Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[m kinsler]

On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" <an address @ some place





.com> wrote:
Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

xposted to sci.electronics.repair





I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking
for

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/california-passes-vampire-slayer-a...

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when
there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like
having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will
be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect
inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when
they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black
plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using
by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll
have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because
both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since
they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being
dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account.
(This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be
happy to note.)

In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal.

M Kinsler

 

[James Sweet]

"mm" <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:sta173d9nlcp7c9c45ckovljmv9gmg3v08@4ax.com...

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" <an address @ some place
.com> wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets
quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of
power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

You can pick up a gadget called a Kill A Watt and other similar devices for
under 30 bucks. It's a pretty impressive power analyzer, the wonders of
modern technology. Pick up one of those and you can find out how much power
anything in the house draws, as well as the power factor, cumulative
consumption, etc. I have one and love it.

 

[N Cook]

Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[m kinsler]

On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:

Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.

 

[N Cook]

m kinsler <kinsler33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.

So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Mike Paff]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:27:12 +0100, "N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl>
wrote:

So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

From my understanding of the term, a vampire device is any one that
continues to draw power even when in the 'off' state. This would
include devices powered by a 'wall-wart', devices with a built-in
clock, devices that are powered on/off by a remote control (the
circuit that receives from the remote needs power all the time), etc.

So they would include most microwave ovens (the clock), TVs, VCRs,
DVD players/recorders, DVRs, personal computers, etc.

 

[James Sweet]

"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:f4rmls$6nf$1@inews.gazeta.pl...

m kinsler <kinsler33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.


So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US
or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless of
the sort of power supply.

 

[N Cook]

James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...

"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:f4rmls$6nf$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
m kinsler <kinsler33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of
the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)



It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless
of
the sort of power supply.

There does not seem to be an equivalent recognised UK term for this, any
limies/pomms know any different ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <f4tbst$cnj$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, N Cook <diverse8@gazeta.pl>
writes

James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...

"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:f4rmls$6nf$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
m kinsler <kinsler33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of
the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)



It's a term used mostly by the solar/wind guys running houses off-grid. It
refers to any device which draws power even in the off state, regardless
of
the sort of power supply.



There does not seem to be an equivalent recognised UK term for this, any
limies/pomms know any different ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you

have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.
--

 

[hobbes]

Hi,

On some of these smaller power supplies there is no transformer at
all! I.E. no primary and secondary. They do have an inductor that is
used to step down the power and rely on a Thysistor (aka. electronic
switch) to turn on an off very fast. Usually 60 times a second (ac
mains frequency). The voltage regulation is dependent on the amount of
time the switch is on during the power cycle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_mode_power_supply

One nice thing about this is that they can adapt to many mains
voltages and mains frequency. Hence for laptop computers you only need
one "International" power brik like supply.

Warmest regards, Mike.

 

[msg]

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message <f4tbst$cnj$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, N Cook <diverse8@gazeta.pl
writes

James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Gbjci.13139$%H5.1612@trndny03...


"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:f4rmls$6nf$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
m kinsler <kinsler33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

<snip>
I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.

I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the USA).
Ian.

....hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers" instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <13750a7g31ed5c3@corp.supernews.com>, msg
<msg@_cybertheque.org_> writes

Ian Jackson wrote:

snip


I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.

I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.

...hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers" instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael

Hey! You are right about the 'vampire tap'.

I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!

Re the British incorrect use of plurals when referring to companies (or,
indeed, any group), yes, this is very common, eg the 'government are',
'the team are' etc. However, being grammatically correct does sometimes
grate a little. Maybe the Americans are not totally to blame for this
sad world we live in. But, of course, we always (correctly) say 'maths'
(for mathematics).

Ian.

--

 

[N Cook]

Ian Jackson <IanJacksonRemoveThisBit@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8jFkaqNKjocGFwnQ@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...

In message <13750a7g31ed5c3@corp.supernews.com>, msg
msg@_cybertheque.org_> writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

snip


I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).
Ian.

I had not heard of this usage regarding power consumption until this
thread, however 'vampire tap' in electronic parlance refers to
a piercing type of cable connector, most often a coaxial connector
used in Ethernet 10base5 wiring.

...hmmm, I never cease to be amazed by the Brits' continual misuse of
case in referring to companies (in usenet postings) in the plural instead
of the singular, e.g. "Hewlett Packard have a new line of servers"
instead
of "Hewlett Packard has a new line of servers".

Regards,

Michael


Hey! You are right about the 'vampire tap'.

I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!

Re the British incorrect use of plurals when referring to companies (or,
indeed, any group), yes, this is very common, eg the 'government are',
'the team are' etc. However, being grammatically correct does sometimes
grate a little. Maybe the Americans are not totally to blame for this
sad world we live in. But, of course, we always (correctly) say 'maths'
(for mathematics).

Ian.

--

I never hear the royal "we" but I'm often forced to hear reference to the
football "we" all the time. As in "we were robbed" mouthed by people who
haven't kicked a ball since they were kids.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <f4u7uh$lqi$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, N Cook <diverse8@gazeta.pl>
writes

I never hear the royal "we" but I'm often forced to hear reference to the
football "we" all the time. As in "we were robbed" mouthed by people who
haven't kicked a ball since they were kids.

Nah. You've got it wrong. It's usually 'We WAS robbed!'

