The world's first robot controlled exclusively by living bra

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 16, 3:26 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 7:04 am, "Spaceman" <space...@yourclockmalfunctioned.duh
wrote:





Immortalist wrote:
On Aug 14, 7:37 am, "Spaceman" <space...@yourclockmalfunctioned.duh
wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Oh crap,
The creation of the Dalak race has begun.


Dalek is a member of a fictional extraterrestrial race of mutants from
the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. Daleks are
organisms from the planet Skaro, integrated within a tank-like
mechanical casing. The resulting creatures are a powerful race bent on
universal conquest and domination, utterly without pity, compassion or
remorse (as all of their emotions were removed except hate). They are
also, collectively, the greatest extraterrestrial enemies of the Time
Lord known as the Doctor. Their most famous catchphrase is "EX-TER-MI-
NATE!", with each syllable individually screeched in a frantic
electronic voice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek

Yes, I knew all that, but sadly now humans have created the "proto-type".
Good thing there will be no "TARDIS" nor any "real" timewars.


But what about Agent Smith and the Matrix possibility? In the future
put humans in a dream state where they believe it is way back now;

If your attention is on some future outcome or past experience, you
are dreaming. Perfectly natural, but not real.

BOfL

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 17, 12:53 am, zinnic <zeenr...@gate.net> wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:





A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.
Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar....

Mystics again have to fold their tents and retreat furthur and furthur
into the  boundless desert of their 'unpromising' land.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No need for promise in the world of knowing. Everything I have read
here confirms what I have already grasped (as an apprentice mystic).

The speculation is that the metabolic stimulus of the tubles comes
from quantum theory.

The intellectuals progress further into the world of theory. Always
filling in the gaps between the dissection process with conjecture.

I admire them in the same way as I admire the likes of Phelps.
Fantastic effort, remarkable dedication, and wonderful entertainment.

In the same way, I question if I would be willing to swim up and down
a lane for many hours a day for many years, imposing incredible pain
to my organism.
I wonder if this activity would be persued if done in isolation, with
no recognition or acknowledgment from your fellows?

I cannot begin to imagine that scenario. Ironic, when one starts to
realize that the "real" journey is precisely that, without the pain
and boring repetative nature of the 'relative search'.

BOfL

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 17, 12:56 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 16, 9:53 am, zinnic <zeenr...@gate.net> wrote:





On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.
Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Mystics again have to fold their tents and retreat furthur and furthur
into the  boundless desert of their 'unpromising' land.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What's a "mystic"?  Someone who doesn't think we know everything?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thats rather like a fish asking what a bird is, when it can only
relate to water.

A good definition could be "Someone who does knows we think
everything"

BOfL

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 17, 1:00 am, John <n...@droffats.ten> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
The article is probably true, there was a preceeding experiment:
rat cells control flight simulator:
 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041022104658.htm
Yes it is in some nutricient, and it seems they add chemicals as
'reward' or 'punishment' to correct action (feedback in the neural net)..
Hope I got that one right.

How neurons select connections is an intriguing subject. The
impoverished (simple) configuration described in the article should
persuade the curious to consider reading Stephen Wolfram's book, _A New
Kind of Science_.

What do you make of David Deuche's writings?

BOfL

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 16, 3:39 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 7:16 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Aug 15, 1:02 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 4:43 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.

Their groundbreaking experiments explore the vanishing boundary
between natural and artificial intelligence, and could shed light on
the fundamental building blocks of memory and learning, one of the
lead researchers told AFP.

"The purpose is to figure out how memories are actually stored in a
biological brain," said Kevin Warwick, a professor at the University
of Reading and one of the robot's principle architects.

Observing how the nerve cells cohere into a network as they fire off
electrical impulses, he said, may also help scientists combat
neurodegenerative diseases that attack the brain such as Alzheimer's
and Parkinson's.

"If we can understand some of the basics of what is going on in our
little model brain, it could have enormous medical spinoffs," he said.

Looking a bit like the garbage-compacting hero of the blockbuster
animation "Wall-E", Gordon has a brain composed of 50,000 to 100,000
active neurons.

Once removed from rat foetuses and disentangled from each other with
an enzyme bath, the specialised nerve cells are laid out in a nutrient-
rich medium across an eight-by-eight centimetre (five-by-five inch)
array of 60 electrodes.

This "multi-electrode array" (MEA) serves as the interface between
living tissue and machine, with the brain sending electrical impulses
to drive the wheels of the robots, and receiving impulses delivered by
sensors reacting to the environment.

Because the brain is living tissue, it must be housed in a special
temperature-controlled unit -- it communicates with its "body" via a
Bluetooth radio link.

The robot has no additional control from a human or computer.

From the very start, the neurons get busy. "Within about 24 hours,
they start sending out feelers to each other and making connections,"
said Warwick.

"Within a week we get some spontaneous firings and brain-like
activity" similar to what happens in a normal rat -- or human --
brain, he added.

But without external stimulation, the brain will wither and die within
a couple of months.

"Now we are looking at how best to teach it to behave in certain
ways," explained Warwick.

To some extent, Gordon learns by itself. When it hits a wall, for
example, it gets an electrical stimulation from the robot's sensors.
As it confronts similar situations, it learns by habit.

To help this process along, the researchers also use different
chemicals to reinforce or inhibit the neural pathways that light up
during particular actions.

