TVs compatible, from one continent to the next??

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <F4SdndnpXbUSZrDQnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Seems to me you were a 'back room boy' with no experience of
production. Gawd help us if you were responsible for providing the
facilities others had to work round.

I produced & directed a live newscast for a year in '73 & 74 at Ft.
Greely, AK.

Ah. News. Hence all the references to U-Matic and VHS as if they were
broadcast systems.

BZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There was no video tape equipment
at that station. If you would pay attention, or even better, if you had
red that message of mine on the DOD Afrts website you might have a
clue. Why would I be loading 16 mm & 35 mm, but not mention video tape?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article<gf-dnRzoB7l3YbDQnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
U-matic? Only ever used for news stuff here. And office viewing
before VHS.

1" C Format ruled until the arrival of Beta SP and MII.

So, you used 2" until the other formats were availible?

Which part of 1" C format don't you understand?


What don't you understand? 2" predated all of the other formats.

Perhaps it's a language thing. Look it up if you don't understand 'ruled'.


"Television is a vast wasteland."

"And Usenet isn't far behind."


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <4didnYAd_J1JarDQnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Have you ever worked in TV production? There are very good reasons why
you wouldn't watch RGB in the studio if it is to be encoded later.

Really. Name ONE that you didn't pull out of your ass.

Sigh. Now I'm really sure you've never worked *in* TV.

I wonder if you've ever worked anywhere.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4didnYEd_J00arDQnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

It would be a very stupid studio that did so if it were intended for
analogue transmission.

It would be very stupid to make a statement like that when you know
nothing of how the video was processed. Some video processing systems
could use either composite or RGB+Sync, but decoding the video first
added more timing errors that had to be corrected elsewhere in the
system.

Which video processing systems? I take it you mean something not used in
the studio?

But pray tell of a composite video studio which had RGB available from
anything other than a single camera, etc.

--
*If they arrest the Energizer Bunny, would they charge it with battery? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4didnYAd_J1JarDQnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Have you ever worked in TV production? There are very good reasons why
you wouldn't watch RGB in the studio if it is to be encoded later.

Really. Name ONE that you didn't pull out of your ass.

Sigh. Now I'm really sure you've never worked *in* TV.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <F4SdndnpXbUSZrDQnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Seems to me you were a 'back room boy' with no experience of
production. Gawd help us if you were responsible for providing the
facilities others had to work round.

I produced & directed a live newscast for a year in '73 & 74 at Ft.
Greely, AK.

Ah. News. Hence all the references to U-Matic and VHS as if they were
broadcast systems.

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <gf-dnRzoB7l3YbDQnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

U-matic? Only ever used for news stuff here. And office viewing
before VHS.

1" C Format ruled until the arrival of Beta SP and MII.

So, you used 2" until the other formats were availible?

Which part of 1" C format don't you understand?

What don't you understand? 2" predated all of the other formats.

Perhaps it's a language thing. Look it up if you don't understand 'ruled'.

--
*Ever stop to think and forget to start again?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:31:34 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article<gf-dnRzoB7l3YbDQnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
U-matic? Only ever used for news stuff here. And office viewing
before VHS.

1" C Format ruled until the arrival of Beta SP and MII.

So, you used 2" until the other formats were availible?

Which part of 1" C format don't you understand?


What don't you understand? 2" predated all of the other formats.

Perhaps it's a language thing. Look it up if you don't understand
'ruled'.


"Television is a vast wasteland."


"And Usenet isn't far behind."

Internet television is the new frontier Mike. My new Samsung
is internet connected and I suspect that is the new trend. And not just a
trend but a developing standard.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <RZSdnVykJLbA2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

But pray tell of a composite video studio which had RGB available from
anything other than a single camera, etc.

You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio cameras
had RGB outputs.

I've already said that.

The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze
Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had cameras & monitors
only. Master control did every thing else. Just admit that you are
absolutely clueless about what was done, and how in a NTSC brodcast
plant.

Sorry - forgot you were talking about some one horse news studio in the
sticks.

The studios I worked in had all the vision FX needed locally in the
studio. They were production studios.

The presentation area had their own too if they wished to use such things
for programme junctions, etc.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Meat Plow wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:31:34 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article<gf-dnRzoB7l3YbDQnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
U-matic? Only ever used for news stuff here. And office viewing
before VHS.

