the Institution of Engineers?

[pushpas]

I have been a Associate Fellow member withIE..it's hope less...they want the
membership funds every year for doing nothing for members???I have given up
paying the membership now. I am a network enginner with Optus for the past 7
years and they do not want to give me the full membership...
pushpa
"Jeff" <noflames@flame.org> wrote in message
news:3f73e212_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

Hi,

Im just posting this to see what experiences people have had with the
institution of engineers. Im an aussie with a master/honours/bachelors in
applied science in electronics from uni in sydney. I've always been
interested/worked in electronics in a design capacity.

A few years back I was knocked back for a position in the public service
with the reason being given that I didnt have IEAust membership. Recently
I
decided to look at membership and made some enquiries.

As the degrees I've done don't appear on their list of accredited degrees,
they have offered me technologist membership, something I am not
interested.
I consider myself a professional engineer in every sense of the word. As a
sidenote, with my enquiries and talks to others I strongly disagree with
some of the nonsense IEAust seems to require as part of their
accreditation
process. In my experience many of the degrees they seem to be accrediting
have very poor technical levels associated with them. Some of their
graduates have almost no design skills.

Getting back on track I wonder what are peoples experiences with IEAust
accreditation of non-IEAust science and technology degrees majoring in
electronics? Is/would anyone be interested in joining some sort of
class-action with a view to changing their policy on only accrediting on
the
basis of undergraduate degrees only?

Jim

PS: With 6 years of classroom university electronics am I asking for too
much to be considered a graduate member?

 

[Nemo]

Hmmm, you may miss out on their professional skill of bullsh**ing,
politicking and living from somebody else's pocket.


"pushpas" <pushpas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f783fa6$0$26924$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I have been a Associate Fellow member withIE..it's hope less...they want
the
membership funds every year for doing nothing for members???I have given
up
paying the membership now. I am a network enginner with Optus for the past
7
years and they do not want to give me the full membership...
pushpa
"Jeff" <noflames@flame.org> wrote in message
news:3f73e212_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
Hi,

Im just posting this to see what experiences people have had with the
institution of engineers. Im an aussie with a master/honours/bachelors
in
applied science in electronics from uni in sydney. I've always been
interested/worked in electronics in a design capacity.

A few years back I was knocked back for a position in the public service
with the reason being given that I didnt have IEAust membership.
Recently
I
decided to look at membership and made some enquiries.

As the degrees I've done don't appear on their list of accredited
degrees,
they have offered me technologist membership, something I am not
interested.
I consider myself a professional engineer in every sense of the word. As
a
sidenote, with my enquiries and talks to others I strongly disagree with
some of the nonsense IEAust seems to require as part of their
accreditation
process. In my experience many of the degrees they seem to be
accrediting
have very poor technical levels associated with them. Some of their
graduates have almost no design skills.

Getting back on track I wonder what are peoples experiences with IEAust
accreditation of non-IEAust science and technology degrees majoring in
electronics? Is/would anyone be interested in joining some sort of
class-action with a view to changing their policy on only accrediting on
the
basis of undergraduate degrees only?

Jim

PS: With 6 years of classroom university electronics am I asking for too
much to be considered a graduate member?

 

[Nemo]

Professional ethics is a far fetched concept in this country irrespective of
profession. If you have good experience it is just that the person you are
dealing with is nice.

My objection earlier is in relation to unqualified challenges by people not
understanding complementary (not contradictory) nature of various roles
within a professional group. My concern is about people assuming roles for
which they are not formally trained. Issues of quality of training systems
is a different matter. The self assumed role of IEAust as a quality
controller of engineering profession is a just big joke.

Few years back Engineers Australia (IEAust publication) was publishing names
of people whose memberships were cancelled because of fraud charges,
misconduct and severe professional incompetence. Interestingly, many of them
were Fellow or corporate members of IEAust. I wonder how they got there in
the first place.

The shame list has now vanished. This suggests that either there are no
further issues with IEAust member engineers or that they feel scared of
being exposed.

Unfortunately, the rank and file members in any organisation always miss out
on the piece of cake.


"Terry Collins" <terryc@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:3F77C4FD.28AEEAD5@woa.com.au...

