast Yorkshire \"initiative\" is strong on branding but
weak on technical support as their webpage so clearly demonstrates!

http://superfastnorthyorkshire.com/wherewhen#page-content

The people running the actual services on the ground are much better and
offer an effective alternative to the poxy copper fixed lines. eg.
(the mixed aluminium and copper circuits are the worst by far)

http://signa-uk.com/moorsweb/hosting-packages-agreements/

I would have it myself but I don\'t have line of sight on a node.

Amazon will sell you a pair of dishes for well under $200, that
apparently act like a long piece of CAT6. We get out internet from
Monkey Brains, with a little dish on the roof. It\'s been great. We
signed up for 50/50 speed and usually get about 400/400.

https://www.monkeybrains.net/

The line of sight is under half a mile, apparently to another of their
dishes in some sort of distributed network. The initial proposal
referenced a 174 dB link budget.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4kz2j7ikii3b0z/Monkey_Brains_Dish.JPG?raw=1

Even with my rotten eyesight, I can see about 30 or 40 various dishes
from the roof of our office. It would be cool if all those beams
glowed in the dark at night.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lnfsvot7ot2p4q/Roof_West.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s28jc85mg78hqnx/DSC02561.JPG?raw=1


I assume that 6G or something will eventually replace the tangles that
we use now.





--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[server]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 10:38:29 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/2020 17:00, Tim Williams wrote:
They don\'t have commercials for the equivalent of \"call before your dig\"
on the TV all the time over there..?!  Hard to avoid over here.  Please
check the web, or the phone book, before planning something so reckless!

Seems to be something like this over there,
https://www.national-one-call.co.uk/

There are a few places where there are strictly enforced \"no dig\" zones
typically around very high pressure gas pipelines. The one near me has a
50ft exclusion zone either side and a helicopter patrol once a week with
a leak detector. Apparently if it did rupture it would be 180dB at 100m.

There was a spectacular failure several decades ago, but most people
have now forgotten about it. The expected mode of failure if it ruptured
is exciting since the cold ethylene gas is heavier than air and will run
down the hill to the sewage pumping station which may well ignite it.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pipelines/ukopa.htm

However, most street digging is pretty hit and miss. Especially with the
plastic gas pipes buried in the 1970\'s with no foil tape on to find them
again. We were involved in an early ground penetrating radar to try and
locate them. The official maps tend to be quite inaccurate so it is
always wise to dig with the utmost caution in city streets.

In many of our neighborhoods, the wiring is on old, mostly rotten,
wooden poles. I\'m collecting a photo album of the Greatest Hits.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/njnhfmkgi5t16wc/AAAl4rD1v2UykVks5BeGjVota?dl=0

Our natural gas piping was upgraded a few years ago. They fished
little plastic high-pressure tubes inside the old rusting iron pipes.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[server]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 03:10:47 -0700 (PDT), jrwalliker@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:38:40 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
There are a few places where there are strictly enforced \"no dig\" zones
typically around very high pressure gas pipelines. The one near me has a
50ft exclusion zone either side and a helicopter patrol once a week with
a leak detector. Apparently if it did rupture it would be 180dB at 100m.
...
However, most street digging is pretty hit and miss. Especially with the
plastic gas pipes buried in the 1970\'s with no foil tape on to find them
again. We were involved in an early ground penetrating radar to try and
locate them. The official maps tend to be quite inaccurate so it is
always wise to dig with the utmost caution in city streets.

Many years ago a high pressure natural gas main was ruptured by digging
close to the boundary of Guy\'s Hospital and Snowsfields in London.
I think it took an hour or so for the gas company to find the appropriate
shutoff valve. According to a colleague who was there at the time the
noise was extremely loud even on the other side of a multi-storey
building. Fortunately the gas did not ignite.

Later in the same area I saw an excavator that had fallen into a forgotten
tunnel while it was digging on the site of a new building. That part
of London is very cluttered underground and many records were lost and
underground structures forgotten as a result of WW2 bombing damage.

John

A few years ago, a gas pipe exploded in San Bruno and killed a bunch
of people.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[Martin Brown]

On 02/09/2020 14:58, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 10:15:23 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 31/08/2020 21:13, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 20:17:11 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/08/2020 17:57, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I\'m getting 120/40 Mbits at home from the cable TV provider, which is
shockingly better than what we got over old soggy twisted pairs from
AT&T.

Cable TV is only available in cities.
My brother in law gets 350M down/35M up on that with a cable TV feed.

