Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[qrk]

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
<ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

---
Mark

 

[John Larkin]

On 3 Jan 2006 00:23:24 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote in
newsan.2006.01.02.19.07.27.215209@example.net:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:49:22 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
in the sky.

What Tektronix scope do you prefer?

I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
another series?

Thanks

TMT

If Tektronix scopes are still as good as I've always known them to be,
then the only consideration should be your budget. Then get the
toppest-of-the-line you can afford.

Have Fun!
Rich




Just do not plan on repairing or calibrating them yourself.
Their "service manuals" have NO component-level schematics or parts lists.
Calibrations are done by PC-based software,and may call for test equipment
you don't have. Power supplies are purchased-parts.

The TDS scopes are engineered to be module-exchange repair only.

That's how most everything is these days.

But a TDS2012 costs what a 545 used to cost, but dollars are worth
1/10 of what they were then; a 545 used to cost as much as a new
Impala. Plus the TDS has digital storage, color display, three times
the bandwidth, weighs 1/10, uses 1/20 the power, and is probably five
times as reliable.

We're replacing our fancy power-boosted water-conserving $800 toilet
because it's impossible to repair.

John

 

[John Crighton]

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:21:03 +0100, Paul Burridge
<pb@shove.your.spam.up.your.arse.atlanticstar.co.uk> wrote:

I came across this on the 'net, which may or may not be useful in your
particular case, John...

Hello Paul,
thanks very much for sharing those gems.
I have stored them away.

I had a good laugh at your dining room table
centre piece admisssions and the follow up doily
and scope cosy remarks. Heh Heh heh.....

I must admit when I first got my 465 I just couldn't
keep my hands off it and I had it covered up with
a tea towel in between playing with it.

When you have lusted after something for decades
and you finally get it. Oh what a feeling!

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

 

[Ignoramus16356]

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
regareing this issue.

i

 

[John Crighton]

On 2 Jan 2006 16:56:05 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

John Crighton <john_c@tpg.com.au> wrote:

My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.

Everything is relative. If you think the 454 is hard to work on, you should
just SEE the insides of the 7000. Likewise the 7000 is a whole lot easier
to work on than the latest generation of digital scopes.

Yes I agree everything is relative. An easy to repair
comment should be defined a bit better, perhaps
against time or compared against something else
say removing a hard drive from a home conputer.
Half a dozen screws and the cover is off,
Pull two connectors and remove two or four
mounting screws and the hard drive is out.
I would call that easy.
A job that takes less that 15 minutes I would say is easy.

I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?

If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
contacts are tight, first.

I must admit I have never come across Cramolin. I will
ask around. If it is available in Sydney, I'll find it.

I don't see contact cleaning needed on
the scopes of this era, although some of the older ones did.
--scott

Oh, I do!
Going by the dates on the boards, I am guessing that
my 454 was built around 1968 and has spent many
years in someones backyard tin shed. The aluminium
metal work is slightly pitted meaning it has been in a
damp area. There was no filter for who knows how long,
one or two decades maybe longer, so the insides are
quite dusty.

Two years shy of forty years of age and the scope still
works. Bloody marvellous! Switches in that environment
of damp and dust can't be expected to remain clean and
reliable. I am just amazed that my 454 scope works as well
as it does even with its dodgy switch.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

 

[Jim Yanik]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
news:88ijr11sqhn4h1mebt607u21jtr9nmflg2@4ax.com:

On 3 Jan 2006 00:23:24 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote in
newsan.2006.01.02.19.07.27.215209@example.net:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:49:22 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test
Bench in the sky.

What Tektronix scope do you prefer?

I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
another series?

Thanks

TMT

If Tektronix scopes are still as good as I've always known them to
be, then the only consideration should be your budget. Then get the
toppest-of-the-line you can afford.

Have Fun!
Rich




Just do not plan on repairing or calibrating them yourself.
Their "service manuals" have NO component-level schematics or parts
lists. Calibrations are done by PC-based software,and may call for
test equipment you don't have. Power supplies are purchased-parts.

The TDS scopes are engineered to be module-exchange repair only.

That's how most everything is these days.

But a TDS2012 costs what a 545 used to cost, but dollars are worth
1/10 of what they were then; a 545 used to cost as much as a new
Impala. Plus the TDS has digital storage, color display, three times
the bandwidth, weighs 1/10, uses 1/20 the power, and is probably five
times as reliable.

