Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Meat Plow]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:46:10 -0500, Zachary Burns Has Frothed:

Subject: Re: Figure out this Resistor with Color Code
From: "Zachary Burns" <zacharyburns@shotmail.com
Reply-To: "Zachary Burns" <zacharyburns@shotmail.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:46:10 -0500

Oh, it could be a molded inductor.

Is there a way I can test this? If I hook up to an Ohm meter, I should get
what?

Low ohmage. Can you remind me why this part is a suspect?

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Zachary Burns]

Somebody said it was bad and I can't replace with the part that was taken
out because they literally cut it out (from what I can tell). So I needed
to order a new one.

Zack

"Meat Plow" <meat@meatplow.local> wrote in message
newsan.2007.01.12.15.50.27.840000@nntp.sun-meatplow.local...

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:46:10 -0500, Zachary Burns Has Frothed:

Subject: Re: Figure out this Resistor with Color Code
From: "Zachary Burns" <zacharyburns@shotmail.com
Reply-To: "Zachary Burns" <zacharyburns@shotmail.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:46:10 -0500

Oh, it could be a molded inductor.

Is there a way I can test this? If I hook up to an Ohm meter, I should
get
what?


Low ohmage. Can you remind me why this part is a suspect?

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Meat Plow]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:17:36 -0500, Zachary Burns Has Frothed:

Somebody said it was bad and I can't replace with the part that was taken
out because they literally cut it out (from what I can tell). So I needed
to order a new one.

What does it read with an ohm meter?

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Zachary Burns wrote:

Somebody said it was bad and I can't replace with the part that was taken
out because they literally cut it out (from what I can tell). So I needed
to order a new one.

Brand and model of the TV set? The location on the board? If it was
"cut out" there would be a pair of cut leads sticking up to tell you
where it was.

That body style of resistor is quite old, and hasn't been used for
new sets for about 20 years. Most electronics these days are either
metal film, or surface mount. and look completely different. It looks
to be a 3.9 Meg 1/2 watt 10% carbon composition resistor. If it is a
carbon composition it would be used in the safety circuit to bleed
static charges to ground because damaged metal film resistors can arc
over, and electrocute someone. The set would operate without this part,
but not meet safety standards.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Zachary Burns]

Don't know, but I'll ask. I doubt she'll bring in her 52" projection so I
can find out.

Zack

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:45A7BB1B.A2942761@earthlink.net...

Zachary Burns wrote:

Somebody said it was bad and I can't replace with the part that was taken
out because they literally cut it out (from what I can tell). So I
needed
to order a new one.

Brand and model of the TV set? The location on the board? If it was
"cut out" there would be a pair of cut leads sticking up to tell you
where it was.

That body style of resistor is quite old, and hasn't been used for
new sets for about 20 years. Most electronics these days are either
metal film, or surface mount. and look completely different. It looks
to be a 3.9 Meg 1/2 watt 10% carbon composition resistor. If it is a
carbon composition it would be used in the safety circuit to bleed
static charges to ground because damaged metal film resistors can arc
over, and electrocute someone. The set would operate without this part,
but not meet safety standards.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

Seems kind of unlikely that equipment like that would get a lot of wear
from the pots being adjusted back and forth. Could it be that vibration
from the speakers is tearing up the pots in the head? Maybe the PC board
and front panel lack the mechanical dampening to protect this from
happening.

N Cook wrote:

The present problematic is a Carvin Pro Bass 100, PB100 which will come
bouncing back next weekend.
The new fault , could well be due to another pot failed, symptoms over the
phone so far, the previous one I replaced is fine.
I still have the previous original one lying around .
No makers name , a logo like cross-section of a flying saucer, a thin elipse
laid over a circle, just the outermost lineforms.
The wiper is only 0.15 mm thick , 0.6mm wide and using a force gauge, it
starts deflecting at only 12 grams pressure.

Followup on my endurance test on a preset, I survived 1000 turns back and
forth , whole track, as did the pot. No wavering on mid-track resistance
readings. The rough feel has returned but I doubt that is due to the wiper
action. Cracking it open, one obvious shiny, but not broken through to
paxolin, track from one nib and vague partial thin trace from the other nib.
I would estimate it could have done more than 10,000 rotations before both
tracks were worn through.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

 

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

That explains the problem. What he needs to do is follow the group out
to the "Gig". He doesn't need to be there from the start, rather at the
end when the group finishes up by smashing their guitars and mike stands
into his rental amplifiers!

