the well-dressed engineer...

[Don Y]

On 9/15/2023 2:32 PM, ehsjr wrote:

Gotta have tees with pocket for the gym to hold the
mp3 player.

I used to wear an iPod Shuffle clipped to my neckline while
walking:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Shuffle#/media/File:IPod_Shuffle_4G.svg>

No display -- no need! Load with appropriate content and just
hit PLAY/PAUSE, as appropriate.

When the battery died, I switched to a Network Walkman -- but it
was a bit too bulky to hang off neckline. But, it fit
comfortably in a closed fist:

<https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/msnbc/Components/Photos/050308/050308_sonymusic_hmed_6a.jpg>

Now, I put an old cell phone in a back pocket (has a display but no
need to SEE it!) and use earbuds as wired would be too long for
that stretch.

(Unfortunately, my earbuds aren\'t noticeable so folks often try
to chat with me as I pass)

 

[John Smiht]

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:43:47 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:20:24 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

I\'m self-employed, so I can wear whatever I like - but occasionally I
have to give a formal talk, so I keep a few smart skirts and tops for
those occasions.

About a year ago I had to give a talk on a technical topic to a more
general audience. I had just bought a black and red layered \'gipsy\'
skirt at a car boot sale but the waistband had begun to disintegrate, so
I took it all to pieces, cut off the frayed material and reconstructed a
skirt which looked absolutely stunning but formal when coupled with a
black silky top. I just got it finished the day before the talk.

Afterwards a lady came up to me and said how much she had enjoyed the
talk, even though she didn\'t understand a lot of it ...but she had spent
most of the time admiring my skirt!
My preferred look is \"invisible.\"

My preferred appearance is whatever it happens to be. I dress for my own comfort... I don\'t have to look at me and I don\'t care what you think.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2023/09/15 8:55 a.m., legg wrote:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 16:30:51 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

Hell, I miss shirt pockets.

Why am I the only one in my neighborhood with his shirt
tucked in ?

RL

My wife only buys shirts that have a pocket for me - so they do exist
(at least here in Canada) - I have a closet with twenty or so that get
updated from time to time. I always have a pen and sharpie in the
pocket, glasses sometimes, phone sometimes...

My wife likes shopping for clothes and I loath it, and I like fixing
stuff around the house and she doesn\'t - it works for us.

John :-#)#

 

[Liz Tuddenham]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:20:24 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

I\'m self-employed, so I can wear whatever I like - but occasionally I
have to give a formal talk, so I keep a few smart skirts and tops for
those occasions.

About a year ago I had to give a talk on a technical topic to a more
general audience. I had just bought a black and red layered \'gipsy\'
skirt at a car boot sale but the waistband had begun to disintegrate, so
I took it all to pieces, cut off the frayed material and reconstructed a
skirt which looked absolutely stunning but formal when coupled with a
black silky top. I just got it finished the day before the talk.

Afterwards a lady came up to me and said how much she had enjoyed the
talk, even though she didn\'t understand a lot of it ...but she had spent
most of the time admiring my skirt!

My preferred look is \"invisible.\"

Is this from choice or because it is expected of you?


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[Liz Tuddenham]

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

[...]
> Hell, I miss shirt pockets.

I can\'t do without pockets somewhere in my clothes but you should try
finding skirts with decent sized pockets. Lack of pockets is the one
big grumble women have about \'womens\' clothes. I have become adept at
opening a side seam and inserting a pocket or sewing one on the inside
of an elasticated waistband. (You have to be careful where you put it
or it could look like a hidden colostomy bag or worse).

When friends borrow any of my skirts, their first comment is usually
\"Oh! It\'s got lovely big pockets!\".


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 15. september 2023 kl. 22.43.47 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:20:24 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

I\'m self-employed, so I can wear whatever I like - but occasionally I
have to give a formal talk, so I keep a few smart skirts and tops for
those occasions.

About a year ago I had to give a talk on a technical topic to a more
general audience. I had just bought a black and red layered \'gipsy\'
skirt at a car boot sale but the waistband had begun to disintegrate, so
I took it all to pieces, cut off the frayed material and reconstructed a
skirt which looked absolutely stunning but formal when coupled with a
black silky top. I just got it finished the day before the talk.

