TV picture quality problems

Guest
I live in Riverside, CA (about 50 miles east of Los Angeles).

I do NOT have a cable system nor a satellite ("dish") system.

Except for small "dish"-type antennas, the condo-rules allow
"yagi"-type antennas only in the attic of each house. But, knowing how
much signal is lost by attic-installation, my Terk TV38 antenna is
laying on a flat roof (so it's not too conspicuous to the condo-board).

A coax cable runs across the roof for 15 feet, goes down 4 feet into
the attic and is connected to a Radio Shack signal amplifier. A coax
cable then goes from the amplifier, through the attic for about 30 feet
to the TV set.

Here are the channels I get:

Note: KVCR 24's tower has a compass orientation of 51 degrees and is 9
miles from my house. The towers for all of the other channels have a
compass orientation of 287 degrees and are 43 miles from my house.

Call Sign Network Channel Picture Quality *

KCBS CBS 2 F
KNBC NBC 4 G
KTLA WB 5 E
KABC ABC 7 E
KCAL IND 9 F
KTTV FOX 11 P
KCOP UPN 13 P
KVCR PBS 24 P
KCET PBS 28 F
KOCE PBS 50 E
KDOC IND 56 G
KLCS PBS 58 E

* Reception ratings:
E = excellent (crystal clear)
G = slight snow
F = moderate snow
P = can't see picture

Any suggestions on what I can do to get better reception?
 
Subscribe to cable. There is only so much you can pull out from the air,
unless you can expand your antenna system. Using more amplification will
only increase noise, if the signal is not good to begin with.

--

JANA
_____


<gcotterl@co.riverside.ca.us> wrote in message
news:1150081932.900592.110040@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I live in Riverside, CA (about 50 miles east of Los Angeles).

I do NOT have a cable system nor a satellite ("dish") system.

Except for small "dish"-type antennas, the condo-rules allow
"yagi"-type antennas only in the attic of each house. But, knowing how
much signal is lost by attic-installation, my Terk TV38 antenna is
laying on a flat roof (so it's not too conspicuous to the condo-board).

A coax cable runs across the roof for 15 feet, goes down 4 feet into
the attic and is connected to a Radio Shack signal amplifier. A coax
cable then goes from the amplifier, through the attic for about 30 feet
to the TV set.

Here are the channels I get:

Note: KVCR 24's tower has a compass orientation of 51 degrees and is 9
miles from my house. The towers for all of the other channels have a
compass orientation of 287 degrees and are 43 miles from my house.

Call Sign Network Channel Picture Quality *

KCBS CBS 2 F
KNBC NBC 4 G
KTLA WB 5 E
KABC ABC 7 E
KCAL IND 9 F
KTTV FOX 11 P
KCOP UPN 13 P
KVCR PBS 24 P
KCET PBS 28 F
KOCE PBS 50 E
KDOC IND 56 G
KLCS PBS 58 E

* Reception ratings:
E = excellent (crystal clear)
G = slight snow
F = moderate snow
P = can't see picture

Any suggestions on what I can do to get better reception?
 
gcotterl@co.riverside.ca.us wrote in news:1150081932.900592.110040
@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I live in Riverside, CA (about 50 miles east of Los Angeles).

I do NOT have a cable system nor a satellite ("dish") system.

Except for small "dish"-type antennas, the condo-rules allow
"yagi"-type antennas only in the attic of each house. But, knowing how
much signal is lost by attic-installation, my Terk TV38 antenna is
laying on a flat roof (so it's not too conspicuous to the condo-board).
Click to expand...
The antenna is too close to the roof! You need to get it up off the roof
by about 3 feet. Never mind that the roof isn't "electrically
conductive." At VHF and UHF frequencies, *all* materials degrade your
reception.

You dismiss an attic antenna without even trying it? Try it! I lived in
Encinitas CA, about 90 miles from LA, and with a yagi in my attic I
picked up Mt Wilson.

Keep all the antenna elements as far away as possible from everything
(joists, roofing, pipes, chimneys, etc.). It's easy to hang it from the
rafters with rope. And much easier to bring the downlead into your
living space.
 
Hi Jim,

The Terk TV38 is a Large Uni-Directional HDTV Antenna measuring 149.75"
L x 111" W x 31.5"H.

Since my "attic" is really only a crawl-space -- about 4 feet between
ceiling and roof -- how can I "keep all the antenna elements as far
away as possible from everything (joists, roofing, pipes, chimneys,
etc)"?

