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2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.
Yes. Thick, flat blades. Leaning toward square even, but not quite so.On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr
wrote:
I can't comment on that, since I don't have reliable data, but simply asked,
what about the other plain? And it also is much easier to have a slotted pipe
type receptacle, with a steel tape spring surrounding it to guarantee,
constant, long-term contact pressure for a round, mechanically sound, 5mm pin,
which gives solid, equal contact all around its circumference.
I think it has a good reason that the later added third ground pin for the US
system isn't of flat spade shape anymore, but strangely a round one now with,
who would have thought it, 5mm like in the Schuko system as well ;-)
All three pins on the other end of an IEC power cord are flat blades.
John
Ever see "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation"?On 2 Jul, 03:59, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
lethal. Chewing on cords, especially by pets, is a more serious
hazard, and 240 is a lot worse than 120 there.
Dont think I've ever seen pet chewed cords here, maybe different
checmicals get used in the plastic or something.
240 is more lethal, though either is enough if they get a good chomp.120 0r 240 would kill either way.
But when, in the hands of a lay person, does things stay within spec?What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:
2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.
What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?
Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we boughtbz wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:
In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.
These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.
If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.
The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.
The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.
I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.
Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.
Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....
Why don't houses come with schematics?jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:4qfii.10674$s8.8793@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
bz wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:
In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.
These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.
If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.
The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.
The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.
I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.
Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.
Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....
Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we bought
and are renting out. It was built in the late 40's and expanded several
times, some grounded outlets were installed but grounds were missing on
several. Older parts of the house are on an aux breaker box.
Figuring out what fed what was fun.
grounded circuits are home-runs from the breaker box, with new cable andjakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:4qfii.10674$s8.8793@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
bz wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:
In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.
These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.
If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.
The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.
The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.
I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.
Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.
Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....
Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we bought
and are renting out. It was built in the late 40's and expanded several
times, some grounded outlets were installed but grounds were missing on
several. Older parts of the house are on an aux breaker box.
Figuring out what fed what was fun.
That's why I just replace the two-prongers as they wear out. New
Round pin systems did not consistently have good contact arrangement,In article <1183386092.754391.278...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
Who cares? I unplug and plug in items that are turned on all the time,
worst case you get a little spark, it doesn't cause any problems. It's
not hot enough to pit the plug prongs or contacts.
Its well known that repeated small sparks make a total mess of the
contact surface. This was one of the problems of our olf round pin
system half a century ago.
You'd have to explain that. Most of the old round pin sockets were
switched - unswitched was a short lived fashion with 13 amp stuff. At
least in my experience.
The old round pin sockets were far more likely to be overloaded, though.
I'd say it depended on the quality of the fitting - given most plug/socketOn 2 Jul, 16:45, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <1183386092.754391.278...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
Who cares? I unplug and plug in items that are turned on all the
time, worst case you get a little spark, it doesn't cause any
problems. It's not hot enough to pit the plug prongs or contacts.
Its well known that repeated small sparks make a total mess of the
contact surface. This was one of the problems of our olf round pin
system half a century ago.
You'd have to explain that. Most of the old round pin sockets were
switched - unswitched was a short lived fashion with 13 amp stuff. At
least in my experience.
The old round pin sockets were far more likely to be overloaded,
though.
Round pin systems did not consistently have good contact arrangement,
leading to frequent bad connections between plug & socket, producing
the same type of damage as occurs with unswitched sockets.
--
Flat plugs came about because of Thomas Edison. He hated Tesla andRound pin systems did not consistently have good contact arrangement,
leading to frequent bad connections between plug & socket, producing
the same type of damage as occurs with unswitched sockets.
You're talking about this IEC (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309) powerOn Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:49:20 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr
wrote:
I can't comment on that, since I don't have reliable data, but simply asked,
what about the other plain? And it also is much easier to have a slotted pipe
type receptacle, with a steel tape spring surrounding it to guarantee,
constant, long-term contact pressure for a round, mechanically sound, 5mm pin,
which gives solid, equal contact all around its circumference.
I think it has a good reason that the later added third ground pin for the US
system isn't of flat spade shape anymore, but strangely a round one now with,
who would have thought it, 5mm like in the Schuko system as well ;-)
All three pins on the other end of an IEC power cord are flat blades.