We have some friends in a small town with horrible internet, so one of
their neighbors bought a microwave dish pair (amazingly cheap) and
shoot across Tomales Bay to connect their neighborhood. At work we
have a dish on the roof for internet and IP phones. It would have been
a big deal to jackhammer the sidewalks to run fiber to our place.

The rural fast solution in the UK is a peer to peer (actually there are
supernodes) microwave network. From the antenna size and available data
rates I\'d guess up in the 30GHz band somewhere. Particularly since there
is a very strict line of sight requirement and no trees in the way.

It is popular with farmers since you get reliable 20M symmetric links or
30/10 and they are typically on unreliable <1Mbps long copper circuits.
farmers also have nice tall farm buildings to get decent line of sight!

The local Superfast Yorkshire \"initiative\" is strong on branding but
weak on technical support as their webpage so clearly demonstrates!

http://superfastnorthyorkshire.com/wherewhen#page-content

The people running the actual services on the ground are much better and
offer an effective alternative to the poxy copper fixed lines. eg.
(the mixed aluminium and copper circuits are the worst by far)

http://signa-uk.com/moorsweb/hosting-packages-agreements/

I would have it myself but I don\'t have line of sight on a node.

Amazon will sell you a pair of dishes for well under $200, that
apparently act like a long piece of CAT6. We get out internet from
Monkey Brains, with a little dish on the roof. It\'s been great. We
signed up for 50/50 speed and usually get about 400/400.

https://www.monkeybrains.net/

The line of sight is under half a mile, apparently to another of their
dishes in some sort of distributed network. The initial proposal
referenced a 174 dB link budget.

That looks like a very similar peer to peer line of sight technology
although in the UK there is radome weather protection on the dish. I
think the next tier on the system is 200M (same hardware) and then 2G.
However on the one here you only need to buy a single dish and point it
at one of the nearest omnidirectional broadcast nodes. I think you get a
slight discount and higher speed if you host a rebroadcast node.

I assume that 6G or something will eventually replace the tangles that
we use now.

In the cities maybe, but I expect hell to freeze over before we get 5G
out here in the sticks. There are still a few 2.5G masts round here. My
nearest mobile not spot is within a 2 minute walk. Not far away from us
is an entire village in a valley with no mobile signal at all.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Michael_A_Terrell]

AIOE wrote:

UK ???

Never heard of Fox and Hound signal tracer ?
Harbor Freight or other places .

Would you bet your life on something made to find out which cable
had the signal, at a few inches rather than buried cable?


--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don\'t get mad.

They don\'t get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

 

[none]

In article <rinp6m$6nv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
<SNIP>

However, most street digging is pretty hit and miss. Especially with the
plastic gas pipes buried in the 1970\'s with no foil tape on to find them
again. We were involved in an early ground penetrating radar to try and
locate them. The official maps tend to be quite inaccurate so it is
always wise to dig with the utmost caution in city streets.

My borther worked as a civil engineer on the sewer system in Amsterdam.
They had a city archeologist to study all what is buried in the ground,
no kidding.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Groetjes Albert
--
This is the first day of the end of your life.
It may not kill you, but it does make your weaker.
If you can\'t beat them, too bad.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

 

[Robert Baer]

TTman wrote:

I\'m planning digging up my concrete drive and lawn. A BT cable to the
house runs under both. I tried finding where it went using a metal
detector to no avail. Any other way to trace where the cable runs ?
I know BT engineers inject a signal into a pair to do a trace that way...
Any one any practical solutions ?
I\'d hate to chop the cable and be without B/band for ages

I use a large 21 inch degaussing coil, about 2.6mH SRF ~80kHz taped
to a stiff cardboard sheet held parallel to ground.
Hums,buzzes etc change as one transverses a cable; change is sharp
enough if traveling perpendicular to cable and nominally gives one inch
resolution (one foot estimated depth of cable).

 

[Robert Baer]

Robert Baer wrote:

TTman wrote:
I\'m planning digging up my concrete drive and lawn. A BT cable to the
house runs under both. I tried finding where it went using a metal
detector to no avail. Any other way to trace where the cable runs ?
I know BT engineers inject a signal into a pair to do a trace that way...
Any one any practical solutions ?
I\'d hate to chop the cable and be without B/band for ages

  I use a large 21 inch degaussing coil, about 2.6mH SRF ~80kHz taped
to a stiff cardboard sheet held parallel to ground.
  Hums,buzzes etc change as one transverses a cable; change is sharp
enough if traveling perpendicular to cable and nominally gives one inch
resolution (one foot estimated depth of cable).

Found the second loop i used: again a degaussing coil 13.7 inch
diameter, about 7.1 mH SRF 53kHz mounted same way.
Similar sensitivity.