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



Arfa Daily wrote:


Hi James. That was my original feeling also, but as I said further up, I
repair lots of group equipment, and really don't seem to suffer that much
from bad as opposed to broken pots, anyway.


What do you mean by "Group equipment"?



Musical Instrument amplifiers and the like.

Graham



That explains the problem. What he needs to do is follow the group out

to the "Gig". He doesn't need to be there from the start, rather at the
end when the group finishes up by smashing their guitars and mike stands
into his rental amplifiers!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

 

[N Cook]

**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** <rhyolite@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:45A87AB4.8070702@nettally.com...

Seems kind of unlikely that equipment like that would get a lot of wear
from the pots being adjusted back and forth. Could it be that vibration
from the speakers is tearing up the pots in the head? Maybe the PC board
and front panel lack the mechanical dampening to protect this from
happening.

N Cook wrote:








The present problematic is a Carvin Pro Bass 100, PB100 which will come
bouncing back next weekend.
The new fault , could well be due to another pot failed, symptoms over
the
phone so far, the previous one I replaced is fine.
I still have the previous original one lying around .
No makers name , a logo like cross-section of a flying saucer, a thin
elipse
laid over a circle, just the outermost lineforms.
The wiper is only 0.15 mm thick , 0.6mm wide and using a force gauge, it
starts deflecting at only 12 grams pressure.

Followup on my endurance test on a preset, I survived 1000 turns back and
forth , whole track, as did the pot. No wavering on mid-track resistance
readings. The rough feel has returned but I doubt that is due to the
wiper
action. Cracking it open, one obvious shiny, but not broken through to
paxolin, track from one nib and vague partial thin trace from the other
nib.
I would estimate it could have done more than 10,000 rotations before
both
tracks were worn through.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/






--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Its not a wear problem , in my opinion.
There is absolutely no wear on the track , the problem is due to too flimsy
a wiper, half an ounce of pressure is enough to start lifting the wiper, ie
only age-thickened lubricant grease inside is enough to do that.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:eoak2n$ip8$1@inews.gazeta.pl...

I'm coming round to thinking that as these pots are easily openable and
there is no wear at all on the tracks, then clean out all the lubricant
with
meths or something, coat the wiper with something to stiffen it up a bit
and
re-assemble, with no lubricant at all, maybe just "dry lubricant" of fine
graphite powder laid in the track area instead.

Ah ! Same post appeared ( accidentally I guess ) in your "speaker power"
thread, so I say the same here -

There ya go then !

I also agree with Ron in respect of subbing parts in musos' gear. Looking
for trouble with some of them ...

Arfa

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[N Cook]

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:EF4qh.58606$Qa6.41578@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...

"N Cook" <diverse8@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:eoak2n$ip8$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
I'm coming round to thinking that as these pots are easily openable and
there is no wear at all on the tracks, then clean out all the lubricant
with
meths or something, coat the wiper with something to stiffen it up a bit
and
re-assemble, with no lubricant at all, maybe just "dry lubricant" of
fine
graphite powder laid in the track area instead.


Ah ! Same post appeared ( accidentally I guess ) in your "speaker power"
thread, so I say the same here -

There ya go then !

I also agree with Ron in respect of subbing parts in musos' gear. Looking
for trouble with some of them ...

Arfa
--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Rushing around to go to a pyrotechnics lecture.
Interesting demonstratiion of a developemental stage pyrotechnic strobe
light, for chemistry , amazingly sharp cut-off, re-ignition, of about 4
flashes per second, intense flare strobe action

 

[stevezemlicka]

First, sorry for bringing such an old thread back to life but I wonder
if anyone has any other ideas about this. I have the same problem with
a KDS PixelTouch monitor. I have found an interesting twist to this
problem though. If I leave the inverter plugged in but remove the
screws holding it and position it outside the monitor, it works
perfectly.

Also, if I place the inverter board underneath the LCD and assemble it
while it is working, it will continue to work until power is lost.
Normally I would just replace the inverter but PixelTouch no longer has
any of these. In addition, the original company that made these
monitors (gvision, who sold them to KDS for rebranding) has the
inverters for $25 but will not sell them. They state they are for
internal use only and I'd have to send it in for a $50 repair plus the
$25 part.