Nemo wrote:

...snip.....

'Just waiting for that day when qualified doctors will be challenged by
paramedics, ignorant of specific roles within the medical profession, as
a
parallel.

Thank god for paramedics who know what they are doing and don't make
decisions on the basis of the last "inducement" offered to them by a
drug company. "Inducements" like weekend seminars!

Professional electronics/computer engineering in this country went
downhill/off shore in the 70's.

 

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:18:32 +1000, "Nemo" <guest@unknown.com> wrote:

Plain and simple:

If you are a member with formal qualifications, it is of no use unless it is
a job pre-requisite (in certain branches of engineering, in some public
service jobs and with some corporate second fiddlers). In most cases the
criteria is the eligibility to be a member. If you are not a member it is an
excuse for disqualification. As long as you fund IEAust guys/mates to pay
their bills and their trips/seminar parties through your membership fee, you
will be considered as a professional engineer.

The only real benefit is that you will be eligible for CBA Gold Visa Card
and the Gold Privilege Program for around $300/year (tax deductible).

How about half a percent off a CBA Home Loan variable interest rate?
That more than pays for membership for me (noooo ... I'm not really
just in it for the half percent ;-> )

- Rob

 

[Jeff]

"Rob Judd" <judd@ob-wan.com> wrote in message
news:3F777C0D.3366136E@ob-wan.com...

Poor baby. Perhaps you missed the point of my previous message, so I'll
be blunt. Most of the real work - including design and basic research -
is done by talanted amateurs and technicians with lengthy experience.
They don't get credit, they're not paid well for it and they are always
the first to be fired when the problems are solved. Compare that to your
inability to join the Old Boys' Club of your choice and you look like a
whining prat.

Piss off, and take your parchment with you. Anyone who would _want_ to
join the PS is already beyond help anyhow.

Rob

Well.. whatever... my very first job was as a tech working for a guy with
lengthy experience.... still a screwdriver jockey though, even though he
thought he was it, so I guess it comes back to your definition of real work
doesnt it? I guess your still wondering what all the math is for?. The
australian experience since the removal of industry protection since whitlam
has been a disastrous disgrace, particularly the performance of management
in companies such as AWA. In that light i guess people such as dick smith...
a self taught amateur... as a promoter of whatever electronics talent their
is, has been something of a shining light.

Having said all of that I actually would like to see some of the techs who
have through their experience progressed technically and mathematically be
given the oportunity to become chartered engineers.. its only fair if they
have the skills, and I've certainly met some who were technically competant.
Certainly if they/you are at that level you wouldnt mind opening a few
books/ sitting a few exams and interviews if you had the opportunity of a
better job/paypacket wouldnt you? Picking up a book has always been free..

Under the current IEAust arrangements that is only a pipedream. It still
comes back to their inability to implement a fair and working individual
assessment process. To be fair to IEAust they have made some efforts to
provide study pathways (albeit quite expensive ones) through EEA.
(www.eeaust.com.au) IEAust of course operates from a position of fear. Fear
that the reputation of the profession will diminish and fear that they will
let people in who didnt study as hard as them. I think in the case of
non-accredited degrees it fear of the distruction of their accreditation
process if its shown not to be working. They can overcome this fear if they
wanted to but the accreditation process for non-accredited graduates would
need to be above reproach, something they've not yet figured out how to
do...

As a point of interest, I was talking to a friend of mine who went to a
canadian uni to work for sometime where the university had actually pulled
out of the accreditation process in that country due to the constant
problems of course design. In canada however a second path of accreditation
is available via examination and instead that university now runs exam
preparation classes for those ending their degree who are interested in
membership, and such exams are open to many with varied educational
backgrounds. In a similar light I notice that the uk IEE has a number of
alternative pathways to chartered status that might suit some technicians...
http://www.iee.org/ProfessionalRegistration/Education/alternative.cfm

We dont have any such pathways and I notice plenty of techs coming out of
the woodwork saying what about me.... Looking around the net I notice the
IREE has handed in its royal charter (an absolute bloody asskicking
disgrace) and the replacement ITEE IEAust college has such low membership
levels its bordering on being economically unviable. Laughable. I wonder how
it compared to australian IEEE membership levels?

Jim