Or should you mean that type, which is used for computer monitors and -powerJohn
Yes. Thick, flat blades. Leaning toward square even, but not quite so.
That's not required at all, but all those connector standards, Schuko, Euro,The main reason is that the designers of that chassis end (entry
module) of that chassis connector system wanted large, round nosed
pyramidal points on those strong, flat blades so they could act as good,
repeatable "lead-ins" for the "otherwise only held in by the rubber
squeeze" connector. Also, flat blades do maintain larger swept area of
contact (and therefore safer current carrying capacity) longer than pins
and sleeves after repeated disconnect reconnect cycles. That plug design
was meant for molded on plug assemblies.
Jeez, just think of how huge some strain relieved, metallic, heavy duty
device would be on the back of all our gear over the years.
Well, it must have some reason that the international standard 230 V householdThat was one more benefit of the flat bladed design, was narrower
overall plug size for any given ampacity and voltage compared to what
would have been required for round pins.
I don't know. Apparently those specs are either missing completely on thoseOn Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:
2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.
What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?
Some moron in the past had moved it around so violently while being pluggedOn Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:07:39 -0700, Spurious Response
SpuriousResponse@cleansignal.org> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:30 -0500, Wolfi <publicalfa-ng@yahoo.fr> wrote:
2 and 3 prong plugs and
receptacles not having strain relief... they don't need it. If one
remains within the specs for their use, the outlet/plug combo never sees
any particularly high mechanical stresses placed on it.
Having seen plenty of badly bent contact blades on vacuum, TV set, computer &
monitor, power drill and other shop devices' power cords, I strongly disagree.
What part of "if one remains within the specs for their use..." do you
not understand?
If it's bent so much that it's hard to plug in, just bend it back. No
big deal.
Oh yes, it easily becomes a big deal as in case of an electric floor heater.
The number of complete dopes that ignore the "No User Serviceable PartsOn Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:32:33 +0000 (UTC), bz
bz+spr@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:4qfii.10674$s8.8793@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
bz wrote:
jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:e6yhi.8611$09.1625
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:
In some cases it was possible to easily rewired with grounded 12/2
romex from the breaker box. In others, where that was not practical,
the two-prongers were replaced with new outlets--also two prong.
These are still available and should be used if upgrading to a
properly grounded outlet is not done.
If an earth ground is not available, a GFI outlet should be installed
at the beginning of the run and 3 prong outlets along the rest of the
run.
The GFI will trip if a ground fault is present.
The outlets should be marked to indicate that a GFI is installed and
that no earth ground is present.
I believe that this is much safer than using 2 prong outlets and meets
code.
Yes it is, and I'm perfectly aware of the fact. OTOH, replacing with
original equipment is far more responsible than doing what most people
do: replacing with a three prong outlet and either leaving the ground to
float...or worse yet, bonding ground to neutral.
Eventually, all those two-blade outlets will be rewired properly, with
new circuits added. I've done about 25% of the house so far, but it's
slow going....
Understood. I spent quite a bit of time putting GFI's in a house we bought
and are renting out. It was built in the late 40's and expanded several
times, some grounded outlets were installed but grounds were missing on
several. Older parts of the house are on an aux breaker box.
Figuring out what fed what was fun.
Why don't houses come with schematics?
John
All three pins on the other end of an IEC power cord are flat blades.
You're talking about this IEC (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309) power
connector, rated from 16A up to 250A @690VAC? ;-)
But it also uses round pins, not flat ones.
If so, then you surely noticed the lousy Ampčre rating of mere 10A for it,
which is just 2.3kW, rather than the 3.68kW which you have with a 16A
connector system?
That thing has ONLY been planned for adoption by BRAZIL!Well, it must have some reason that the international standard 230 V household
plug system, specified under IEC 60906-1, uses round pins as well, not flat
ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1
I don't know. Apparently those specs are either missing completely on those
devices' power cords I came across so far, or they are written so tiny, that
not a single one of their owners could read them either.
And, If I plug in that forementioned air compressors power cord and it comes
out of the socket again just by the weight of the cable pulling on it, which
spec applies for it then?