1" C Format ruled until the arrival of Beta SP and MII.

So, you used 2" until the other formats were availible?

Which part of 1" C format don't you understand?


What don't you understand? 2" predated all of the other formats.

Perhaps it's a language thing. Look it up if you don't understand
'ruled'.


"Television is a vast wasteland."


"And Usenet isn't far behind."

Internet television is the new frontier Mike. My new Samsung
is internet connected and I suspect that is the new trend. And not just a
trend but a developing standard.

Hulu.com, and a TV tuner card in one computer already. I've watched
a few episodes of Stargate Universe and Stargate Atlantis on Hulu, along
with a few old movies. I am modifying a ceiling mount swing arm to bolt
it to my hospital bed. that way I can do web design or access usenet
when I am forced to lay down to relieve the swelling in my legs. I
bought a 7" HDTV recently to add to the monitor & keyboard arm. I
bought this Dell Optiplex 620 small footprint to use with a 24" LCD
monitor. The whole system will swing away from the bed when I'm not
using it. I got the industrial mount for free. The cheapest one made
for a hospital bed that would do was almost $2,000. I can do a lot of
cutting & welding for that price, including a telephone mount, and
controls to open the gates or look at the security cameras to see who is
at the door when I can't get up in time to anwser in person.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB105-PB&cat=MON would be nice
with four of the extra 19" LCD monitors, but it would be too big to move
away from the bed while laying down. ;-)


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <RZSdnV-kJLZN2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

I produced & directed a live newscast for a year in '73 & 74 at Ft.
Greely, AK.

Ah. News. Hence all the references to U-Matic and VHS as if they were
broadcast systems.

BZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There was no video tape equipment
at that station. If you would pay attention, or even better, if you had
red that message of mine on the DOD Afrts website you might have a
clue. Why would I be loading 16 mm & 35 mm, but not mention video tape?

You produced and directed a live newscast operation and loaded the film
yourself?

Change that one horse operation to a one donkey.

Sorry for thinking every broadcast operation would have VTR in the '70s. I
can only go by my own experience.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <RZSdnVykJLbA2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio cameras
had RGB outputs. The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze
Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had cameras & monitors
only. Master control did every thing else. Just admit that you are
absolutely clueless about what was done, and how in a NTSC brodcast
plant.

So this means any studio vision mixer and switching systems were also RGB?

--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <RZSdnVykJLbA2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
But pray tell of a composite video studio which had RGB available from
anything other than a single camera, etc.

You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio cameras
had RGB outputs.

I've already said that.

The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze
Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had cameras & monitors
only. Master control did every thing else. Just admit that you are
absolutely clueless about what was done, and how in a NTSC brodcast
plant.

Sorry - forgot you were talking about some one horse news studio in the
sticks.

Yawn. Moron. It was at a 5 MW EIRP UHF station. There was no news
department at that station. They didn't need one. Two studios in a new
building, in Orlando Florida. Our electric bill was $45,000 just for
the transmitter.

The studios I worked in had all the vision FX needed locally in the
studio. They were production studios.

Good for them. Too bad they had to work with an ignorant asshole
like you. Most of our production was live programming. With our 3M
master router, the equipment could be used for production or live. It
could aslo be routed to the engineering office for troubleshooting. The
3M could have some routes locked to prevent people from accidently
changing them, or trying to disrupt a broadcast. The Comark transmitter
was on from six AM Monday morning, until midnight, Monday morning,
leaving six hours for routine maintenece.


Here is a satellite photo of the transmitter site. That tower is
over 1700 feet. There is a curtain FM antenna at the 1200 foot level
with five, 50 KW FM Orlando radio stations. It also had Ch 68 before
trhey built their own tower. There are a couple dozen private radio
systems there, as well.

<http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=wacx+orange+city&fb=1&gl=us&hq=wacx&hnear=Orange+City,+FL&cid=0,0,4888499389036298809&ll=28.921368,-81.318955&spn=0.012997,0.01929&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A>

The presentation area had their own too if they wished to use such things
for programme junctions, etc.

Presentation area? That sounds like the break room at a used car
lot.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <RZSdnV-kJLZN2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I produced & directed a live newscast for a year in '73 & 74 at Ft.
Greely, AK.