I initially thought that it was the positioning of the cables but I've
tried to reposition the connecting cables to no avail. As far as I can
tell, the inverter looks perfect and performs perfect until it is
installed properly.

Any ideas?




--
stevezemlicka

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:46:47 +0000, stevezemlicka Has Frothed:

First, sorry for bringing such an old thread back to life but I wonder
if anyone has any other ideas about this. I have the same problem with
a KDS PixelTouch monitor. I have found an interesting twist to this
problem though. If I leave the inverter plugged in but remove the
screws holding it and position it outside the monitor, it works
perfectly.

Also, if I place the inverter board underneath the LCD and assemble it
while it is working, it will continue to work until power is lost.
Normally I would just replace the inverter but PixelTouch no longer has
any of these. In addition, the original company that made these
monitors (gvision, who sold them to KDS for rebranding) has the
inverters for $25 but will not sell them. They state they are for
internal use only and I'd have to send it in for a $50 repair plus the
$25 part.

I initially thought that it was the positioning of the cables but I've
tried to reposition the connecting cables to no avail. As far as I can
tell, the inverter looks perfect and performs perfect until it is
installed properly.

Any ideas?

Maybe the screw apply just enough pressure on the inverter that it causes
it to fail?


--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[JANA]

I have an interesting question: If you were told to use (Display, 5, Vol +,
TV), for what purpose did you use the same thing again, but modifying the
commands that you used to get in to the service mode??

The big characters on the screen must have been an indication of something.

By using erroneous entries, and now not knowing what was done, it is
possible that a wrong entry was commanded, and something is set in a way
that is locking out the set from operating. Another thing that may have
happened, is that by coincidence something else in the set failed.

When the set was new, if the problem was not present and it came up on its
own, obviously there is some component that has become defective, and
therefore an adjustment is not the solution. Proper servicing would be the
solution.

If the uPC system in the set is locked out because of an erroneous entry,
there is no way without changing the EPROM to one containing the default
operation. With the default operation, the complete factory set up would
have to be done, which has alignments that I doubt you would be able to do
at home, unless you had all the necessary setup, experience, and factory
setup and service manuals.

Your best bet is to take the set to the authorized Sony service rep for your
area. If the set is more than about 3 years old, the replacement EPROM may
no longer be available. In many of the models, the complete processor board
has to be replaced if there is a fault, and then the complete factory
alignment must be performed. They do not support to service the processor
board.

The EPROM is a high density surface mount device. I had a number of Plasma
displays from Sony, where I was not able to have the parts any more. They
recommended that the sets should be replaced for newer models.


--

JANA
_____


<alcurb@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168718943.606379.303800@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
PLEASE HELP !!

I have a Sony WEGA plasma KE-P42XS1 and I entered the test mode by
pressing the keys on the remote: {display} -> [5] -> {up vol} -> {TV}.
(The intent was to fix a problem with the horizontal position of the
picture, but I never got that far.)

I got some big characters with Tnnn on the upper right. The last thing
I did was hit the sequence {display} -> [5] -> {DN vol} -> {TV} and
nothing happened. I decided to stop everything and power down the TV
and power up. I was horrified to discover that the TV would not
initialise. I only had one power light and no other lights (stdby was
off). I disconnected the power to the TV, waited a few minutes,
reconnected power and tried to turn it on, but all I got was the one
glowing power LED as before. TV was dark. No other LEDs were on. Remote
did and does nothing to the TV (remote itself is working). I even
cycled the power switch on the right side of the set with no results
other than the power led cycling on and off as I pressed the power
switch on and off.

My TV is not under warranty. I am an electronics technician and I have
the service manual, but it says nothing about the service codes. I got
that info from another forum. Now I know why the service manual said
nothing about the codes.

I figure that the next thing I can try is perform a firmware or
software update, but I need the firmware file and the instructions or
service bulletin that goes with it.

Can anyone help me ? (short of suggesting to take it to an authorized
Sony service center)

Please advise.

 

[JANA]

Maybe there is a defect in the circuit board, or in some part, that when it
is mounted, something is going opened. Another thing, is that maybe there is
a component that has become temperature sensitive, and it is failing when
there is a little more heat from being mounted.

Try using a heat gun on the inverter to see if it fails. If it stops
working, you can then use some freeze spray on one component at a time until
you find the failed one. Most of the time, the electrolytic capacitors go
bad on these boards.