Afterwards a lady came up to me and said how much she had enjoyed the
talk, even though she didn\'t understand a lot of it ...but she had spent
most of the time admiring my skirt!
My preferred look is \"invisible.\"

that\'s the whole point of dress codes

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 10:54:55 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:20:24 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

I\'m self-employed, so I can wear whatever I like - but occasionally I
have to give a formal talk, so I keep a few smart skirts and tops for
those occasions.

About a year ago I had to give a talk on a technical topic to a more
general audience. I had just bought a black and red layered \'gipsy\'
skirt at a car boot sale but the waistband had begun to disintegrate, so
I took it all to pieces, cut off the frayed material and reconstructed a
skirt which looked absolutely stunning but formal when coupled with a
black silky top. I just got it finished the day before the talk.

Afterwards a lady came up to me and said how much she had enjoyed the
talk, even though she didn\'t understand a lot of it ...but she had spent
most of the time admiring my skirt!

My preferred look is \"invisible.\"

Is this from choice or because it is expected of you?

Choice. I\'m mildly autistic and not very social - as many engineers
are - so don\'t seek or want any sort of approval or even notice from
the public. I don\'t want to sing, dance, act, or strut my stuff. The
New York Times Style Magazine astounds me: why would anyone want to
look like that, much less pay $12,000 to look like that?

Clothes have historically been very important. \"Clothes make the man.\"
I don\'t get that at all.

I have been \"performing\" before potential customers and at design
reviews and such since I was a kid. My strategy is to keep low
profile, quiet and nearly invisible until I figure out the situation,
and then whack them all at once. That\'s fun and seems to work.

I like women to look like workers or gardeners or hikers. Tee shirt,
or better undershirt, no makeup, real looking. In a fashion magazine
with \"before\" and \"after\" makeovers, I always prefer before.

People are different. Engineering is not a social activity, because
social interaction creates consensus and suppresses dissent; original
design is fundamentally dissent. Brainstorming is great if several
social pathologies can be avoided.

Slack sucks.

 

[Liz Tuddenham]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

[...]

I like women to look like workers or gardeners or hikers. Tee shirt,
or better undershirt, no makeup, real looking. In a fashion magazine
with \"before\" and \"after\" makeovers, I always prefer before.

I\'m definitely not a \'heels and lipstick\' person, but I much prefer
skirts to trousers, they are so comfortable. I have an assortment of
old denim ones with oil splodges, which I wear when I\'m working on
machinery.

For safety, I have to wear trousers when I am doing canal restoration
involving bonfires, but if I have to work in the wet, I wear a skirt. A
wet skirt doesn\'t cling and wick water into your socks and boots like
trouser legs do - and it dries out twice as quickly because air
circulates on both sides of the material.

If I am giving a presentation, then I feel I need to stand out a bit and
wear something formal but attractive - but still no heels or makeup.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:13:45 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

[...]

I like women to look like workers or gardeners or hikers. Tee shirt,
or better undershirt, no makeup, real looking. In a fashion magazine
with \"before\" and \"after\" makeovers, I always prefer before.

I\'m definitely not a \'heels and lipstick\' person, but I much prefer
skirts to trousers, they are so comfortable. I have an assortment of
old denim ones with oil splodges, which I wear when I\'m working on
machinery.

Don\'t your legs get cold? That looks uncomfortable, at least in our
climate. Around here, we say \"Wow, she looks great in a parka.\"

For safety, I have to wear trousers when I am doing canal restoration
involving bonfires, but if I have to work in the wet, I wear a skirt. A
wet skirt doesn\'t cling and wick water into your socks and boots like
trouser legs do - and it dries out twice as quickly because air
circulates on both sides of the material.

If I am giving a presentation, then I feel I need to stand out a bit and
wear something formal but attractive - but still no heels or makeup.

Mo calls heels \"catchme****me\" shoes.

The Hollywood/beauty queen/cheerleader look is weird. They all look
alike. Big heads, big breasts, big butts, globbed-on makeup, lipstick,
not a hint of personality. I guess some people like that look, or
people wouldn\'t bother to do it.

Trans females (biological men) do those things to extremes.

Bebe, our hair-stylist lady, only has glamour-type mags, so I skim
them if I forget to bring a book. I donated a bunch of car mags and
some Aviation Week mags, but they disappered rapidly.

 

[Liz Tuddenham]

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:13:45 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

[...]

