J
Jacek Mocki
Guest
Does anyone know some examples of using CPLD or FPGA devices in railways equipment?
Regards
Jacek
Regards
Jacek
A
Austin Lesea
Guest
Jacek,
Yes we have FPGAs that have been used in railway equipment.
The problem is the sometimes close to ten year qualification process*
for railway equipment, which means by the time it is qualified for use,
the parts are well into their obsolesence.
If you have such an application, you should contact a Xilinx FAE, and
discuss the best choice of product with them (one that we expect will be
around for another > 20 years like the 2K has been, and the 3K will have
been).
As always, if any of our products are used in an application where human
life despends on the perfect functioning, see the very serious legal
stuff at:
http://www.xilinx.com/legal.htm
For example, we heard that a manufacturer wants to use an FPGA in a
nuclear reactor control system. That certainly gets our attention, as
we insisted that the design be done in such a way that is consistent
with the application (ie fully TMR, dual redundant, hot standby, etc etc
etc).
*(based on what I've heard about a certain railway equipment supplier)
Austin
Jacek Mocki wrote:
Yes we have FPGAs that have been used in railway equipment.
The problem is the sometimes close to ten year qualification process*
for railway equipment, which means by the time it is qualified for use,
the parts are well into their obsolesence.
If you have such an application, you should contact a Xilinx FAE, and
discuss the best choice of product with them (one that we expect will be
around for another > 20 years like the 2K has been, and the 3K will have
been).
As always, if any of our products are used in an application where human
life despends on the perfect functioning, see the very serious legal
stuff at:
http://www.xilinx.com/legal.htm
For example, we heard that a manufacturer wants to use an FPGA in a
nuclear reactor control system. That certainly gets our attention, as
we insisted that the design be done in such a way that is consistent
with the application (ie fully TMR, dual redundant, hot standby, etc etc
etc).
*(based on what I've heard about a certain railway equipment supplier)
Austin
Jacek Mocki wrote:
P
Paul E. Bennett
Guest
In article <c6anq7$7r$1@news.onet.pl>
jacekmocki@poczta.onet.pl "Jacek Mocki" writes:
system. Normalair Garret IIRC. Can't be too certain as I only ever
had a very brief glimpse.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://peb@amleth.demon.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 .........NOW AVAILABLE:- HIDECS COURSE......
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095 .... see http://www.feabhas.com for details.
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
jacekmocki@poczta.onet.pl "Jacek Mocki" writes:
Yes. I think it was a Xilinx FPGA in a trainboard air conditioning
system. Normalair Garret IIRC. Can't be too certain as I only ever
had a very brief glimpse.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://peb@amleth.demon.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 .........NOW AVAILABLE:- HIDECS COURSE......
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095 .... see http://www.feabhas.com for details.
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
S
Simon Peacock
Guest
Austin is right.. you need to contact them.. and any existing design in is
probably of little consequence as parts evolve so quickly that its like the
space shuttle.. all 1970's design and 30 years out of date
There are so many issues involved (I had a look for my company once) that a
lot of it is suck it and see... start with the specs. Find out which of
the international specs (e.g. EN60950, ETSI, UL etc) you are designing to.
Develop the concepts ... psu ... grounding etc. Work out what you want to
do and how big an FPGA is required... do you want / need redundancy?
Redundancy should have two different designers working in isolation to be
truly redundant... do you need in circuit programming? Resets , Special IO
etc... then contact suppliers.... they can be very helpful if you have lots
of ideas... (and if you don't too) but you have to know what questions to
ask first.
Just the voltage tolerance on the PSU itself can be a design challenge.
Simon
"Austin Lesea" <austin@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:c6bbb4$5691@cliff.xsj.xilinx.com...
probably of little consequence as parts evolve so quickly that its like the
space shuttle.. all 1970's design and 30 years out of date
There are so many issues involved (I had a look for my company once) that a
lot of it is suck it and see... start with the specs. Find out which of
the international specs (e.g. EN60950, ETSI, UL etc) you are designing to.
Develop the concepts ... psu ... grounding etc. Work out what you want to
do and how big an FPGA is required... do you want / need redundancy?
Redundancy should have two different designers working in isolation to be
truly redundant... do you need in circuit programming? Resets , Special IO
etc... then contact suppliers.... they can be very helpful if you have lots
of ideas... (and if you don't too) but you have to know what questions to
ask first.
Just the voltage tolerance on the PSU itself can be a design challenge.
Simon
"Austin Lesea" <austin@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:c6bbb4$5691@cliff.xsj.xilinx.com...
J
Jim Granville
Guest
Austin Lesea wrote:
level average, in a nuclear reactor control system ?
And might it not (hypothetically of course) peak somewhat higher, just
when it is rather important that said control system is operating ?
Did this enquiry perhaps arrive on April 1st ?
-jg
Errrm - won't the neutron/radiation count be just a tad above a sea
level average, in a nuclear reactor control system ?
And might it not (hypothetically of course) peak somewhat higher, just
when it is rather important that said control system is operating ?
Did this enquiry perhaps arrive on April 1st ?