--

JANA
_____


"stevezemlicka" <stevezemlicka.2kde98@diybanter.com> wrote in message
news:stevezemlicka.2kde98@diybanter.com...

First, sorry for bringing such an old thread back to life but I wonder
if anyone has any other ideas about this. I have the same problem with
a KDS PixelTouch monitor. I have found an interesting twist to this
problem though. If I leave the inverter plugged in but remove the
screws holding it and position it outside the monitor, it works
perfectly.

Also, if I place the inverter board underneath the LCD and assemble it
while it is working, it will continue to work until power is lost.
Normally I would just replace the inverter but PixelTouch no longer has
any of these. In addition, the original company that made these
monitors (gvision, who sold them to KDS for rebranding) has the
inverters for $25 but will not sell them. They state they are for
internal use only and I'd have to send it in for a $50 repair plus the
$25 part.

I initially thought that it was the positioning of the cables but I've
tried to reposition the connecting cables to no avail. As far as I can
tell, the inverter looks perfect and performs perfect until it is
installed properly.

Any ideas?




--
stevezemlicka

 

[M Berger]

Things are built differently now for reasons other than
cost. At one time you changed a thermostat in your car
twice a year (if you lived in the midwestern U.S.) and
had the carbon cleaned out at 50,000 miles. You got a
tune-up and spark plugs every 15,000 miles.

The spark plugs on new vehicles are rated for $ 50,000
and up. A computer takes care of the tune-up for you,
and the regular maintenance involves basically adding or
changing fluids.

On your old clothes dryer you were supposed to oil the
drum bearings and motor every so often. That's no longer
considered necessary.

Amazingly, these "cheaply built" appliances and vehicles
are awfully reliable considering how little maintenance
and attention they get. Most refrigerators actually still
cool when they're scrapped. It's the inside door trim,
or door gasket, or a clogged vent that causes people to throw
them away.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

In my opinon...no.

I intentionally try to have older appliances, vehicles, machines to
lower repair costs and keep overall ownership cost to a minimum.

Your thoughts?

 

[hallerb@aol.com]

being in the service industry myself fixing office equiptement, much
isnt designed to be easily repaired. ever wonder why nearly every
copier has white covers?

so the look shabby in a couple years to encourage you to buy a new
one.....

some manufactuers intentially make their products expensive and hard to
repair........

turned service parts into a profit department since theres low margins
on new machine sales

 

[Rick Brandt]

terry wrote:

Maybe that's stating it rather strongly?

Although recent discussion/discovery that IPods will exhaust their
batteries in approximately one to two years do clearly raise the
question? "Designed to fail?".

But it's the same reason that I continue to accept and use old
appliances that I can repair myself.
For example I refuse to buy a stove that incorporates a digital
timer/clock; they are virtually unrepairable! Eventually can see
myself, however, ending up with one of those and deliberately
disconnecting the digital timer clock or modifying the stove to use
one my older (saved) clock/timers or just dong away with the timer
altogether.

I think another big factor is the ratio of cost on parts versus labor. In the
"old days" you might have a repair that was 70% parts and 30% labor cost-wise.
Nowdays those percentages would be reversed and that just irks people who just
don't see the value of anyone's labor (other than their own of course).

You see posts about this all the time. "Called a guy to come out and do foo and
couldn't believe what he wanted to charge me!" Labor really induces a lot of
sticker shock these days.

 

[Rod Speed]

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

In my opinon...no.

I dont believe it happens in the sense that its actually possible
to design something to fail early and still have a viable product.

And there is plenty of stuff that clearly aint anything to do
with planned obsolescence at all. Most obviously with stuff
as basic as bread knives which are all metal. Those wont
even need to be replaced when the handle gives out.

And heaps of kitchen stuff is now stainless steel, which
will last forever compared with the older tinplate crap.

I intentionally try to have older appliances, vehicles, machines to
lower repair costs and keep overall ownership cost to a minimum.

Your thoughts?

Works fine with some things, but can bite. I just replaced
the switch in the vaccuum cleaner which is about 40 years
old. Cost peanuts and was very easy to find a new one.

The big 9ź" hand held circular saw that I built the house with
35 years ago has just seen the power switch fail and that is
no longer available from the manufacturer. Fortunately its
failed on so the saw is still usable tho more dangerous.
It uses blades with a 1?" hole. The current blades have
1" holes with washers which allow smaller shafts but no
easy way to use them on my old saw. There doesnt appear
to be any readily available source of different collets for that.