Ian.
--

 

[z]

On Jun 13, 11:25 pm, m kinsler <kinsle...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 13, 10:53 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:





On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:51:20 -0400, "Zephyr" <an address @ some place

.com> wrote:
Hey folks,

I'm curious about power consumption of things like the power supply for my
dell laptop
its and AC/DC adaptor, and when the unit is charging my laptop it gets quite
warm.
from that I infer that its using a fair amount of power.

now, if I leave it plugged into the wall, but remove the laptop, it does
not heat up, but.
there is a little light on it that indicates it is receiving power.
aside from that little light, is it using any significant amount of power?
The label on the unit says the input is 1.5a

same question goes for my cell phone chargers 0.2a

I understand that some of these things do use power constantly, but... how
much?

Good question. Not only the ones with wall warts, those black
"adaptor" boxes that plug into the wall with a cord coming out of
them, but many radios etc. with the transformers inside, have no
switch in the primary of the power transformer, and they are ON all
the time.

For electronic reasons I don't well understand, when there is no
current in the secondary of a transformer, there is higher impedance
in the primary of the transformer, so less current flows even through
the primary. The heat one can feel, that you feel, the waste heat
would be iiac the same percentage of energy used, as when the device
is running and there is current through the secondary.

From your touch, it sounds like the current is a lot lower, but otoh,
it's on all the time if the thing is plugged in, even for things that
are only used an hour a year.

Does anyone know what the percentage is, or how much these things use
when off?

xposted to sci.electronics.repair

I found this link but it doesn't get into the Nitti gritty I was looking
for

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/california-passes-vampire-slayer-a...

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this. Essentially, when
there's no load on the phone charger or other appliance, it's like
having an inductance across the power line of your house. There will
be some very small current flow, but only because it's not a perfect
inductance. All of the energy used in these wall transformers when
they're just idling is dissipated in the form of heat in their black
plastic case, so you can get an idea of how much power they're using
by just feeling them. It's not really very much. Note that you'll
have a tough time measuring the power drain with a multimeter, because
both current and voltage will show rather high readings. But since
they're almost 1/4 cycle out of phase, there's almost no power being
dissipated, and only a good power meter will take this into account.
(This problem is the basis for a lot of free energy claims, you'll be
happy to note.)

In general, wall transformers aren't a big deal.

And don't forget, in winter you don't mind a little heat radiating, so
there really is no waste, unless you have them plugged in the attic or
something.

 

[z]

On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:

m kinsler <kinsle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list

onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.

M Kinsler

okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.

So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your
cell phone."
-George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001

 

[Ron(UK)]

z wrote:

On Jun 14, 11:27 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
m kinsler <kinsle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1181824745.820331.70270@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> On Jun 14, 5:47 am, "N Cook" <diver...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
Is vampire some in-joke conflation of V(olt) + amp that I'm out of the
inductive loop with (sorry Mr Churchill)
--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



I believe that it has to do with the idea that a vampire is something
of a parasite, living as he or she does on the blood or electric
current of the host. It's one of those imprecise terms up with which
we all must put.
M Kinsler
okay, _you_ try to match wits with Winston Spencer C.
So is Vampire = Wall Wart another term to add to my USA/UK (2 nations
divided by a common language) file ?http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
If anyone, reading this, is aware of any other tool/technical terms in US or
UK, my real email address is spelt out on the URL below

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"A vampire is a-a cell deal you can plug in th' wall to charge your
cell phone."
-George Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001

Could the vampire thing relating to cable piercing connectors originally
have come from festoon lighting lamp holders as used on fairgrounds etc.
where two sharp spikes (fangs) pierce the insulation of flat twin cable
to provide power to the lamp holder?

RonUK

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Ian Jackson wrote:

I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!

They were real low grade shit. They were replaced by backmatched
taps when systems were extended past the original 12 channel systems in
the US. They caused mismatch problems, and wasted a lot of the signal
on the trunklines or feeders. They worked, more or less on systems with
just a few channels, and very few customers, but them, those people were
already used to ghosting and snow. They had all been pulled from the 17
systems around Ft Rucker by 1972, including a couple short haul feeds
that only had a couple channels.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <4672E270.D2536F3D@earthlink.net>, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> writes

Ian Jackson wrote:


I'm in the CATV industry, and I've just remembered that, many years ago,
I did see reference to 'vampire taps' as being the latest and greatest
for coaxial ethernet. That took me back to the early 1960s, when similar
tap devices were manufactured in the UK (by Thorn, I think). I may still
have one somewhere. Nasty things!


They were real low grade shit. They were replaced by backmatched
taps when systems were extended past the original 12 channel systems in
the US. They caused mismatch problems, and wasted a lot of the signal
on the trunklines or feeders. They worked, more or less on systems with
just a few channels, and very few customers, but them, those people were
already used to ghosting and snow. They had all been pulled from the 17
systems around Ft Rucker by 1972, including a couple short haul feeds
that only had a couple channels.


Equally bad on ethernet I expect? Also, does ethernet require them to be

non-directional (ie just resistive tap-offs, with no directional
coupler)?
Ian.
--

 

[mm]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:00:18 +0100, Ian Jackson
<IanJacksonRemoveThisBit@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

I'd never heard it until it appeared here (about a week ago?). If you
have to have a term to describe such power supplies, it's quite a good
one. However, it's just one more step down the road where words don't
actually mean what they say (most of which seem to originate in the
USA).

England has loads of slang that the USA doesn't use. Most of which
we've never heard. Ask about this on alt.english.usage and the
English posters there can give you lots of stuff.

I think you are in the position I'm in in our respective countries,
knowing few or no people who recent slang. Old slang doesn't capture
our attention because we know what it means.

Ian.
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