I like women to look like workers or gardeners or hikers. Tee shirt,
or better undershirt, no makeup, real looking. In a fashion magazine
with \"before\" and \"after\" makeovers, I always prefer before.

I\'m definitely not a \'heels and lipstick\' person, but I much prefer
skirts to trousers, they are so comfortable. I have an assortment of
old denim ones with oil splodges, which I wear when I\'m working on
machinery.


Don\'t your legs get cold? That looks uncomfortable, at least in our
climate. Around here, we say \"Wow, she looks great in a parka.\"

There are skirts and skirts. In cold weather there is nothing nicer
than a great long floor-sweeper with a couple of warm underskirts. You
walk around in your own bubble of warm air. Feet and ankles may get a
little colder than in trousers, but the mid and upper legs are a lot
warmer. Curl up on a sofa and your feet get warm too.

When working on a lathe, there are no exposed moving parts below waist
level so it is safe to wear a long skirt - which keeps the swarf out of
your socks and shoes.


[...]
> Trans females (biological men) do those things to extremes.

Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
sensibly don\'t get noticed. There is a comparison here with teenage
girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
their lives, so they go a bit too far. Then they find out what suits
them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

Some men have strange ideas about what it means to be a woman and think
feminity is all about glamour, sexiness or extreme effeminate behaviour.
They get mixed up with transwomen (in their own minds too) but usually
don\'t ever transition.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[Don Y]

On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
sensibly don\'t get noticed. There is a comparison here with teenage
girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
their lives, so they go a bit too far. Then they find out what suits
them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
E.g., latinas tend to \"let it all hang out\" because their
culture allows that. They also \"feel safe\" (WITHIN that
culture) to do so. They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
actions.

Some men have strange ideas about what it means to be a woman and think
feminity is all about glamour, sexiness or extreme effeminate behaviour.
They get mixed up with transwomen (in their own minds too) but usually
don\'t ever transition.

Such generalizations can apply to any two \"groups\". I realize that my
understanding of others is an intellectual exercise; I *can\'t* know
what it is (truly) like to be a female. Or, gay. Or, black. Or,
physically handicapped. Or, ...

I can EDUCATE myself as to the issues that those people likely face
but can\'t really \"grok\" their condition.

What\'s it like to give birth (physically, emotionally, etc.)?
What\'s it like to have men staring at your chest while talking?
What\'s it like to be denied a rent because you were \"too dark\"?
Or, perceived as a criminal for the same reason? Or, considered
less intelligent because of an accent?

We can hear comedians (and comediennes) joke about these
\"conditions\" but can\'t truly relate to them.

The comedian, Gallagher, (bald with shoulder-length hair)
once removed his ever-present hat to get a laugh at
his appearance. He then commented, \"You women don\'t know
what it\'s like to lose your hair (actually, a misstatement);
imagine if your TITS fell off!\"

(How many men can understand what it must feel like to feel a
lump in YOUR breast?)

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:02:37 AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

<snip>

> (How many men can understand what it must feel like to feel a lump in YOUR breast?)

Perhaps more than Don Y thinks. Men can get breast cancer.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/male-breast-cancer/symptoms-causes/syc-20374740

It\'s rare, but it does happen.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 7:31:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

I haven\'t worn a suit or tie in 20 years, and that was for a funeral. Due to the damage to my legs, I haven\' worn pants in over 15 years, so it is a pair of shorts, and a tee shirt. I got into yhe habit of wearing bright colored tee shirts when I worked at Microdyne, because my supervisor would complain that he couldn\'t find me. Then everyone would tell him, \"He\'s been at his bench for hours.\" If I was going to the stock room for parts, or to the restroom, I was also noticed. (I was an undiagnosed Diabetic, and had to pee quite often during my last year there.)

 

[Liz Tuddenham]

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
sensibly don\'t get noticed. There is a comparison here with teenage
girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
their lives, so they go a bit too far. Then they find out what suits
them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
E.g., latinas tend to \"let it all hang out\" because their
culture allows that. They also \"feel safe\" (WITHIN that
culture) to do so. They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
actions.

I\'m not sure what you are getting at here; I\'ve never seen the behaviour
you describe but it doesn\'t seem to be anything to do with transgender -
more like exhibitionism.