Just had the chain adjuster failed on a dirt cheap relatively
new electric chainsaw. I assumed that they wouldnt bother
to supply parts like that, but I was wrong, readily available
and in fact free. Clearly no planned obsolescence there.

And power tools are now so cheap that they are very viable
to buy even for just one job. I had to cut a copper pipe thats
buried in the ground and it costs peanuts to buy a very decent
jigsaw to cut it, just to avoid having to dig a bigger hole around
where I needed to cut it. Its been fine for other stuff since,
no evidence that its going to die any time soon. Could well get
40 years out of that too like I did with most of the power tools
that I used to build the house.

Cars in spades. I've just replaced my 35 year old car that I was
too stupid to fix the windscreen leak with which eventually produced
rust holes in the floor which wont pass our registration check.
While its possible to plate the holes, I cant be bothered, I intended
to drive that car into the ground and decided that that had happened.
No evidence that the replacement new car wont last as long. Its
certainly got more plastic, most obviously with the bumper bars that
the new one doesnt have, but that mostly due to modern crumple
zones, not due to planned obsolescence and might save my life etc.

People were raving on about planned obsolescence when
I built the house and I've had very little that has ever needed
replacement apart from basic stuff like light bulbs and the
occassional failure of stuff like elements in the oven etc.

More below.

Irreparable damage
By Bryce Baschuk
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 9, 2007

Bill Jones, after 42 years, is finally closing the
Procter Appliance Service shop in Silver Spring.

That isnt planned obsolescence, thats the fact that its a
lot cheaper to pay a very low wage asian to make you
a new one than it ever is to pay a first world monkey to
repair your existing one with all but quite trivial faults.

"You can't make a good salary to survive on the way you
could years ago," said the 61-year-old owner of the oven,
refrigerator and washer-dryer repair shop. "Everything
has changed in the appliance business."

It has indeed, but not because of planned obsolescence.

Mr. Jones recently sold his home in Laurel and is in the
process of moving to Bluffton, S.C., with his wife, Jeannette.

Sob sob.

Mr. Jones is one of the many Washington-area repairmen who have
struggled to stay afloat as residents replace, not repair, old appliances.

Because its generally better value to replace.

"It's a dying trade," said Scott Brown, Webmaster of www.fixitnow.com
and self-proclaimed "Samurai Appliance Repairman."

Wota fucking wanker. Bet he doesnt disembowel himself when he fucks up.

The reason for this is twofold, Mr. Brown said: The cost
of appliances is coming down because of cheap overseas
labor and improved manufacturing techniques,

So much for your silly line about planned obsolescence.

and repairmen are literally dying off.

They arent in other industrys that are still viable,
most obviously with cars and trucks and houses.

The average age of appliance technicians is 42, and there are few
young repairmen to take their place, said Mr. Brown, 47. He has
been repairing appliances in New Hampshire for the past 13 years.

He should have had a clue 13 years ago.
The writing was on the wall long before that.

In the next seven years, the number of veteran appliance
repairmen will decrease nationwide as current workers retire
or transfer to other occupations, the Department of Labor
said in its 2007 Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Must be rocket scientist shinybums.

The federal agency said many prospective repairmen prefer work
that is less strenuous and want more comfortable working conditions.

They actually prefer a decent income.

That claimed 'prefer work that is less strenuous and want more
comfortable working conditions' clearly hasnt affect car, truck or
house repair and the construction industry etc. Tho there will
always be some of that with a 5% unemployment rate.

Local repairmen said it is simply a question of economics.
"Nowadays appliances are cheap, so people are just getting new ones,"

Yep, only a fool wouldnt if the new one costs about
the same as the cost of repairing the old one.

said Paul Singh, a manager at the Appliance Service Depot, a repair
shop in Northwest. "As a result, business has slowed down a lot."

"The average repair cost for a household appliance is $50 to $350,"
said Shahid Rana, a service technician at Rana Refrigeration, a repair
shop in Capitol Heights. "If the repair is going to cost more than
that, we usually tell the customer to go out and buy a new one."

Must be rocket scientist apes.

It's not uncommon for today's repairmen to condemn an appliance
instead of fixing it for the sake of their customers' wallets.