Ah. News. Hence all the references to U-Matic and VHS as if they were
broadcast systems.

BZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There was no video tape equipment
at that station. If you would pay attention, or even better, if you had
red that message of mine on the DOD Afrts website you might have a
clue. Why would I be loading 16 mm & 35 mm, but not mention video tape?

You produced and directed a live newscast operation and loaded the film
yourself?

Yes. At a military TV station. It wouldn't surprise me that you
don't know they exist.

Change that one horse operation to a one donkey.

You're the donkey.

Sorry for thinking every broadcast operation would have VTR in the '70s. I
can only go by my own experience.

Good for you, but who gives a damn about your experience. That
station was scheduled to be updated when a jackass decided the GIs
didn't need TV. The equipment had been purchased, but ended up at the
AFRTS station in Iceland.


I will give you credit, though. You type very well for someone with
their head permanently up their ass.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <RZSdnVykJLbA2rPQnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio cameras
had RGB outputs. The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze
Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had cameras & monitors
only. Master control did every thing else. Just admit that you are
absolutely clueless about what was done, and how in a NTSC brodcast
plant.

So this means any studio vision mixer and switching systems were also RGB?

Can't you read?

"The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze Zoom had RGB
inputs and outputs." The pair did video mixing, framestore and special
effects. The composite output was hard routed to the 7 GHz STL from
Orlando to the transmitter in Orange City. Any tape delayed programming
was at the transmitter site, on a LaCarte system. The live feed was
monitored by the transmitter operator. and could be used at any time, if
needed.

I realize you've never seen the equipment, but your overall ignorance
is annoying. You're more like Phil with every post.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Chuck]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:14:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

I wonder just how available were the delay lines needed when NTSC was
introduced? They were quite an expensive component years later.


NTSC delay lines for TV sets were about $3 for replacments in the mid
'60s. I only saw one open delay line and one with physical damage in
40+ years. The open delay line removed the luminanve signal, leaving
only moving colored splotches on a black screen.

Delay line failure was fairly common on certain tube sets in the early
70s. Both the coil opening and, in other cases, the capacitor to
ground opening. Chuck

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <acqdncUFmPz2mbLQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio
cameras had RGB outputs. The Vital Industries video switcher and
the Squeeze Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had
cameras & monitors only. Master control did every thing else. Just
admit that you are absolutely clueless about what was done, and how
in a NTSC brodcast plant.

So this means any studio vision mixer and switching systems were also
RGB?

Can't you read?

"The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze Zoom had RGB
inputs and outputs." The pair did video mixing, framestore and special
effects.

So this device which did all the normal vision mixer duties only handled
RGB in? Just trying to get clear what you mean.

The composite output was hard routed to the 7 GHz STL from
Orlando to the transmitter in Orange City. Any tape delayed programming
was at the transmitter site, on a LaCarte system. The live feed was
monitored by the transmitter operator. and could be used at any time, if
needed.

I realize you've never seen the equipment, but your overall ignorance
is annoying. You're more like Phil with every post.

On the contrary. You seem to think the way you've experienced things to be
the only way they were done. And given it seems to have been on a much
smaller operation than I'm talking about, it's you with your head in the
sand.

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Chuck wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:14:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

I wonder just how available were the delay lines needed when NTSC was
introduced? They were quite an expensive component years later.


NTSC delay lines for TV sets were about $3 for replacments in the mid
'60s. I only saw one open delay line and one with physical damage in
40+ years. The open delay line removed the luminanve signal, leaving
only moving colored splotches on a black screen.

Delay line failure was fairly common on certain tube sets in the early
70s. Both the coil opening and, in other cases, the capacitor to
ground opening. Chuck

By then I was working in Broadcast. I'll bet those bad delay lines
were made in Mexico. The capacitor in the early lines was a strip of
copper tape on the core, then a layer of insulation before the coil was
wound. One end was soldered to the ground lug.

