J
JW
Guest
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
Guest
On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 3:59:29 PM UTC-4, JW wrote:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
Too lazy to read the link but I know for a fact that name brand batteries (Duracell and Energizer specifically) are known to be counterfeited. Not saying that has anything to do with the link but just throwing that out there.
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
Too lazy to read the link but I know for a fact that name brand batteries (Duracell and Energizer specifically) are known to be counterfeited. Not saying that has anything to do with the link but just throwing that out there.
Guest
Is that to say you concur that they are counterfeit ?
We have had counterfeit semiconductors, and mostly they are not just an empty package, there is a transistor in there just it is inferior to the JANX or JEDEC or whatever makes the numbers standardized.
So say you own a battery company making an inferior part what do you do to make more money ? Just change the label, right ? Well that is how business is now. It's like they might take a 2N3055 and relabel it MJ15024. So they get six bucks instead of three bucks.
Before they did that they talked with the lawyers and the accountants and figured out what the gamble was, how much would it cost the in lawsuits in the worst case scenario and what are the chances of that happening ? Believe it or not I am about to get involved in exactly that about some amplifiers that need a physical modification because the bias regulators are not held to the heat sink. You know that is going to fry out. At this time, they have been lazy and uncooperative so I will put it to them - "Just sell them, and call them refurbs and give a very short warranty, you hurt your company name but we get these things the hell outta here". Actually I want a different job, these people are too "corporate" for me.
They give lip service but that's it. They come bitching about how stuff is piled up and I say "Buy some shelves, even those elcheapo plastic ones would work from the DIY that you stick together with the tubing". It has been three weeks. No shelves.
So they get from me what I get from them. I am just going to fix the obvious problem and ship them. Then they can refund all that money. It is not my problem.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:
>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
.... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
surprised.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
.... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
surprised.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
J
JW
Guest
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:20:59 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote in Message id: <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com>:
Don't short them, then.
How did the short happen? An experiment?
wrote in Message id: <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com>:
Don't short them, then.
How did the short happen? An experiment?
B
Benderthe.evilrobot
Guest
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com...
IME: They're no less likely to leak than cheap brands if left in equipment
for a long time.
The real disappointment is they don't last significantly longer than the
pack of 6 Kodak Extralife from the Ł store.
news:6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com...
IME: They're no less likely to leak than cheap brands if left in equipment
for a long time.
The real disappointment is they don't last significantly longer than the
pack of 6 Kodak Extralife from the Ł store.
F
Fred McKenzie
Guest
In article <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Jeff-
My experience over the years is that any Alkaline cell can leak and ruin
whatever it is in.
I have switched to "Energizer Ultimate Lithium" AA and AAA cells. They
claim to have more capacity to justify higher cost. Perhaps they do,
but my main concern is leakage. So far, I have not had any leak. Do
you have an opinion?
Fred
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Jeff-
My experience over the years is that any Alkaline cell can leak and ruin
whatever it is in.
I have switched to "Energizer Ultimate Lithium" AA and AAA cells. They
claim to have more capacity to justify higher cost. Perhaps they do,
but my main concern is leakage. So far, I have not had any leak. Do
you have an opinion?
Fred
G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
"JW" wrote in message news:hnjotbt9nofrij5epr9s6nhshbr07vt2p3@4ax.com...
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine packaging.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine packaging.
R
Rheilly Phoull
Guest
On 17/09/2016 3:59 AM, JW wrote:
discharged but nowadays they do. Caused me lots of problems with various
bits of kit. they must have changed the construction or suppliers.
We used to buy them all the time and they never leaked when fully
discharged but nowadays they do. Caused me lots of problems with various
bits of kit. they must have changed the construction or suppliers.
G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
wrote in message
news:10ed962d-f166-4618-a6ff-5a24c08af2ba@googlegroups.com...
Is that to say you concur that they are counterfeit ?
Look, I haven't the time or inclination to wade through your pages of
waffle,
but yes, Counterfeit is a definite probability.
As is trolling. i.e. trying to discredit something or other via a
newsgroup.
Don't buy it.
news:10ed962d-f166-4618-a6ff-5a24c08af2ba@googlegroups.com...