-jg
N
Narcis Nadal
Guest
Yes, we have recently designed and produced here in Catalonia some 192x64
LED displays with 16 gray levels EN 50155 compliant for the TGV
Barcelona-Madrid. Those displays have a Xilinx XCS05 industrial grade as a
coprocessor.
Regards
Narcis Nadal
"Jacek Mocki" <jacekmocki@poczta.onet.pl> escribió en el mensaje
news:c6anq7$7r$1@news.onet.pl...
Does anyone know some examples of using CPLD or FPGA devices in railways
equipment?
Regards
Jacek
LED displays with 16 gray levels EN 50155 compliant for the TGV
Barcelona-Madrid. Those displays have a Xilinx XCS05 industrial grade as a
coprocessor.
Regards
Narcis Nadal
"Jacek Mocki" <jacekmocki@poczta.onet.pl> escribió en el mensaje
news:c6anq7$7r$1@news.onet.pl...
Does anyone know some examples of using CPLD or FPGA devices in railways
equipment?
Regards
Jacek
J
john jakson
Guest
"Narcis Nadal" <nnadal@terra.es> wrote in message news:<unLic.4700406$uj6.16108118@telenews.teleline.es>...
This reminds me, in the UK 80s, BR wanted to run high speed service
with trains that tilted into the curve as speed required for the ever
so old curvy track they didn't want to replace. I remember the tilted
trains coming out of the curves locked up and lurching into the
opposing track causing much embarrassment to their EEs.
What was the outcome, did they get it to work or did they settle for
slow trains as usual? This was ofcourse way before FPGA, I expect the
controller was TTL+8080s.
regards
johnjakson_usa_com
This reminds me, in the UK 80s, BR wanted to run high speed service
with trains that tilted into the curve as speed required for the ever
so old curvy track they didn't want to replace. I remember the tilted
trains coming out of the curves locked up and lurching into the
opposing track causing much embarrassment to their EEs.
What was the outcome, did they get it to work or did they settle for
slow trains as usual? This was ofcourse way before FPGA, I expect the
controller was TTL+8080s.
regards
johnjakson_usa_com
S
Symon
Guest
Jon,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3549809.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3315197.stm
Cheers, Syms.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3549809.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3315197.stm
Cheers, Syms.
P
Peter Alfke
Guest
The Swedes have had such tilting trains (S2000) for many years. I have taken
it from Gothenburg to Stockholm 4 years ago, and the Italians have had them
so early that they coined the name Pendolino. The Germans tried it with
limited success.
It provides high speed on an old-fashioned rail bed.
Peter Alfke
========================
it from Gothenburg to Stockholm 4 years ago, and the Italians have had them
so early that they coined the name Pendolino. The Germans tried it with
limited success.
It provides high speed on an old-fashioned rail bed.
Peter Alfke
========================
H
Hal Murray
Guest
Why do I want tilting trains? Why not bank the tracks more?
Is the problem something like a tight radius of curvature
such that a long train would get pulled off the track as
it went around the curve? (Maybe a long slow freight runs on
the same tracks.)
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paris
Guest
"Narcis Nadal" <nnadal@terra.es> escribió en el mensaje
news:unLic.4700406$uj6.16108118@telenews.teleline.es...
wasnt TGV a French train?
i thought in Spain you had AVE or something
news:unLic.4700406$uj6.16108118@telenews.teleline.es...
did you mean "intensity" levels?
wasnt TGV a French train?
i thought in Spain you had AVE or something
A
Allan Herriman
Guest
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:44:04 -0500, hmurray@suespammers.org (Hal
Murray) wrote:
(Telephone system analogy: we put expensive modems (ADSL, etc.) on the
end of old twisted pair lines, since it's really expensive to replace
the stuff that's already in the ground.)
Regards,
Allan.
Murray) wrote:
Legacy tracks do not have the appropriate bank.
(Telephone system analogy: we put expensive modems (ADSL, etc.) on the
end of old twisted pair lines, since it's really expensive to replace
the stuff that's already in the ground.)
Regards,
Allan.
U
Uwe Bonnes
Guest
Hal Murray <hmurray@suespammers.org> wrote:
: > It provides high speed on an old-fashioned rail bed.
: Why do I want tilting trains? Why not bank the tracks more?
Because then, when an emergency braking has to be exercised, the train would
fall over...
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Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
: > It provides high speed on an old-fashioned rail bed.
: Why do I want tilting trains? Why not bank the tracks more?
Because then, when an emergency braking has to be exercised, the train would
fall over...
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
J
john jakson
Guest
Uwe Bonnes <bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message news:<c6l7o4$mru$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>...
everything:-/
I believe the newer French track laid down for their highspeed is
gently banked and with large turning space, well I've only seen tv
snips in the countryside. I guess in UK (I left 20yrs ago) most of the
track is in densely populated areas, too late to do anything about it.
Perhaps the only place to put any new service would be near/over the
motorway.
regards
johnjakson_usa_com
Thanks Symon, things have changed so much that Virgin seems to run
everything:-/
I believe the newer French track laid down for their highspeed is
gently banked and with large turning space, well I've only seen tv
snips in the countryside. I guess in UK (I left 20yrs ago) most of the
track is in densely populated areas, too late to do anything about it.
Perhaps the only place to put any new service would be near/over the
motorway.
regards
johnjakson_usa_com
P
Peter Alfke
Guest
The Swedish S2000 tilting train is not pulled by a locomotive. It has
electric motors driving every single car.
The main reason for tilting is passenger comfort. The problem is that there
must be enough room between the rail pairs for two trains to meet.
The French and Japanese laid new tracks for their TGV and Shinkansen trains,
and the Germans did it in some places (Cologne-Frankfurt), but Sweden is a
large country with relatively few people, so the economics are different
Peter Alfke (likes to ride European trains...).
==============
electric motors driving every single car.
The main reason for tilting is passenger comfort. The problem is that there
must be enough room between the rail pairs for two trains to meet.
The French and Japanese laid new tracks for their TGV and Shinkansen trains,
and the Germans did it in some places (Cologne-Frankfurt), but Sweden is a
large country with relatively few people, so the economics are different
Peter Alfke (likes to ride European trains...).
==============
J
Jonathan Bromley
Guest
On 27 Apr 2004 08:06:31 -0700, johnjakson@yahoo.com
(john jakson) wrote:
with solid concrete track-bed. Not cheap. The usual UK legacy
track (wooden sleepers, a few tons of dirty stone chippings for
ballast) wouldn't be a lot of use.
A few years ago I read a French newspaper article suggesting
that the TGVs have lots of power available from the overhead
rail, and therefore slopes are much less of a problem than
they were for traditional trains. But curves would dramatically
limit the speed - you can't bank a railway curve very much,
because you have to cope with the possibility of a stationary
train on the banked section Presumably the same thing
applies to VERTICAL curves - you don't want the train, or
its passengers, experiencing large local variations in 'g'.
badly out of fashion and suffering a serious image problem.
carriageway to 5 or 6 lanes each way? No hope.
(Seriously - UK motorways often have curves that would be
far too severe for TGV-class trains.)
--
Jonathan Bromley, Consultant
DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how
VHDL, Verilog, SystemC, Perl, Tcl/Tk, Verification, Project Services
Doulos Ltd. Church Hatch, 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1425 471223 mail:jonathan.bromley@doulos.com
Fax: +44 (0)1425 471573 Web: http://www.doulos.com
The contents of this message may contain personal views which
are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.
(john jakson) wrote:
TGVs run at full speed only on specially-laid, dedicated tracks
with solid concrete track-bed. Not cheap. The usual UK legacy
track (wooden sleepers, a few tons of dirty stone chippings for
ballast) wouldn't be a lot of use.
A few years ago I read a French newspaper article suggesting
that the TGVs have lots of power available from the overhead
rail, and therefore slopes are much less of a problem than
they were for traditional trains. But curves would dramatically
limit the speed - you can't bank a railway curve very much,
because you have to cope with the possibility of a stationary
train on the banked section
Presumably the same thingapplies to VERTICAL curves - you don't want the train, or
its passengers, experiencing large local variations in 'g'.
Too late, too little will, land prices too high, railways
badly out of fashion and suffering a serious image problem.
And spoil the motoring lobby's God-given right to extend the
carriageway to 5 or 6 lanes each way? No hope.
(Seriously - UK motorways often have curves that would be
far too severe for TGV-class trains.)
--
Jonathan Bromley, Consultant
DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how
VHDL, Verilog, SystemC, Perl, Tcl/Tk, Verification, Project Services
Doulos Ltd. Church Hatch, 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1425 471223 mail:jonathan.bromley@doulos.com
Fax: +44 (0)1425 471573 Web: http://www.doulos.com
The contents of this message may contain personal views which
are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.
S
Symon
Guest
I heard that the French have a much more 'robust' compulsary purchase scheme
than other countries, i.e. Draw a straight line on the map between Paris to
Lyons and that's where the railway's gonna go! Interesting idea about the
Motorways, here in San Jose I go along Hwy 85 to work, (right past the
Xilinx campus, as it happens, so I'm still on topic ;-)) which is a fairly
new road. There's a light rail system along the central reservation (=Median
for US readers!) for a fair part of the journey. No-one uses it, of course.
No point in owning a Hummer and leaving it at home....
Jonathan's right about economics of new track in the UK. In order to do
anything, you have to tunnel. Check out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2223468.stm The good thing about this is
that French passengers will now arrive at St.Pancras. If you're French, I
guess that's much better than terminating at Waterloo!
cheers, Syms.
S
Symon
Guest
Here's a better link about the tunneling under London.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2225861.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2225861.stm
K
krw
Guest
In article <c6m7ud$dm6n5$1@ID-212844.news.uni-berlin.de>,
symon_brewer@hotmail.com says...
--
Keith
symon_brewer@hotmail.com says...
--
Keith
H
Hal Murray
Guest
I assumed they would have to fixup the tracks in order to
make them good enough to go fast so it would be reasonable to
fix the bank at the same time.
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The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
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