Some company in Mexico was using a corrosive flux and not cleaning
the coils properly. When you saw an open coil there was usually a lot of
green where the wire opened. I saw several bad yokes with that failure
mode, just before I left for the Army and heard about a lot of similar
failures from that shop but never any delay lines. They worked mostly
on Zenith, RCA and Motorola, in that order. Some GE, Philco, Admiral
and Sylvania which were about 10% of the total. I repaired stereos & a
few TVs for the other people on base, and bought most of the parts
through the shop I had worked at rather than trying to deal with
wholesalers near a military base.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <acqdncUFmPz2mbLQnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
You just keep showing more and more ignrance. All the studio
cameras had RGB outputs. The Vital Industries video switcher and
the Squeeze Zoom had RGB inputs and outputs. The studios had
cameras & monitors only. Master control did every thing else. Just
admit that you are absolutely clueless about what was done, and how
in a NTSC brodcast plant.

So this means any studio vision mixer and switching systems were also
RGB?

Can't you read?

"The Vital Industries video switcher and the Squeeze Zoom had RGB
inputs and outputs." The pair did video mixing, framestore and special
effects.

So this device which did all the normal vision mixer duties only handled
RGB in? Just trying to get clear what you mean.

Sigh. NO. It could handle anything you threw at it. The two Vital
Industries system filled a six foot rack. The Squeeze Zoom was over
$250,000 and the video mixer & effects was around $150,000.

The composite output was hard routed to the 7 GHz STL from
Orlando to the transmitter in Orange City. Any tape delayed programming
was at the transmitter site, on a LaCarte system. The live feed was
monitored by the transmitter operator. and could be used at any time, if
needed.

I realize you've never seen the equipment, but your overall ignorance
is annoying. You're more like Phil with every post.

On the contrary. You seem to think the way you've experienced things to be
the only way they were done. And given it seems to have been on a much
smaller operation than I'm talking about, it's you with your head in the
sand.

I've been trying to explain how it is done in a NTSC plant. You keep
trying to tell me it's wrong, since you've never used the equipment.
All a bigger plant means is more redundant equipment, but you insist on
pulling out a ruler and waving your dick. it was a single station, not
a network station. The only 'network' station was the AFRTS station in
Alaska and it still used mostly film, since some posts had no OTA TV, so
they had channel CATV systems or just ran the films in a small theater.
There were 12 locations in each group. Cases of film arrived in the mail
every few days. After they were run, they were mailed to the next
location, and finally back to AFRTS headquarters in Los Angeles. At one
time AFRTS was the largest network in the world. it was also the last
network to use mostly tube equipment, because a lot of their radio
stations were unmanned most of the time. Our radio station received the
Alaskan Forces Network over the 'White Alice' network. It was the
world's first Over The Horizon Microwave Relay telephone system. There
is a lot of information on line, you should read it.

You damned the station for having no video tape in the '70s. You
have no concept about how the military works. Film was reliable and
cheap. It didn't need much maintenance, or thousands of spare parts.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Chuck]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:31:12 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Chuck wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:14:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

I wonder just how available were the delay lines needed when NTSC was
introduced? They were quite an expensive component years later.


NTSC delay lines for TV sets were about $3 for replacments in the mid
'60s. I only saw one open delay line and one with physical damage in
40+ years. The open delay line removed the luminanve signal, leaving
only moving colored splotches on a black screen.

Delay line failure was fairly common on certain tube sets in the early
70s. Both the coil opening and, in other cases, the capacitor to
ground opening. Chuck


By then I was working in Broadcast. I'll bet those bad delay lines
were made in Mexico. The capacitor in the early lines was a strip of
copper tape on the core, then a layer of insulation before the coil was
wound. One end was soldered to the ground lug.

Some company in Mexico was using a corrosive flux and not cleaning
the coils properly. When you saw an open coil there was usually a lot of
green where the wire opened. I saw several bad yokes with that failure
mode, just before I left for the Army and heard about a lot of similar
failures from that shop but never any delay lines. They worked mostly
on Zenith, RCA and Motorola, in that order. Some GE, Philco, Admiral
and Sylvania which were about 10% of the total. I repaired stereos & a
few TVs for the other people on base, and bought most of the parts
through the shop I had worked at rather than trying to deal with
wholesalers near a military base.

I think you are right about the manufacture of these parts in Mexico.
In 1971 RCA had a massive failure of their tube color chassis
(CTC38?), after a few months operation , of a color band pass coil.
The symptom was a loss of color sync and the reason for it was
internal corrosion and the coil was manufactured in Mexico. Chuck