L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 23.06.18 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:
what are you on about??
what are you on about??
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E
Eddy Lee
Guest
On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 2:13:32â¯PM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
I need a switching signal while the car is moving, to even out the energy storages.onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 23.06.18 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 9:15:48â¯AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th
century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough
to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there\'s
little reason no to include it
There is sadly no mechanical equivalent of a switching regulator.
Gears are fixed ratios and variable ratio systems are, so far, all
inefficient or plain bad. CVTs are often lemons.
Why not tap into the ABS sensor? I just need a very rough switching between 168V and 392V.
what are you on about??
J
jeroen
Guest
On 2023-08-16 23:13, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
He\'s just keeping a number of nominally serious people busy with
one crazy suggestion after another. He knows very well what he is
doing. It\'s pathetic that people keep reacting to it.
Put him in your killfile and be done with it!
Jeroen Belleman
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 23.06.18 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:
[...]
Why not tap into the ABS sensor? I just need a very rough switching between 168V and 392V.
what are you on about??
He\'s just keeping a number of nominally serious people busy with
one crazy suggestion after another. He knows very well what he is
doing. It\'s pathetic that people keep reacting to it.
Put him in your killfile and be done with it!
Jeroen Belleman
B
bitrex
Guest
On 8/16/2023 4:30 PM, John Larkin wrote:
A plug-in hybrid is a difficult vehicle to three-legged-stool balance,
to make the battery and engine both first-class citizens.
The tendency is to build a predominantly gas car with a tacked-on
battery power train, or like the BMW i3, a predominantly EV with a
tacked on motorcycle engine.
It\'s small market segment to begin with, most PHEVs don\'t sell large
numbers. The Chevy Volt was both the best selling PHEV and EV in general
in America for many years (until displaced by the Model 3 on the latter
front) in large part because it got the balance right, not a trivial
engineering task.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
The 10% I saw was for a plug-in hybrid, that\'s supposed to use battery
power for short trips. One plugin averaged 8% of its miles electric, a
BMW or something.
Maybe rich people buy plug-in hybrids for eco status but don\'t bother
to charge them in real life.
A plug-in hybrid is a difficult vehicle to three-legged-stool balance,
to make the battery and engine both first-class citizens.
The tendency is to build a predominantly gas car with a tacked-on
battery power train, or like the BMW i3, a predominantly EV with a
tacked on motorcycle engine.
It\'s small market segment to begin with, most PHEVs don\'t sell large
numbers. The Chevy Volt was both the best selling PHEV and EV in general
in America for many years (until displaced by the Model 3 on the latter
front) in large part because it got the balance right, not a trivial
engineering task.
B
bitrex
Guest
On 8/16/2023 6:11 PM, bitrex wrote:
Or rather to make the electrical powertrain and the ICE powertrain both
first-class citizens
On 8/16/2023 4:30 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
The 10% I saw was for a plug-in hybrid, that\'s supposed to use battery
power for short trips. One plugin averaged 8% of its miles electric, a
BMW or something.
Maybe rich people buy plug-in hybrids for eco status but don\'t bother
to charge them in real life.
A plug-in hybrid is a difficult vehicle to three-legged-stool balance,
to make the battery and engine both first-class citizens.
Or rather to make the electrical powertrain and the ICE powertrain both
first-class citizens
J
Joe Gwinn
Guest
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 12:01:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
I don\'t know the exact numbers, but do know that it\'s at least a
factor of three, and ten is certainly plausible in some scenarios.
Joe Gwinn
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
I don\'t know the exact numbers, but do know that it\'s at least a
factor of three, and ten is certainly plausible in some scenarios.
Joe Gwinn
B
bitrex
Guest
On 8/16/2023 1:49 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
The R&D costs of building a well-balanced plug-in hybrid are high, the
materials costs are high since you have to have both an electric
drive-train and mechanical/ICE powertrain, so the margins are low, and
there\'s not a lot of demand to begin with.
There are all sorts of wild concepts in the hybrid powertrain solution
space that could be explored, sports cars with electric AWD and
mid-engine Wankel range extenders, turbodiesel plug-in hybrid pickups,
etc...that will likely never happen just cuz market don\'t allow their
existence.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:15:26 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
The R&D costs of building a well-balanced plug-in hybrid are high, the
materials costs are high since you have to have both an electric
drive-train and mechanical/ICE powertrain, so the margins are low, and
there\'s not a lot of demand to begin with.
There are all sorts of wild concepts in the hybrid powertrain solution
space that could be explored, sports cars with electric AWD and
mid-engine Wankel range extenders, turbodiesel plug-in hybrid pickups,
etc...that will likely never happen just cuz market don\'t allow their
existence.