Is that to say you concur that they are counterfeit ?
Look, I haven't the time or inclination to wade through your pages of
waffle,
but yes, Counterfeit is a definite probability.
As is trolling. i.e. trying to discredit something or other via a
newsgroup.
Don't buy it.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:33:16 -0400, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:
The pictures were supplied by a friend. His desk is a mountain of
junk, some of it conductive. Brand new battery got tossed onto the
pile, where the exposed leads were shorted by something. Some time
later (delay unknown), there was a loud bang. It took him some time
to find the culprit, which was then photographed.
Unfortunately, he tossed the batteries before I could get my hands on
them to determine if they were real or counterfeit. I can't tell from
the photos. I bought an identical battery from a local retailer,
shorted the terminals with a #12 solid copper wire, and waited for the
explosion. Nothing but some noises from venting gasses, some smoke,
and plenty of heat. No bang. So, it might have been one cell with a
blocked vent plug, or possibly a counterfeit battery.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:20:59 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote in Message id: <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1hjr0m0jejffg7c5j9@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html
Don't short them, then.
How did the short happen? An experiment?
The pictures were supplied by a friend. His desk is a mountain of
junk, some of it conductive. Brand new battery got tossed onto the
pile, where the exposed leads were shorted by something. Some time
later (delay unknown), there was a loud bang. It took him some time
to find the culprit, which was then photographed.
Unfortunately, he tossed the batteries before I could get my hands on
them to determine if they were real or counterfeit. I can't tell from
the photos. I bought an identical battery from a local retailer,
shorted the terminals with a #12 solid copper wire, and waited for the
explosion. Nothing but some noises from venting gasses, some smoke,
and plenty of heat. No bang. So, it might have been one cell with a
blocked vent plug, or possibly a counterfeit battery.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:49:44 -0400, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com>
wrote:
Agreed. I have a fair collection of flashlights that were ruined by
junk batteries. However, I don't keep records and have no data on
which cells are the culprits, or how long one can expect them to last
before leaking. Mostly, I use Costco Kirkland brand, which seems
better than most, but still eventually leaks.
They're very good batteries, but also rather expensive.
<http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?368072-Test-Review-of-Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA>
In AA, these are $2/ea versus about $0.40/ea for Kirkland AA alkaline.
Where possible, I prefer to sustitute rechargeable NiCd or NiMH
batteries for alkaline, or purchase something that runs on LiIon. So
far, the Eneloop NiMH cells, which have a very low self discharge
rate, seem the best compromise between performance, life, self
discharge, and cost at about $2/ea.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
Agreed. I have a fair collection of flashlights that were ruined by
junk batteries. However, I don't keep records and have no data on
which cells are the culprits, or how long one can expect them to last
before leaking. Mostly, I use Costco Kirkland brand, which seems
better than most, but still eventually leaks.
They're very good batteries, but also rather expensive.
<http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?368072-Test-Review-of-Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA>
In AA, these are $2/ea versus about $0.40/ea for Kirkland AA alkaline.
Where possible, I prefer to sustitute rechargeable NiCd or NiMH
batteries for alkaline, or purchase something that runs on LiIon. So
far, the Eneloop NiMH cells, which have a very low self discharge
rate, seem the best compromise between performance, life, self
discharge, and cost at about $2/ea.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
M
Mr. Man-wai Chang
Guest
On 17/09/16 03:59, JW wrote:
IN addition to posting the source URL link, you should also write a
summary so that we don't need to waste time to read the long chat log...
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸ĺ貸! ä¸čŠé¨! ä¸ć´äş¤! ä¸ć交! ä¸ćĺŤ! ä¸čŞćŽş! čŤčć Žçść´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
IN addition to posting the source URL link, you should also write a
summary so that we don't need to waste time to read the long chat log...
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸ĺ貸! ä¸čŠé¨! ä¸ć´äş¤! ä¸ć交! ä¸ćĺŤ! ä¸čŞćŽş! čŤčć Žçść´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:56:31 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:
"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>
Leaking Duracell battery video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLx32dSwoQ>
Quite a few consumer complaints about leaking batteries:
<http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=duracell>
Photos of another Duracell battery leaks while still in the package:
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/index.htm>
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/images/IMG_2547.jpg>
Exploding AA Duracell:
<https://russmcduff.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/exploding-aa-duracell-battery/>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:
"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>
Leaking Duracell battery video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLx32dSwoQ>
Quite a few consumer complaints about leaking batteries:
<http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=duracell>
Photos of another Duracell battery leaks while still in the package:
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/index.htm>
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/images/IMG_2547.jpg>
Exploding AA Duracell:
<https://russmcduff.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/exploding-aa-duracell-battery/>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
J
JW
Guest
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 23:06:54 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in Message id:
<nrjm68$2jf$1@dont-email.me>:
Tough titty, asshat.
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in Message id:
<nrjm68$2jf$1@dont-email.me>:
Tough titty, asshat.
G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:56rqtbl5f1lgm9nbet1qvdunk318253rkg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:56:31 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:
"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>
Jeff, I think you will find that the OP posted photos of packaged unused
batteries that had leaked before use.
Gareth.
news:56rqtbl5f1lgm9nbet1qvdunk318253rkg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:56:31 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:
"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>
Jeff, I think you will find that the OP posted photos of packaged unused
batteries that had leaked before use.
Gareth.
G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
"Anecdotal evidence" is a bit of an Oxymoron, surely?
Gareth.
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
"Anecdotal evidence" is a bit of an Oxymoron, surely?
Gareth.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 22:25:46 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
Not really, unless you prefer the quantity of evidence over the
quality of evidence. The only problem with anecdotal evidence is the
lack of a sufficiently large sample for the observations to be
considered statistically relevant. However, that happens in a court
of law all the time. For example, all you need is one witness and a
corroborating witness to send someone to jail. That's no larger a
sample size of the possible observations than the leaking Duracell in
it's customer proof plastic packaging. Similarly, in civil trials,
it's the preponderance of evidence that decides the outcome, which is
nothing more than what each side can produce as anecdotal evidence.
Much as I would like to have peer reviewed, authoritative, and
properly documented evidence, with copious footnotes and sources, it's
unlikely to happen on the internet. If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
Not really, unless you prefer the quantity of evidence over the
quality of evidence. The only problem with anecdotal evidence is the
lack of a sufficiently large sample for the observations to be
considered statistically relevant. However, that happens in a court
of law all the time. For example, all you need is one witness and a
corroborating witness to send someone to jail. That's no larger a
sample size of the possible observations than the leaking Duracell in
it's customer proof plastic packaging. Similarly, in civil trials,
it's the preponderance of evidence that decides the outcome, which is
nothing more than what each side can produce as anecdotal evidence.
Much as I would like to have peer reviewed, authoritative, and
properly documented evidence, with copious footnotes and sources, it's
unlikely to happen on the internet. If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:eofrtbddlf5fviu1d8vm7eivqq1c4kifra@4ax.com...
If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff,
I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.
Don't try and trade them as facts.
Gareth.
news:eofrtbddlf5fviu1d8vm7eivqq1c4kifra@4ax.com...
If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff,
I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.
Don't try and trade them as facts.
Gareth.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 00:52:41 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
Is that an invitation to exchange insults? Gosh, I haven't done that
in maybe 10 years. I'm not sure I remember how to be abusive,
abrasive, and obnoxious. However, I'll give it my best effort while
attempting to stay on topic. Let's see... leaking Duracell batteries.
Kinda sounds like your ability to scribble something worth reading is
running down. Since you're obviously running on Duracell batteries, I
suggest you upgrade to something rechargeable, which should provide
the necessary brain boost.
How am I doing? Your turn.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<soundserviceleeds@outlook.com> wrote:
Is that an invitation to exchange insults? Gosh, I haven't done that
in maybe 10 years. I'm not sure I remember how to be abusive,
abrasive, and obnoxious. However, I'll give it my best effort while
attempting to stay on topic. Let's see... leaking Duracell batteries.
Kinda sounds like your ability to scribble something worth reading is
running down. Since you're obviously running on Duracell batteries, I
suggest you upgrade to something rechargeable, which should provide
the necessary brain boost.
How am I doing? Your turn.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558