If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break
down again, repairmen are criticized by their customers
and often lose business because of a damaged reputation.

Mr. Jones said he based his repair decisions on the 50 percent
rule: "If the cost of service costs more than 50 percent of the price
of a new machine, I'll tell my customers to get a new one."

What makes a lot more sense is to factor in the failure rate of that appliance.

"A lot of customers want me to be honest with them, so I'll tell them
my opinion and leave the decision making up to them," he said.

In recent years, consumers have tended to buy new
appliances when existing warranties expire rather than
repair old appliances, the Department of Labor said.

Hardly surprising given that they are now so cheap.

Mr. Brown acknowledged this trend. "Lower-end appliances which you
can buy for $200 to $300 are basically throwaway appliances," he said.
"They are so inexpensive that you shouldn't pay to get them repaired."
"The quality of the materials that are being made aren't lasting,"

Pig ignorant silly stuff.

Mr. Jones said. "Nowadays you're seeing more plastic

I had some reservations about my 35 year old
dishwasher that does have a plastic liner. Its lasted fine.

and more circuit boards, and they aren't holding up."

Bullshit.

Many home appliances sold in the United States
are made in Taiwan, Singapore, China and Mexico.

And now china.

anymore," Mr. Jones said.
"But then again, American parts are only better to a point,
a lot of U.S. companies are all about the dollar."

Fortunately for the next generation of repairmen, some of today's
high-end appliances make service repairs the most cost-effective option.

The Department of Labor concurred. "Over the next decade, as more
consumers purchase higher-priced appliances designed to have much
longer lives, they will be more likely to use repair services than to
purchase new appliances," said the 2007 Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Bet that will have fuck all effect on the employment prospects.

Modern, energy-efficient refrigerators
can cost as much as $5,000 to $10,000,

Pig ignorant drivel. You can buy plenty of modern energy efficient
fridges for a hell of a lot less than that. I've done just that a month ago.

and with such a hefty price tag, throwing one away is not an option.

Bet the fools stupid enough to buy those will anyway.

In some cases, repairmen can help consumers reduce the
amount of aggravation that a broken appliance will cause.

Consider the time and effort it takes to shop for a new appliance, wait
for its delivery, remove the old one and get the new one installed.

I did mine in 30 mins total, literally.

In addition, certain appliances such as ovens and
washing machines can be a bigger hassle to replace
because they are connected to gas and water lines.

Just changed washing machines over too, with a free
one I inherited. Changing the water over took minutes too.

"It takes your time, it takes your effort, and if you don't
install the new appliance, you'll have to hire a service
technician to install it anyways," Mr. Brown said.

Only the incompetant fools that cant change the washing machine over.

Some consumers bond with their appliances like old pets,
and for loyalty or sentimental reasons, refuse to let them go.

Mr. Rana said some of his clients have appliances that are
more than 30 years old. It makes sense, he said. "A lot of old
refrigerators are worth fixing because they give people good service.

Wrong, those are normally lousy energy efficiency.

They just don't make things like they used to."

Yeah, they make them much better today energy efficiency wise.

And much better design wise too with the shelves and bins etc too.

 

[Rick Brandt]

M Berger wrote:

Things are built differently now for reasons other than
cost. At one time you changed a thermostat in your car
twice a year (if you lived in the midwestern U.S.) and
had the carbon cleaned out at 50,000 miles. You got a
tune-up and spark plugs every 15,000 miles.

The spark plugs on new vehicles are rated for $ 50,000
and up. A computer takes care of the tune-up for you,
and the regular maintenance involves basically adding or
changing fluids.

On your old clothes dryer you were supposed to oil the
drum bearings and motor every so often. That's no longer
considered necessary.

Amazingly, these "cheaply built" appliances and vehicles
are awfully reliable considering how little maintenance
and attention they get. Most refrigerators actually still
cool when they're scrapped. It's the inside door trim,
or door gasket, or a clogged vent that causes people to throw
them away.

The planned obselescence theory has one huge flaw. If I intentionally design my
product so you will have to replace it rather than repair it and (even more
deviously) intentionally design it so it will not have a long life (just past
the warranty period) I have no reason to believe that the replacement you
purchase will be my product. In fact it is way more likely that you will
purchase the other guy's product next time.

A far more plausible theory is that building the most reliable "whatevers" at
the lowest cost just happens to result in manufacturing methods that produce
goods that are not as repairable as they were in the past. No need to introduce
any big conspiracies.

