The Tesla Diesel Is Announced...

[Liz Tuddenham]

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.

The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the \"bottom end\" of the (USED)
market isn\'t low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.

I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a \"heavily used\"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what\'s a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)

In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced \"Clean Air Zones\" in several cities, which impose
swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
\'Protecting the Environment\'.

The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions
standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual
\"registration\" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
(\"I want to own pretty things!\") has an associated cost.

Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!

When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the \".invalid\"s and add \".co.uk\" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 6:06:11 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the \"bottom end\" of the (USED)
market isn\'t low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle..

I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a \"heavily used\"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what\'s a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)

There are still plenty of Leaves for $3k to $5k around, if you can live with 30 to 50 miles.

The advantage ICEs provide is that almost anyone can keep an
older ICE running. How many EE\'s can keep their EV running
on a shoestring budget (so, how many NON-EEs would be capable?).

You don\'t need to be EE to wire expansion batteries together, just some HV precautions. Fear is the biggest barrier of entry.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 10:25:16 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.

The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the \"bottom end\" of the (USED)
market isn\'t low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.

I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a \"heavily used\"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what\'s a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)

In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced \"Clean Air Zones\" in several cities, which impose
swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
\'Protecting the Environment\'.

California is planning to require all trucks to be electric. That will
get interesting. A big loaded diesel truck can barely make it up the
grade to the Sierra crest. An electric, carrying tons of batteries, in
a snowstorm...

 

[a a]

The idiot John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
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From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 07:57:22 -0700
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[a a]

The arsehole liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

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Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
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liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

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Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 10:25:16 +0100
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[a a]

The idiot Eddy Lee <eddy711lee@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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Eddy Lee <eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Don Y]

On 10/6/2023 7:12 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 6:06:11 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the \"bottom end\" of the (USED)
market isn\'t low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.

I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a \"heavily used\"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what\'s a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)

There are still plenty of Leaves for $3k to $5k around, if you can live with 30 to 50 miles.

So, the ~200 miles that he can get from an old ICE getting 15MPG
for $500 is now 30-50 miles for $3-5K? Do you really think he\'s going
to think of this as an IMPROVEMENT in his quality of life?

Ah! We\'ll just create a gummit program -- Autocaid -- that provides
subsidized/free automobiles to underprivileged folks! And, pay
for it with a tax on all automobile sales?

The advantage ICEs provide is that almost anyone can keep an
older ICE running. How many EE\'s can keep their EV running
on a shoestring budget (so, how many NON-EEs would be capable?).

You don\'t need to be EE to wire expansion batteries together, just some HV precautions. Fear is the biggest barrier of entry.

An ICE can usually be repaired by SOMEONE in your neighborhood -- for
a similar \"favor\". What do you do when some part of the electronics
on your EV shits the bed? Is there a guy down the street who has
the skillset to make the repair for you? In exchange for a meal,
bottle, etc.?

 

[Don Y]

On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.

The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the \"bottom end\" of the (USED)
market isn\'t low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.

I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a \"heavily used\"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what\'s a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)

In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced \"Clean Air Zones\" in several cities, which impose
swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
\'Protecting the Environment\'.

The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions
standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual
\"registration\" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
(\"I want to own pretty things!\") has an associated cost.

Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!

When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.

The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are \"permitted vehicles\"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the
vehicle that is the indicator?

 

[a a]

The idiot Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Path: not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 13:26:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
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