B
bitrex
Guest
On 8/16/2023 6:25 PM, bitrex wrote:
Market forces don\'t allow their existence, rather
On 8/16/2023 1:49 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:15:26 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
The R&D costs of building a well-balanced plug-in hybrid are high, the
materials costs are high since you have to have both an electric
drive-train and mechanical/ICE powertrain, so the margins are low, and
there\'s not a lot of demand to begin with.
There are all sorts of wild concepts in the hybrid powertrain solution
space that could be explored, sports cars with electric AWD and
mid-engine Wankel range extenders, turbodiesel plug-in hybrid pickups,
etc...that will likely never happen just cuz market don\'t allow their
existence.
Market forces don\'t allow their existence, rather
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 00.25.15 UTC+2 skrev bitrex:
https://jalopnik.com/driving-audis-dakar-tackling-electric-truck-the-rs-q-e-1848891899
On 8/16/2023 1:49 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:15:26 -0700, John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
The R&D costs of building a well-balanced plug-in hybrid are high, the
materials costs are high since you have to have both an electric
drive-train and mechanical/ICE powertrain, so the margins are low, and
there\'s not a lot of demand to begin with.
There are all sorts of wild concepts in the hybrid powertrain solution
space that could be explored, sports cars with electric AWD and
mid-engine Wankel range extenders, turbodiesel plug-in hybrid pickups,
etc...that will likely never happen just cuz market don\'t allow their
existence.
https://jalopnik.com/driving-audis-dakar-tackling-electric-truck-the-rs-q-e-1848891899
D
Don Y
Guest
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
Yeah -- an electric hummer. Where\'s the savings there?
In an SUV, you\'re still driving \"a small car\", looking at
the bumpers of the jacked up pickup trucks in front of you.
People aren\'t one-issue buyers. If I want to save the planet, I\'ll
walk, more. (I can address all of my shopping needs on foot,
pushing a cart full of items back home along the sidewalk. I
used to walk to the Post Office, 2.5mi each way; the library,
a similar distance; MD at 3 mi -- and, passing many stores
along either of these routes).
But, I\'m not keen on spending all of that time \"traveling\"
especially without \"climate controls\".
I could adopt a small wheeled vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle)
to overcome the time loss. But, still suffer from being
exposed to the elements.
A \"smart car\" -- or even a \"typical car\" -- would be lost
among the oversized vehicles around you (this was SWMBO\'s
prime motivation for upsizing to an SUV).
We looked at ~30 different vehicles -- including hybrids
and BEVs when she wanted a new ride. The EVs were the first
to fail to make the cut. (We particularly noted how tiny
they are in traffic and how quickly our friends dumped
theirs for larger vehicles -- an electric mustang and
an electric hummer. Gotta wonder how much they\'re
\"saving the planet\"!)
She regrets not getting a *larger* SUV. Neither of us
think we\'ve \"missed out\" by avoiding the electrics.
[I\'m currently looking for another \"classic\" car that I
can slip a big block 454 into and try out some control
algorithms that a colleague and I have been mulling over.
Cars should be *fun* to drive and maintain... what do
you buy for your EV? An air freshener??]
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
I spent 20 minutes in traffic, last week, traveling
half a mile (some idiot had closed 2 of 3 travel lanes during
\"rush hour\"). The car indicated I was getting like 3MPG.
When I broke free of the construction area, that immediately
climbed to ~25MPG for the remaining mile of my trip.]
perfect for an EV or hybrid
Yeah -- an electric hummer. Where\'s the savings there?
In an SUV, you\'re still driving \"a small car\", looking at
the bumpers of the jacked up pickup trucks in front of you.
People aren\'t one-issue buyers. If I want to save the planet, I\'ll
walk, more. (I can address all of my shopping needs on foot,
pushing a cart full of items back home along the sidewalk. I
used to walk to the Post Office, 2.5mi each way; the library,
a similar distance; MD at 3 mi -- and, passing many stores
along either of these routes).
But, I\'m not keen on spending all of that time \"traveling\"
especially without \"climate controls\".
I could adopt a small wheeled vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle)
to overcome the time loss. But, still suffer from being
exposed to the elements.
A \"smart car\" -- or even a \"typical car\" -- would be lost
among the oversized vehicles around you (this was SWMBO\'s
prime motivation for upsizing to an SUV).
We looked at ~30 different vehicles -- including hybrids
and BEVs when she wanted a new ride. The EVs were the first
to fail to make the cut. (We particularly noted how tiny
they are in traffic and how quickly our friends dumped
theirs for larger vehicles -- an electric mustang and
an electric hummer. Gotta wonder how much they\'re
\"saving the planet\"!)