Would the attic be significantly better than the flat-on-the-roof
location?

Would the picture quality for all of the channels improve by getting a
different antenna? Any recommendations?

Gary
 
gcotterl@co.riverside.ca.us wrote in news:1150131720.702983.157190
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

The Terk TV38 is a Large Uni-Directional HDTV Antenna measuring 149.75"
L x 111" W x 31.5"H.

Since my "attic" is really only a crawl-space -- about 4 feet between
ceiling and roof -- how can I "keep all the antenna elements as far
away as possible from everything (joists, roofing, pipes, chimneys,
etc)"?
Click to expand...
Holy cow! I had no idea your antenna was such a monster. Forget what I
said about putting it in your attic--it won't fit. (My attic antenna was
a yagi, only a few inches high, that would fit your attic too.)

You might try (temporarily) raising your Terk antenna off the roof by a
few feet and swinging it around a bit, looking for max signal. That will
give you some info about how much signal you have to work with at your
location.
 
Hi Jim,

The Terk antenna was originally on a 3-foot-tall mast on a tripod,
making the main boom about 5 feet above the flat roof. To
partially-comply with the condo-board's order, the antenna is now
laying on the roof (one end is supported so the main boom is
horizontal). I've run new coax from the antenna to the amplifier to
the TV set and all of the connections are good.

I have rotated the antenna thru all 360 degrees! I even used a compass
to point the antenna at Mt. Wilson. In both cases, the picture quality
didn't improve.


Any ideas?

Gary
 
gcotterl@co.riverside.ca.us wrote:
Hi Jim,

The Terk antenna was originally on a 3-foot-tall mast on a tripod,
making the main boom about 5 feet above the flat roof. To
partially-comply with the condo-board's order, the antenna is now
laying on the roof (one end is supported so the main boom is
horizontal). I've run new coax from the antenna to the amplifier to
the TV set and all of the connections are good.

I have rotated the antenna thru all 360 degrees! I even used a compass
to point the antenna at Mt. Wilson. In both cases, the picture quality
didn't improve.


Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Hi Gary...

Couple of thoughts from a real old retired guy (who put up antennas
way way way before cable was even thought of) if I may?

If you're truly rotating the durned thing 360 degrees with little
or no effect, then there's something really wrong :)

Check your wiring/cabling. You have used a balun between the
antenna terminals and the coax, right?

Being a flat roof, does it have a little wall around the edge?
Perhaps with metal flashing? If so, you need to raise your
antenna at least higher than that wall.

You mentioned that you have it propped to horizontal. You don't
want it "bubble level" horizontal, but rather horizontal to either
the horizon or to the top of the mountain, whichever comes first.

Once you work that out, you might want to experiment with height.
Often a change in elevation of mere inches makes a collosal
difference. Worth a try.

One more thing while I have you. If you've been forbidden to
put it there, and you do anyway, but do it improperly or
incompletely (no adequate ground, for instance) you may well
be opening yourself up to a whole boatload of trouble should
something go wrong. For instance a lightning strike causing fire,
or heaven forbid injuring people. Just something to consider.

I'm Canadian, and don't know American laws, much less California
laws, but maybe you have something similar. We used to have
(still have in real real isolated areas where cable doesn't
exist) community antenna systems. A whole apartment building,
or row of town houses, or whatever would have one antenna,
a distribution system, and each unit would share in the cost
of setting it up, insuring it, and maintaining it. Perhaps
you have something similar available to you.

Take care.

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

The main boom of the antenna is "bubble-level" horizontal. My house is
about 850 feet above sea level and the broadcast towers are 6,000 feet
above sea level on Mt. Wilson which is about 45 miles away. How do I
know how much to angle the antenna?

Yes, I have the balun connects the antenna terrminals and the coax.
(In fact, the balun that came with the antenna was bad so Terk sent me
a new one).

There is no "wall" (little or big; with or without metal flashing)
around the roof-edge. However, there are a few PVC and metal air-vents
(about 1 foot tall) within 10 feet of the antenna.

The coax cable goes from the antenna, down one of the air vents, runs
through the attic/crawl-space for about 40 feet then drops down to the
TV set.

============

Right now, the top elements of the antenna are just barely visible
above the perimeter of the roof. I really can't raise the antenna
(even a few inches) because the condo-rules forbid any antennas from
being on or mounted to common-area property (including roofs). Since I
have no other location on my unit to put my antenna, I figure that, if
the condo-board can't see the antenna, they won't know it's there.