We're replacing our fancy power-boosted water-conserving $800 toilet
because it's impossible to repair.

John

The point is that they are not hobbyist items anymore.
Buy one,and you better have a budget for repairs and cal,and count on it
becoming obsolete and unusable in a relatively short time.(SIX years)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Jim Yanik]

Ignoramus16356 <ignoramus16356@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote in
news:Wnkuf.11923$EW6.1144@fe26.usenetserver.com:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
regareing this issue.

i

You use the 2nd scope to troubleshoot the 1st one when it fails.
Not all problems can be troubleshot with a DMM.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Ken Scharf]

John Crighton wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:10:16 -0500, Ken Scharf
wa2mzeNOTTHIS@bellsouth.net> wrote:



I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
are easy to work on,



Hello Ken,
I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.

My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.

I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?

Slip the covers off your instrument, yes that is
very easy, a matter of seconds. Now have a look
and tell me how to clean the timebase switch?
How many hours would it take to remove the soldered
wiring off the boards so that they can be removed to
gain access to the switch and then solder the wires back
with nice factory quality solder joints, not with quick
blob soldering with insulation peeling back off the wires.
Quality work only.

Several minutes work would be easy if there was
connectors on the boards but not in this scope.
When we talk about "hours" we are in a different
category......pain in the butt/difficult.

How long would it take you, Ken, to clean the switch
from woa to go? Scope back up and working?

How long would it take you to remove the fan, fan wiring
tag strips and fan mounting brackets?
How do you get your screw driver on the screws holding
the brackets when there are modules covering them up?
Just have a quick look then come back and tell me
if you still reckon this scope is easy to work on, in the
inner sanctums.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

My comment was based on what I have read. I have the service manual

for the 454 and it is a well written book. The 454 is a a well designed
scope, and parts are available. Fixing ANY high tech scope is NOT a job
for the faint of heart, but at least the parts in the 454 are not
so small (surface mount) that you need an electron microscope to see them!
The older tube based tek's are what you want if you want to restore a
scope yourself. However, if you want to buy a scope in working condition
that you COULD fix yourself (OK substitute the word POSSIBLE for EASY) then
the 45x series is about as "modern" as you want to go.

 

[John Miles]

In article <Wnkuf.11923$EW6.1144@fe26.usenetserver.com>, ignoramus16356
@NOSPAM.16356.invalid says...

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
regareing this issue.

i

I just tracked down an intermittent in my 2467B's CRT supply, a process
that would have been a lot tougher if I hadn't had both my 485 and 2430A
clipped to various points. Scopes are cheap these days... you want at
least three.

-- jm

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------

 

[Wes Stewart]

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:25:10 GMT, Ignoramus16356
<ignoramus16356@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

When would I need two scopes?

You have two eyes don't you? [g]

 

[John Crighton]

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:26:08 -0500, Ken Scharf
<wa2mzeNOTTHIS@bellsouth.net> wrote:

John Crighton wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:10:16 -0500, Ken Scharf
wa2mzeNOTTHIS@bellsouth.net> wrote:



I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
are easy to work on,



Hello Ken,
I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.

My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.

I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?

Slip the covers off your instrument, yes that is
very easy, a matter of seconds. Now have a look
and tell me how to clean the timebase switch?
How many hours would it take to remove the soldered
wiring off the boards so that they can be removed to
gain access to the switch and then solder the wires back
with nice factory quality solder joints, not with quick
blob soldering with insulation peeling back off the wires.
Quality work only.

Several minutes work would be easy if there was
connectors on the boards but not in this scope.
When we talk about "hours" we are in a different
category......pain in the butt/difficult.

How long would it take you, Ken, to clean the switch
from woa to go? Scope back up and working?

How long would it take you to remove the fan, fan wiring
tag strips and fan mounting brackets?
How do you get your screw driver on the screws holding
the brackets when there are modules covering them up?
Just have a quick look then come back and tell me
if you still reckon this scope is easy to work on, in the
inner sanctums.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

My comment was based on what I have read. I have the service manual
for the 454 and it is a well written book. The 454 is a a well designed
scope, and parts are available.

Ken,
Remove the covers from your 454 scope and take a look
from the point of view of access to the inner assemblies.
I wonder if you still say that it is well designed?.
Deliberately threading bunches of wires (small loom) through
round holes in brackets or sub panels is weird. Why not slot holes
to the end of brackets/ sub assemblies/metal panels so that
the cable loom or wires can be slipped out of the slot if a
subassembly has to be moved. Threading wires through round
holes in small bits of metalwork so that they are tied in, I don't
like that sort of design.
No thought for the non Tek trained serviceman.

Fixing ANY high tech scope is NOT a job
for the faint of heart, but at least the parts in the 454 are not
so small (surface mount) that you need an electron microscope to see them!

Agreed.

The older tube based tek's are what you want if you want to restore a
scope yourself. However, if you want to buy a scope in working condition
that you COULD fix yourself (OK substitute the word POSSIBLE for EASY) then
the 45x series is about as "modern" as you want to go.

I settled on the 465 myself. The first was a goer with problems.
The little U shaped contacts that Bill Turner spoke off.
The second was cosmetically very nice but dead. Shorted tantalum
on the 15V suppluy.
The third was partly robbed of bits. Even had an IC fitted
back to front.
All three are working nicely now. I enjoyed repairing them.
You can get access to most of the 465s innermost parts. Not
a nightmare like the the 454 and yet the 454 gets a great right
up on many websites. I don't know why!
Sorry Ken if I appeared to jump on you.

In regard to the old tube monsters, I gave two of those
away to another enthusiast. 533A and 549.
Tubes cost a lot of money, I just could not afford
to restore them but the other chap is dead keen
to get them working. He has contacts in the US
who will send him parcels of junk picked up from
ham field days and trash and treasure markets.
He has put in his list of wanted items to his friends.

All good fun!

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

 

[James Sweet]

I just tracked down an intermittent in my 2467B's CRT supply, a process
that would have been a lot tougher if I hadn't had both my 485 and 2430A
clipped to various points. Scopes are cheap these days... you want at
least three.

Scopes are cheap, however space is not, at least not here.

I've got two scopes, a 465B and an ancient but beautiful condition 531A.
I'd get rid of the 531A but I need to find a good home for it, it's in
great shape and works perfectly.

 

[Kevin G. Rhoads]

That said, I still have a 545 on my bench at work.

What plug-ins?

 

[Chuck Harris]

John Crighton wrote:

I settled on the 465 myself. The first was a goer with problems.
The little U shaped contacts that Bill Turner spoke off.
The second was cosmetically very nice but dead. Shorted tantalum
on the 15V suppluy.
The third was partly robbed of bits. Even had an IC fitted
back to front.
All three are working nicely now. I enjoyed repairing them.
You can get access to most of the 465s innermost parts. Not
a nightmare like the the 454 and yet the 454 gets a great right
up on many websites. I don't know why!

I will second this line of thought. I have worked on both, and
the 465's, and 475's are way easier to work on than the 453/454.
The 465M is modular, and was designed to be serviced by military
module swapping automatons.

And even easier still is the 2445, and 2465. The parts problem
is a nuisance, but the scopes are wide open, and put together
with the serviceman in mind. Not to mention the fact that there
is no scope, of any vintage, that is nicer to use than a 2465.

-Chuck

OBTW, on my bench, you will find a 585A, 475, 2465, 7633/7D20...,
and a 326.

 

[Ignoramus29795]

Yep. A 2445 lets me do very nice things, like built in "caliper" kind
of thing, triggering on selected signal, blah blah. It is a great all
around scope for a dude like me.

i

 

[Saandy , 4Z5KS]

Oh well, I also wouldn't give up the Tek 454 I have. the best animal in
the analog class.
May be the only concurrent from Tektronis would be a Tek 2465. you can
get one at about 0.6 kilobuck. very nice for the money, with one of the
best triggering circuits I ever saw in 35 years in the field.
Happy new year!
Saandy 4Z5KS

 

I use DeoxIT, works better and comes in a variety of applicators. In
Sydney you can get it from http://www.caprina.com.au/catp.html or see
Caig website for info and other locations, www.caig.com.
I use the deoxIT D5 and DN5 and their proGold products. Great stuff.
Mike

John Crighton wrote:

On 2 Jan 2006 16:56:05 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

John Crighton <john_c@tpg.com.au> wrote:

My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.

Everything is relative. If you think the 454 is hard to work on, you should
just SEE the insides of the 7000. Likewise the 7000 is a whole lot easier
to work on than the latest generation of digital scopes.

Yes I agree everything is relative. An easy to repair
comment should be defined a bit better, perhaps
against time or compared against something else
say removing a hard drive from a home conputer.
Half a dozen screws and the cover is off,
Pull two connectors and remove two or four
mounting screws and the hard drive is out.
I would call that easy.
A job that takes less that 15 minutes I would say is easy.



I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?

If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
contacts are tight, first.

I must admit I have never come across Cramolin. I will
ask around. If it is available in Sydney, I'll find it.


I don't see contact cleaning needed on
the scopes of this era, although some of the older ones did.
--scott

Oh, I do!
Going by the dates on the boards, I am guessing that
my 454 was built around 1968 and has spent many
years in someones backyard tin shed. The aluminium
metal work is slightly pitted meaning it has been in a
damp area. There was no filter for who knows how long,
one or two decades maybe longer, so the insides are
quite dusty.

Two years shy of forty years of age and the scope still
works. Bloody marvellous! Switches in that environment
of damp and dust can't be expected to remain clean and
reliable. I am just amazed that my 454 scope works as well
as it does even with its dodgy switch.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

 

[GregS]

In article <1136301771.166855.147160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mkim54@aol.com wrote:

I use DeoxIT, works better and comes in a variety of applicators. In
Sydney you can get it from http://www.caprina.com.au/catp.html or see
Caig website for info and other locations, www.caig.com.
I use the deoxIT D5 and DN5 and their proGold products. Great stuff.
Mike

I worked on an old Nicolet The switches were terrible, most all of them.
I spent weeks trying to clean all the switches, mostly the rotary ones.
I had to use all my toughest cleaners. The hardest part was getting into the
partly sealed switches. I used my best cleaners, alcohol, Contaclean,
Alcohol-Cramolin, Bufffrog cleaner. Over and over. I didn't use Deoxit, because
I ran out. Cramolin is no longer sold as Cramolin. Its called Contaclean by
the Cramolin Co. a German company. Available from InOne, Farnell.

John Crighton wrote:
On 2 Jan 2006 16:56:05 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

John Crighton <john_c@tpg.com.au> wrote:

My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.

Everything is relative. If you think the 454 is hard to work on, you should
just SEE the insides of the 7000. Likewise the 7000 is a whole lot easier
to work on than the latest generation of digital scopes.

Yes I agree everything is relative. An easy to repair
comment should be defined a bit better, perhaps
against time or compared against something else
say removing a hard drive from a home conputer.
Half a dozen screws and the cover is off,
Pull two connectors and remove two or four
mounting screws and the hard drive is out.
I would call that easy.
A job that takes less that 15 minutes I would say is easy.



I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?

If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
contacts are tight, first.

I must admit I have never come across Cramolin. I will
ask around. If it is available in Sydney, I'll find it.


I don't see contact cleaning needed on
the scopes of this era, although some of the older ones did.
--scott

Oh, I do!
Going by the dates on the boards, I am guessing that
my 454 was built around 1968 and has spent many
years in someones backyard tin shed. The aluminium
metal work is slightly pitted meaning it has been in a
damp area. There was no filter for who knows how long,
one or two decades maybe longer, so the insides are
quite dusty.

Two years shy of forty years of age and the scope still
works. Bloody marvellous! Switches in that environment
of damp and dust can't be expected to remain clean and
reliable. I am just amazed that my 454 scope works as well
as it does even with its dodgy switch.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

 

[Scott Dorsey]

Ignoramus16356 <ignoramus16356@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:04:57 GMT, Ignoramus32654
ignoramus32654@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:

I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.

Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.

When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
regareing this issue.

When one of your scopes breaks. How will you fix it, without a second
scope?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

I use deoxIt and progold (now DeoxIT GOLD) now since a friend of mine
received it in an Agilent test equipment at work.
I figure if it is spec'ed in there it must be the best. They have an
interesting site, with lots of information and ways of using their
products.
I have a treo 650 which was not charging and communicating - a few
wipes with Progold, oops deoxIT gold and everything is working
perfectly now.