 

[hallerb@aol.com]

Rod Speed wrote:

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

In my opinon...no.

I dont believe it happens in the sense that its actually possible
to design something to fail early and still have a viable product.

And there is plenty of stuff that clearly aint anything to do
with planned obsolescence at all. Most obviously with stuff
as basic as bread knives which are all metal. Those wont
even need to be replaced when the handle gives out.

And heaps of kitchen stuff is now stainless steel, which
will last forever compared with the older tinplate crap.

I intentionally try to have older appliances, vehicles, machines to
lower repair costs and keep overall ownership cost to a minimum.

Your thoughts?

Works fine with some things, but can bite. I just replaced
the switch in the vaccuum cleaner which is about 40 years
old. Cost peanuts and was very easy to find a new one.

The big 9ź" hand held circular saw that I built the house with
35 years ago has just seen the power switch fail and that is
no longer available from the manufacturer. Fortunately its
failed on so the saw is still usable tho more dangerous.
It uses blades with a 1?" hole. The current blades have
1" holes with washers which allow smaller shafts but no
easy way to use them on my old saw. There doesnt appear
to be any readily available source of different collets for that.

Just had the chain adjuster failed on a dirt cheap relatively
new electric chainsaw. I assumed that they wouldnt bother
to supply parts like that, but I was wrong, readily available
and in fact free. Clearly no planned obsolescence there.

And power tools are now so cheap that they are very viable
to buy even for just one job. I had to cut a copper pipe thats
buried in the ground and it costs peanuts to buy a very decent
jigsaw to cut it, just to avoid having to dig a bigger hole around
where I needed to cut it. Its been fine for other stuff since,
no evidence that its going to die any time soon. Could well get
40 years out of that too like I did with most of the power tools
that I used to build the house.

Cars in spades. I've just replaced my 35 year old car that I was
too stupid to fix the windscreen leak with which eventually produced
rust holes in the floor which wont pass our registration check.
While its possible to plate the holes, I cant be bothered, I intended
to drive that car into the ground and decided that that had happened.
No evidence that the replacement new car wont last as long. Its
certainly got more plastic, most obviously with the bumper bars that
the new one doesnt have, but that mostly due to modern crumple
zones, not due to planned obsolescence and might save my life etc.

People were raving on about planned obsolescence when
I built the house and I've had very little that has ever needed
replacement apart from basic stuff like light bulbs and the
occassional failure of stuff like elements in the oven etc.

More below.

Irreparable damage
By Bryce Baschuk
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 9, 2007

Bill Jones, after 42 years, is finally closing the
Procter Appliance Service shop in Silver Spring.

That isnt planned obsolescence, thats the fact that its a
lot cheaper to pay a very low wage asian to make you
a new one than it ever is to pay a first world monkey to
repair your existing one with all but quite trivial faults.

"You can't make a good salary to survive on the way you
could years ago," said the 61-year-old owner of the oven,
refrigerator and washer-dryer repair shop. "Everything
has changed in the appliance business."

It has indeed, but not because of planned obsolescence.

Mr. Jones recently sold his home in Laurel and is in the
process of moving to Bluffton, S.C., with his wife, Jeannette.

Sob sob.

Mr. Jones is one of the many Washington-area repairmen who have
struggled to stay afloat as residents replace, not repair, old appliances.

Because its generally better value to replace.

"It's a dying trade," said Scott Brown, Webmaster of www.fixitnow.com
and self-proclaimed "Samurai Appliance Repairman."

Wota fucking wanker. Bet he doesnt disembowel himself when he fucks up.

The reason for this is twofold, Mr. Brown said: The cost
of appliances is coming down because of cheap overseas
labor and improved manufacturing techniques,

So much for your silly line about planned obsolescence.

and repairmen are literally dying off.

They arent in other industrys that are still viable,
most obviously with cars and trucks and houses.

The average age of appliance technicians is 42, and there are few
young repairmen to take their place, said Mr. Brown, 47. He has
been repairing appliances in New Hampshire for the past 13 years.

He should have had a clue 13 years ago.
The writing was on the wall long before that.

In the next seven years, the number of veteran appliance
repairmen will decrease nationwide as current workers retire
or transfer to other occupations, the Department of Labor
said in its 2007 Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Must be rocket scientist shinybums.

The federal agency said many prospective repairmen prefer work
that is less strenuous and want more comfortable working conditions.

They actually prefer a decent income.

That claimed 'prefer work that is less strenuous and want more
comfortable working conditions' clearly hasnt affect car, truck or
house repair and the construction industry etc. Tho there will
always be some of that with a 5% unemployment rate.

Local repairmen said it is simply a question of economics.
"Nowadays appliances are cheap, so people are just getting new ones,"

Yep, only a fool wouldnt if the new one costs about
the same as the cost of repairing the old one.

said Paul Singh, a manager at the Appliance Service Depot, a repair
shop in Northwest. "As a result, business has slowed down a lot."

"The average repair cost for a household appliance is $50 to $350,"
said Shahid Rana, a service technician at Rana Refrigeration, a repair
shop in Capitol Heights. "If the repair is going to cost more than
that, we usually tell the customer to go out and buy a new one."

Must be rocket scientist apes.

It's not uncommon for today's repairmen to condemn an appliance
instead of fixing it for the sake of their customers' wallets.

If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break
down again, repairmen are criticized by their customers
and often lose business because of a damaged reputation.

Mr. Jones said he based his repair decisions on the 50 percent
rule: "If the cost of service costs more than 50 percent of the price
of a new machine, I'll tell my customers to get a new one."

What makes a lot more sense is to factor in the failure rate of that appliance.

"A lot of customers want me to be honest with them, so I'll tell them
my opinion and leave the decision making up to them," he said.

In recent years, consumers have tended to buy new
appliances when existing warranties expire rather than
repair old appliances, the Department of Labor said.

Hardly surprising given that they are now so cheap.

Mr. Brown acknowledged this trend. "Lower-end appliances which you
can buy for $200 to $300 are basically throwaway appliances," he said.
"They are so inexpensive that you shouldn't pay to get them repaired."
"The quality of the materials that are being made aren't lasting,"

Pig ignorant silly stuff.

Mr. Jones said. "Nowadays you're seeing more plastic

I had some reservations about my 35 year old
dishwasher that does have a plastic liner. Its lasted fine.

and more circuit boards, and they aren't holding up."

Bullshit.

Many home appliances sold in the United States
are made in Taiwan, Singapore, China and Mexico.

And now china.

"Nothing is made [in the United States] anymore," Mr. Jones said.
"But then again, American parts are only better to a point,
a lot of U.S. companies are all about the dollar."

Fortunately for the next generation of repairmen, some of today's
high-end appliances make service repairs the most cost-effective option.

The Department of Labor concurred. "Over the next decade, as more
consumers purchase higher-priced appliances designed to have much
longer lives, they will be more likely to use repair services than to
purchase new appliances," said the 2007 Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Bet that will have fuck all effect on the employment prospects.

Modern, energy-efficient refrigerators
can cost as much as $5,000 to $10,000,

Pig ignorant drivel. You can buy plenty of modern energy efficient
fridges for a hell of a lot less than that. I've done just that a month ago.

and with such a hefty price tag, throwing one away is not an option.

Bet the fools stupid enough to buy those will anyway.

In some cases, repairmen can help consumers reduce the
amount of aggravation that a broken appliance will cause.

Consider the time and effort it takes to shop for a new appliance, wait
for its delivery, remove the old one and get the new one installed.

I did mine in 30 mins total, literally.

In addition, certain appliances such as ovens and
washing machines can be a bigger hassle to replace
because they are connected to gas and water lines.

Just changed washing machines over too, with a free
one I inherited. Changing the water over took minutes too.

"It takes your time, it takes your effort, and if you don't
install the new appliance, you'll have to hire a service
technician to install it anyways," Mr. Brown said.

Only the incompetant fools that cant change the washing machine over.

Some consumers bond with their appliances like old pets,
and for loyalty or sentimental reasons, refuse to let them go.

Mr. Rana said some of his clients have appliances that are
more than 30 years old. It makes sense, he said. "A lot of old
refrigerators are worth fixing because they give people good service.

Wrong, those are normally lousy energy efficiency.

They just don't make things like they used to."

Yeah, they make them much better today energy efficiency wise.

And much better design wise too with the shelves and bins etc too.

did you know theres all qualitys of stainless, some will last literaLLY
FOREVER not so for kitchen stainless, try a magnet on stainless the
better quality is non magnetic