Gary
 
gcotterl@co.riverside.ca.us wrote:

Hi Ken,

The main boom of the antenna is "bubble-level" horizontal. My house is
about 850 feet above sea level and the broadcast towers are 6,000 feet
above sea level on Mt. Wilson which is about 45 miles away. How do I
know how much to angle the antenna?

Yes, I have the balun connects the antenna terrminals and the coax.
(In fact, the balun that came with the antenna was bad so Terk sent me
a new one).

There is no "wall" (little or big; with or without metal flashing)
around the roof-edge. However, there are a few PVC and metal air-vents
(about 1 foot tall) within 10 feet of the antenna.

The coax cable goes from the antenna, down one of the air vents, runs
through the attic/crawl-space for about 40 feet then drops down to the
TV set.

============

Right now, the top elements of the antenna are just barely visible
above the perimeter of the roof. I really can't raise the antenna
(even a few inches) because the condo-rules forbid any antennas from
being on or mounted to common-area property (including roofs). Since I
have no other location on my unit to put my antenna, I figure that, if
the condo-board can't see the antenna, they won't know it's there.
Click to expand...
Hi...

The top of your mountain is pretty close to 1 mile higher than
your location. The curvature of the earth is about 8 inches per
mile. So, you have pretty close to 30 feet left to make up to
get yourself line of sight.

In other words, bubble level at your location is very wrong, you
have to raise the director (the shortest bars, pointed to the
station) end of the antenna considerably. I leave it to you to
find out how much, but a suggestion would be to either temporarily
run an AC cord up there, or get a hold of a battery operated set,
hook it up on the roof, and watch it while manipulating the antenna.

Or, another way might be to get a pair of walkie-talkies, and
while you on the roof play with the antenna someone else in your
apartment "guides" you with the walkie talkies.

Take care.

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

Into a right-triangle calculator, I entered "237600" feet (i.e., 47
miles) for the "base", "5150" feet (i.e., 6,000 ft minus 850 ft) for a
"leg" and "90" degrees for the angle. It computed an inclination angle
of 1.19 degrees. (This is NOT taking into account the curvature of the
earth).

I don't understand your "you have pretty close to 30 feet left to make
up to get yourself line of sight" comment.

Rather than using a compass to measure 1.19 degrees, I will try using a
portable TV on the roof or a walkie-talkie.

Thanks, Gary
 
Ken Weitzel <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in news:somjg.14181$IK3.9766
@pd7tw1no:

In other words, bubble level at your location is very wrong, you
have to raise the director (the shortest bars, pointed to the
station) end of the antenna considerably. I leave it to you to
find out how much, but a suggestion would be to either temporarily
run an AC cord up there, or get a hold of a battery operated set,
hook it up on the roof, and watch it while manipulating the antenna.
Click to expand...
I second Ken's suggestion of taking a small tv set up on the roof. And I
agree that, from your location, the transmitting antennas on Mr. Wilson
are *above* the horizon. In other words, you have line-of-sight contact
between your antenna and the transmitters. (Unless you are tucked behind
a hill or something.) At 45 miles, line-of-sight, you should have darn
good tv reception.

When the air is clear (and I know this is hypothetical, considering air
quality between LA and Riverside) I bet you can *see* Mt. Wilson with
binoculars. That's the direction you want to aim your antenna.
 
Hi Jim,

My options are:

1) Use binoculars. (Maybe the air will be clean enough in December to
see Mt Wilson from my house

or

2) Use a portable TV or walkie-talkies.

Hmmm.

Gary
 
Hi Jim,

My options are:

1) Use binoculars. (Maybe the air will be clean enough in December to
see Mt Wilson from my house)

or

2) Use a portable TV or walkie-talkies.

Dont' rush me; I'm thinking!

Thanks,

Gary
 
You might try a mast mounted amp. The old adage "you don't pull the
signal, you push it" should hold true. Since it is unlikely the you can
run power up there, you need a coax powered unit. Many of them are. As
far as I know there are no real requirements for an ATSC amp, other
than to amplify 50-900 Mhz. If Terk doesn't have one maybe try Channel
Master.

Even if you took your present amp and determined the internal DC
requirement you could send the DC through the coax. You shouldn't even
have to build anything, between power pass and power block coax filters
you should have no problem setting it up.

JURB
 
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