She regrets not getting a *larger* SUV. Neither of us
think we\'ve \"missed out\" by avoiding the electrics.
[I\'m currently looking for another \"classic\" car that I
can slip a big block 454 into and try out some control
algorithms that a colleague and I have been mulling over.
Cars should be *fun* to drive and maintain... what do
you buy for your EV? An air freshener??]
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
D
Don Y
Guest
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:32:45 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
There\'s a limited amount of time that you can accelerate at 0.3 G\'s.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
There\'s a limited amount of time that you can accelerate at 0.3 G\'s.
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
fredag den 18. august 2023 kl. 00.33.05 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
when you want to accelerate to high way speeds in a reasonable time it is
and with an electric motor being capable of short term high peak power doesn\'t ruin
the efficiency at low power like it does on a combustion engine
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
when you want to accelerate to high way speeds in a reasonable time it is
and with an electric motor being capable of short term high peak power doesn\'t ruin
the efficiency at low power like it does on a combustion engine
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
fredag den 18. august 2023 kl. 00.52.09 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
yep, and some EVs can do +1G
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:32:45 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
There\'s a limited amount of time that you can accelerate at 0.3 G\'s.
yep, and some EVs can do +1G
D
Don Y
Guest
On 8/17/2023 4:10 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
That\'s because of the *way* you want to accelerate.
In NYC, a cab driver isn\'t going to be accelerating to high speed
coming off a traffic light. Here, OTOH, the speed limit between
lights is 45 -- meaning 55MPH. And, you\'ve got a mile before the
next one so a big incentive to take advantage of that speed.
There\'s nothing -- in \"nature\" -- that requires that performance
just like nothing requires me to drive 4000 pounds of vehicle to
the post office to check my box. OTOH, there are times when
I want to lug 1000+ pounds of kit from point A to point B
and would be really annoyed if I had to do that in several trips!
It takes me almost a month to go through a full tank of gas.
Yet, I\'d *not* want a smaller tank because of those times when I
may want to do a month of driving in a weekend (e.g., going to an
art exhibit in Feenigs will use almost a full tank of gas in a *day*).
So, I have to drive a vehicle that addresses ALL of these potential
usage types -- because I don\'t want to have to own additional vehicles
for specific use cases.
But, there is nothing REQUIRING that to be a condition for
life going forward. Personal situations can change (we have
friends who NEVER drive as they live in a \"catered\" environment
and just keep their vehicles \"in case\"). And, society can
change the way it accommodates people to encourage or discourage
behaviors that they (society) consider harmful.
E.g., I\'d much rather get on a high speed rail to get to
feenigs without having to *drive* myself -- esp if there was
a service at the far end that would get me the last few miles
to my specific destination.
fredag den 18. august 2023 kl. 00.33.05 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 17. august 2023 kl. 02.54.43 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 1:45 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 22.36.36 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
sure, but you don\'t need anything like 200-300hp on average
So, all EVs should similarly be limited to ONLY needing a few
dozen HP?
no need to since electric motors are not terribly inefficient at fractions
of their peak power
But their peak power isn\'t *necessary*!
when you want to accelerate to high way speeds in a reasonable time it is
and with an electric motor being capable of short term high peak power doesn\'t ruin
the efficiency at low power like it does on a combustion engine
That\'s because of the *way* you want to accelerate.
In NYC, a cab driver isn\'t going to be accelerating to high speed
coming off a traffic light. Here, OTOH, the speed limit between
lights is 45 -- meaning 55MPH. And, you\'ve got a mile before the
next one so a big incentive to take advantage of that speed.
There\'s nothing -- in \"nature\" -- that requires that performance
just like nothing requires me to drive 4000 pounds of vehicle to
the post office to check my box. OTOH, there are times when
I want to lug 1000+ pounds of kit from point A to point B
and would be really annoyed if I had to do that in several trips!
It takes me almost a month to go through a full tank of gas.
Yet, I\'d *not* want a smaller tank because of those times when I
may want to do a month of driving in a weekend (e.g., going to an
art exhibit in Feenigs will use almost a full tank of gas in a *day*).
So, I have to drive a vehicle that addresses ALL of these potential
usage types -- because I don\'t want to have to own additional vehicles
for specific use cases.
But, there is nothing REQUIRING that to be a condition for
life going forward. Personal situations can change (we have
friends who NEVER drive as they live in a \"catered\" environment
and just keep their vehicles \"in case\"). And, society can
change the way it accommodates people to encourage or discourage
behaviors that they (society) consider harmful.
E.g., I\'d much rather get on a high speed rail to get to
feenigs without having to *drive* myself -- esp if there was
a service at the far end that would get me the last few miles
to my specific destination.