I know many transwomen: they are bus drivers, photographers, biologists,
programmers, medical professionals, journalists, lawyers, engineers,
etc. They get on with their lives in exactly the same way other women
do in the same jobs. In their leisure time they go shopping, join
Bridge clubs, play in jazz bands, help at the Women\'s Institute,
restore canals etc. They just want to be left to get on with their
lives in peace.

I can only think of two who have ever attended a Pride event and one of
those was the official photographer. Most of them would never want to
flaunt themselves in public; several of them transitioned many years ago
and their friends and colleagues never think of them as anything other
than women.

As I mentioned before, it\'s the noisy or inappropriate exhibitionists,
who may not even be trans, who get themselves noticed.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 16:05:13 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
sensibly don\'t get noticed. There is a comparison here with teenage
girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
their lives, so they go a bit too far. Then they find out what suits
them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
E.g., latinas tend to \"let it all hang out\" because their
culture allows that. They also \"feel safe\" (WITHIN that
culture) to do so. They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
actions.

I\'m not sure what you are getting at here; I\'ve never seen the behaviour
you describe but it doesn\'t seem to be anything to do with transgender -
more like exhibitionism.

Physical/visual attractiverness is wired into our biology. We can
handle it politely. Schools should teach kids how to behave in that
respect.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/17/2023 8:05 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
sensibly don\'t get noticed. There is a comparison here with teenage
girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
their lives, so they go a bit too far. Then they find out what suits
them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
E.g., latinas tend to \"let it all hang out\" because their
culture allows that. They also \"feel safe\" (WITHIN that
culture) to do so. They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
actions.

I\'m not sure what you are getting at here; I\'ve never seen the behaviour
you describe but it doesn\'t seem to be anything to do with transgender -
more like exhibitionism.

Sorry, I didn\'t mean to imply that it was (directly) related to LGBTQ+
issues in any way.

Latina cis-girls (i.e., the trend starts before what you would call
\"womanhood\") are comfortable \"flaunting it\"... even before there\'s
an \"it\" to flaunt.

And, \"flaunt\" is just my term for trying to explain how \"exposed\"
they are; it\'s not uncommon for them to wear skin tight garments
that leave very little to the imagination.

Where \"flaunt\" is a misstatement is that they aren\'t always
intentionally \"trying to tempt\"; it\'s just a cultural behavior
that is common for them. It\'s not intended to be slutty,
provocative, etc.

An anglo cis-girl would be far less likely to dress in that
way: \"good girls don\'t dress like that\" (as mom/pop decided
what \'good\' means)

This continues through later life. Even in \"professional\"
settings where anglo women would \"dress respectfully\"
(again, these are terms we\'ve adopted as a white society);
a latina receptionist would think nothing of having her rack
on public display as she greets customers ENTERING THE BANK!

I know many transwomen: they are bus drivers, photographers, biologists,
programmers, medical professionals, journalists, lawyers, engineers,
etc. They get on with their lives in exactly the same way other women
do in the same jobs. In their leisure time they go shopping, join
Bridge clubs, play in jazz bands, help at the Women\'s Institute,
restore canals etc. They just want to be left to get on with their
lives in peace.

That;s a different issue. I\'m sure the receptionist, above, also
wants to go on with her own business. But, to her (culture),
her style of dress would be \"appropriate\". Even if \"unflattering\"
(to anglo eyes)

I can only think of two who have ever attended a Pride event and one of
those was the official photographer. Most of them would never want to
flaunt themselves in public; several of them transitioned many years ago
and their friends and colleagues never think of them as anything other
than women.

As I mentioned before, it\'s the noisy or inappropriate exhibitionists,
who may not even be trans, who get themselves noticed.

The point that I am making is that exhibitionism implies intent.
Cultural issues may override that intent. I\'m sure the receptionist
isn\'t trying to \"get noticed\" in a \"bad\" way; SHE thinks she has
dressed appropriately -- hair coifed, suitable amount of jewelry,
scented, etc. *Here*, the style of dress is acceptable because
of the large latinX population. Same bank in Kansas City? No.

 

[Flyguy]

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

Now, with Zoom and working from home, the question is are they even wearing PANTS?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:35:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends

I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors.

(I\'m wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

Now, with Zoom and working from home, the question is are they even wearing PANTS?

But is it a question worth asking? The fact that it is Sewage Sweeper who is bothering to ask it is something of a clue.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney