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https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is
pretty convenient.
Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th century.
Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough to recapture
waste energy and feed it back into the system, there\'s little reason no to
include it
On 8/16/2023 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote:
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is
pretty convenient.
Yet, it must not be for many people if they\'ve, instead, opted to let the
engine charge their battery. And, visit a gas station *more* often to
compensate for their laziness wrt plugging in their cars? Are electric
car drivers just lazy?
As Winfield Hill said (to you):
    \"Do you mostly charge your Volt from the AC power line,
    or from its gas engine? I park my Prius on the street
    and so far there\'s no high-current AC outlet at work,
    so it\'s easier to just charge it with its gas engine.\"
His home sure looks suburban enough -- double-wide driveway,
two car garage (shitload of solar panels) -- yet he chooses to
park his silver prius out on the street?
Imagine what folks who live in apartment buildings, or *in* cities
must have to deal with!
[Ah, but the cities will pepper their streets with charging stations
instead of parking meters and apartment houses will install a hundred
in their parking lots -- all for free! Thos of us without EVs will
get monthly stipend checks from the gummit as compensation...]
On 8/16/2023 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote:
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which is
pretty convenient.
Yet, it must not be for many people if they\'ve, instead, opted to let the
engine charge their battery. And, visit a gas station *more* often to
compensate for their laziness wrt plugging in their cars? Are electric
car drivers just lazy?
As Winfield Hill said (to you):
\"Do you mostly charge your Volt from the AC power line,
or from its gas engine? I park my Prius on the street
and so far there\'s no high-current AC outlet at work,
so it\'s easier to just charge it with its gas engine.\"
His home sure looks suburban enough -- double-wide driveway,
two car garage (shitload of solar panels) -- yet he chooses to
park his silver prius out on the street?
Imagine what folks who live in apartment buildings, or *in* cities
must have to deal with!
[Ah, but the cities will pepper their streets with charging stations
instead of parking meters and apartment houses will install a hundred
in their parking lots -- all for free! Thos of us without EVs will
get monthly stipend checks from the gummit as compensation...]
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th
century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough
to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there\'s
little reason no to include it
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th
century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough
to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there\'s
little reason no to include it
There is sadly no mechanical equivalent of a switching regulator.
Gears are fixed ratios and variable ratio systems are, so far, all
inefficient or plain bad. CVTs are often lemons.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just
*4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat
road so by a factor of ~10?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:15:26 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Joe Gwinn
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
On 8/16/2023 12:01 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 16. august 2023 kl. 20.47.20 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
it takes maybe 30hp to drive a normal car at a steady 65-70mph on flat road
so by a factor of ~10?
That\'s probably \"ballpark\". Note that not all roads are flat.
And, you have to account for variations in wind speed, the need
to accelerate (to pass) *at* 60MPH, etc.
I spent 20 minutes in traffic, last week, traveling
half a mile (some idiot had closed 2 of 3 travel lanes during
\"rush hour\"). The car indicated I was getting like 3MPG.
When I broke free of the construction area, that immediately
climbed to ~25MPG for the remaining mile of my trip.]
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 11:47:04 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 10:49 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Sounds about right. The theory of the original hybrids was that the
ICE was sized to candle cruise, and the electric stuff provided the
power surge needed to accelerate fast enough to safely merge into 70
mph traffic on freeways. There was no intent to run on battery power
for cruising.
Exactly. It\'s not just \"accelerating to 70MPH\"; it\'s any time you need
to draw on the \"overprovisioned\" capacity of the ICE. Any ICE with a
real-time fuel efficiency gauge would make this pretty obvious to the
driver!
The fact that you can find V8\'s that will dynamically operate on just *4*
cylinders means the ICE is overprovisioned in many cases.
Turbos are a similar idea, boost a small engine to its mechanical
limits, pass the EPA mileage tests, and let heavy-footed drivers waste
all the gas they want to.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 03:03:21 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 8/15/2023 11:12 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:31:58 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/11/phevs-pollute-2-4x-more-than-official-ratings-lets-fix-the-eu-loophole/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissions-hybrid-vs-plug-in-hybrid-vs-battery-electric/
I wonder, on average, how many phev miles are driven using
electricity, as opposed to gasoline. I\'d expect that lots of people
gas up instead of charging. Saving The Earth is inconvenient.
For me it\'s as easy as plugging into an extension cord overnight, which
is pretty convenient.
That\'s not practical for a lot of people.
I saw one chart online that says that some high-end hybrids get under
10% of their miles from battery power.
Even for cars with engines, fully mechanical transmissions are so 20th
century. Like boiler pre-heaters once the hardware is economical enough
to recapture waste energy and feed it back into the system, there\'s
little reason no to include it
There is sadly no mechanical equivalent of a switching regulator.
Gears are fixed ratios and variable ratio systems are, so far, all
inefficient or plain bad. CVTs are often lemons.