Too far from exchange for ADSL?

[WDino]

Ok It appears that I have made an incorrect assumption from the information
supplied to me from a Telstra technical bod.
One pair for ADSL.
BUT, crosstalk IS measured and DOES come into whether a pair can be used for
ADSL.
My assumption when told that was that two pairs were needed since crosstalk
can only be between two pairs. But further investigation cleared it up. It
is the crosstalk to all of the other pairs in the cables between your
location and the exchange or any other device like a RIM. This is especially
true if there are any other ADSL subscribers in those cables.

Next, because the likelyhood of there being other ADSL users in main cables,
it is usually is of great advantage if the cable connecting any "roadside
concentrator" - his words, not mine - is optical fibre.

Finally, Telstra IS actively trying to get people off Dial-Up Internet. Why?
I was not told.

 

[Nick W]

WDino wrote in message ...

Ok It appears that I have made an incorrect assumption from the information
supplied to me from a Telstra technical bod.

Sure they weren't a salescritter?

One pair for ADSL.
BUT, crosstalk IS measured and DOES come into whether a pair can be used
for
ADSL.

No, it's not. Aside from pairgain issues, the only thing that service
qualification does is *calculate* the transmission loss of the particular
cable feed.

My assumption when told that was that two pairs were needed since crosstalk
can only be between two pairs. But further investigation cleared it up. It
is the crosstalk to all of the other pairs in the cables between your
location and the exchange or any other device like a RIM. This is
especially
true if there are any other ADSL subscribers in those cables.

Nope. Wrong again.
There's a reason that the calculated transmission loss is 56dB. So crosstalk
won't occur. The effects of crosstalk would have been calculated when the
techs were deciding what to make the new transmission loss limit, but it's
not calculated every time someone orders ADSL
In theory people further out could get ADSL at 1.5Mbit, but then their
particular DSLAM/CMUX/ASAM channel would have to be 'turned up', and that
could cause crosstalk problems, so we're all stuck at the same limit.
You sure this Telstra person you're talking to isn't from Sales?

Next, because the likelyhood of there being other ADSL users in main
cables,
it is usually is of great advantage if the cable connecting any "roadside
concentrator" - his words, not mine - is optical fibre.

Wrong again. More than likely if someone's service is fed via a "roadside
concentrator" as you put it, that is connected by optical fibre back to the
main switch, then it's a RIM (Integrated or Non-Integrated) or a CMUX-AU.
Not all CMUX-AU's are setup for ADSL, only a few I-RIM's are (using a
MiniMux), and you cannot get ADSL via a Non-Integrated RIM.

Finally, Telstra IS actively trying to get people off Dial-Up Internet.
Why?
I was not told.

Possibly because broadband makes more money?

Nick

PS Magilla if you're around I'd like to talk to you off-NG. Your
stupidmonkey address OK?

 

[Terry Collins]

WDino wrote:

BUT, crosstalk IS measured and DOES come into whether a pair can be used for
ADSL.

My understanding is that not all pairs in a cable can be used for ADSL
because ADSL causes increased cross-talk (wider frequencies used).

This may have change as techo's have found practical tricks to remove
the problems, but I'd be surprised since it is all sub-contracted to
$$$$ making companies.

Finally, Telstra IS actively trying to get people off Dial-Up Internet. Why?
I was not told.

The reason I went off Dial up was that ADSL was the same price and only
going to get cheaper (relatively) in the future. I am now spending less
on ADSL that I did on dial up.

 

[Rod Speed]

WDino <contact@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Ivdoc.33417$TT.8344@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Ok It appears that I have made an incorrect assumption from
the information supplied to me from a Telstra technical bod.

One pair for ADSL.

BUT, crosstalk IS measured

Nope, nothing is measured at all with residential adsl.

There is a CALCULATION of the nett loss using
the database data of the length of run of each
wire guage involved in the run between the
exchange etc and the potential customer's house.

and DOES come into whether a pair can be used for ADSL.

Nope.

My assumption when told that was that two pairs were
needed since crosstalk can only be between two pairs.
But further investigation cleared it up. It is the crosstalk
to all of the other pairs in the cables between your
location and the exchange or any other device like a RIM.

Not even practical to measure, even if they wanted to.

This is especially true if there are any
other ADSL subscribers in those cables.

You wont find any examples in whirlfool where a customer
who is well within the distance limit has been refused an
adsl service because of any purported crosstalk problem.

Next, because the likelyhood of there being other ADSL
users in main cables, it is usually is of great advantage
if the cable connecting any "roadside concentrator"
- his words, not mine - is optical fibre.

Utterly mangled all over again. There aint any RIMs
that dont use fibre optic back to the parent exchange.

And the vast bulk of current adsl customers arent getting
an adsl service from one of those, they are getting an
adsl service over a copper pair back to the full exchange.

Finally, Telstra IS actively trying
to get people off Dial-Up Internet.

Bullshit. They're just pushing adsl because that generates
more revenue for them from that particular copper pair.

Why? I was not told.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

 

[Rod Speed]

Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:40A187CC.B940CA22@woa.com.au...

WDino wrote:

BUT, crosstalk IS measured and DOES come
into whether a pair can be used for ADSL.

My understanding is that not all pairs in a cable can be used for ADSL
because ADSL causes increased cross-talk (wider frequencies used).

In practice that is what determines the calculated transmission loss allowed.

And that is calculated, not measure for the individual new connection.

This may have change as techo's have found practical
tricks to remove the problems, but I'd be surprised since
it is all sub-contracted to $$$$ making companies.

All they did was set the 56dB transmission
loss level so crosstalk isnt a problem.

And they initially set that too conservatively
and have since relaxed it a bit.

Finally, Telstra IS actively trying to get people
off Dial-Up Internet. Why? I was not told.

The reason I went off Dial up was that ADSL was the same
price and only going to get cheaper (relatively) in the future.
I am now spending less on ADSL that I did on dial up.

Dialup is still cheaper if you dont make too many calls a day.

Nothing like as convenient tho, particularly with voice calls.

 

[WDino]

Usually I don't reply to people like Rod Speed.
But Rod, everything that you have said is incorrect.
Again! SO why not give up.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some silly little gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
WDino <contact@bigpond.com> desperately attempted to
bullshit its way out of its predicament in message
news:wQCoc.35573$TT.536@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
and fooled absolutely no one at all.

Try harder, fuckwit. You might actually
manage to fool someone, sometime.

 

[Nick W]

WDino wrote in message ...

Usually I don't reply to people like Rod Speed.
But Rod, everything that you have said is incorrect.
Again! SO why not give up.

Err, no.
Usually I don't agree with Rod (or at least see level eye-to-eye), but in
this case he is correct on every point he's made.

Nick

 

[Alex Kethel]

David
Even if your line is fault free, it is the attenuation of the signal with
distance that is the problem .As the line gets longer the capacitance and
inductance of the copper pair gets higher, along with the conductor
resistance of the pair. The higher frequencies are greatest affected, which
is no good for data. If you are more than couple of Km from exchange, then
no ADSL
Alex (retired Telstra PTTO1)

"David L. Jones" <tronnort@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:894aa0b3.0405072110.8e7f546@posting.google.com...

My application for ADSL connection (with OzEmail) just got rejected
for the following reason:

"Reason: Your residence is too far from your local telephone exchange.
The distance between your premises and your local telephone exchange
is too
great for the ADSL Broadband service. ADSL is a distance-sensitive
service and
reliability has been deemed unattainable between you and your
exchange."

Great lot of good that does me after just buying my ADSL modem based
on their "Click here to see if your line supports ADSL" test which
said it was available to my line

Anyone had a similar problem?
Any way to get around it?
Was it maybe something at my end which caused the test to fail?
Can I just go to some other provider and tell them to connect me
regardless and live with a potentially less than optimum bandwidth?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Dave

 

[Rod Speed]

Alex Kethel <alexkethel@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:40aafac4$0$8990$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Even if your line is fault free, it is the attenuation of the signal with
distance that is the problem .As the line gets longer the capacitance
and inductance of the copper pair gets higher, along with the conductor
resistance of the pair. The higher frequencies are greatest affected,
which is no good for data. If you are more than couple of Km from
exchange, then no ADSL

More than 4 KM actually.

Alex (retired Telstra PTTO1)

No wonder you got the bums rush.

"David L. Jones" <tronnort@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:894aa0b3.0405072110.8e7f546@posting.google.com...
My application for ADSL connection (with OzEmail) just got rejected
for the following reason:

"Reason: Your residence is too far from your local telephone exchange.
The distance between your premises and your local telephone exchange
is too
great for the ADSL Broadband service. ADSL is a distance-sensitive
service and
reliability has been deemed unattainable between you and your
exchange."

Great lot of good that does me after just buying my ADSL modem based
on their "Click here to see if your line supports ADSL" test which
said it was available to my line

Anyone had a similar problem?
Any way to get around it?
Was it maybe something at my end which caused the test to fail?
Can I just go to some other provider and tell them to connect me
regardless and live with a potentially less than optimum bandwidth?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Dave