Gordon, in fact, has multiple personalities -- several MEA "brains"
that the scientists can dock into the robot.

"It's quite funny -- you get differences between the brains," said
Warwick. "This one is a bit boisterous and active, while we know
another is not going to do what we want it to."

Mainly for ethical reasons, it is unlikely that researchers at Reading
or the handful of laboratories around the world exploring the same
terrain will be using human neurons any time soon in the same kind of
experiments.

But rats brain cells are not a bad stand-in: much of the difference
between rodent and human intelligence, speculates Warwick, could be
attributed to quantity not quality.

Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Interesting game.  But, is it really anything more than that?  I often
have the feeling, these days, that scientific experiments aren't
really intended to accomplish anything at all, other than attract
attention.  What really are they trying to design with this particular
monstrosity, other than the outline for a research grant?

Should they throw it away then because it will be abused but possibly
developed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTImvP8M-Q&feature=related-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Somehow, I'm not too worried about that possibility.  What worries me
isn't that this is going to lead to the "Terminator".  What worries me
is that it is extremely unlikely to lead to anything, and was only
proposed because it sounds a bit like the "Terminator".

Can explain why you believe it will ever, in the near or even far
future lead to anything? Using only nerve cells seems like a major
step, like inventing the transistor or something. This could be so
revolutionary that it changes everything in the information world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is a difference between using and inventing.

"We" use "our" brains to "invent".

The intellect attempts to reverse that order. It tries to invent our
brains to discover 'we'.

BOfL

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 16, 3:36 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 4:53 am, Errol <vs.er...@gmail.com> wrote:





http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_quantum%20mind.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dont you just love the language. Micro tubules "can" switch from
relaxation to contraction. Cells are metabolically active, and micro
tubules seem to be essential to metabolic activity.

This is really brilliant research, and I take my hat of to such
incredible intellects. They are the Olympians of their field. Higher,
stronger and swifter.

Keep dissecting. Like the swimmer, you will have a job for life.

BOfL

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 7:40 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:39 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 7:16 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 1:02 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 4:43 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.

Their groundbreaking experiments explore the vanishing boundary
between natural and artificial intelligence, and could shed light on
the fundamental building blocks of memory and learning, one of the
lead researchers told AFP.

"The purpose is to figure out how memories are actually stored in a
biological brain," said Kevin Warwick, a professor at the University
of Reading and one of the robot's principle architects.

Observing how the nerve cells cohere into a network as they fire off
electrical impulses, he said, may also help scientists combat
neurodegenerative diseases that attack the brain such as Alzheimer's
and Parkinson's.

"If we can understand some of the basics of what is going on in our
little model brain, it could have enormous medical spinoffs," he said.

Looking a bit like the garbage-compacting hero of the blockbuster
animation "Wall-E", Gordon has a brain composed of 50,000 to 100,000
active neurons.

Once removed from rat foetuses and disentangled from each other with
an enzyme bath, the specialised nerve cells are laid out in a nutrient-
rich medium across an eight-by-eight centimetre (five-by-five inch)
array of 60 electrodes.

This "multi-electrode array" (MEA) serves as the interface between
living tissue and machine, with the brain sending electrical impulses
to drive the wheels of the robots, and receiving impulses delivered by
sensors reacting to the environment.

Because the brain is living tissue, it must be housed in a special
temperature-controlled unit -- it communicates with its "body" via a
Bluetooth radio link.

The robot has no additional control from a human or computer.

From the very start, the neurons get busy. "Within about 24 hours,
they start sending out feelers to each other and making connections,"
said Warwick.

"Within a week we get some spontaneous firings and brain-like
activity" similar to what happens in a normal rat -- or human --
brain, he added.

But without external stimulation, the brain will wither and die within
a couple of months.

"Now we are looking at how best to teach it to behave in certain
ways," explained Warwick.

To some extent, Gordon learns by itself. When it hits a wall, for
example, it gets an electrical stimulation from the robot's sensors.
As it confronts similar situations, it learns by habit.

To help this process along, the researchers also use different
chemicals to reinforce or inhibit the neural pathways that light up
during particular actions.

Gordon, in fact, has multiple personalities -- several MEA "brains"
that the scientists can dock into the robot.

"It's quite funny -- you get differences between the brains," said
Warwick. "This one is a bit boisterous and active, while we know
another is not going to do what we want it to."

Mainly for ethical reasons, it is unlikely that researchers at Reading
or the handful of laboratories around the world exploring the same
terrain will be using human neurons any time soon in the same kind of
experiments.

But rats brain cells are not a bad stand-in: much of the difference
between rodent and human intelligence, speculates Warwick, could be
attributed to quantity not quality.

Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Interesting game. But, is it really anything more than that? I often
have the feeling, these days, that scientific experiments aren't
really intended to accomplish anything at all, other than attract
attention. What really are they trying to design with this particular
monstrosity, other than the outline for a research grant?

- Hide quoted text -





- Show quoted text -
Should they throw it away then because it will be abused but possibly
developed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTImvP8M-Q&feature=related-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

Somehow, I'm not too worried about that possibility. What worries me
isn't that this is going to lead to the "Terminator". What worries me
is that it is extremely unlikely to lead to anything, and was only
proposed because it sounds a bit like the "Terminator".

Can explain why you believe it will ever, in the near or even far
future lead to anything? Using only nerve cells seems like a major
step, like inventing the transistor or something. This could be so
revolutionary that it changes everything in the information world.

Not really. We've hooked up electrodes to the human brain that
allowed people to crudely manipulate devices. But, we haven't
proceeded to be able to manipulate much of anything psychokinetically,
for practical purposes. Now we have a few neurons that can be used to
very crudely manipulate something. The problem isn't the general
concept. It's the crudeness of the technique. And the total abscence
of any general approach to structure the research process so as to
refine the technology. Scientists are good speculators. But,
frequently, they are very bad at moving from theory to practice.
Perhaps because the system doesn't really reward results. Neurons
produce electrochemical discharges, obviously these discharges can be
used to crudely influence an electronic system. But, to produce
something of real practical value, that may be a qualitatively
different step. Which the scientists have no way of knowing how to
proceed to. And may not which to proceed to, if they have no
incentive to do so.

The neat thing about this is that there is already an exposed plan for
developing bio-computers like mammal brains. The genes direct the
assembly of multiple cells and steer them here and there with chemical
gradients until a full brain sort of happens. All these researchers
need to do is learn to "steer" or "herd" these downhill processes and
find structures events in nature would not allow because of survival.

Embryogenesis is the process by which the embryo is formed and
develops. It starts with the fertilization of the ovum, egg, which,
after fertilization, is then called a zygote. The zygote undergoes
rapid mitotic divisions, the formation of two exact genetic replicates
of the original cell, with no significant growth (a process known as
cleavage) and cellular differentiation, leading to development of an
embryo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryogenesis

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 6:14 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Immortalist wrote:
A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Maybe, but a rat brain interface was used to fly an F16 simulator years ago.http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/11/02/brain.dish/

Science as Consensus

One of the most important proponents of the "science as consensus"
view of knowledge has been Thomas Kuhn. He set forth his concept of
the scientific paradigm when he published, "The Structure of
Scientific Revolutions". For Kuhn, scientific paradigms include, "law,
theory, application, and instrumentation together -- [and] provide
models from which spring particular coherent traditions of scientific
research" (1, p. 10). The paradigm view of science pictures the
successful scientific community as a consensus group possessing a
paradigm with increasing professional acknowledgment. The concluding
analogy used to illustrate the process of choice between conflicting
views of nature (or paradigms) is evolutionary natural selection.
Science is advanced through, "conflict within the scientific community
of the fittest way to practice science" (1, p. 172). This view of
scientific discovery has three phases to its structure.

[First] is the pre-paradigm phase which is characterized by various
schools of thought vying for position but without sufficient
explanatory successes to their credit to gain preeminence. In this
phase the various paradigms are relatively vague and therefore new
observations can be accommodated because the paradigm's indefinite
form does not clearly demarcate what are acceptable or unacceptable
results. Discovery occurs as a result of the more or less random
observations made and utilized to formulate a more structured paradigm
view.

[Second] is the "normal-science" phase where a clearly demarcated
paradigm view has been established as most successful in the eyes of
the majority of scientists in that field. In this case research is
conducted for, "determination of significant facts, matching of facts
with theory, and articulation of theory" (1, p. 34). Discovery of
facts that do not fit into the paradigm view are not expected and when
"successful" none are found.

[Third] is the "revolutionary science" phase where the emergence of
anomalies begin to challenge the reigning paradigm view. In this case
researchers uncover certain facts that can not be fitted within the
more precise paradigm in a straight forward manner. Those anomalies
which stubbornly remain irreconcilable have the potential to become
what are called "revolutionary anomalies." A key to the next step is
described by Kuhn as a "period of pronounced professional insecurity"
due to the anomalies' stubborn refusal to be assimilated into the
existing paradigm (1, p. 83). This is only resolved when a choice is
made between the old and new paradigm. When this process of
"conversion" occurs it is then possible to recognize not only that
some fact has been discovered but also what the discovery of that fact
means in the context of the new paradigm world view. According to Kuhn
a decision like this is not ultimately made based on some objective
facts, but rather, "a decision of that kind can only be made on
faith" (1, p. 158).

http://www.thingsrevealed.net/structure.htm
http://tom.acrewoods.net/research/philosophy/science/kuhn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions
http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/Kuhn.html
http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/- Transcendence UKhttp://www.theconsensus.org/- A UK political partyhttp://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5- Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 7:53 am, zinnic <zeenr...@gate.net> wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:



A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.
Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Mystics again have to fold their tents and retreat furthur and furthur
into the boundless desert of their 'unpromising' land.

....the emergence of anomalies begin to challenge the reigning paradigm
view. In this case researchers uncover certain facts that can not be
fitted within the more precise paradigm in a straight forward manner.
Those anomalies which stubbornly remain irreconcilable have the
potential to become what are called "revolutionary anomalies."

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 3:59 pm, Strange Creature <strangecreatu...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Spaceman wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Oh crap,
The creation of the Dalak race has begun.


Yes. Get a vat that can grow rat neurons and
produce an insert that is 1m x 1m x 1m, and
it will probably take over the Earth by 2020, and
maybe even become the top world champion
at chess, either biological or non-biological.

Or maybe throw something in the vat one day and it comes out so
intelligent and powerful that it makes humans into something like pet
dogs.

artilects:

....I believe that 21st century technologies will allow the creation of
"artilects" (artificial intellects, artificial intelligences,
massively intelligent machines), with intellectual capacities many
times greater than those of human beings. Our computers will continue
to increase their intelligence levels at exponential rates, well into
the 21st century, thanks to 21st century technologies that researchers
like myself can already envisage. I will attempt to demonstrate what
these technologies will be, and explain why I think they will be
sufficiently powerful to enable the building of true artilects in the
21st century rather than later. It is these 21st century technologies
that I believe will force humanity to confront the "artilect
issue" (i.e. should we build them or not).

As computers keep getting smarter and smarter in the 21st century,
billions of human beings will be able to see for themselves the
exponential rise in artificial intelligence. For example, they will
notice that their household robots are smarter this year than the
models they had two years previously, that they have more behaviors,
that their verbal responses are more emotional and more human like.
Everyone in the rich political blocks (i.e. those who can first afford
such machines) will be asking themselves "Where is all this fabulous
technological progress headed?" Everyone will be wondering if there
should be a limit to such progress. "Should the development of such
smart robots be stopped after reaching a certain level of
performance?" A growing and collective anxiety will make itself felt.

I think it should be obvious to nearly everyone reading this essay
that it is only a question of time before millions of people start
debating the "artilect issue", e.g. "How far up the intelligence curve
should the artificial brain industry be allowed to progress in
producing artificially intelligent products? Should any constraints be
placed on them at all? If progress should be stopped after reaching a
certain intelligence level, can it be stopped?" In time, this debate
will heat up to such a point that I believe it will become the
dominant issue of our age. It will color and define the 21st century
and beyond.

At the present time, when I talk about the artilect issue (the issue
of species dominance), and the prospect of an artilect war, many
people find it too science-fiction like to take it seriously,
especially the more conservative of my scientific colleagues, whose
analytic abilities are often more developed than their sense of
vision.

....The question most thinking people will be asking themselves within
a few decades will be "Is humanity prepared to see its status as
dominant species on our planet be undermined by the artilects?" Can we
always be sure that the artilects, if we build them, will treat human
beings in a way that will make us feel secure, despite their enormous
intelligence levels, or, would we always harbor the suspicion that
they might one day decide that human beings are so inferior to them,
and such a pest on the surface of the planet that we should be
exterminated? With their gargantuan intellects, such an extermination
would not be difficult for them. I see the debate polarising into two
very opposite ideologies.

....In the 21st century, humanity will be called upon to make the
toughest decision in its history, namely whether it should take the
risk of building artilects or not. I feel ambivalent about the
artilect issue. With my left hand I am passionately involved with my
attempts to build artificial brains. With my right hand I am raising
the alarm. Surely these two attitudes are contradictory? Yes they are.
I feel I am sympathetic to the views of both Terrans and Cosmists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_de_Garis

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 4:20 pm, Strange Creature <strangecreatu...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Spaceman wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Oh crap,
The creation of the Dalak race has begun.


Yup. Although bigger versions of these little
guys could probably eventually drive an auto or
a semi more safely than a human, they still
have the same defects of biological neural
networks, basically, configurability and
reproducibility of the pattern of neural
connections after one has been trained,
along with long training times to get it
to work properly.

But then again maybe they will come to have experiences much beyond
human abilities. We should graft them into our nervous systems quickly
and become them, assimilate them like the Borg in Star Trek, before
they escape into space, evolve even further faster then come back like
the Borg in Star Trek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YytWxrGVKE

It's also interesting to ask how long the
little soup cans will last considering that
the the original rats might have lasted
only a few years, that is if they will be
preserved for that long. Nerve cells
don't reproduce that much so it might
be an interesting question on several
levels.

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 5:49 pm, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Aug 16, 3:36 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 4:53 am, Errol <vs.er...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_quantum%20mind.html-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dont you just love the language. Micro tubules "can" switch from
relaxation to contraction. Cells are metabolically active, and micro
tubules seem to be essential to metabolic activity.

This is really brilliant research, and I take my hat of to such
incredible intellects. They are the Olympians of their field. Higher,
stronger and swifter.

Keep dissecting. Like the swimmer, you will have a job for life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
INFORMATION AND LIFE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1)
A universal computer is indeed
universal and can emulate any process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(2)
The essence of life is a process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(3)
There exist criteria by which we
are able to distinguish living
from non-living things.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interlude A:
Accepting (1), (2), and (3) implies
the possibility of life in a computer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LIFE AND REALITY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4)
If somebody manages to develop life in
a computer environment, which satisfies (3),
it follows from (2) that these life-forms
are just as much alive as you and I.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(5)
Such an artificial organism must perceive a
reality (R2), which for itself is just as real
as our "real" reality (R1) is for us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(6)
From (5) we conclude that (R1) and (R2) has the
same ontological status. Although (R2) in a material
way is embedded in (R1), (R2) is independent of (R1).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REALITY AND PHYSICS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(7)
If (R1) and (R2) have the same ontological status
it might be possible to learn something about the
fundamental properties of realities in general, and
of (R1) in particular, by studying the details of
different (R2's). An example of such a property is
the physics of reality.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://tinyurl.com/2e4fg

Steven Levy
Pantheon Books New York
Copyright Š 1992 by Steven Levy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679743898/

> BOfL

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 16, 5:04 pm, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Aug 16, 3:26 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek

Yes, I knew all that, but sadly now humans have created the "proto-type".
Good thing there will be no "TARDIS" nor any "real" timewars.


But what about Agent Smith and the Matrix possibility? In the future
put humans in a dream state where they believe it is way back now;

If your attention is on some future outcome or past experience, you
are dreaming. Perfectly natural, but not real.

I think you really mean that if I think my mind is in the future when
imaging the future I am wrong since I can only do things in the
present moments whether I am remembering or predicting.

Were you thinking of this old idea or somethng?

The Twelve Pathways

To the Higher Consciousness Planes of Unconditional Love and Oneness

FREEING MYSELF

1. I am freeing myself from security, sensation, and power addictions
that make me try to forcefully control situations in my life, and thus
destroy my serenity and keep me from loving myself and others.

2. I am discovering how my consciousness-dominating addictions create
my illusory version of the changing world of people and situations
around me.

3. I welcome the opportunity (even if painful) that my minute-to-
minute experience offers me to become aware of the addictions I must
reprogram to be liberated from my robot-like emotional patterns.

BEING HERE NOW

4. I always remember that I have everything I need to enjoy my here
and now—unless I am letting my consciousness be dominated by demands
and expectations based on the dead past or the imagined future.

5. I take full responsibility here and now for everything I
experience, for it is my own programming that creates my actions and
also influences the reactions of people around me.

6. I accept myself completely here and now and consciously experience
everything I feel, think, say, and do (including my emotion-backed
addictions) as a necessary part of my growth into higher
consciousness.

INTERACTING WITH OTHERS

7. I open myself genuinely to all people by being willing to fully
communicate my deepest feelings, since hiding in any degree keeps me
stuck in my illusion of separateness from other people.

8. I feel with loving compassion the problems of others without
getting caught up emotionally in their predicaments that are offering
them messages they need for their growth.

9. I act freely when I am tuned in, centered, and loving, but if
possible I avoid acting when I am emotionally upset and depriving
myself of the wisdom that flows from love and expanded consciousness.

DISCOVERING MY CONSCIOUS-AWARENESS

10. I am continually calming the restless scanning of my rational mind
in order to perceive the finer energies that enable me to unitively
merge with everything around me.

11. I am constantly aware of which of the Seven Centers of
Consciousness I am using, and I feel my energy, perceptiveness, love
and inner peace growing as I open all of the Centers of Consciousness.

12. I am perceiving everyone, including myself, as an awakening being
who is here to claim his or her birthright to the higher consciousness
planes of unconditional love and oneness.

Handbook to Higher Consciousness
by Ken, Jr. Keyes
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0960068880/

> BOfL

 

[Immortalist]

On Aug 15, 3:28 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:23:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Edward
Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote in
fbbdd014-7b3b-4b56-bc01-c8dd13187...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:

On Aug 14, 1:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain
...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar..=
.

That's very creepy, if it's real

Have been thinking about this.
What if the experiment was repeated with politician's brain cells?
And brain cells from GW Bush (if he has enough)?
Would the outcome be different?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QucJvw4rbk8

 

[bigfletch8@gmail.com]

On Aug 17, 3:25 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 16, 5:49 pm, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com
wrote:





On Aug 16, 3:36 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 4:53 am, Errol <vs.er...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_quantum%20mind.html-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dont you just love the language. Micro tubules "can" switch from
relaxation to contraction. Cells are metabolically active, and micro
tubules seem to be essential to metabolic activity.

This is really brilliant research, and I take my hat of to such
incredible intellects. They are the Olympians of their field. Higher,
stronger and swifter.

Keep dissecting. Like the swimmer, you will have a job for life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
INFORMATION AND LIFE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1)
A universal computer is indeed
universal and can emulate any process.

Nothing more universal than the universe, so it must be also able to
emulate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(2)
The essence of life is a process.

Life creates the process of essence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(3)
There exist criteria by which we
are able to distinguish living
from non-living things.

Correct. We can, but our things cant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interlude A:
Accepting (1), (2), and (3) implies
the possibility of life in a computer.

Then "Things Aint What Thy Used To Be"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LIFE AND REALITY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4)
If somebody manages to develop life in
a computer environment, which satisfies (3),
it follows from (2) that these life-forms
are just as much alive as you and I.

If somebody managed to prove reincarnation, then where would such
logic be?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(5)
Such an artificial organism must perceive a
reality (R2), which for itself is just as real
as our "real" reality (R1) is for us.

Ill just ask my brain if it agrees with that statement.....

(2 hours later).....nope. Just sits ther flashing
synposastically .....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(6)
From (5) we conclude that (R1) and (R2) has the
same ontological status. Although (R2) in a material
way is embedded in (R1), (R2) is independent of (R1).

1+1=1+1.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REALITY AND PHYSICS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(7)
If (R1) and (R2) have the same ontological status
it might be possible to learn something about the
fundamental properties of realities in general, and
of (R1) in particular, by studying the details of
different (R2's). An example of such a property is
the physics of reality.

Thanks for confirming my actuality, with your possibility.
Thereby lies the difference.

Reality is where you are looking from, not what you are looking at, no
matter how sophisticated the ability to see becomes.

BOfL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://tinyurl.com/2e4fg

Steven Levy
Pantheon Books New  York
Copyright Š 1992 by Steven Levyhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679743898/



BOfL- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Jerry Kraus
<jkraus_1906@yahoo.com> wrote in
<853c1dfa-9601-410a-92ec-faecf7a98f9d@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:

Fair enough. But, getting back to the mechanical, and the main topic
of this particular thread -- rat neurons controlling electronics --
what concerns me is that the emphasis in the research is likely to be
much more on generating research grant proposals than on developing
any useful applications.

I dunno, sure there are cases, like for example ITER, building a large
fusion power plant in France, that actually does not produce any electricity,
and never will, and costs billions.

This rat thing however is a rather small scale research, and there are many
possible practical applications one can think of.
Just interfacing neurons with electrical signals can be of medical value.
Think making implants for the blind, like a camera or some sensor in the
eye, I have read about that.

Understanding the brain is ongoing research.

I fear this is the nature of the
professional research environment -- a self-sustaining bureaucracy.

That comes for free with it, sure, but OTOH we do have many examples where the system
did produce results.

If the car make a noise, no reason to dump the car and walk, better fix the problem.


In my previous reply I was sort of referring to 'the thing that keeps us alive'.
I have my own little theory, and I think this would make for an interesting experiment.

I will try to explain it here in a simple way:

You know, when they want to know if somebody is still alive, they look at brain activity.
If no more brain activity, then the person is considered dead.
Still organs can be used for transplants if done quick enough.

That brain activity is perhaps measured with electrodes (looking for electrical signals).
There are all sorts of wave patterns in our brain, different ones for waking, sleeping,
and deep sleep for example.

Some are periodic, like a sine wave from an oscillator.
Now here comes the interesting part, I asked myself: 'What can be so that it can stop all of the sudden,
can produce a continuous wave pattern, and have its pattern for example influenced by external events?'.

As this also goes to sci.electronics.basics, let me introduce the 'oscillator'.
An oscillator is made up of one or more stages of amplification (say gain), the output feeding
back to the input.

You all know oscillation (for the other newsgroups, bring a microphone close to a speaker,
and you get a howling noise (frequency), you have connected an input (mike) to an output (speaker) ).

Now to bring this back to that dish of rat neurons, WHAT IF you did not simply blob those together,
but made a so called 'ring oscillator' like this, first make a string of neurons connected like this:

A *************** B

Now if you stimulate A in some way, then a little later B will respond,
the 'message' is passed on from one neuron to the other.

Now the clue of what I am trying to say:
Fold the string, connect B to A.
With some luck (enough 'gain' the neurons will have to give a sufficient strong response to
an input, so they can trigger the next one), and the correct _phase_, it will become a ring oscillator.

Instead of some like dead laying about neurons, we now have a network that displays one of those
same mysterious 'brain waves' that we do.
It activates itself, so it does not wither-away in that sense because of lack of stimuli.

So now we have a figure 'O' neuron net, and touching (stimulating) any point on the O
will sooner or later be experienced by all participating neurons.
Communication in the network is happening at a fixed speed.

When we go a step further we can have a figure eight '8' and now there are 2 possible signal
flows.
One is to follow the '8' as you draw it, if we stimulate bottom left, that signal will travel to top right
first, then via top left to bottom right, while, the symmetry, consider the left side eyes, (light sensitive)
and the right actuators....
The other oscillating mode is 2 circles, the top and bottom of the eight operating as 2 independent circuits.
In this second case, there will be a continuous conflict in the crossing point of the eighth....
In the first case there will be harmony.
Our network will have two states it can be in....

This is not a bad thing, it is actually a requirement, as we also have 2 states of perception, but
that is for a different posting altogether.

So, life as we know it could be just an oscillator (and radiate EM waves too).
Killing any neuron in the chain will stop the oscillation,
a defective or under performing neuron would too.
Do we have, in the depth of our brain, this essential little oscillator?

For the electronic minded here, here is an example of a simple ring oscillator, running
in spice simulator:
ftp://panteltje.com/pub/rgb.jpg

 

On Aug 17, 7:20 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Jerry Kraus
jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in
853c1dfa-9601-410a-92ec-faecf7a98...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:

Fair enough.  But, getting back to the mechanical, and the main topic
of this particular thread -- rat neurons controlling electronics --
what concerns me is that the emphasis in the research is likely to be
much more on generating research grant proposals than on developing
any useful applications.

I dunno, sure there are cases, like for example ITER, building a large
fusion power plant in France, that actually does not produce any electricity,
and never will, and costs billions.

This rat thing however is a rather small scale research, and there are many
possible practical applications one can think of.
Just interfacing neurons with electrical signals can be of medical value.
Think making implants for the blind, like a camera or some sensor in the
eye, I have read about that.

Understanding the brain is ongoing research.

I fear this is the nature of the
professional research environment -- a self-sustaining bureaucracy.

That comes for free with it, sure, but OTOH we do have many examples where the system
did produce results.

If the car make a noise, no reason to dump the car and walk, better fix the problem.

In my previous reply I was sort of referring to 'the thing that keeps us alive'.
I have my own little theory, and I think this would make for an interesting experiment.

I will try to explain it here in a simple way:

You know, when they want to know if somebody is still alive, they look at brain activity.
If no more brain activity, then the person is considered dead.
Still organs can be used for transplants if done quick enough.

That brain activity is perhaps measured with electrodes (looking for electrical signals).
There are all sorts of wave patterns in our brain, different ones for waking, sleeping,
and deep sleep for example.

Some are periodic, like a sine wave from an oscillator.
Now here comes the interesting part, I asked myself: 'What can be so that it can stop all of the sudden,
can produce a continuous wave pattern, and have its pattern for example influenced by external events?'.

As this also goes to sci.electronics.basics, let me introduce the 'oscillator'.
An oscillator is made up of one or more stages of amplification (say gain), the output feeding
back to the input.

You all know oscillation (for the other newsgroups, bring a microphone close to a speaker,
and you get a howling noise (frequency), you have connected an input (mike) to an output (speaker) ).

Now to bring this back to that dish of rat neurons, WHAT IF you did not simply blob those together,
but made a so called 'ring oscillator' like this, first make a string of neurons connected like this:

A *************** B

Now if you stimulate A in some way, then a little later B will respond,
the 'message' is passed on from one neuron to the other.

Now the clue of what I am trying to say:
Fold the string, connect B to A.
With some luck (enough 'gain' the neurons will have to give a sufficient strong response to
an input, so they can trigger the next one), and the correct _phase_, it will become a ring oscillator.

Instead of some like dead laying about neurons, we now have a network that displays one of those
same mysterious 'brain waves' that we do.
It activates itself, so it does not wither-away in that sense because of lack of stimuli.

So now we have a figure 'O' neuron net, and touching (stimulating) any point on the O
will sooner or later be experienced by all participating neurons.
Communication in the network is happening at a fixed speed.

When we go a step further we can have a figure eight '8' and now there are 2 possible signal
flows.
One is to follow the '8' as you draw it, if we stimulate bottom left, that signal will travel to top right
first, then via top left to bottom right, while, the symmetry, consider the left side eyes, (light sensitive)
and the right actuators....
The other oscillating mode is 2 circles, the top and bottom of the eight operating as 2 independent circuits.
In this second case, there will be a continuous conflict in the crossing point of the eighth....
In the first case there will be harmony.
Our network will have two states it can be in....

This is not a bad thing, it is actually a requirement, as we also have 2 states of perception, but
that is for a different posting altogether.

So, life as we know it could be just an oscillator (and radiate EM waves too).
Killing any neuron in the chain will stop the oscillation,
a defective or under performing neuron would too.
Do we have, in the depth of our brain, this essential little oscillator?

For the electronic minded here, here is an example of a simple ring oscillator, running
in spice simulator:
 ftp://panteltje.com/pub/rgb.jpg

The neuronal circuits and enzymic cycles are replete with hugely
complex "oscillators". It took millions of years for them to develop
and be selected to allow survival.in a changing environment. The nerve
cell experiments represent the first tiny baby steps. that IMO will
lead to runaway progress in neuroscience. Just a question of time.

 

On Aug 16, 7:44 pm, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Aug 17, 12:53 am, zinnic <zeenr...@gate.net> wrote:





On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.
Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Mystics again have to fold their tents and retreat furthur and furthur
into the  boundless desert of their 'unpromising' land.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No need for promise in the world of knowing. Everything I have read
here confirms what I have already grasped (as an apprentice mystic).

The speculation is that the metabolic stimulus of the tubles comes
from quantum theory.

The intellectuals progress further into the world of theory. Always
filling in the gaps between the dissection process with conjecture.

I admire them in the same way as I admire the likes of Phelps.
Fantastic effort, remarkable dedication, and wonderful entertainment.

In the same way, I question if I would be willing to swim up and down
a  lane for many hours a day for many years, imposing incredible pain
to my organism.
I wonder if this activity would be persued if done in isolation, with
no recognition or acknowledgment from your fellows?

I cannot begin to imagine that scenario. Ironic, when one starts to
realize that the "real"  journey is precisely that, without the pain
and boring repetative nature of the 'relative search'.

Are you claiming that the "real" journey is "done in isolation, with
no recognition or acknowledgment from your fellows?" Your many posts
to this NG indicate that you have not yet embarked on your own "real"
journey.
I do not blame you. Seems so impotent to be entirely obsessed with
one's self. Look where it got Narcissis!
I would not wish it on anyone.

 

[Jerry Kraus]

On Aug 16, 5:32 pm, zinnic <zeenr...@gate.net> wrote:

On Aug 16, 9:40 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Despite the braying of naysayers scientists continually prove them
wrong! Example- DNA research will have no utility, Crude flying
machines will never be useful for transport. The list goes on and on.-

Ummm....The science of Genetics, the basis for DNA research, was
developed by Gregor Mendel, a Monk and Abbott, not a professional
scientist. The airplane was invented by the Wright brothers, bicycle
mechanics, not professional scientists. My criticisms are not of the
process of science, or the concept of science, but of the professional
scientific bureaucracy, specifically. Which I consider to be
exceedingly self-serving, inefficient, and corrupt.

 

[Jerry Kraus]

On Aug 17, 12:10 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 16, 7:40 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Aug 16, 12:39 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 7:16 am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 15, 1:02 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 4:43 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 12:59 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

A 'Frankenrobot' with a biological brain

Meet Gordon, probably the world's first robot controlled exclusively
by living brain tissue.

Stitched together from cultured rat neurons, Gordon's primitive grey
matter was designed at the University of Reading by scientists who
unveiled the neuron-powered machine on Wednesday.

Their groundbreaking experiments explore the vanishing boundary
between natural and artificial intelligence, and could shed light on
the fundamental building blocks of memory and learning, one of the
lead researchers told AFP.

"The purpose is to figure out how memories are actually stored in a
biological brain," said Kevin Warwick, a professor at the University
of Reading and one of the robot's principle architects.

Observing how the nerve cells cohere into a network as they fire off
electrical impulses, he said, may also help scientists combat
neurodegenerative diseases that attack the brain such as Alzheimer's
and Parkinson's.

"If we can understand some of the basics of what is going on in our
little model brain, it could have enormous medical spinoffs," he said.

Looking a bit like the garbage-compacting hero of the blockbuster
animation "Wall-E", Gordon has a brain composed of 50,000 to 100,000
active neurons.

Once removed from rat foetuses and disentangled from each other with
an enzyme bath, the specialised nerve cells are laid out in a nutrient-
rich medium across an eight-by-eight centimetre (five-by-five inch)
array of 60 electrodes.

This "multi-electrode array" (MEA) serves as the interface between
living tissue and machine, with the brain sending electrical impulses
to drive the wheels of the robots, and receiving impulses delivered by
sensors reacting to the environment.

Because the brain is living tissue, it must be housed in a special
temperature-controlled unit -- it communicates with its "body" via a
Bluetooth radio link.

The robot has no additional control from a human or computer.

From the very start, the neurons get busy. "Within about 24 hours,
they start sending out feelers to each other and making connections,"
said Warwick.

"Within a week we get some spontaneous firings and brain-like
activity" similar to what happens in a normal rat -- or human --
brain, he added.

But without external stimulation, the brain will wither and die within
a couple of months.

"Now we are looking at how best to teach it to behave in certain
ways," explained Warwick.

To some extent, Gordon learns by itself. When it hits a wall, for
example, it gets an electrical stimulation from the robot's sensors.
As it confronts similar situations, it learns by habit.

To help this process along, the researchers also use different
chemicals to reinforce or inhibit the neural pathways that light up
during particular actions.

Gordon, in fact, has multiple personalities -- several MEA "brains"
that the scientists can dock into the robot.

"It's quite funny -- you get differences between the brains," said
Warwick. "This one is a bit boisterous and active, while we know
another is not going to do what we want it to."

Mainly for ethical reasons, it is unlikely that researchers at Reading
or the handful of laboratories around the world exploring the same
terrain will be using human neurons any time soon in the same kind of
experiments.

But rats brain cells are not a bad stand-in: much of the difference
between rodent and human intelligence, speculates Warwick, could be
attributed to quantity not quality.

Rats brains are composed of about one million neurons, the specialised
cells that relay information across the brain via chemicals called
neurotransmitters.

Humans have 100 billion.

"This is a simplified version of what goes on in the human brain where
we can look -- and control -- the basic features in the way that we
want. In a human brain, you can't really do that," he said.

For colleague Ben Whalley, one of the fundamental questions facing
scientists today is how to link the activity of individual neurons
with the overwhelmingly complex behaviour of whole organisms.

"The project gives us a unique opportunity to look at something which
may exhibit complex behaviours, but still remain closely tied to the
activity of individual neurons," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080813192458.ud84hj9h&show_ar...

Interesting game.  But, is it really anything more than that?  I often
have the feeling, these days, that scientific experiments aren't
really intended to accomplish anything at all, other than attract
attention.  What really are they trying to design with this particular
monstrosity, other than the outline for a research grant?

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Should they throw it away then because it will be abused but possibly
developed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTImvP8M-Q&feature=related-Hidequoted...-

- Show quoted text -

Somehow, I'm not too worried about that possibility.  What worries me
isn't that this is going to lead to the "Terminator".  What worries me
is that it is extremely unlikely to lead to anything, and was only
proposed because it sounds a bit like the "Terminator".

Can explain why you believe it will ever, in the near or even far
future lead to anything? Using only nerve cells seems like a major
step, like inventing the transistor or something. This could be so
revolutionary that it changes everything in the information world.

Not really.  We've hooked up electrodes to the human brain that
allowed people to crudely manipulate devices.  But, we haven't
proceeded to be able to manipulate much of anything psychokinetically,
for practical purposes.  Now we have a few neurons that can be used to
very crudely manipulate something.  The problem isn't the general
concept.  It's the crudeness of the technique.  And the total abscence
of any general approach to structure the research process so as to
refine the technology.  Scientists are good speculators.  But,
frequently, they are very bad at moving from theory to practice.
Perhaps because the system doesn't really reward results.  Neurons
produce electrochemical discharges, obviously these discharges can be
used to crudely influence an electronic system.  But, to produce
something of real practical value, that may be a qualitatively
different step.  Which the scientists have no way of knowing how to
proceed to.  And may not which to proceed to, if they have no
incentive to do so.

The neat thing about this is that there is already an exposed plan for
developing bio-computers like mammal brains. The genes direct the
assembly of multiple cells and steer them here and there with chemical
gradients until a full brain sort of happens. All these researchers
need to do is learn to "steer" or "herd" these downhill processes and
find structures events in nature would not allow because of survival.

Embryogenesis is the process by which the embryo is formed and
develops. It starts with the fertilization of the ovum, egg, which,
after fertilization, is then called a zygote. The zygote undergoes
rapid mitotic divisions, the formation of two exact genetic replicates
of the original cell, with no significant growth (a process known as
cleavage) and cellular differentiation, leading to development of an
embryo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryogenesis- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What you are proposing would gaurantee human immortality. We could
regenerate the human brain. I don't think it's quite as simple as you
think it is. But, best of luck to them.