Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Eeyore]

Spurious Response wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

Graham

 

[Wolfi]

Am 03.07.07 19.42 schrieb Spurious Response:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?


If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

Because initially we had been talking about wall outlets and according plugs,
with flat (US, UK) or round (most of Central Europe) contacts and those
connectors are rated 15A/130V (US) or 16A/250V (Europe).
So when talking about alternatives, we have to stay in the same ratings range.

 

[Wolfi]

Am 03.07.07 19.40 schrieb Spurious Response:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

All three pins on the other end of an IEC power cord are flat blades.
You're talking about this IEC (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309) power
connector, rated from 16A up to 250A @690VAC? ;-)
But it also uses round pins, not flat ones.


No, silly. He was talking about the STANDARD US 120V IEC cord used on
nearly everything made these days, from dongles to 70" FPDs.

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=IEC320ModularPowerCordsAndPlugs.htm&ID=346

Ah, that's what I reckoned, cords with the *international* standard socket
type IEC 60320-C13 /max. 70°C/10A (and -C15 /max. 120°C/10A or max. 155°C/16A).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker

And there is also our famous Euro socket for small devices according to
protection class II, the type IEC-60320-C7, which normally is the device sided
end of the 2.5A Euro wall plug we had discussed earlier on.

But they all have in common, that they provide excellent user protection
against touching of live parts *and* they all plug mechanically *into* the
counterpart with their housing, hence guiding mechanically stress away from
the contacts and into the housing.

 

[Spurious Response]

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:31:10 GMT, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Spurious Response wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

Graham

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.

 

[Eeyore]

Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.

It's widely used in Europe.

Graham

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Spurious Response wrote:

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

For example, my 7.5 amp 230v Dyson DC-14 vaccum cleaner. The 120 volt
version draws about 15 amps.

Surprisingly, my Kenwood mixer uses 1000w (and there is a 1200w
version). which is around 5 amps at 230 volts, and would be over 10 at
120. However, it seems that such a mixer is not available in the U.S.

The Kenwood mixers sold in the U.S. are their smaller 600 watt units,
and the much loved Kitchen Aid units are 350 watts, with one that's
500w.

I seem to remember having a 12 amp or so toaster and hot water kettle in
the U.S. Ours here are 1000 watts. Things like blenders are 300 to 400
watts, which would work with a 6 or 7 amp fuse, assuming the wattage
rating is average and not peak.

A friend of mine has an HP laser printer that is rated 500 watts, but
the peak draw is 8 amps at 120 volts. The manual and printer itself say
500 watts, the 8 amps was on the web site.

I would not be very happy to use a device with an 8 amp peak draw on a
10 amp circuit. But I'm unusual in that. I always assume that
manufacturers lie (inflate output power, but ignore peak usage) when
they state current requirments and that anything that provides current
is rated for that current for a peak of a few miliseconds or less.

This is very common for transformers (which many people use here to operate
120 volt appliances brought in to avoid high taxes and huge markups) and
UPS's for computers, both of which are sold as being rated in WATTS,
but really are rated in VA which are 1.414 times as much.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <slrnf8mmf7.v3o.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

For example, my 7.5 amp 230v Dyson DC-14 vaccum cleaner. The 120 volt
version draws about 15 amps.

That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or is
that the start up current?

I seem to remember having a 12 amp or so toaster and hot water kettle in
the U.S. Ours here are 1000 watts.

A 1000 watt kettle would take forever to boil. UK ones are normally
2500/3000 watts.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or is
that the start up current?

Yes, it's really that large. Dyson is a well known English brand, look it up.
The exact model is DC-14 animal.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <slrnf8mtrm.338.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

That would suggest an approx 2.5 HP motor. Is it really that large, or
is that the start up current?

Yes, it's really that large. Dyson is a well known English brand, look
it up. The exact model is DC-14 animal.

I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.

Not only is it the best engineered appliance I've ever owned, it's
the best vaccum cleaner I've ever owned. Dyson's design was so
good that Hoover stole it and was sucesfully prosecuted for
patent infringment.

It works well, and my totaly nontechnical wife can field strip it
if it gets jammed, which is almost impossible.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <slrnf8n8lt.66p.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

I know what they are having fixed several. And seen many more on the
council tip. A triumph of hype over common sense.

Not only is it the best engineered appliance I've ever owned, it's
the best vaccum cleaner I've ever owned. Dyson's design was so
good that Hoover stole it and was sucesfully prosecuted for
patent infringment.

It works well, and my totaly nontechnical wife can field strip it
if it gets jammed, which is almost impossible.

They also have racks of spares on sale in near any store. No other vacuum
cleaner I know of breaks down so often.

A triumph of hype over engineering.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Yappinwolf]

We didn't do that....

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

That was other kids...

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... yeah....

That was other kids....

-YW-

 

[Spurious Response]

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:35:47 GMT, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.

It's widely used in Europe.

Graham

Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:32:33 +0000 (UTC), bz
bz+spr@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:

jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:4qfii.10674$s8.8793@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

bz wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:

In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.

These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.



If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.

The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.

The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.

I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.



Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.

Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....

Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we bought
and are renting out. It was built in the late 40's and expanded several
times, some grounded outlets were installed but grounds were missing on
several. Older parts of the house are on an aux breaker box.

Figuring out what fed what was fun.

Why don't houses come with schematics?

John

A lot of electricians can't read or write very well? Several times I
was called to straighten out wiring they couldn't figure out. For
instance, five overhead wires between a house and a garage, all solid
black plastic. Neutral, two Line connections, and a three way, outdoor
light with switches in the house and garage. They were dropped to
install vinyl siding, then they couldn't figure out how to reconnect the
wires. The sad part was the insulators were in a straight line at each
end, and none of the wires crossed another so it was obvious what was
wrong.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

bz wrote:

Figuring out what fed what was fun.

Try figuring out where 50+ pairs of audio cables go on a large school
intercom system, after some idiot kid rips all the wires loose, AND
removes the tags. It took two full 8 hr days.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Wolfi wrote:

Or should you mean that type, which is used for computer monitors and -power
supplies?

That is the IEC connector. It allows different cords to be used with
the same equipment in multiple countries.

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

Have you ever had a desktop computer OR monitor that drew 3.68 KW?
They were designed for exactly what they are used for: Portable, low
power equipment.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Eeyore]

Spurious Response wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Spurious Response wrote:
Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

If I do not need 16 A power feeds as a result of not having any 16 A
power requisites, then why would I need a 16 A cord and receptacle
system?

The standards aren't set around one person's requirements.

"I" was a euphemistic "I", idiot.

As in I that represents any joe sixpack homeowner.

One does not need 16 Amp per outlet capacity.

It's widely used in Europe.


Where, at twice the voltage, you need it even less.

There's plenty of 3kW equipment here.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Wolfi wrote:

Or should you mean that type, which is used for computer monitors and -power
supplies?

That is the IEC connector. It allows different cords to be used with
the same equipment in multiple countries.

If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?

Have you ever had a desktop computer OR monitor that drew 3.68 KW?
They were designed for exactly what they are used for: Portable, low
power equipment.

They're used on highish power equipment as well..

There's a 15A version too btw.

Graham

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Wolfi wrote:

Am 02.07.07 21.35 schrieb John Larkin:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:07:39 -0700, Spurious Response
SpuriousResponse@cleansignal.org> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:

2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.

What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?


If it's bent so much that it's hard to plug in, just bend it back. No
big deal.

Oh yes, it easily becomes a big deal as in case of an electric floor heater.
Some moron in the past had moved it around so violently while being plugged
in, that both contacts had been bent to at least 45° off direction befor it
came out of the socket and when I tried to put them straight again, one of
them broke off. I had quite a hard time to find a screw on replacement plug.

Would you rather the plug held, and damaged the cable, so it caught on
fire when you tried to use it? It did what it was supposed to do.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Spurious Response]

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:29:02 +0000 (UTC), gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S.
Mendelson) wrote:

This is very common for transformers (which many people use here to operate
120 volt appliances brought in to avoid high taxes and huge markups) and
UPS's for computers, both of which are sold as being rated in WATTS,
but really are rated in VA which are 1.414 times as much.

VARS?

The transformer and the UPS are VA rated and declared devices. The
computer power supply is declared in Watts here and it is correct. If
all the outputs are loaded as rated, the input power requisite will be as
declared.

The rating on a PC power supply is its OUTPUT side DC power rating. The
amount required to make a 500 Watt DC personal computer supply put out
500 Watts will always be greater than 500 Watts on the AC Line side of
the supply. That is usually declared as well, however, and it is usually
correct from what I have seen.